4 Inconvenient Facts The Right Ignores

[Plasmaball]

So, republicans are double-talking, double-dealing dirtballs. What else is new?

What have progressive democrats done for me, that I ever wanted in the first place, since Grover Cleveland?

i'm not a progressive. i am a liberal.

but that has nothing to do with you ignoring the facts in the o/p.

i have no issue with republicans. i can't abide people who abhor fact-based reality.

you're welcome.

That's interesting. You're the one fantasizing about being an attorney. But yet you slam us for 'ignoring fact based reality'? Okay then...

I abhor those who make up facts and contend them as reality. I abhor liars and lying. Guess what you are, miss?

you abhor working.

 

[Stephanie]

Every one of those are outright lies or misleading

no one had a chance to see common core before it was shoved off us the same as Obamacare was. so the lie they were for it before they weren't it..LIE LIE LIE
EVEN the states didn't a chance to see and now that they have and is shocked over it, they are OPTING out of it...it's just indoctrination of your children to make good little zombies who should be guilty for everything they have

the Nra is for some form of gun control, they would like to see gun safety taught...so that one is misleading

this disgusting outright LIE pisses me OFF to know end( Conservatives have always been the voting bloc to stop civil rights.)

Conservative were up there with everyone to end slavery, they marched right along with Martin luther king for voting rights for black and helped to change narrow views of those who still had them, everyone should be damn pissed and CONTACT those pukes at Salon and let them no

and here's the BIG LIE OF THE CENTURY...The religious right started because of slavery...If I recall it was a lot religious people with many other who hid out slaves as they traveled the underground railway...

this whole thing is some of ugliest lies, twisting, misleading piece OF SHIT I run across

folks SHUN that site and DONT give any support to THAT HATE SITE SALON by clicking on any of their links...this is the lying hateful crap they push

 

[blackhawk]

Talking points from a partisan source are not facts and never will be.

Will you repeat that the next time a brethren/sister from the right uses "talking points from a partisan source"? It happens very, very frequently.

I have partisan sources are not credible no matter if they come from the right or the left.

 

[blackhawk]

Talking points from a partisan source are not facts and never will be.

And ad hominems are not valid rebuttals and never will be.

They are when your responding to partisan talking points posted by a hyper partisan citing a partisan source same applies when the right does it.

 

[thereisnospoon]

4 inconvenient facts conservatives conveniently ignore

1. The religious right started because of segregation, not abortion.

As Randall Balmer, a Darthmouth professor writing in Politico, explained in a recent article, the organized religious right started as a movement to protect white-only schools from federally mandated desegregation. As Balmer explains, there were many other attempts to rally evangelical Christians to become a conservative movement to support Republicans—“pornography, prayer in schools, the proposed Equal Rights Amendment to the Constitution, even abortion”—but none took. Under the guidance of Jerry Falwell, however, it was discovered that evangelical leaders would rally to keep black students out of private schools set up specifically so white kids didn’t have to go to desegregated public schools. Even though it was actually the Nixon administration that kickstarted the process of the IRS stripping tax-exempt status from “whites only” school, Falwell and his buddies blamed Jimmy Carter and used the issue to start rallying support for Ronald Reagan’s challenge. It was only after the evangelical right was organized that they started expanding into other issues, like abortion.

2. NRA used to support gun control.

The NRA is a gun industry lobby that likes to present itself as a “rights” group. With that level of deceit, no wonder many people, especially on the right, assume that the group has always existed to lobby against any restriction on access to firearms, or that gun control is a relatively new phenomenon only invented by pansy liberals in the past few decades. In reality, the government has been controlling access to guns for a long, long time. While there have been limits on gun ownership throughout the country’s history—often for sexist and racist reasons, such as bans on black people owning guns—the first modern federal gun control law passed in 1934, to stop the proliferation of automatic sub-machine guns that were popular with organized criminals. Prior to that, many states passed laws regulating guns, laws conservatives would reject today, such as waiting periods and requiring gun sellers to share information with police. The NRA actually helped write these laws.

And why not? The NRA was started as a marksman and sporting club, so there was no real reason to oppose gun control laws, until recent decades when it morphed into a lobby to protect the profits of gun manufacturers. Even as late as 1963, the NRA supported gun control laws. It was only as the culture wars began to build and the conservative movement developed that the NRA turned into the organization it is now, feeding paranoia and faux-patriotism to gullible conservatives in order to convince them to buy more guns.

3. Conservatives have always been the voting bloc to stop civil rights.

A lot of pundits and other charlatans like to deflect discussion of modern racism by claiming that Democrats were the ones who tried to stop the Civil Rights Act and Republicans were the ones who tried to pass it. Considering that it was a liberal Democrat—Lyndon B. Johnson—who signed the CRA, it’s clear that it was much more complicated than that. Yes, it’s true that some Democrats opposed the CRA and plenty of Republicans supported it. But the party lines were not drawn the same back then. Back then, both parties had a mix of liberals and conservatives, and since then, the parties have realigned, with all the conservatives—who voted against the CRA—stampeding to the Republican party and all the liberals—who voted for the CRA—running to the Democrats.

As Harry Enten, writing for the Guardian, notes, party was a poor predictor of a politician’s vote for the CRA in 1964. A far better predictor was state of origin. In the House, 90 percent of politicians from former Union states voted for it and only 8 percent of politicians from the South did. In the Senate, 92 percent of lawmakers from the Union states voted for the CRA, but only 5 percent—1 out of 22—of Southern senators did so. In other words, the votes against it came primarily from what we now consider the immovable “red” states—a permanent bloc of Republicans. And it was anger over the CRA that switched those previously Democratic states to Republican voters. The only states that voted for Barry Goldwater in 1964, besides Arizona,were Southern states.

Indeed, the best way to understand what happened in 1964 is that the CRA kicked off a process where the Republicans started to gather up all the conservative voters and Democrats expelled the racist vote but picked up all the liberals. Focusing on race instead of ideological leaning is a fundamentally dishonest tactic, when any honest assessment of the situation shows that the real divide was between conservatives and liberals, which remains the divide that governs our country today, even as the parties have rebranded themselves.

4. They were for Common Core before they were against it.

The most recent and possibly silliest about-face of the modern conservative movement has to be the turnaround on Common Core, a program initiated by the National Governors Association to standardize and elevate educational standards across the country. Originally, conservatives were indifferent to outright supportive of the program—many Republican governors considered themselves fans—and pretty much all the criticism came from people on the left, who were concerned that it would be used as cover for attacks on teacher’s unions and would favor “teach the test”-style memorization over actual education.

Then President Obama endorsed it in 2012. Immediately, the right decided that Common Core was a sinister conspiracy to shove liberal ideology down children’s throats (never mind that many educational experts on the left are against it). Liberals make measured criticisms of Common Core, saying it might squelch imagination and writing skills. Conservatives, on the other hand, have taken to accusing the Obama administration of using Common Core to steal children away and teach them to have sex and get divorced so they’ll vote for Democrats. A calm, rational discussion of the program is basically impossible, because the entire debate has been taken over by right-wing nuts who have forgotten that, a mere two years ago, they were cool with a program they now compare to Nazi indoctrination.

4 inconvenient facts conservatives conveniently ignore - Salon.com

You libs are amusing.
You cannot come up with your own ideas so you dredge up opinion pieces from liberal blogs and present them as legitimate news.
This isn't even a poor effort on your part.
Dismissed.

 

[thereisnospoon]

So, republicans are double-talking, double-dealing dirtballs. What else is new?

What have progressive democrats done for me, that I ever wanted in the first place, since Grover Cleveland?

i'm not a progressive. i am a liberal.

but that has nothing to do with you ignoring the facts in the o/p.

i have no issue with republicans. i can't abide people who abhor fact-based reality.

you're welcome.

Libs progressives, socialists. Who cares. You all want the same things. Nanny state government. High taxes. Redistribution of wealth. Political correctness. Intolerance/eliminationsilencing of all non liberal viewpoints. Equality of outcome...Etc.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Jillian posting more crap. Where are the links for these?

1)the religious right was for segregation? WTF???? Where do you people come up with this shit?
2)Again a link? There was the 1934 law banning automatic weapons....but that's it...

3)so was Al Gore Sr a conservative? The republican party defended civil rights until this day, but lets use your liberal souther strategy in the late 60s. Before that time, name the last democrat more conservative than the republican?

It's Salon. What did you expect?

i know... you're allergic to facts. but keep on spewing

life in the bubble must suck.

Salon and facts are mutually exclusive.
How you could claim sites like salon are sources of facts when all posts on the site are exclusively opinion pieces, is a friggin mystery.

 

[Billo_Really]

They are when your responding to partisan talking points posted by a hyper partisan citing a partisan source same applies when the right does it.

Your personal opinion of a particular website, has nothing to do with the truth or falsehood of a claim, made at said website.

 

[sameech]

4 inconvenient facts conservatives conveniently ignore

1. The religious right started because of segregation, not abortion.

As Randall Balmer, a Darthmouth professor writing in Politico, explained in a recent article, the organized religious right started as a movement to protect white-only schools from federally mandated desegregation. ....

Balmer and salon are idiots. The modern religious right movement grew out of school prayer and Roe v. Wade, but there have been conservative religious movements in politics throughout US history.

2. NRA used to support gun control.

Well, yes this is true, but if you point this out in a gun thread you get called a fag and they neg rep you because they are all about truth

3. Conservatives have always been the voting bloc to stop civil rights.

And they quite often were conservative democrats so to try to pin this on the GOP as the same conservatives is intellectually dishonest play on semantics.

4. They were for Common Core before they were against it.

Perhaps, but

...... A calm, rational discussion of the program is basically impossible, because the entire debate has been taken over by right-wing nuts who have forgotten that, a mere two years ago, they were cool with a program they now compare to Nazi indoctrination.

...is not my experience with discussions of common core.

 

[eagle7_31]

4 inconvenient facts conservatives conveniently ignore

1. The religious right started because of segregation, not abortion.

As Randall Balmer, a Darthmouth professor writing in Politico, explained in a recent article, the organized religious right started as a movement to protect white-only schools from federally mandated desegregation. As Balmer explains, there were many other attempts to rally evangelical Christians to become a conservative movement to support Republicans—“pornography, prayer in schools, the proposed Equal Rights Amendment to the Constitution, even abortion”—but none took. Under the guidance of Jerry Falwell, however, it was discovered that evangelical leaders would rally to keep black students out of private schools set up specifically so white kids didn’t have to go to desegregated public schools. Even though it was actually the Nixon administration that kickstarted the process of the IRS stripping tax-exempt status from “whites only” school, Falwell and his buddies blamed Jimmy Carter and used the issue to start rallying support for Ronald Reagan’s challenge. It was only after the evangelical right was organized that they started expanding into other issues, like abortion.

2. NRA used to support gun control.

The NRA is a gun industry lobby that likes to present itself as a “rights” group. With that level of deceit, no wonder many people, especially on the right, assume that the group has always existed to lobby against any restriction on access to firearms, or that gun control is a relatively new phenomenon only invented by pansy liberals in the past few decades. In reality, the government has been controlling access to guns for a long, long time. While there have been limits on gun ownership throughout the country’s history—often for sexist and racist reasons, such as bans on black people owning guns—the first modern federal gun control law passed in 1934, to stop the proliferation of automatic sub-machine guns that were popular with organized criminals. Prior to that, many states passed laws regulating guns, laws conservatives would reject today, such as waiting periods and requiring gun sellers to share information with police. The NRA actually helped write these laws.

And why not? The NRA was started as a marksman and sporting club, so there was no real reason to oppose gun control laws, until recent decades when it morphed into a lobby to protect the profits of gun manufacturers. Even as late as 1963, the NRA supported gun control laws. It was only as the culture wars began to build and the conservative movement developed that the NRA turned into the organization it is now, feeding paranoia and faux-patriotism to gullible conservatives in order to convince them to buy more guns.

3. Conservatives have always been the voting bloc to stop civil rights.

A lot of pundits and other charlatans like to deflect discussion of modern racism by claiming that Democrats were the ones who tried to stop the Civil Rights Act and Republicans were the ones who tried to pass it. Considering that it was a liberal Democrat—Lyndon B. Johnson—who signed the CRA, it’s clear that it was much more complicated than that. Yes, it’s true that some Democrats opposed the CRA and plenty of Republicans supported it. But the party lines were not drawn the same back then. Back then, both parties had a mix of liberals and conservatives, and since then, the parties have realigned, with all the conservatives—who voted against the CRA—stampeding to the Republican party and all the liberals—who voted for the CRA—running to the Democrats.

As Harry Enten, writing for the Guardian, notes, party was a poor predictor of a politician’s vote for the CRA in 1964. A far better predictor was state of origin. In the House, 90 percent of politicians from former Union states voted for it and only 8 percent of politicians from the South did. In the Senate, 92 percent of lawmakers from the Union states voted for the CRA, but only 5 percent—1 out of 22—of Southern senators did so. In other words, the votes against it came primarily from what we now consider the immovable “red” states—a permanent bloc of Republicans. And it was anger over the CRA that switched those previously Democratic states to Republican voters. The only states that voted for Barry Goldwater in 1964, besides Arizona,were Southern states.

Indeed, the best way to understand what happened in 1964 is that the CRA kicked off a process where the Republicans started to gather up all the conservative voters and Democrats expelled the racist vote but picked up all the liberals. Focusing on race instead of ideological leaning is a fundamentally dishonest tactic, when any honest assessment of the situation shows that the real divide was between conservatives and liberals, which remains the divide that governs our country today, even as the parties have rebranded themselves.

4. They were for Common Core before they were against it.

The most recent and possibly silliest about-face of the modern conservative movement has to be the turnaround on Common Core, a program initiated by the National Governors Association to standardize and elevate educational standards across the country. Originally, conservatives were indifferent to outright supportive of the program—many Republican governors considered themselves fans—and pretty much all the criticism came from people on the left, who were concerned that it would be used as cover for attacks on teacher’s unions and would favor “teach the test”-style memorization over actual education.

Then President Obama endorsed it in 2012. Immediately, the right decided that Common Core was a sinister conspiracy to shove liberal ideology down children’s throats (never mind that many educational experts on the left are against it). Liberals make measured criticisms of Common Core, saying it might squelch imagination and writing skills. Conservatives, on the other hand, have taken to accusing the Obama administration of using Common Core to steal children away and teach them to have sex and get divorced so they’ll vote for Democrats. A calm, rational discussion of the program is basically impossible, because the entire debate has been taken over by right-wing nuts who have forgotten that, a mere two years ago, they were cool with a program they now compare to Nazi indoctrination.

4 inconvenient facts conservatives conveniently ignore - Salon.com

Forced busing caused much (but not all) of what you are referring to (see South Boston in the mid 70's as an example). Most of those 'southern whites' were also economic new deal liberals who supported FDR, Truman etc up thru the 70's. As economic opportunity grew in the 80's and 90's priorities changed. Conservatives support equal opportunity liberals equal outcome.

As for the NRA, sometimes they can get carried away, but if you think for one minute some liberals don't want to ban guns altogether you are a fool.

As for education conservatives made a big mistake basically giving the left a virtual free reign from the late 60's on with the educational system. Schools should be teaching math, science, personal financial, personal dietary and physical education along with history and English. Instead the left has made most (but not all) the educational system a forum for their own social cultural viewpoints

 

[Wildman]

So, republicans are double-talking, double-dealing dirtballs. What else is new?

What have progressive democrats done for me, that I ever wanted in the first place, since Grover Cleveland?

i'm not a progressive. i am a liberal.

but that has nothing to do with you ignoring the facts in the o/p.

i have no issue with republicans. i can't abide people who abhor fact-based reality.

you're welcome.

.... .... i'm not a progressive. i am a liberal. .... .... ... ...





you are so fucking funny ..., but what the hell

 

[thereisnospoon]

i haven't seen a single one of you yet point out what is untrue in the article.

in fact, you've all proven my point

Ahh....You're not going to get away with that shit here.
There was not fact one in your OP. That stuff is opinion.
Now, you don't get to post opinion, claim it is fact then demand other prove that "it isn't"..
We do not prove negatives here and you don't get to create your own narrative and claim it as fact.
You have nothing but a point of view. Live with that.

 

[kiwiman127]

4 inconvenient facts conservatives conveniently ignore

1. The religious right started because of segregation, not abortion.

As Randall Balmer, a Darthmouth professor writing in Politico, explained in a recent article, the organized religious right started as a movement to protect white-only schools from federally mandated desegregation. As Balmer explains, there were many other attempts to rally evangelical Christians to become a conservative movement to support Republicans—“pornography, prayer in schools, the proposed Equal Rights Amendment to the Constitution, even abortion”—but none took. Under the guidance of Jerry Falwell, however, it was discovered that evangelical leaders would rally to keep black students out of private schools set up specifically so white kids didn’t have to go to desegregated public schools. Even though it was actually the Nixon administration that kickstarted the process of the IRS stripping tax-exempt status from “whites only” school, Falwell and his buddies blamed Jimmy Carter and used the issue to start rallying support for Ronald Reagan’s challenge. It was only after the evangelical right was organized that they started expanding into other issues, like abortion.

2. NRA used to support gun control.

The NRA is a gun industry lobby that likes to present itself as a “rights” group. With that level of deceit, no wonder many people, especially on the right, assume that the group has always existed to lobby against any restriction on access to firearms, or that gun control is a relatively new phenomenon only invented by pansy liberals in the past few decades. In reality, the government has been controlling access to guns for a long, long time. While there have been limits on gun ownership throughout the country’s history—often for sexist and racist reasons, such as bans on black people owning guns—the first modern federal gun control law passed in 1934, to stop the proliferation of automatic sub-machine guns that were popular with organized criminals. Prior to that, many states passed laws regulating guns, laws conservatives would reject today, such as waiting periods and requiring gun sellers to share information with police. The NRA actually helped write these laws.

And why not? The NRA was started as a marksman and sporting club, so there was no real reason to oppose gun control laws, until recent decades when it morphed into a lobby to protect the profits of gun manufacturers. Even as late as 1963, the NRA supported gun control laws. It was only as the culture wars began to build and the conservative movement developed that the NRA turned into the organization it is now, feeding paranoia and faux-patriotism to gullible conservatives in order to convince them to buy more guns.

3. Conservatives have always been the voting bloc to stop civil rights.

A lot of pundits and other charlatans like to deflect discussion of modern racism by claiming that Democrats were the ones who tried to stop the Civil Rights Act and Republicans were the ones who tried to pass it. Considering that it was a liberal Democrat—Lyndon B. Johnson—who signed the CRA, it’s clear that it was much more complicated than that. Yes, it’s true that some Democrats opposed the CRA and plenty of Republicans supported it. But the party lines were not drawn the same back then. Back then, both parties had a mix of liberals and conservatives, and since then, the parties have realigned, with all the conservatives—who voted against the CRA—stampeding to the Republican party and all the liberals—who voted for the CRA—running to the Democrats.

As Harry Enten, writing for the Guardian, notes, party was a poor predictor of a politician’s vote for the CRA in 1964. A far better predictor was state of origin. In the House, 90 percent of politicians from former Union states voted for it and only 8 percent of politicians from the South did. In the Senate, 92 percent of lawmakers from the Union states voted for the CRA, but only 5 percent—1 out of 22—of Southern senators did so. In other words, the votes against it came primarily from what we now consider the immovable “red” states—a permanent bloc of Republicans. And it was anger over the CRA that switched those previously Democratic states to Republican voters. The only states that voted for Barry Goldwater in 1964, besides Arizona,were Southern states.

Indeed, the best way to understand what happened in 1964 is that the CRA kicked off a process where the Republicans started to gather up all the conservative voters and Democrats expelled the racist vote but picked up all the liberals. Focusing on race instead of ideological leaning is a fundamentally dishonest tactic, when any honest assessment of the situation shows that the real divide was between conservatives and liberals, which remains the divide that governs our country today, even as the parties have rebranded themselves.

4. They were for Common Core before they were against it.

The most recent and possibly silliest about-face of the modern conservative movement has to be the turnaround on Common Core, a program initiated by the National Governors Association to standardize and elevate educational standards across the country. Originally, conservatives were indifferent to outright supportive of the program—many Republican governors considered themselves fans—and pretty much all the criticism came from people on the left, who were concerned that it would be used as cover for attacks on teacher’s unions and would favor “teach the test”-style memorization over actual education.

Then President Obama endorsed it in 2012. Immediately, the right decided that Common Core was a sinister conspiracy to shove liberal ideology down children’s throats (never mind that many educational experts on the left are against it). Liberals make measured criticisms of Common Core, saying it might squelch imagination and writing skills. Conservatives, on the other hand, have taken to accusing the Obama administration of using Common Core to steal children away and teach them to have sex and get divorced so they’ll vote for Democrats. A calm, rational discussion of the program is basically impossible, because the entire debate has been taken over by right-wing nuts who have forgotten that, a mere two years ago, they were cool with a program they now compare to Nazi indoctrination.

4 inconvenient facts conservatives conveniently ignore - Salon.com

You libs are amusing.
You cannot come up with your own ideas so you dredge up opinion pieces from liberal blogs and present them as legitimate news.
This isn't even a poor effort on your part.
Dismissed.

Yeah we see a lot of that also from the right.
I always chuckle when I see someone crying about the other side using biased/partisan talking points or misrepresentation of facts, but remain quite when their side does it.
I see both sides doing it all the time, it takes the word "intelligent" out of trying to conduct an "intelligent discussion".

 

[Wildman]

i haven't seen a single one of you yet point out what is untrue in the article.

in fact, you've all proven my point

NO ! you have proven our point by obfuscating, dodging, ducking and outright lying.

 

[Billo_Really]

NO ! you have proven our point by obfuscating, dodging, ducking and outright lying.

Until you specifically address the points made in the OP, you haven't proven jack shit!

 

[RetiredGySgt]

NO ! you have proven our point by obfuscating, dodging, ducking and outright lying.

Until you specifically address the points made in the OP, you haven't proven jack shit!

Until she sources actual documents supporting her opinion piece we have no obligation to respond to OPINIONS.

 

[thereisnospoon]

i know... you're allergic to facts. but keep on spewing

life in the bubble must suck.

Liberals and "facts" aren't even in the same zip code. ..

you really need to move to iran. you'll be much happier not having to deal with normal people.

Childish retort.

 

[Billo_Really]

Until she sources actual documents supporting her opinion piece we have no obligation to respond to OPINIONS.

She provided a link in the OP.

The burden of proof now shifts to the objector, to provide evidence their objection has merit and is not frivolous.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Until she sources actual documents supporting her opinion piece we have no obligation to respond to OPINIONS.

She provided a link in the OP.

The burden of proof now shifts to the objector, to provide evidence their objection has merit and is not frivolous.

Wrong her supposed source is an OPINION piece. And it does not source the claims either.

 

[koshergrl]

I'm baffled..why on earth would the NRA flip from not supporting *big gun manufacturer" rights to supporting them? Oh I know, that's not why they evolved in their position at all. Their position evolved when it became patently obvious that there was a strong and well funded movement to disarm America.