47 vertical support columns in core of each Twin Tower from bedrock to top floor

[Gamolon]

Creativedreams,

Another quote from Robertson taken from the site above. Looks like your ASSUMPTIONS are baseless.

National Academy of Engineering (NAE) - Reflections on the World Trade Center

To the best of our knowledge, little was known about the effects of a fire from such an aircraft, and no designs were prepared for that circumstance. Indeed, at that time, no fireproofing systems were available to control the effects of such fires.

Sorry, but you're just wrong.

Have a nice day.

 

[Gamolon]

Here is more on the 47 vertical core columns that somehow cut themselves and moved out of the way fast enough all the way down to not provide resistance so the top floor of each building could hit the ground almost as fast as a ball would hit the ground if dropped right beside them.

Propaganda debunkers intentionally try and mislead by focusing on the perimeter floor trusses and NOT the central core columns that should have easily stood........unless of course explosives were used to blow them completely out of the way all the way down and in doing so pulverizing everything but the steel before it even hits the ground.

YouTube- WTCCS Scenario - WTC 1 Collapse Arrest

Is that video a good representation of how the towers collapsed? No tilt or twist to the top, red portion? Column on column?

 

[creativedreams]

James Peter Leritz, B.Arch, M.Arch – Licensed Architect, State of California. 30 years experience as an Architect and Urban Designer in San Francisco and Denver. Former Assistant Professor, Department of Architecture, University of Illinois, Champaign. Former Assistant Professor, College of Environmental Design, University of Colorado, Boulder.

"At 1.8 million square feet, WTC 7 was possibly larger than any building on the West Coast. Bank of America (1.4 million sf) and the Transamerica Pyramid (.5 million sf), the two highest buildings in San Francisco, are together only slightly greater in area.

Few Americans know that WTC 7 collapsed, even fewer know how big it was. I have read that its collapse was shown only one time on television; in its documentaries about the WTC collapse, PBS not only didn't explain the collapse of WTC7 but never even mentioned the collapse of a third building, because doing so would have undermined their conclusion that planes and jet fuel were responsible for the collapses.

Much evidence exists of explosions throughout the WTC buildings. Persistent pools of 2000 degree metal can only be explained by the presence of thermite/thermate, used in planned demolitions. Squibs, puffs of smoke characteristic of planned demolitions, can be clearly seen in advance of the collapses.

The official story does not explain the collapse of WTC7 or the collapse of the cores of WTC 1 and 2. There is just one explanation for the evidence associated with these collapses: demolition by expertly planned and placed explosives."


Kerry Lewis McCarthy, B.Arch – Licensed Architect, State of Oregon. Experienced with high-rise steel frame structures, including building-forensic, some steel frame but mostly concrete. Studied WTC's design, structure and construction at university. Over 30 years experience.

"Very hard to understand the 'complete' lack of concrete rubble in the debris field. Even had the basements filled with concrete topping slab debris. There should have been a stack of jumbled building elements about 9 more stories above grade. The core columns were fully welded yet none were longer than 40 ft (max trucking length). This event as portrayed by the NIST Report totally messes with my understanding of how buildings behave. I haven't been able to reconcile the promoted theory of collapse with the way I know buildings to behave."

 

[Christophera]

Let's talk about the 47 vertical steel support columns in the core of each Twin Tower that somehow cut themselves and blew out of the way fast enough all the way down for the top floor in each building to hit the ground almost as fast as a ball would hit the ground if dropped right beside them.

Perhaps we can also discuss how everything but the steel was exploded into a huge cloud of dust before it even hit the ground and settled over the city....

YouTube- 9/11: South Tower "Collapse" video compilation

Hmmmmm, we've seen fizzrodd and divot talk about steel core columns, but they've never shown them. I know what was really there was elevator guide rail support steel (see butt plate connections left and right of the central crane) barely fastened together because they were supported by the concrete core (WTC 1 east core wall) that can be shown on 9-11 and the lead engineer described on September 13, 2001. They were very weak so fell immediately and by the time the sand and gravel fell they were gone from the core area in all 9-11 images.

The dust was mostly concrete as can be seen in the dust analysis, however, there were large amounts of chromium which is present in high tensile steel. From my knolwedge the concrete core walls had huge rebar made with high tensile steel.

Only a few engineers in the truth movement have actually tried to explain how the charged might have been set on the steel core columns that were supposed to be in the core. Gordon Ross was the one who gave it the best shot. A box column must have explosives with intimate contact all the way around them AND tamping to reflect the high pressure gasses back to the very dense steel. Meaning that there really wasn't room although access could be gained and work done unseen.

When it came to the 24 massive box columns that actually did exist, he gave up trying to explain how charges could be set there.

From my experience the FEMA deception basically creates a situation which is impossible. A straw man that obscures the possible. Concrete can be instantly fractured to fall freely by a small amount of high explosives that are properly placed explaining free fall feasibly.

That same concrete with its hard stone aggregate is fractured by the potent shockwave created by the proper placement, Suddenly you have mineral shrapnel traveling outwards from the blast center at perhaps 10k FPS for maybe 40 feet. Pulverization of teh buildings contents is well explained there.

That same shockwave will reduce the concrete in close proximity to very fine dust and heat it extremely which explains the pyroclastic type clouds feasibly, BTW, if that "properly placed explosive" happens to be very close to the high tensile rebar, it will have lots of iron and chromium in it as well.

 

[eots]

ccurs."[/quote]

Creativedreams,

Do you understand what the word "impact" means? An impact does not last over a period of time. According to the facts, the towers DID survive the impact of the planes. The south tower stood for 56 minutes AFTER the initial impact and the North tower stood for 1 hour and 44 minutes AFTER the initial impact. You use quotes out of context to try and prove your point.

LOL that's one of the stupidest things I have ever heard...survive the impact means the building remains standing ..period...not it does not collapse at the moment of impact

" the NIST conclusion about the cause of the collapses of the Twin Towers. “It says that the core columns, uninsulated due to the fact that the aircraft stripped off that insulation; they softened in the heat of the fire and shortened and that led to the collapse. They pulled in the external columns and it caused it to buckle. They went on further to say that there would be no collapse if the insulation remained in place.”


"A careful reading of the NIST report shows that they have no evidence that the temperatures they predict as necessary for failure are corroborated by findings"


OpEdNews - Article: Former Chief of NIST's Fire Science Division Calls for Independent Review of World Trade Center Investigation

Let's say someone was in a car. While driving, this person slammed into the side of another car. This person survives the IMPACT and is able to call 911 on their cell phone. 15 minutes later, the car bursts into flames and the ensuing fire kills the person inside as they were still trapped in the car. Now, is the cause if death the impact or the fire?

did the fire create molten metal ?? did it cause the car to collapse..lol

I looked through your posting above and 99% of what everyone said was that the towers were able to survive an IMPACT. Which, like I said, they did. You show me one quote from those people that says they did a study on the what affects of a "HORRENDOUS FIRE" would be on the steel structure?

no buildings in history ever collapsed due to fire until 9/11

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65Qg_-89Zr8[/ame]

Can you show me the study they did that shows the calculations for the exact scenario where the planes penetrated the perimeter columns, possibley severed a couple of core columns, and then the ensuing office fires WEAKENED the steel at different temperatures?

the only role the impact played according to NIST is initiating the fires and dislodging the fire proofing although there is no evidence of the temperatures required to cause failure or that the impact dislodged fire proofing


Dr. Quintiere summarized the NIST conclusion about the cause of the collapses of the Twin Towers. “It says that the core columns, uninsulated due to the fact that the aircraft stripped off that insulation; they softened in the heat of the fire and shortened and that led to the collapse. They pulled in the external columns and it caused it to buckle. They went on further to say that there would be no collapse if the insulation remained in place.”
http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_alan_mil_070820_former_chief_of_nist.htm

You are making grand assumptions based on quotes that don't even suggest that offices fires IN ADDITION to structural damage were taken into consideration.

The only thing they talk about is the initial impact. That's why they use terms like "kinetic energy" and take into account the "weight" of the planes hitting the towers.

Why don't you email Leslie Robertson or his firm and ask them exactly what was meant by "they were built to survive the impact"? Ask him is they did a study where they looked at the STRUCTURAL DAMAGE caused by a jet impact coupled with the ensuing "HORRENDOUS FIRES".

So basically you want all the quotes above to mean that the word "IMPACT", by definition, is an effect that lasts over time.

Is that correct creativedreams?

of course that is what it means

 

[Gamolon]

A quote from the man himself. Go peddle your bullshit elsewhere. Robertson, the man who helped design the towers, even says that they survived the impact.

National Academy of Engineering (NAE) - Reflections on the World Trade Center

It appears that about 25,000 people safely exited the buildings, almost all of them from below the impact floors; almost everyone above the impact floors perished, either from the impact and fire or from the subsequent collapse. The structures of the buildings were heroic in some ways but less so in others. The buildings survived the impact of the Boeing 767 aircraft, an impact very much greater than had been contemplated in our design (a slow-flying Boeing 707 lost in the fog and seeking a landing field). Therefore, the robustness of the towers was exemplary. At the same time, the fires raging in the inner reaches of the buildings undermined their strength. In time, the unimaginable happened . . . wounded by the impact of the aircraft and bleeding from the fires, both of the towers of the World Trade Center collapsed.

 

[Gamolon]

LOL that's one of the stupidest things I have ever heard...survive the impact means the building remains standing ..period...not it does not collapse at the moment of impact

According to the man who helped design the towers, they DID survive the impact.

It appears that about 25,000 people safely exited the buildings, almost all of them from below the impact floors; almost everyone above the impact floors perished, either from the impact and fire or from the subsequent collapse. The structures of the buildings were heroic in some ways but less so in others. The buildings survived the impact of the Boeing 767 aircraft, an impact very much greater than had been contemplated in our design (a slow-flying Boeing 707 lost in the fog and seeking a landing field). Therefore, the robustness of the towers was exemplary. At the same time, the fires raging in the inner reaches of the buildings undermined their strength. In time, the unimaginable happened . . . wounded by the impact of the aircraft and bleeding from the fires, both of the towers of the World Trade Center collapsed.

 

[Fizz]

Can you show me the study they did that shows the calculations for the exact scenario where the planes penetrated the perimeter columns, possibley severed a couple of core columns, and then the ensuing office fires WEAKENED the steel at different temperatures?

the only role the impact played according to NIST is initiating the fires and dislodging the fire proofing although there is no evidence of the temperatures required to cause failure or that the impact dislodged fire proofing

you are a fucking LIAR. did you even bother to read the report before making such a stupid statement? the vertical columns were severed transferring weight to the remaining columns. its all there in black and white, jackass.

http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/PDF/NCSTAR 1-6D.pdf

 

[candycorn]

LOL that's one of the stupidest things I have ever heard...survive the impact means the building remains standing ..period...not it does not collapse at the moment of impact

According to the man who helped design the towers, they DID survive the impact.

It appears that about 25,000 people safely exited the buildings, almost all of them from below the impact floors; almost everyone above the impact floors perished, either from the impact and fire or from the subsequent collapse. The structures of the buildings were heroic in some ways but less so in others. The buildings survived the impact of the Boeing 767 aircraft, an impact very much greater than had been contemplated in our design (a slow-flying Boeing 707 lost in the fog and seeking a landing field). Therefore, the robustness of the towers was exemplary. At the same time, the fires raging in the inner reaches of the buildings undermined their strength. In time, the unimaginable happened . . . wounded by the impact of the aircraft and bleeding from the fires, both of the towers of the World Trade Center collapsed.

If they didn't survive the impact, why would they still have remained standing? The impact is over once the planes hit.

 

[Gamolon]

LOL that's one of the stupidest things I have ever heard...survive the impact means the building remains standing ..period...not it does not collapse at the moment of impact

According to the man who helped design the towers, they DID survive the impact.

It appears that about 25,000 people safely exited the buildings, almost all of them from below the impact floors; almost everyone above the impact floors perished, either from the impact and fire or from the subsequent collapse. The structures of the buildings were heroic in some ways but less so in others. The buildings survived the impact of the Boeing 767 aircraft, an impact very much greater than had been contemplated in our design (a slow-flying Boeing 707 lost in the fog and seeking a landing field). Therefore, the robustness of the towers was exemplary. At the same time, the fires raging in the inner reaches of the buildings undermined their strength. In time, the unimaginable happened . . . wounded by the impact of the aircraft and bleeding from the fires, both of the towers of the World Trade Center collapsed.

If they didn't survive the impact, why would they still have remained standing? The impact is over once the planes hit.

Well, according to eots' and creativedreams' understanding of reality, "impact" means an event that can last 1 minute, 2 hours, or days.

 

[Fizz]

According to the man who helped design the towers, they DID survive the impact.

If they didn't survive the impact, why would they still have remained standing? The impact is over once the planes hit.

Well, according to eots' and creativedreams' understanding of reality, "impact" means an event that can last 1 minute, 2 hours, or days.

i guess if the empire state buildings fall down it will be from the impact of the B25 in 1945.

 

[Gamolon]

If they didn't survive the impact, why would they still have remained standing? The impact is over once the planes hit.

Well, according to eots' and creativedreams' understanding of reality, "impact" means an event that can last 1 minute, 2 hours, or days.

i guess if the empire state buildings fall down it will be from the impact of the B25 in 1945.

 

[eots]

According to the man who helped design the towers, they DID survive the impact.

If they didn't survive the impact, why would they still have remained standing? The impact is over once the planes hit.

Well, according to eots' and creativedreams' understanding of reality, "impact" means an event that can last 1 minute, 2 hours, or days.

no according to NIST if the fire proofing remained intact the building would of remained standing....oh wait a minute...did he mean standing for one sec.. one minute..all of eternity ??..

 

[creativedreams]

These two new videos show absolute proof of explosives used to bring down the World Trade Center Buildings.

This footage came right from the history channel itself....

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_B_Azbg0go"]YouTube- South Tower Smoking Guns[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBVhxnkK6s8"]YouTube- South Tower Smoking Guns (Follow-up)[/ame]

 

[candycorn]

These two new videos show absolute proof of explosives used to bring down the World Trade Center Buildings.

This footage came right from the history channel itself....

YouTube- South Tower Smoking Guns

YouTube- South Tower Smoking Guns (Follow-up)

Wow, you should do something about that.

 

[creativedreams]

These two new videos show absolute proof of explosives used to bring down the World Trade Center Buildings.

This footage came right from the history channel itself....

YouTube- South Tower Smoking Guns

YouTube- South Tower Smoking Guns (Follow-up)

Wow, you should do something about that.

I already am by spreading the information for all to see.

If I had an offer for a full time decent paying job with benefits then perhaps I would post for your side..

 

[Fizz]

These two new videos show absolute proof of explosives used to bring down the World Trade Center Buildings.

This footage came right from the history channel itself....

YouTube- South Tower Smoking Guns

YouTube- South Tower Smoking Guns (Follow-up)

Wow, you should do something about that.

I already am by spreading the information for all to see.

If I had an offer for a full time decent paying job with benefits then perhaps I would post for your side..

sorry, we dont let moronic assholes on our side. you need to stay on the muslim apologist side.

 

[candycorn]

These two new videos show absolute proof of explosives used to bring down the World Trade Center Buildings.

This footage came right from the history channel itself....

YouTube- South Tower Smoking Guns

YouTube- South Tower Smoking Guns (Follow-up)

Wow, you should do something about that.

I already am by spreading the information for all to see.

If I had an offer for a full time decent paying job with benefits then perhaps I would post for your side..

How's that working out for you? Nobody believes you or gives a flying fuck about you. Nobody cares about you. So apparently you're making a total ass of yourself.

Maybe get some skill and you could get a full time job someday; I hear Wal Mart is hiring but you probably don't meet their standards; go back to school and maybe between you and Curvelight you can get one GED

 

[eots]

Wow, you should do something about that.

I already am by spreading the information for all to see.

If I had an offer for a full time decent paying job with benefits then perhaps I would post for your side..

How's that working out for you? Nobody believes you or gives a flying fuck about you. Nobody cares about you. So apparently you're making a total ass of yourself.

Maybe get some skill and you could get a full time job someday; I hear Wal Mart is hiring but you probably don't meet their standards; go back to school and maybe between you and Curvelight you can get one GED

You must be a very ugly and insecure person cornycunt

 

[candycorn]

I already am by spreading the information for all to see.

If I had an offer for a full time decent paying job with benefits then perhaps I would post for your side..

How's that working out for you? Nobody believes you or gives a flying fuck about you. Nobody cares about you. So apparently you're making a total ass of yourself.

Maybe get some skill and you could get a full time job someday; I hear Wal Mart is hiring but you probably don't meet their standards; go back to school and maybe between you and Curvelight you can get one GED

You must be a very ugly and insecure person cornycunt

Financially secure, mentally secure, emotionally sound. It comes from working hard and expecting others to do the same. Whatever free ride you're getting will end soon enough and you too will have to actually do something or perish.

As for 9/11--you know--the subject that you've been destroyed on 1,000,000 times already; are we going to see any results from your belly-aching this year? Because for the past 8 years and 10,000 posts, you've accomplished zero.

How's that make you feel?