80/20 healthcare

[LoneLaugher]

Nothing beats having a person suggest single payer health care and claim it as a new idea. I'll take it, though. It is progress.

Glad to have you on board, Freewill . We can use all the votes we can get.

 

[Freewill]

Nothing beats having a person suggest single payer health care and claim it as a new idea. I'll take it, though. It is progress.

Glad to have you on board, Freewill . We can use all the votes we can get.

Really quite amazing that even when agreed with you are insulting. Which shows I can see both sides, you, never. BTW, where did I make the claim of a new idea? Medicare isn't exactly new.

 

[Freewill]

What is the problem if everyone, everyone, is covered by a program like medicare? Where their premium pays 80 percent of cost and the person pays 20? Then if so desired the person can buy "advantage" or "gap" plans to enhance their coverage?

this would require dropping the company sponsored healthcare and in exchange people would have a choice of which private insurance they would buy advantage plans, which could be provided for by the company they work for. It would make every one in the same group.

Seems to me that would be fairly simple and would maintain both sides of the argument.

I am not really sure why private healthcare insurance, which has allowed costs to skyrocket, needs protection.

Because Medicare artificially sets prices for reimbursement that severely restricts the number of doctors which will accept Medicare. There is very little profit in it.

Also, the premiums are insufficient to offset the cost of the care, so we wind up passing the costs off to those with "real" insurance. Those $5.00 aspirins are paying for Grandma's bypass surgery a couple of dollars at a time.

You want healthcare costs to explode, just expand Medicare beyond its current scope.

One thing I do know for sure, the current system is unsustainable, if we don't want to bankrupt everyone. Health care cost are going up much faster then inflation rate.

I have not been denied because of medicare payments.

I am thinking that passing the cost off so that the insurance companies can be more profitable just seems wrong.

Costs are increasing because of Medicare and Medicaid. Expand them and you will really see costs shoot through the roof!

You may not have been denied because of payments, but have you ever tried to find a new doctor that will accept Medicare? My mother, God rest her soul, needed some psychiatric care to deal with her blindness, and other health issues. I tried unsuccessfully to locate any mental health care providers in a city with over 1 million people that would take her as a Medicare patient. I spent days calling every provider I could find to try and get her help. I found one that would evaluate her and see if they could help her, but I would have to pay them out of pocket first. The next appointment available was after she had already suffered a stroke and died.

Could you provide a link to the information you are giving? It seems to me to be a canned response.

It is not a canned response. It comes from my experience as an insurance agent and as a benefits instructor for AT&T.

Medicare and Medicaid simply do not cover the costs for the providers, so they bill everyone more to make a profit. It is the same with their losses on treating those without insurance and illegals.

Here is another example. Through a coding error by my doctor, I was once billed over $4000 for my share of a colonoscopy that was listed as being "elective", despite the fact that Obamacare requires all plans pay for required colonoscopies as preventive care. When I fought the billing tooth and nail, the hospital accounting department charged me what they said was the uninsured rate, which was a little over $300, rather than my 20% of the $4000 had I convinced the insurance company to cover it. I saved almost $500!

OK then, how do you explain that situation? How do the uninsured pay so much less then those with medicare? Seems like not having insurance would be cheaper.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Because Medicare artificially sets prices for reimbursement that severely restricts the number of doctors which will accept Medicare. There is very little profit in it.

Also, the premiums are insufficient to offset the cost of the care, so we wind up passing the costs off to those with "real" insurance. Those $5.00 aspirins are paying for Grandma's bypass surgery a couple of dollars at a time.

You want healthcare costs to explode, just expand Medicare beyond its current scope.

One thing I do know for sure, the current system is unsustainable, if we don't want to bankrupt everyone. Health care cost are going up much faster then inflation rate.

I have not been denied because of medicare payments.

I am thinking that passing the cost off so that the insurance companies can be more profitable just seems wrong.

Costs are increasing because of Medicare and Medicaid. Expand them and you will really see costs shoot through the roof!

You may not have been denied because of payments, but have you ever tried to find a new doctor that will accept Medicare? My mother, God rest her soul, needed some psychiatric care to deal with her blindness, and other health issues. I tried unsuccessfully to locate any mental health care providers in a city with over 1 million people that would take her as a Medicare patient. I spent days calling every provider I could find to try and get her help. I found one that would evaluate her and see if they could help her, but I would have to pay them out of pocket first. The next appointment available was after she had already suffered a stroke and died.

Could you provide a link to the information you are giving? It seems to me to be a canned response.

It is not a canned response. It comes from my experience as an insurance agent and as a benefits instructor for AT&T.

Medicare and Medicaid simply do not cover the costs for the providers, so they bill everyone more to make a profit. It is the same with their losses on treating those without insurance and illegals.

Here is another example. Through a coding error by my doctor, I was once billed over $4000 for my share of a colonoscopy that was listed as being "elective", despite the fact that Obamacare requires all plans pay for required colonoscopies as preventive care. When I fought the billing tooth and nail, the hospital accounting department charged me what they said was the uninsured rate, which was a little over $300, rather than my 20% of the $4000 had I convinced the insurance company to cover it. I saved almost $500!

OK then, how do you explain that situation? How do the uninsured pay so much less then those with medicare? Seems like not having insurance would be cheaper.

For some things it is cheaper! That is why requiring everyone to have insurance makes no sense. The flaw in the system is those who choose not to have insurance and never pay even a penny towards their bills. People like me who have insurance partially provided by their employers pay the increased costs for them, in terms of premiums, copays and coinsurance.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Nothing beats having a person suggest single payer health care and claim it as a new idea. I'll take it, though. It is progress.

Glad to have you on board, Freewill . We can use all the votes we can get.

Really quite amazing that even when agreed with you are insulting. Which shows I can see both sides, you, never. BTW, where did I make the claim of a new idea? Medicare isn't exactly new.

I'm insulting because this revelation took you a lifetime to see. This has been the progressive position for decades.

No need to keep harping on that though. Call and write your congressman. Tell him or her to support Medicare for all.

Thanks.

 

[eflatminor]

What is the problem if everyone, everyone, is covered by a program like medicare?

Because that requires theft and indentured servitude.

If your idea requires the forcible extraction of money from some, carried out by armed government agents, in order to work, it's a bad plan. If your little scheme means people working in the healthcare industry are forced to labor for compensation they did not voluntarily agree to, that's indentured servitude. Also a hallmark of a bad plan.

Leftists truly are an immoral people.

 

[Zander]

Why not get government out of insurance and healthcare entirely?

 

[eflatminor]

Why not get government out of insurance and healthcare entirely?

Well, that is one of the enumerated powers in the Constitution, right?

Oh, wait, no so much.

 

[Freewill]

What is the problem if everyone, everyone, is covered by a program like medicare?

Because that requires theft and indentured servitude.

If your idea requires the forcible extraction of money from some, carried out by armed government agents, in order to work, it's a bad plan. If your little scheme means people working in the healthcare industry are forced to labor for compensation they did not voluntarily agree to, that's indentured servitude. Also a hallmark of a bad plan.

Leftists truly are an immoral people.

Unless you are from Mars you certainly have not noticed how healthcare is bankrupting the country. If not the country then a whole lot of people.

So what is your solution? Allow the cost to just keep escalating to the point where no one can afford it and then live through a crash like in 2008 and the housing industry?

Do we keep letting insurance companies and healthcare providers take us for a ride? You may call it indentured servitude but I call it clearly being taken advantage of and down right stealing.

Almost all of America has decided they need healthcare. So let's do as I propose and make it voluntary, but it is still the only way to get insurance, or you pay cash.

So what is the difference in between in "indentured servitude" to the government or to an insurance executive who is only worried about their bottom line.

That said, what is your solution? Do nothing? Really? Or is it just to bitch about solutions that might actually work.

the government takes my money and buys bombs, I don't want to buy bombs. They take my money and change the lighting on the White House so it looks rainbow colored, I don't want them taking my money for something like that, but i don't have much of a choice. Call it indentured servitude or whatever but the reality is they take our money for lots of things, they might as well take it for something that could benefit us.

 

[Freewill]

Why not get government out of insurance and healthcare entirely?

Do you honestly think that their involvement is the reason for the high cost? If so you would be wrong, the government actually keeps the cost lower, at least by what I read.

 

[Freewill]

Nothing beats having a person suggest single payer health care and claim it as a new idea. I'll take it, though. It is progress.

Glad to have you on board, Freewill . We can use all the votes we can get.

Really quite amazing that even when agreed with you are insulting. Which shows I can see both sides, you, never. BTW, where did I make the claim of a new idea? Medicare isn't exactly new.

I'm insulting because this revelation took you a lifetime to see. This has been the progressive position for decades.

No need to keep harping on that though. Call and write your congressman. Tell him or her to support Medicare for all.

Thanks.

All I hear from the left is single payer, no answers no plan just canned response. IF that is what the liberals wanted then why did Obama do what he did? Why is Obamacare so f'ed up.

Your are insulted because you have no idea what you wanted other then single payer, whatever that means. Note i didn't use the term single payer one time. At some point every one has to realize that the system needs fixed but Obamacare isn't the solution and I doubt the Republican bill is either.

I think what really bothers you is you know you can never look at both sides and choose something that does not strictly follow liberal ideology. You hate people who look outside the box you created.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Nothing beats having a person suggest single payer health care and claim it as a new idea. I'll take it, though. It is progress.

Glad to have you on board, Freewill . We can use all the votes we can get.

Really quite amazing that even when agreed with you are insulting. Which shows I can see both sides, you, never. BTW, where did I make the claim of a new idea? Medicare isn't exactly new.

I'm insulting because this revelation took you a lifetime to see. This has been the progressive position for decades.

No need to keep harping on that though. Call and write your congressman. Tell him or her to support Medicare for all.

Thanks.

All I hear from the left is single payer, no answers no plan just canned response. IF that is what the liberals wanted then why did Obama do what he did? Why is Obamacare so f'ed up.

Your are insulted because you have no idea what you wanted other then single payer, whatever that means. Note i didn't use the term single payer one time. At some point every one has to realize that the system needs fixed but Obamacare isn't the solution and I doubt the Republican bill is either.

I think what really bothers you is you know you can never look at both sides and choose something that does not strictly follow liberal ideology. You hate people who look outside the box you created.

Medicare for all guy. That's the ticket. Both sides.

 

[eflatminor]

So what is your solution?

Free markets, free minds, and basic system of justice that punishes those that infringe on the rights of others. You know, like theft. That would be infringing on the rights of another.

 

[Freewill]

So what is your solution?

Free markets, free minds, and basic system of justice that punishes those that infringe on the rights of others. You know, like theft. That would be infringing on the rights of another.

What "right" are you talking about? You do know that right at this moment there are people getting free health care on you dime? Assuming you pay taxes.

80 percent of the population have healthcare insurance through their employers.

I am guessing at least another 10 percent are on medicare. That leaves 10 percent somewhere in between. But we do know that they all need health care insurance. Yes, they may think they don 't because they don't want to pay but someday they will and that day may be sooner then they think.

So my suggestion was to put EVERYONE on a plan like Medicare. Sorry, you are required by the government to have auto insurance to drive, I am not sure why this would necessarily be any different.

Besides, I didn't catch your solution. Is your solution is just to say screw 10 percent of the population. Well if it is then it is much more then 10 percent. You need to include those with crap healthcare plans.

 

[Freewill]

Nothing beats having a person suggest single payer health care and claim it as a new idea. I'll take it, though. It is progress.

Glad to have you on board, Freewill . We can use all the votes we can get.

Really quite amazing that even when agreed with you are insulting. Which shows I can see both sides, you, never. BTW, where did I make the claim of a new idea? Medicare isn't exactly new.

I'm insulting because this revelation took you a lifetime to see. This has been the progressive position for decades.

No need to keep harping on that though. Call and write your congressman. Tell him or her to support Medicare for all.

Thanks.

All I hear from the left is single payer, no answers no plan just canned response. IF that is what the liberals wanted then why did Obama do what he did? Why is Obamacare so f'ed up.

Your are insulted because you have no idea what you wanted other then single payer, whatever that means. Note i didn't use the term single payer one time. At some point every one has to realize that the system needs fixed but Obamacare isn't the solution and I doubt the Republican bill is either.

I think what really bothers you is you know you can never look at both sides and choose something that does not strictly follow liberal ideology. You hate people who look outside the box you created.

Medicare for all guy. That's the ticket. Both sides.

And when I say everyone, I include congress and the POTUS.

 

[Freewill]

What is the problem if everyone, everyone, is covered by a program like medicare? Where their premium pays 80 percent of cost and the person pays 20? Then if so desired the person can buy "advantage" or "gap" plans to enhance their coverage?

this would require dropping the company sponsored healthcare and in exchange people would have a choice of which private insurance they would buy advantage plans, which could be provided for by the company they work for. It would make every one in the same group.

Seems to me that would be fairly simple and would maintain both sides of the argument.

I am not really sure why private healthcare insurance, which has allowed costs to skyrocket, needs protection.

Because Medicare artificially sets prices for reimbursement that severely restricts the number of doctors which will accept Medicare. There is very little profit in it.

Also, the premiums are insufficient to offset the cost of the care, so we wind up passing the costs off to those with "real" insurance. Those $5.00 aspirins are paying for Grandma's bypass surgery a couple of dollars at a time.

You want healthcare costs to explode, just expand Medicare beyond its current scope.

One thing I do know for sure, the current system is unsustainable, if we don't want to bankrupt everyone. Health care cost are going up much faster then inflation rate.

I have not been denied because of medicare payments.

I am thinking that passing the cost off so that the insurance companies can be more profitable just seems wrong.

Costs are increasing because of Medicare and Medicaid. Expand them and you will really see costs shoot through the roof!

You may not have been denied because of payments, but have you ever tried to find a new doctor that will accept Medicare? My mother, God rest her soul, needed some psychiatric care to deal with her blindness, and other health issues. I tried unsuccessfully to locate any mental health care providers in a city with over 1 million people that would take her as a Medicare patient. I spent days calling every provider I could find to try and get her help. I found one that would evaluate her and see if they could help her, but I would have to pay them out of pocket first. The next appointment available was after she had already suffered a stroke and died.

Do away with medicare and do as I said, then doctors wouldn't have a choice. Except to stay in business.

The doctor doing my wife's surgery cast 2000 dollars, I know I paid. The day of the surgery he did at least 3 before 1 PM. Is that a lot?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

So what is your solution?

Free markets, free minds, and basic system of justice that punishes those that infringe on the rights of others. You know, like theft. That would be infringing on the rights of another.

What "right" are you talking about? You do know that right at this moment there are people getting free health care on you dime? Assuming you pay taxes.

80 percent of the population have healthcare insurance through their employers.

I am guessing at least another 10 percent are on medicare. That leaves 10 percent somewhere in between. But we do know that they all need health care insurance. Yes, they may think they don 't because they don't want to pay but someday they will and that day may be sooner then they think.

So my suggestion was to put EVERYONE on a plan like Medicare. Sorry, you are required by the government to have auto insurance to drive, I am not sure why this would necessarily be any different.

Besides, I didn't catch your solution. Is your solution is just to say screw 10 percent of the population. Well if it is then it is much more then 10 percent. You need to include those with crap healthcare plans.

Why not Medicaid instead of Medicare?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

What is the problem if everyone, everyone, is covered by a program like medicare? Where their premium pays 80 percent of cost and the person pays 20? Then if so desired the person can buy "advantage" or "gap" plans to enhance their coverage?

this would require dropping the company sponsored healthcare and in exchange people would have a choice of which private insurance they would buy advantage plans, which could be provided for by the company they work for. It would make every one in the same group.

Seems to me that would be fairly simple and would maintain both sides of the argument.

I am not really sure why private healthcare insurance, which has allowed costs to skyrocket, needs protection.

Because Medicare artificially sets prices for reimbursement that severely restricts the number of doctors which will accept Medicare. There is very little profit in it.

Also, the premiums are insufficient to offset the cost of the care, so we wind up passing the costs off to those with "real" insurance. Those $5.00 aspirins are paying for Grandma's bypass surgery a couple of dollars at a time.

You want healthcare costs to explode, just expand Medicare beyond its current scope.

One thing I do know for sure, the current system is unsustainable, if we don't want to bankrupt everyone. Health care cost are going up much faster then inflation rate.

I have not been denied because of medicare payments.

I am thinking that passing the cost off so that the insurance companies can be more profitable just seems wrong.

Costs are increasing because of Medicare and Medicaid. Expand them and you will really see costs shoot through the roof!

You may not have been denied because of payments, but have you ever tried to find a new doctor that will accept Medicare? My mother, God rest her soul, needed some psychiatric care to deal with her blindness, and other health issues. I tried unsuccessfully to locate any mental health care providers in a city with over 1 million people that would take her as a Medicare patient. I spent days calling every provider I could find to try and get her help. I found one that would evaluate her and see if they could help her, but I would have to pay them out of pocket first. The next appointment available was after she had already suffered a stroke and died.

Do away with medicare and do as I said, then doctors wouldn't have a choice. Except to stay in business.

The doctor doing my wife's surgery cast 2000 dollars, I know I paid. The day of the surgery he did at least 3 before 1 PM. Is that a lot?

Doctors would have no choice? I am not following you. Doctors do not have to treat Medicare patients if they do not want to! Are you proposing changing that?

If so, you are on the slippery slope of price-fixing and that is not acceptable in most people's opinions.

 

[Freewill]

What is the problem if everyone, everyone, is covered by a program like medicare? Where their premium pays 80 percent of cost and the person pays 20? Then if so desired the person can buy "advantage" or "gap" plans to enhance their coverage?

this would require dropping the company sponsored healthcare and in exchange people would have a choice of which private insurance they would buy advantage plans, which could be provided for by the company they work for. It would make every one in the same group.

Seems to me that would be fairly simple and would maintain both sides of the argument.

I am not really sure why private healthcare insurance, which has allowed costs to skyrocket, needs protection.

Because Medicare artificially sets prices for reimbursement that severely restricts the number of doctors which will accept Medicare. There is very little profit in it.

Also, the premiums are insufficient to offset the cost of the care, so we wind up passing the costs off to those with "real" insurance. Those $5.00 aspirins are paying for Grandma's bypass surgery a couple of dollars at a time.

You want healthcare costs to explode, just expand Medicare beyond its current scope.

One thing I do know for sure, the current system is unsustainable, if we don't want to bankrupt everyone. Health care cost are going up much faster then inflation rate.

I have not been denied because of medicare payments.

I am thinking that passing the cost off so that the insurance companies can be more profitable just seems wrong.

Costs are increasing because of Medicare and Medicaid. Expand them and you will really see costs shoot through the roof!

You may not have been denied because of payments, but have you ever tried to find a new doctor that will accept Medicare? My mother, God rest her soul, needed some psychiatric care to deal with her blindness, and other health issues. I tried unsuccessfully to locate any mental health care providers in a city with over 1 million people that would take her as a Medicare patient. I spent days calling every provider I could find to try and get her help. I found one that would evaluate her and see if they could help her, but I would have to pay them out of pocket first. The next appointment available was after she had already suffered a stroke and died.

Do away with medicare and do as I said, then doctors wouldn't have a choice. Except to stay in business.

The doctor doing my wife's surgery cast 2000 dollars, I know I paid. The day of the surgery he did at least 3 before 1 PM. Is that a lot?

Doctors would have no choice? I am not following you. Doctors do not have to treat Medicare patients if they do not want to! Are you proposing changing that?

If so, you are on the slippery slope of price-fixing and that is not acceptable in most people's opinions.

Are people really happy with how things are going today?

Don't you think something has to change?

The heath insurance companies make gobs of money for nothing. But the real rise is in health care. Health care as education seems to have no bridle on expense. the rise in health care far exceeds the inflation rate. How long can we survive with such a situation? I will tell you how long, a long time because 80 percent get their health care through their companies. Although not immune to the increases it just doesn't seem to be that much. So they are happy with the status quo.

I realize that doctors make a lot of sacrifices but making upwards of 6000 dollars in just 4 hours seem like they are doing very well.

 

[Freewill]

So what is your solution?

Free markets, free minds, and basic system of justice that punishes those that infringe on the rights of others. You know, like theft. That would be infringing on the rights of another.

What "right" are you talking about? You do know that right at this moment there are people getting free health care on you dime? Assuming you pay taxes.

80 percent of the population have healthcare insurance through their employers.

I am guessing at least another 10 percent are on medicare. That leaves 10 percent somewhere in between. But we do know that they all need health care insurance. Yes, they may think they don 't because they don't want to pay but someday they will and that day may be sooner then they think.

So my suggestion was to put EVERYONE on a plan like Medicare. Sorry, you are required by the government to have auto insurance to drive, I am not sure why this would necessarily be any different.

Besides, I didn't catch your solution. Is your solution is just to say screw 10 percent of the population. Well if it is then it is much more then 10 percent. You need to include those with crap healthcare plans.

Why not Medicaid instead of Medicare?

I must admit, i don't know the difference.