$3 trillion, unnecessary war...puts everything into context

[ElephantMcDonk]

This thread is only for those of you that are decent at math. Everyone else please ignore...
The Iraq War cost us $3 trillion, an unnecessary war...puts everything into context.

Don't take into account all of the other costs of that War, just note that Hans Blix and the UN Council were certain that there were no WMDs there and we went to War anyway, only to discover, what do you know, they were right.

In the meantime, it's 2010 and both sides of the aisle are worried about a few billion here, a few billion there. How about our first step be commit as a nation to no longer dictate terms to the rest of the world. If a country invades another or attacks another and we want to come to the rescue, fine, I'm not a dove. We can help. But our military is bigger than the next 25 combined. That's silly. Our special forces are fantastic. We don't need a gigantic military or to start unnecessary wars, put our soldiers in harms way and make us bankrupt. We're isolated by two oceans. Nobody's going to attack us by land or sea. A threat like what happened in 2001 or those types of threats should be dealt with directly and with pinpoint special force, not 100s of 1000s of soldiers.

We used to have a reputation as the leader of the free world. The last regime was able to fully change that to an immature, big bully that wants to boss everyone around. That's hard to undo once it's done.

But, my concern here is the cost. Add up all of the things people complain about or Congress is fighting over. They're drops in the bucket to $3 trillion. The only exceptions are Medicare and Social Security, which are the only two entitlements that really need to be addressed to fix the deficit problem.

Cut costs by extending age for Social Security and Medicare and cut military spending.
Increase taxes on wealthy and corporations when time is right. Done. Budget, balanced. Everything else is smoke and mirrors.

Complaints about fiscal responsibility in other areas that win political points is absurd to me. The Republicans and Democrats have both been irresponsible for a long time, but they don't add up to much.

Earmarks, Stimulus, Healthcare, Medicaid, Unemployment Benefits, TARP, Pell Grants, Bailouts...

...none of it adds up to a hill of beans compared to Military Spending, Social Security, Medicare, and big tax cuts for millionaires.

First step, stop going into dumb wars. No one wants to cut military spending. It's totally ridiculous. That's a huge drain. I don't know why people don't want to admit it. Sure we love and appreciate our soldiers sacrifice and they deserve the best from us. Yes, we want the best military in the world with the best technology and tactics. Yes, we want to be able to stop dictators and invaders and those that do us harm, but we should be able to do it for about 1/2 the money on a yearly basis. I'm afraid the politicians come from states and districts that make money off of war-making or what's sometimes called the Military Industrial Complex. And us Americans are so proud of our soldiers and having a strong military that we become a land of confusion.

Any thoughts? I'm pretty sure I'm not crazy...

 

[kyzr]

1. Need a link to prove your $3T cost.
2. Need a link to prove that the "no action" option led to zero cost. If Saddam and his larvae were alive and in-charge of Iran what would the containment costs be? Would they have started WW3?
3. Technically the war was fast & cheap. The major costs were for the nation-building. I'd have let the Shiites & Sunnis slaughter each other in a long civil war instead of putting our military in the middle of that mess.
4. Totally agree that SS & Medicare costs dwarf everything. IMHO we need to remove the SS tax cap, that saves SS, then we need to kick-off anyone who did not pay into Medicare, send them back to their country of origin, or bill their country of origin for their medical costs.

 

[kiwiman127]

I think the OP of this thread is referring to a study done in 2008 as linked below:
The three trillion dollar war | Joseph Stiglitz and Linda Bilmes - Times Online
What the authors of this piece calculated was not only the cost of the wars at the present total but also the future costs including future troop presence, equipment replacement and the cost of medical and mental care and therapy for the troops as examples.

 

[kyzr]

I think the OP of this thread is referring to a study done in 2008 as linked below:
The three trillion dollar war | Joseph Stiglitz and Linda Bilmes - Times Online
What the authors of this piece calculated was not only the cost of the wars at the present total but also the future costs including future troop presence, equipment replacement and the cost of medical and mental care and therapy for the troops as examples.

It still doesn't address the "no action" costs and what-if Saddam and his larvae started WW3. Its a hypothetical study based on innumerable assumptions. For example, what-if the Bush tax cut never happened??

 

[Trajan]

This thread is only for those of you that are decent at math. Everyone else please ignore...

damn, am I glad its all in context for me now !!!!!

Any thoughts? I'm pretty sure I'm not crazy...

you have not convinced me....work harder..

 

[kiwiman127]

I think the OP of this thread is referring to a study done in 2008 as linked below:
The three trillion dollar war | Joseph Stiglitz and Linda Bilmes - Times Online
What the authors of this piece calculated was not only the cost of the wars at the present total but also the future costs including future troop presence, equipment replacement and the cost of medical and mental care and therapy for the troops as examples.

It still doesn't address the "no action" costs and what-if Saddam and his larvae started WW3. Its a hypothetical study based on innumerable assumptions. For example, what-if the Bush tax cut never happened??

The authors, who are worldwide highly regarded economists actaully wrote a book on the subject. Actually, they wrote a co-op piece where it is stated, based on accumulated facts, that they think they have underestimated. Here's a link:
The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond

Also your claim the Iraq if Iraq would started WWIII is really a reach. They couldn't of won a war with the Swiss! Iraq was bluffing the whole time because they were so weak.

 

[ElephantMcDonk]

You name any expenditure that the government has outside of Social Security and Medicare and you compare that cost to the Iraq War and you're talking about peanuts. There's almost no justification to whine about the small things that add up to nothing in the big picture. That's my point. Defense Spending, Social Security, Medicare are the primary expenditures. They comprise 65-70% of the budget most years. Those 3 areas are where the cuts have to come from. That and raise taxes on the wealthy and corporations back to the levels under Clinton once the economy is in better shape. Those are the 4 areas that need to be addressed.

Everything else is just whining to score political points or because the cost of the program doesn't directly benefit you as an individual or politician. The cost of all of these other little programs doesn't add up to squat. It's just politics.

At some point in the next 10 years I believe the federal govt will get together and address the Social Security and Medicare issue.

So, my concern is the military. Almost no one outside of Ron Paul or Dennis Kucinich will acknowledge that we need to make huge cuts in military spending and stop starting unnecessary wars. It's like a 3rd rail. It's really aggravating because the military is the biggest drain on our economic well being as a country. No one will admit it. I know some of the reasons why, but it has to change in my opinion. I appreciate the sacrifice our military makes for us. We all do. They deserve to be well taken care of and equipped as well as possible. The problem is we have a military larger than the next 25 biggest military's combined. That's just silly. Why do we need that? We shouldn't be in the line of nation building. Dealing with small groups of bad guys is a special forces, intelligence thing. It's not a 100s of 1000s of soldiers thing. The Iraq War cost $3,000,000,000,000. That's $10,000 for every man, woman, and child in America that we owe. So, family of 4, you owe $40,000 because the last administration decided we had to go to War with Iraq. They hadn't done anything to be alarmed about since the first Gulf War. In our history, we never started a War because we felt like it. That's part of what made us special and to many the greatest country in the world. We can't claim that part of ourselves anymore.