2020 and the National Debt

[beautress]

I've heard a little talk around here from time to time about the National Debt with each side blaming the other side for the size of it. I just checked the amount of the debt, and it's going up a million dollars in the time that I was there, and considering that was a few minutes ago. The National Debt as of 12/29/2019 is $23,160,651,000,000.00 as of CST 8:44 pm.

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

How important do you think the National Debt is going to be in the election of 2020? Is that too much money right now? Please add your thoughts below. Voting on this poll ends in 45 days. Thank you.

I selected "unimportant".
We elected a talk show host in 2016 and not for his economics.
Good, real Americans are so fed up we have made winning our nation back and destroying the Left our paramount desires..even if that means setting economics aside for some time.

Thank you for your input, Broke Loser. I supported President Trump for issues that many people do not agree with, and after he rebuilt the Military, that kind of restored my faith in the country that was won by Veterans both in war and peace. After they serve, whether in conflict or not, they seem to have a very good idea of who they are, and that they're glad to have served the country for the most part. I'm sure glad they did, and I thought Trump would bring their low morale up to medium at least, and already, I'm impressed with that one small reason I supported Trump, and that he has held the military men up as someone he is proud of. When they come back from their time served, many of them establish traditional homes, give their children a good reason to get along with others and do their duties to help take the load off their mother. I'm real proud of our military. They're super people for serving us.

 

[beautress]

I'm only guessing Billy. Do you think it might be repaid to the U.S. Treasury, because I haven't a clue how that works.

I've explained this thoroughly on here.

Yes you have, Natural Citizen. Thanks. I was answering a post and am several posts behind. lol. I sure have a different view after reading everyone's posts about thinking finances will be skipped over during silly season (election year).

 

[beautress]

As much as I'd like to stay here, I have asthma demanding my full attention right now, so will be back tomorrow. I want to thank every one here right and left for engaging in a very informative discussion. Wouldn't it be nice if everyone who comes to USMB were as polite as the people on this thread this evening! Kudos everyone.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Jackson asked who we owed the money to, and I wonder if it was just a matter of printing more money to float around, or if debt was actually owned by banks or foreigners, which might make a difference if it is.

To pay for deficit spending the Treasury borrows currency by issuing a bond. A bond is an IOU. It's a piece of paper with numbers printed on it that says loan me a trillion dollars today and I promise that over a ten year period I will pay you back that trillion dollars. Plus interest.

But...Treasury bonds happen to be our national debt. The Treasury then holds a bond auction. And the world's largest banks show up and compete to buy part of our national debt and make a profit on it by earning interest.

Through a shell game called open market operations, the banks get to sell some of those bonds to the Federal Reserve, at a profit. How does the Federal Reserve pay the bonds? The Federal Reserve opens its 'checkbook' and writes bad, bogus, counterfeit checks that should bounce because they're drawn on an account that always has nothing in it. Here the Federal Reserve is committing fraud.

To steal a quote from the Boston Federal Reserve's ''Putting it Simply", they say that ''When you or I write a check, there must be sufficient funds in our account to cover the check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check, there is no bank deposit on which that check is drawn. When the Federal Reserve writes a check, it is creating money.”

Then we pay tax to the IRS who then turns it over to theTreasury so the Treasury can pay the principal plus the interest on those bonds that were purchased from banks by the Federal Reserve with a check that was drawn on an account that had nothing in it.

Of course, the Federal Reserve is not Federal. It has stock holders. There is no federal agency that has stock holders. Now, what is a stock holder? A share of stock represents a share of ownership in a corporation. So, the stock holders are the owners of the corporation. Therefore, the Federal Reserve is a private corporation with owners. For reference, you may check their site. It specifically states that the stock holders receive an annual dividend of not more than 6%. Now, we know that the stock in the Federal Reserve was originally issued to the largest banks in the United States. With mergers and acquisitions through the years, you can't actually trace who owns the stock in the Federal Reserve. That's a very closely guarded secret. The best guess would be that they are those primary dealers. The banks that get to make a profit by selling part of our national debt, those bonds, to the Federal Reserve who buys them with a check that is drawn from an account with nothing in it. Then we pay tax to pay the principal and the interest on those bonds so that the Federal Reserve can pay the banks not more than a 6% dividend. This is purposely complex.

 

[Natural Citizen]

As much as I'd like to stay here, I have asthma demanding my full attention right now, so will be back tomorrow. I want to thank every one here right and left for engaging in a very informative discussion. Wouldn't it be nice if everyone who comes to USMB were as polite as the people on this thread this evening! Kudos everyone.

Alright. Hope you feel better.

 

[Shrimpbox]

My biggest disappointment with trump is that he has not addressed the debt problem but made it worse. For gods sake introduce the penny plan.

 

[william the wie]

China is growing old without getting Rich. China will track with what happened to Japan despite fewer birth restrictions in Japan and greater wealth. China has a bigger crash coming than has been seen by anyone younger than @ 100 years

 

[The Original Tree]

To whom is the bulk of the national debt to be repaid?

Abolish The Federal Reserve.

 

[edthecynic]

My thoughts...We are in a time where there are more tax payers than ever before. If we think it's big now, just wait when there is Medicare for All, Free tuition and what ever freebies the Socialistic left can dream up.

At least we will get something POSITIVE for the debt HERE instead of giving money away to the ultra wealthy to invest overseas.

 

[kyzr]

Jackson asked who we owed the money to, and I wonder if it was just a matter of printing more money to float around, or if debt was actually owned by banks or foreigners, which might make a difference if it is.

To pay for deficit spending the Treasury borrows currency by issuing a bond. A bond is an IOU. It's a piece of paper with numbers printed on it that says loan me a trillion dollars today and I promise that over a ten year period I will pay you back that trillion dollars. Plus interest.

But...Treasury bonds happen to be our national debt. The Treasury then holds a bond auction. And the world's largest banks show up and compete to buy part of our national debt and make a profit on it by earning interest.

Through a shell game called open market operations, the banks get to sell some of those bonds to the Federal Reserve, at a profit. How does the Federal Reserve pay the bonds? The Federal Reserve opens its 'checkbook' and writes bad, bogus, counterfeit checks that should bounce because they're drawn on an account that always has nothing in it. Here the Federal Reserve is committing fraud.

To steal a quote from the Boston Federal Reserve's ''Putting it Simply", they say that ''When you or I write a check, there must be sufficient funds in our account to cover the check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check, there is no bank deposit on which that check is drawn. When the Federal Reserve writes a check, it is creating money.”

Then we pay tax to the IRS who then turns it over to theTreasury so the Treasury can pay the principal plus the interest on those bonds that were purchased from banks by the Federal Reserve with a check that was drawn on an account that had nothing in it.

Of course, the Federal Reserve is not Federal. It has stock holders. There is no federal agency that has stock holders. Now, what is a stock holder? A share of stock represents a share of ownership in a corporation. So, the stock holders are the owners of the corporation. Therefore, the Federal Reserve is a private corporation with owners. For reference, you may check their site. It specifically states that the stock holders receive an annual dividend of not more than 6%. Now, we know that the stock in the Federal Reserve was originally issued to the largest banks in the United States. With mergers and acquisitions through the years, you can't actually trace who owns the stock in the Federal Reserve. That's a very closely guarded secret. The best guess would be that they are those primary dealers. The banks that get to make a profit by selling part of our national debt, those bonds, to the Federal Reserve who buys them with a check that is drawn from an account with nothing in it. Then we pay tax to pay the principal and the interest on those bonds so that the Federal Reserve can pay the banks not more than a 6% dividend. This is purposely complex.

When I was a lot younger the WSJ used to show two numbers that were apparently very important at the time, those being the money supply numbers, "M1" and "M2". In the last 20 or so years I have not seen M1 or M2 mentioned on CNBC or in print. Why were they so important before, and so irrelevant now?

Reading: Measuring Money: Currency, M1, and M2 | Macroeconomics

 

[Mac1958]

With a hyper-Keynesian in the White House, the GOP will continue to avoid talking about the debt, as we see on USMB.

Trump is in his own league, fiscally. Trump's All-You-Can-Eat Fiscal Donut Truck on Steroids. Keynes himself would be shocked.

We'll have to worry about the debt later. And we won't have a choice.
.

 

[kyzr]

My biggest disappointment with trump is that he has not addressed the debt problem but made it worse. For gods sake introduce the penny plan.

It looks like BOTH parties have a secret pact to sink entitlements. Medicare will be bankrupt in 2026 unless "fixed" soon.
https://www.fool.com/retirement/general/2016/03/27/7-ways-to-fix-medicare.aspx
https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/369151-fix-what-weve-got-and-make-medicare-right-this-year
https://www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/how-to-save-and-fix-medicare
https://www.aarp.org/content/dam/aarp/health/medicare-and-medicaid/2012-05/The-Future-Of-Medicare.pdf

Social Security will be insolvent, paying only 70% of benefits, in 2037.
https://www.fool.com/retirement/2018/05/21/how-warren-buffett-thinks-we-should-fix-social-sec.aspx
https://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/planning-to-retire/2014/11/14/5-potential-social-security-fixes
https://www.aarp.org/work/social-security/info-05-2012/future-of-social-security-proposals.html

We need more than the "penny plan", we need entitlement reform.
Maybe in Trump's 2nd term?

 

[sparky]

Jackson asked who we owed the money to, and I wonder if it was just a matter of printing more money to float around, or if debt was actually owned by banks or foreigners, which might make a difference if it is.

To pay for deficit spending the Treasury borrows currency by issuing a bond. A bond is an IOU. It's a piece of paper with numbers printed on it that says loan me a trillion dollars today and I promise that over a ten year period I will pay you back that trillion dollars. Plus interest.

But...Treasury bonds happen to be our national debt. The Treasury then holds a bond auction. And the world's largest banks show up and compete to buy part of our national debt and make a profit on it by earning interest.

Through a shell game called open market operations, the banks get to sell some of those bonds to the Federal Reserve, at a profit. How does the Federal Reserve pay the bonds? The Federal Reserve opens its 'checkbook' and writes bad, bogus, counterfeit checks that should bounce because they're drawn on an account that always has nothing in it. Here the Federal Reserve is committing fraud.

To steal a quote from the Boston Federal Reserve's ''Putting it Simply", they say that ''When you or I write a check, there must be sufficient funds in our account to cover the check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check, there is no bank deposit on which that check is drawn. When the Federal Reserve writes a check, it is creating money.”

Then we pay tax to the IRS who then turns it over to theTreasury so the Treasury can pay the principal plus the interest on those bonds that were purchased from banks by the Federal Reserve with a check that was drawn on an account that had nothing in it.

Of course, the Federal Reserve is not Federal. It has stock holders. There is no federal agency that has stock holders. Now, what is a stock holder? A share of stock represents a share of ownership in a corporation. So, the stock holders are the owners of the corporation. Therefore, the Federal Reserve is a private corporation with owners. For reference, you may check their site. It specifically states that the stock holders receive an annual dividend of not more than 6%. Now, we know that the stock in the Federal Reserve was originally issued to the largest banks in the United States. With mergers and acquisitions through the years, you can't actually trace who owns the stock in the Federal Reserve. That's a very closely guarded secret. The best guess would be that they are those primary dealers. The banks that get to make a profit by selling part of our national debt, those bonds, to the Federal Reserve who buys them with a check that is drawn from an account with nothing in it. Then we pay tax to pay the principal and the interest on those bonds so that the Federal Reserve can pay the banks not more than a 6% dividend. This is purposely complex.

Thx for keeping it simple this time 'round NC , it's all some huge sword of damocles over my head ,while we toast each other about a great economy....

So this beckons the whole QE4 deal, seem to be equally ignored that the Fed is taking T Bonds, (which are negative rate?) to prop up bank liquidity

Along with Trump yammering about a weak dollar

So i suspect the '20 contestants will downplay it all, fiscal bullsh*t being easy to do with the great unwashed...yours truly no exception.... Maybe the better Q is who gets a chair when the music stops? And who will they blame???


Anecdotally, i had a lotta time to grow an ass the shape of my seat after the '08 crash, went from a mansion to a slum spark almost overnight....




~S~

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Nobody gives a fuck. Both sides will just keep blaming the other side and we will keep adding a trillion dollars a year...until we have the next recession and we start adding 3 trillion a year.

You really think our forum good guys who like the idea of balancing the budget would go with your idea that nobody cares? hmmmmm Or that anyone would think it's good if we owe all that money to a foreign country who would like to own the United States of America?

Enquiring minds would like to know.

There are about 5 of us on this forum that care about the debt and spending. Everyone else only care when the wrong person is sitting in the White House

 

[sparky]

QE4 isn't even 5th page news.....which i view as a major symptom of debtopia

The Fed was created by a banking consortium who validated their existence on the excuse of public 'runs on banks'

FF a century and, now the Fed is committing a 'run on the treasury'

Maybe Ron Paul was right?

~S~

 

[LoneLaugher]

Well. If history is an indicator, those who are concerned with the national debt ought to vote for Democrats. It's a no brainier.

 

[sparky]

It's a no brainier.

voters aren't required to have brains LL

~S~

 

[YoursTruly]

I've heard a little talk around here from time to time about the National Debt with each side blaming the other side for the size of it. I just checked the amount of the debt, and it's going up a million dollars in the time that I was there, and considering that was a few minutes ago. The National Debt as of 12/29/2019 is $23,160,651,000,000.00 as of CST 8:44 pm.

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

How important do you think the National Debt is going to be in the election of 2020? Is that too much money right now? Please add your thoughts below. Voting on this poll ends in 45 days. Thank you.

In order for the National Debt to become important, the American people are gonna have to elect conservatives, instead of republicans. When it comes to spending, republicans are just democrats with an R label.
Conservatism is the new libertarianism. Libertarians are deemed "loony" by the right and the left. The RNC and the DNC have rules against electing conservatives.

Thomas Massie & Justin Amash, IMO are the only true conservatives left in DC. Rand Paul used to be. His voting record is still pretty conservative.

This one only got like 21 NO votes. Rand was one of them.

HR 1865 - Further Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2020 - National Key Vote

 

[YoursTruly]

Well. If history is an indicator, those who are concerned with the national debt ought to vote for Democrats. It's a no brainier.

Democrats? It was Pelosi and Trump (who isn't a conservative) eliminated the debt ceiling for 2 years.

 

[YoursTruly]

IINM, this is the bill that eliminated the debt ceiling for 2 years.

HR 3877 - Bipartisan Budget Act of 2019 - National Key Vote
67 to 28