2020 and the National Debt

[g5000]

To whom is the bulk of the national debt to be repaid?

A large portion of the debt is owed to China. That is not a bad thing. They cannot afford to see the US destroyed because we owe them so much money.

If the US Debt bubble sinks the US dollar, and the Yuan becomes the global currency, how much would that be worth to China?

China is also in a debt bubble.

 

[ElmerMudd]

To whom is the bulk of the national debt to be repaid?

A large portion of the debt is owed to China. That is not a bad thing. They cannot afford to see the US destroyed because we owe them so much money.

If the US Debt bubble sinks the US dollar, and the Yuan becomes the global currency, how much would that be worth to China?

If that did happen, China would lose a lot of money on the US debt. Plus, many of the Chinese billionaires are heavily invested in the US. One benefit of global markets is countries have vested interests in other countries doing well.
When China becomes the largest consuming market place in the world it will provide great opportunity for US companies. Isolationism is short sighted.

 

[beautress]

Well. If history is an indicator, those who are concerned with the national debt ought to vote for Democrats. It's a no brainier.

I cannot join a party whose propaganda includes abortion and taking dangerous hormone pills that cause cancer to prevent pregnancy. And that's my point of view, whether or not they've improved "the pill." And no, I do not judge those who do because that's God's job, not mine. And that's what I think.

 

[beautress]

My biggest disappointment with trump is that he has not addressed the debt problem but made it worse. For gods sake introduce the penny plan.

If the employment rate continues to rise, the debt will take care of itself, unless the Congress gets reckless with poison pill environmental shams. It's fine if they clean up the trash out in the areas of the ocean that look ugly with floating plastics and worse, they break down, get swallowed by fish and kills them because fish have a different digestive system than mammals. That impacts shoreline fisherman who depends on fish for supper.

 

[ElmerMudd]

Well. If history is an indicator, those who are concerned with the national debt ought to vote for Democrats. It's a no brainier.

I cannot join a party whose propaganda includes abortion and taking dangerous hormone pills that cause cancer to prevent pregnancy. And that's my point of view, whether or not they've improved "the pill." And no, I do not judge those who do because that's God's job, not mine. And that's what I think.

If you are against abortion, you want to create a situation where the fewest number of abortions happen. Outlawing abortion could end up with an increase in the number of abortions.
Abortions have been decreasing at the same level and higher in states that do not have restrictive abortion laws.
I hope you put as much emphasis on helping children in need as you do in outlawing abortions. If you truly love children you do not abandon them once they are born.

My biggest disappointment with trump is that he has not addressed the debt problem but made it worse. For gods sake introduce the penny plan.

If the employment rate continues to rise, the debt will take care of itself, unless the Congress gets reckless with poison pill environmental shams. It's fine if they clean up the trash out in the areas of the ocean that look ugly with floating plastics and worse, they break down, get swallowed by fish and kills them because fish have a different digestive system than mammals. That impacts shoreline fisherman who depends on fish for supper.

Environmental shams? If you love babies, I hope you want them to live in an environment that will not make them sick or worse.
The unemployment is low and the debt is exploding. It is not because of monies being spent on improving the environment. Trump's version of voodoo economics. He decreased the taxes and increased overall spending.

 

[g5000]

Well. If history is an indicator, those who are concerned with the national debt ought to vote for Democrats. It's a no brainier.

Actually, it seems like a Republican Congress with a Democratic President was the last time a serious attack on the debt was achieved.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Well. If history is an indicator, those who are concerned with the national debt ought to vote for Democrats. It's a no brainier.

I cannot join a party whose propaganda includes abortion and taking dangerous hormone pills that cause cancer to prevent pregnancy. And that's my point of view, whether or not they've improved "the pill." And no, I do not judge those who do because that's God's job, not mine. And that's what I think.

Weird reply. Are you a weirdo?

 

[beautress]

Well. If history is an indicator, those who are concerned with the national debt ought to vote for Democrats. It's a no brainier.

I cannot join a party whose propaganda includes abortion and taking dangerous hormone pills that cause cancer to prevent pregnancy. And that's my point of view, whether or not they've improved "the pill." And no, I do not judge those who do because that's God's job, not mine. And that's what I think.

Weird reply. Are you a weirdo?

No. I believe in the bible and what it says. I'm conventional to the point of boredom to most people. But I am true to my upbringing. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Well. If history is an indicator, those who are concerned with the national debt ought to vote for Democrats. It's a no brainier.

I cannot join a party whose propaganda includes abortion and taking dangerous hormone pills that cause cancer to prevent pregnancy. And that's my point of view, whether or not they've improved "the pill." And no, I do not judge those who do because that's God's job, not mine. And that's what I think.

Weird reply. Are you a weirdo?

No. I believe in the bible and what it says. I'm conventional to the point of boredom to most people. But I am true to my upbringing. Nothing more, nothing less.

If I ask you if you would like a cup ocoffee, will you reply with your thoughts on abortion or holy Communion?

Be religious. Be pious. But there is no need to be weird. Give it a rest.

 

[ElmerMudd]

Well. If history is an indicator, those who are concerned with the national debt ought to vote for Democrats. It's a no brainier.

I cannot join a party whose propaganda includes abortion and taking dangerous hormone pills that cause cancer to prevent pregnancy. And that's my point of view, whether or not they've improved "the pill." And no, I do not judge those who do because that's God's job, not mine. And that's what I think.

Weird reply. Are you a weirdo?

No. I believe in the bible and what it says. I'm conventional to the point of boredom to most people. But I am true to my upbringing. Nothing more, nothing less.

Jesus did not rely on a book for his involvement in the world. Jesus went out and helped those in need. He did not condemn them.

 

[beautress]

I've heard a little talk around here from time to time about the National Debt with each side blaming the other side for the size of it. I just checked the amount of the debt, and it's going up a million dollars in the time that I was there, and considering that was a few minutes ago. The National Debt as of 12/29/2019 is $23,160,651,000,000.00 as of CST 8:44 pm.

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

How important do you think the National Debt is going to be in the election of 2020? Is that too much money right now? Please add your thoughts below. Voting on this poll ends in 45 days. Thank you.

You would have to look at the last time the budget was balanced to find how a compromise works. There will never be another compromise while Trump is potus, and McConnell said in 2017 he wasn't doing entitlement reform while Trump was potus.

Would Biden support a compromise? Probably. Could the gop do that even if Trump and McConnell were defeated? I dunno. At one time McConnell would have compromised. I'm not sure anymore.

I agree. I think from the information I am hearing there are going to be some unfortunate consequences for people in the government who engaged in criminal activities. But from what I've seen, when jail terms expire or people are pardoned, they dumb down the requirements. For example, when I grew up, everybody knew that people who went to jail for big crimes would never vote again. That has been reversed in the last 20 years to restore former criminals to voting privileges after they get out of jail, and possibly, they can vote while in prison. That just feels wrong because it's not clear to me that people whose only living was made from stealing money and goods from other people may at any time experience recidivism and/or have no better judgment than when they went in unless rehabilitation is better than it was 50 years ago.

 

[bendog]

Jackson asked who we owed the money to, and I wonder if it was just a matter of printing more money to float around, or if debt was actually owned by banks or foreigners, which might make a difference if it is.

To pay for deficit spending the Treasury borrows currency by issuing a bond. A bond is an IOU. It's a piece of paper with numbers printed on it that says loan me a trillion dollars today and I promise that over a ten year period I will pay you back that trillion dollars. Plus interest.

But...Treasury bonds happen to be our national debt. The Treasury then holds a bond auction. And the world's largest banks show up and compete to buy part of our national debt and make a profit on it by earning interest.

Through a shell game called open market operations, the banks get to sell some of those bonds to the Federal Reserve, at a profit. How does the Federal Reserve pay the bonds? The Federal Reserve opens its 'checkbook' and writes bad, bogus, counterfeit checks that should bounce because they're drawn on an account that always has nothing in it. Here the Federal Reserve is committing fraud.

To steal a quote from the Boston Federal Reserve's ''Putting it Simply", they say that ''When you or I write a check, there must be sufficient funds in our account to cover the check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check, there is no bank deposit on which that check is drawn. When the Federal Reserve writes a check, it is creating money.”

Then we pay tax to the IRS who then turns it over to theTreasury so the Treasury can pay the principal plus the interest on those bonds that were purchased from banks by the Federal Reserve with a check that was drawn on an account that had nothing in it.

Of course, the Federal Reserve is not Federal. It has stock holders. There is no federal agency that has stock holders. Now, what is a stock holder? A share of stock represents a share of ownership in a corporation. So, the stock holders are the owners of the corporation. Therefore, the Federal Reserve is a private corporation with owners. For reference, you may check their site. It specifically states that the stock holders receive an annual dividend of not more than 6%. Now, we know that the stock in the Federal Reserve was originally issued to the largest banks in the United States. With mergers and acquisitions through the years, you can't actually trace who owns the stock in the Federal Reserve. That's a very closely guarded secret. The best guess would be that they are those primary dealers. The banks that get to make a profit by selling part of our national debt, those bonds, to the Federal Reserve who buys them with a check that is drawn from an account with nothing in it. Then we pay tax to pay the principal and the interest on those bonds so that the Federal Reserve can pay the banks not more than a 6% dividend. This is purposely complex.

You left out some very important facts which I invariably see people who hate the Fed make, which tells me you are all listening to the same manufacturer of bullshit.

First, the money which the Fed created to buy Treasury bonds is destroyed when the Treasury pays back the money for those bonds. So that is zeroed out. It is quite deliberate that this fact is never mentioned by End the Fed propagandists, only the money creation part is.

Second, the interest payments the Fed receives on the bonds is returned to the Treasury. So that, too, is zeroed out.

Uh-huh, that's great except for the fact that the debt is continuously rolled over and increased because the Federal Government needs to borrow in order to cover not only it's ever increasing operating deficit but also to cover debt service costs for outstanding debt, so the reality is that there is no "zeroing out" net effect.

And while yes the Federal Reserve does indeed rebate any interest earned on Treasury debt back to the Treasury, everybody else that buys those bonds and earns interest on them DOESN'T so it's not "zeroed" and it ends up as net increase in the money supply requiring the Fed to intensify OMO and other money supply manipulation efforts to stabilize the value of the currency.

Our currency is based on debt a fact that is never mentioned by Federal Reserve Fiat Currency Apologists.

The discussion was about what the Fed does and what happens to the money it creates and destroys, and the interest it receives and gives back.

My "zero out" statements, in that context, are one hundred percent accurate.

... and as I explained completely irrelevant to what really happens with respect to the relationship of the modern system of public debt monetization and the money supply.

There is no net "zero out", there is only the age old practice of currency debasement to finance public expenditures without the political risk of raising taxes dressed up in a new set of clothes.

On the bright side; we don't have to go through all the bother of replacing silver with base metals in our currency like the Imperial Romans did.

Fox you are clueless as to zeroing out. Your post is proof. The Fed's actions cannot "debase currency." There are no added dollars.

There are other possible dangers however.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I've heard a little talk around here from time to time about the National Debt with each side blaming the other side for the size of it. I just checked the amount of the debt, and it's going up a million dollars in the time that I was there, and considering that was a few minutes ago. The National Debt as of 12/29/2019 is $23,160,651,000,000.00 as of CST 8:44 pm.

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

How important do you think the National Debt is going to be in the election of 2020? Is that too much money right now? Please add your thoughts below. Voting on this poll ends in 45 days. Thank you.

You would have to look at the last time the budget was balanced to find how a compromise works. There will never be another compromise while Trump is potus, and McConnell said in 2017 he wasn't doing entitlement reform while Trump was potus.

Would Biden support a compromise? Probably. Could the gop do that even if Trump and McConnell were defeated? I dunno. At one time McConnell would have compromised. I'm not sure anymore.

I agree. I think from the information I am hearing there are going to be some unfortunate consequences for people in the government who engaged in criminal activities. But from what I've seen, when jail terms expire or people are pardoned, they dumb down the requirements. For example, when I grew up, everybody knew that people who went to jail for big crimes would never vote again. That has been reversed in the last 20 years to restore former criminals to voting privileges after they get out of jail, and possibly, they can vote while in prison. That just feels wrong because it's not clear to me that people whose only living was made from stealing money and goods from other people may at any time experience recidivism and/or have no better judgment than when they went in unless rehabilitation is better than it was 50 years ago.

Damn. That's some crazy shit right there. May I suggest that you read the teachings of Christ?

 

[bendog]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I supported Rubio in 16, and he's capable of compromise, and he's not a rino in any definition, unless subservience to all things Trump is necessary for republicans. So's Romney, Sasse, Gardner, Portman, Collins, Lankford, Toomey, Scott, and Alexander. Graham wasn't always insane, and I didn't think Ron Johnson was at one time.

There are still adults in the gop. But so long as Trump is potus, compromise will not be possible because he's promised his base he will not compromise, and McConnell has taken bipartisan entitlement reform off the table.

 

[g5000]

If re-elected, Trump will shatter Obama's debt record wide open.

Book it.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I supported Rubio in 16, and he's capable of compromise, and he's not a rino in any definition, unless subservience to all things Trump is necessary for republicans. So's Romney, Sasse, Gardner, Portman, Collins, Lankford, Toomey, Scott, and Alexander. Graham wasn't always insane, and I didn't think Ron Johnson was at one time.

There are still adults in the gop. But so long as Trump is potus, compromise will not be possible because he's promised his base he will not compromise, and McConnell has taken bipartisan entitlement reform off the table.

Rubio has sold out. He is a man of weak character.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Fox you are clueless as to zeroing out. Your post is proof. The Fed's actions cannot "debase currency." There are no added dollars.

There are other possible dangers however.

When money is created out of thin air its value is distorted. Ultimately, the people who have saved get robbed. Meaning that if the dollar is devalued by 10%, they're being robbed at 10%.

The dollar was debased a long time ago. 1971, to be exact. Used to be the dollar was backed by a store of value. Gold and silver. Not any more. Now it's backed by an IOU. Al theylre really doing is trading IOUs back and forth. Though we haven't really touched on fractional reserve lending here.

The entire economic system is sub-prime. They keep talking about artificially lowering interest rates but the only way to do that is to create more money out of thin air. Inflation, inflation, inflation.

 

[Natural Citizen]

One thing is absolutely certain. We're witnessing the very last days of the Fed. There's no doubt about it. Never before in history has a fiat system managed to last this long. It's going on 50 years. And as I said previously, The Fed is showing that it's losing the ability to control the cost of currency now. It's scrambling. It's been caught off-guard a lot lately. We're getting closer now. The market itself will naturally decide the outcome.

As it is, Global debt has topped $188,000,000,000,000, officially making it the biggest debt bubble the world has ever seen. And it's leaking all over the place. When it bursts it won't only affect the poor, working class and senior citizens this time around. It will affect everyone.

 

[SAYIT]

To whom is the bulk of the national debt to be repaid?

Two thirds to domestic lenders and one third to foreigners who currently earn 1/3 of the $400 billion/yr we pay in interest.

My thoughts...We are in a time where there are more tax payers than ever before. If we think it's big now, just wait when there is Medicare for All, Free tuition and what ever freebies the Socialistic left can dream up.

Wait ... are you saying bigger taxes & spending and more gov't aren't the best way to solve America's problems?

Then why are all the Dem 2020 hopefuls running on them?

 

[sparky]

Never before in history has a fiat system managed to last this long. It's going on 50 years

The Rise And Fall Of Fiat Currencies - by DinarDirham

d*mn!!!!

~S~