8 dead, including gunman, at multiple homes in Missouri

[Brain357]

Again....actual criminals are not going to admit to a stranger on the phone that they have comitted more felonies by using a gun for self defense...even justified...since even using a gun for justified self defense will put them back in prison....since it is long established that it is against the law for felons to use guns..........

Did Kleck keep names and numbers of each positive response? And can you really get in trouble with the law based on a survey response? Criminals have done much dumber things.

 

[2aguy]

This is what Dr. Kleck said about his study....this month in 2015.....

Defensive Gun Use Is Not a Myth - Gary Kleck - POLITICO Magazine

Yes defending his study again. Nothing really new there though he says now guns might be used more in defense than in crime. His previous exaggeration was like 3-4 times more. Have you determined why he flip flops on whether most defenses are at home or in public yet? Seems it depends on what part of his flawed survey he is defending...

brain....distorting again...he changes nothing, and simply responds to the new, old criticisms of his study from the 90s...you are trying to say he changed something when he didn't.....his study, and it's questions, and it's results are freely available to anyone interested...and he responds to all of his critics in separate, detailed papers addressing all of their fake made up numbers and complaints.......as he does here in 2015......

brain....you should stop thinking like a liberal gun grabber...you would be more honest if you did......

Seems I am thinking like an honest person with common sense. I have quoted where he said most defenses are at home. This new article now says they are in public. Why did he flip flop? Lott said in your email all his were home defenses.

Brain...read his actual study.....do you really think he poured through his old research for that quick rebuttal....in politico......please.....try to be honest.....

It's a pretty important claim. Why the flip flop?

Brain....again.....he responded to an article in politico....he wasn't giving a dissertation on his study........

 

[2aguy]

Again....actual criminals are not going to admit to a stranger on the phone that they have comitted more felonies by using a gun for self defense...even justified...since even using a gun for justified self defense will put them back in prison....since it is long established that it is against the law for felons to use guns..........

Did Kleck keep names and numbers of each positive response? And can you really get in trouble with the law based on a survey response? Criminals have done much dumber things.

Yes....criminals tend to be wary of strangers asking them about criminal activity.....and when a stranger calls them...do you think they will just admit...as felons, that they used guns for self defense....knowing they could go to jail for that act.....and that they could be being taped........some few yeah...they can be stupid too....but career criminals...as you say they are......



So yes...Kleck, one of 18 different studies, is more accurate at weeding out criminals....since his study is about defensive use of guns to stop crime....while the National Crime Victimization study is about determining what crimes people have been victims of....they aren't studying gun self defense.......it is not designed to study that issue.....

 

[Brain357]

Again....actual criminals are not going to admit to a stranger on the phone that they have comitted more felonies by using a gun for self defense...even justified...since even using a gun for justified self defense will put them back in prison....since it is long established that it is against the law for felons to use guns..........

Many criminals are not yet caught and are not felons. Every drug dealer is not a felon. Every burglar is not a felon.

 

[Derideo_Te]

More white dysfunction on display no doubt.

If it was a white killer why was the race hidden? They generally do that for black killers!

It was? The guy was named in the article and a google search turned up his picture.

Missouri shooter who killed seven ID d as Joseph Aldridge some victims were cousins authorities say - CBS News

 

[2aguy]

Again....actual criminals are not going to admit to a stranger on the phone that they have comitted more felonies by using a gun for self defense...even justified...since even using a gun for justified self defense will put them back in prison....since it is long established that it is against the law for felons to use guns..........

Did Kleck keep names and numbers of each positive response? And can you really get in trouble with the law based on a survey response? Criminals have done much dumber things.

Okay....let me explain this to you.....a stranger calls a career criminal, convicted felon......he doesn't know who they are or if they are police....pretending to be survey takers......and you expect them to answer yes to a felony on the phone....to someone who already knows their home phone number.........really?

 

[Brain357]

Again....actual criminals are not going to admit to a stranger on the phone that they have comitted more felonies by using a gun for self defense...even justified...since even using a gun for justified self defense will put them back in prison....since it is long established that it is against the law for felons to use guns..........

Did Kleck keep names and numbers of each positive response? And can you really get in trouble with the law based on a survey response? Criminals have done much dumber things.

Yes....criminals tend to be wary of strangers asking them about criminal activity.....and when a stranger calls them...do you think they will just admit...as felons, that they used guns for self defense....knowing they could go to jail for that act.....and that they could be being taped........some few yeah...they can be stupid too....but career criminals...as you say they are......



So yes...Kleck, one of 18 different studies, is more accurate at weeding out criminals....since his study is about defensive use of guns to stop crime....while the National Crime Victimization study is about determining what crimes people have been victims of....they aren't studying gun self defense.......it is not designed to study that issue.....

Sorry you can't use that excuse when you also use if for why the NCVS study is not accurate. Do your studies specifically do anything that would exclude criminals from counting as a defense?

 

[2aguy]

Again....actual criminals are not going to admit to a stranger on the phone that they have comitted more felonies by using a gun for self defense...even justified...since even using a gun for justified self defense will put them back in prison....since it is long established that it is against the law for felons to use guns..........

Many criminals are not yet caught and are not felons. Every drug dealer is not a felon. Every burglar is not a felon.

brain....gang members as young as 14 have criminal records and a life of crime....they know about the police...even at that age..........

 

[2aguy]

Again....actual criminals are not going to admit to a stranger on the phone that they have comitted more felonies by using a gun for self defense...even justified...since even using a gun for justified self defense will put them back in prison....since it is long established that it is against the law for felons to use guns..........

Did Kleck keep names and numbers of each positive response? And can you really get in trouble with the law based on a survey response? Criminals have done much dumber things.

Yes....criminals tend to be wary of strangers asking them about criminal activity.....and when a stranger calls them...do you think they will just admit...as felons, that they used guns for self defense....knowing they could go to jail for that act.....and that they could be being taped........some few yeah...they can be stupid too....but career criminals...as you say they are......



So yes...Kleck, one of 18 different studies, is more accurate at weeding out criminals....since his study is about defensive use of guns to stop crime....while the National Crime Victimization study is about determining what crimes people have been victims of....they aren't studying gun self defense.......it is not designed to study that issue.....

Sorry you can't use that excuse when you also use if for why the NCVS study is not accurate. Do your studies specifically do anything that would exclude criminals from counting as a defense?

the NCVS study is not accurate.

Brain...again....the NCVS is not a defensive gun use study.......it doesn't study that issue...it isn't designed to study that issue.....the other 18 studies are specifically designed to study defensive gun use.......


Ask the survey takers...ask Dr. Lott.....he seems happy to answer polite questions.....

 

[Brain357]

Again....actual criminals are not going to admit to a stranger on the phone that they have comitted more felonies by using a gun for self defense...even justified...since even using a gun for justified self defense will put them back in prison....since it is long established that it is against the law for felons to use guns..........

Did Kleck keep names and numbers of each positive response? And can you really get in trouble with the law based on a survey response? Criminals have done much dumber things.

Okay....let me explain this to you.....a stranger calls a career criminal, convicted felon......he doesn't know who they are or if they are police....pretending to be survey takers......and you expect them to answer yes to a felony on the phone....to someone who already knows their home phone number.........really?

Ok, you've said the same thing for why the NCVS survey is inaccurate. And like I mentioned all criminals wouldn't be felons. The act of defense wasn't itself a crime. You are claiming that people who were committing unlawful possession of a gun have no problem responding to the survey. So your own arguments go against you.

 

[Brain357]

Again....actual criminals are not going to admit to a stranger on the phone that they have comitted more felonies by using a gun for self defense...even justified...since even using a gun for justified self defense will put them back in prison....since it is long established that it is against the law for felons to use guns..........

Many criminals are not yet caught and are not felons. Every drug dealer is not a felon. Every burglar is not a felon.

brain....gang members as young as 14 have criminal records and a life of crime....they know about the police...even at that age..........

And as you have already admitted many people committing the crime of unlawful possession do respond to the survey. So obviously people aren't scared to respond to a survey even when they committed a crime. Sorry that's your own argument.

 

[Brain357]

Yes defending his study again. Nothing really new there though he says now guns might be used more in defense than in crime. His previous exaggeration was like 3-4 times more. Have you determined why he flip flops on whether most defenses are at home or in public yet? Seems it depends on what part of his flawed survey he is defending...

brain....distorting again...he changes nothing, and simply responds to the new, old criticisms of his study from the 90s...you are trying to say he changed something when he didn't.....his study, and it's questions, and it's results are freely available to anyone interested...and he responds to all of his critics in separate, detailed papers addressing all of their fake made up numbers and complaints.......as he does here in 2015......

brain....you should stop thinking like a liberal gun grabber...you would be more honest if you did......

Seems I am thinking like an honest person with common sense. I have quoted where he said most defenses are at home. This new article now says they are in public. Why did he flip flop? Lott said in your email all his were home defenses.

Brain...read his actual study.....do you really think he poured through his old research for that quick rebuttal....in politico......please.....try to be honest.....

It's a pretty important claim. Why the flip flop?

Brain....again.....he responded to an article in politico....he wasn't giving a dissertation on his study........

He needed to flip flop for the flawed part of his study he was currently defending. You can't say most defenses are at home one day and then say they are public the next. That is a huge disparity. Why the flip flop?

 

[2aguy]

The act of defense wasn't itself a crime.

No, but touching a gun as a convicted felon or criminal is....you can't touch a gun if you are a convicted criminal...at all...even to defend yourself.........

You are claiming that people who were committing unlawful possession of a gun have no problem responding to the survey.

And that is why Kleck says if anything gun defensive use is underreported.....because many law abiding citizens carried guns without permits, and some are concerned about getting caught up without the right paperwork to have a gun in their home....

Most law abiding citizens who have committed no crime may not know they couldn't have a gun in their home...so no fear there....

it is more likely a law abiding gun owner would respond to the survey than a career criminal...vs the NCVS where they would have to admit it to a badge carrying federal bureaucrat in person.....

While actual criminals have no reason to trust either interview process...since they know about wire taps...and police monitoring them..........

 

[Derideo_Te]

Strange how none of the victims were protected by their own guns.

 

[ClosedCaption]

So a mentally unstable guy, with attachment issues and family issues with his mom, has his mother die, and then, the only balancing force in his life is gone. Pretty easy to figure out what went down.

The mass murder in Missouri may have been sparked by the killer finding his dead mother

Read more: 8 people are dead in Missouri and the police aren t answering questions about what happened - Business Insider

Always an excuse for white crimes ain't it?

 

[2aguy]

He needed to flip flop for the flawed part of his study he was currently defending. You can't say most defenses are at home one day and then say they are public the next. That is a huge disparity. Why the flip flop?

No brain...no flip flop.....he responded to a politico article....he wasn't writing a paper in defense of his results or his methods.....get real....

 

[Brain357]

The act of defense wasn't itself a crime.

No, but touching a gun as a convicted felon or criminal is....you can't touch a gun if you are a convicted criminal...at all...even to defend yourself.........

You are claiming that people who were committing unlawful possession of a gun have no problem responding to the survey.

And that is why Kleck says if anything gun defensive use is underreported.....because many law abiding citizens carried guns without permits, and some are concerned about getting caught up without the right paperwork to have a gun in their home....

Most law abiding citizens who have committed no crime may not know they couldn't have a gun in their home...so no fear there....

it is more likely a law abiding gun owner would respond to the survey than a career criminal...vs the NCVS where they would have to admit it to a badge carrying federal bureaucrat in person.....

While actual criminals have no reason to trust either interview process...since they know about wire taps...and police monitoring them..........

So people committing an actual crime during the defense(unlawful possession of a gun) have no problem responding to a survey. But other people who have committed crimes unrelated to the defense won't respond to the survey? You have to be joking right? You can't use both sides of the argument depending on what your trying to defend.

 

[2aguy]

Strange how none of the victims were protected by their own guns.

1) you know they had guns

2) they may have broken the cardinal rule about answering the door to a stranger without a gun in your hand

3) and where exactly were the police....with their guns.......you know...the guys who are the only ones you anti gun nuts want to have guns......

4) if they had been carrying guns.....would they have had a better or worse chance of stopping the gun armed attacker?

5) since they were unarmed in the face of an armed attacker........did that help them survive the attack?

Now for the questions that you anti gun nuts never, ever answer....

6) If you could go back in time to just before the attack....would you give those people a gun?

 

[Brain357]

He needed to flip flop for the flawed part of his study he was currently defending. You can't say most defenses are at home one day and then say they are public the next. That is a huge disparity. Why the flip flop?

No brain...no flip flop.....he responded to a politico article....he wasn't writing a paper in defense of his results or his methods.....get real....

Yes that is a huge flip flop. Is he pushing concealed carry now?

 

[Brain357]

Strange how none of the victims were protected by their own guns.

1) you know they had guns

2) they may have broken the cardinal rule about answering the door to a stranger without a gun in your hand

3) and where exactly were the police....with their guns.......you know...the guys who are the only ones you anti gun nuts want to have guns......

4) if they had been carrying guns.....would they have had a better or worse chance of stopping the gun armed attacker?

5) since they were unarmed in the face of an armed attacker........did that help them survive the attack?

Now for the questions that you anti gun nuts never, ever answer....

6) If you could go back in time to just before the attack....would you give those people a gun?

He was family, I'm sure they weren't expecting him to shoot them. Even if they had guns they weren't going to shoot him.