80/20 healthcare

[eflatminor]

So what is your solution?

Free markets, free minds, and basic system of justice that punishes those that infringe on the rights of others. You know, like theft. That would be infringing on the rights of another.

What "right" are you talking about? You do know that right at this moment there are people getting free health care on you dime? Assuming you pay taxes.

Taking what doesn't belong to you would be one example of infringing on another's rights. Hurting someone unnecessarily would be another.

And yes, I absolutely consider taxing a man's labor to be an infringement of rights. Those people getting free health care on my dime have stolen from another. That they did it by colluding with collectivist assholes that will enforce the theft with armed government agents does not make it less than theft.

So that's my solution. Stop stealing from some people. The market for healthcare will respond to the demand without requiring theft from some citizens.

 

[eflatminor]

The heath insurance companies make gobs of money for nothing.

Wrong. The health insurance industry has among the lowest profit margins of any major market, typically around 3 percent. The soda industry, the computer industry...there you see giant profit margins in the 20 percent+ range.

More importantly, if you think insurance is "nothing", then don't buy it (nor should the government force you to do so). Just don't come crying to others when you get sick or your house burns down. A lack of preparation on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.

 

[eflatminor]

[Sorry, you are required by the government to have auto insurance to drive.

Only on public roads. I can drive my car without a license on private property. Just saying.

 

[basquebromance]

Repeal Obamacare or let it implode. Do not pass Obamacare-lite Healthcare Bill. It's idiotic!

 

[Freewill]

So what is your solution?

Free markets, free minds, and basic system of justice that punishes those that infringe on the rights of others. You know, like theft. That would be infringing on the rights of another.

What "right" are you talking about? You do know that right at this moment there are people getting free health care on you dime? Assuming you pay taxes.

Taking what doesn't belong to you would be one example of infringing on another's rights. Hurting someone unnecessarily would be another.

And yes, I absolutely consider taxing a man's labor to be an infringement of rights. Those people getting free health care on my dime have stolen from another. That they did it by colluding with collectivist assholes that will enforce the theft with armed government agents does not make it less than theft.

So that's my solution. Stop stealing from some people. The market for healthcare will respond to the demand without requiring theft from some citizens.

So you are in the exchanges buying your own insurance, correct? You don't receive company sponsored healthcare, medicaid, or medicare, you are completely on your own?

 

[Freewill]

The heath insurance companies make gobs of money for nothing.

Wrong. The health insurance industry has among the lowest profit margins of any major market, typically around 3 percent. The soda industry, the computer industry...there you see giant profit margins in the 20 percent+ range.

More importantly, if you think insurance is "nothing", then don't buy it (nor should the government force you to do so). Just don't come crying to others when you get sick or your house burns down. A lack of preparation on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.

You need to back your statistics. Health insurance ads nothing to healthcare, it isn't even containing the out of control increase in cost.

Here is an article, which is from 2011, but nothing has changed:

The Truth About Health Insurance Company Profits: They're Excessive | HuffPost

 

[Freewill]

[Sorry, you are required by the government to have auto insurance to drive.

Only on public roads. I can drive my car without a license on private property. Just saying.

And you can treat yourself for a heart attack and stay off the public roads.

 

[Freewill]

Why is Health Care so expensive? - Consumer Reports

Good article, and that is why we are seeing so many "get checked for hepatitis" commercials. At least with insurance you know what OOP max you will pay, but without it they can seize your assets and even your home I've been told. People who do not have insurance and assets are playing Russian roulette with their assets.

They do need to do something with the costs. T thinks it should be left up to the states, and yet he talks about insurance companies crossing state lines, well they can't because each state has different standards, but now they can due to the ACA, with min standards that all ins needs to cover.

Since Obamacare didn't really address the cost, could you name one suggestion you have to contain costs?

The problem I see is that medicen is labor intencive.

 

[eflatminor]

So what is your solution?

Free markets, free minds, and basic system of justice that punishes those that infringe on the rights of others. You know, like theft. That would be infringing on the rights of another.

What "right" are you talking about? You do know that right at this moment there are people getting free health care on you dime? Assuming you pay taxes.

Taking what doesn't belong to you would be one example of infringing on another's rights. Hurting someone unnecessarily would be another.

And yes, I absolutely consider taxing a man's labor to be an infringement of rights. Those people getting free health care on my dime have stolen from another. That they did it by colluding with collectivist assholes that will enforce the theft with armed government agents does not make it less than theft.

So that's my solution. Stop stealing from some people. The market for healthcare will respond to the demand without requiring theft from some citizens.

So you are in the exchanges buying your own insurance, correct? You don't receive company sponsored healthcare, medicaid, or medicare, you are completely on your own?

Straw man argument. The federal government requires large corporations to provide health insurance. Mid size companies are compelled to follow suit.

I stand against any government telling a private company what they must provide in the way of compensation to their adult employees.

 

[eflatminor]

The heath insurance companies make gobs of money for nothing.

Wrong. The health insurance industry has among the lowest profit margins of any major market, typically around 3 percent. The soda industry, the computer industry...there you see giant profit margins in the 20 percent+ range.

More importantly, if you think insurance is "nothing", then don't buy it (nor should the government force you to do so). Just don't come crying to others when you get sick or your house burns down. A lack of preparation on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.

You need to back your statistics. Health insurance ads nothing to healthcare, it isn't even containing the out of control increase in cost.

Here is an article, which is from 2011, but nothing has changed:

The Truth About Health Insurance Company Profits: They're Excessive | HuffPost

If the market for healthcare were truly a free market, you might not need full insurance because you could simply pay out of pocket for most services. If you want to roll the dice on a catastrophic (expensive) situation, you go right ahead. Just don't make others pay for your poor planning.

I choose the coverage, just in case. And that's what insurance adds.

Lastly, look at any D&B report on the health insurance industry. Typically 3-4 percent margins. Your local library will have them; they're not free.

Or, you could believe the Economist magazine, which states "an average profit margin of 3.3 percent"

https://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2010/03/insurance_costs_and_health-care_reform

 

[eflatminor]

[Sorry, you are required by the government to have auto insurance to drive.

Only on public roads. I can drive my car without a license on private property. Just saying.

And you can treat yourself for a heart attack and stay off the public roads.

Lots of snark, little on solutions.

If you have a plan, let's hear it. But before you begin, let me just say that if the funds (the capital) for your idea will be extracted involuntarily from some citizen, enforced by armed government agents who will literally kick down my door to get that money, you are supporting tyranny and theft.

Further, if someone working in the healthcare will, under your plan, be forced to labor at a rate or for a fee to which they did not voluntarily agree, you're supporting indentured servitude.

So, let's hear your great idea that isn't immoral as hell.

The floor is yours.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

What is the problem if everyone, everyone, is covered by a program like medicare? Where their premium pays 80 percent of cost and the person pays 20? Then if so desired the person can buy "advantage" or "gap" plans to enhance their coverage?

this would require dropping the company sponsored healthcare and in exchange people would have a choice of which private insurance they would buy advantage plans, which could be provided for by the company they work for. It would make every one in the same group.

Seems to me that would be fairly simple and would maintain both sides of the argument.

I am not really sure why private healthcare insurance, which has allowed costs to skyrocket, needs protection.

That's what I'm screaming for, and I'm beginning to think we might get there.

The Medicare / Medicare Advantage / Medicare Supplement system is already in place, it works, it takes a massive monkey off the back of American business, it's an excellent blend of public and private, let's do it.

The GOP and the Dems have fucked up, but I think our "leaders" (har har, cough) are smart enough to avoid real Single Payer. This is the obvious answer.
.

Bullshit! Medicare for all IS SINGLE PAYER. The poor won't want to pay premiums, they don't even pay taxes. How does the government collect the $109 monthly for Part B? We had the best healthcare system befor Obama fucked it up. It makes sense to simply repeal Obamacare and go back to the best healthcare system in the world. And don't replace it!

Mmmmerica baby! Woot!

 

[Mac1958]

What is the problem if everyone, everyone, is covered by a program like medicare? Where their premium pays 80 percent of cost and the person pays 20? Then if so desired the person can buy "advantage" or "gap" plans to enhance their coverage?

this would require dropping the company sponsored healthcare and in exchange people would have a choice of which private insurance they would buy advantage plans, which could be provided for by the company they work for. It would make every one in the same group.

Seems to me that would be fairly simple and would maintain both sides of the argument.

I am not really sure why private healthcare insurance, which has allowed costs to skyrocket, needs protection.

That's what I'm screaming for, and I'm beginning to think we might get there.

The Medicare / Medicare Advantage / Medicare Supplement system is already in place, it works, it takes a massive monkey off the back of American business, it's an excellent blend of public and private, let's do it.

The GOP and the Dems have fucked up, but I think our "leaders" (har har, cough) are smart enough to avoid real Single Payer. This is the obvious answer.
.

Bullshit! Medicare for all IS SINGLE PAYER. The poor won't want to pay premiums, they don't even pay taxes. How does the government collect the $109 monthly for Part B? We had the best healthcare system befor Obama fucked it up. It makes sense to simply repeal Obamacare and go back to the best healthcare system in the world. And don't replace it!

Mmmmerica baby! Woot!

YouTube has helpful videos on free market Medicare Advantage and Medicare Supplement plans.

Let me know when you've educated yourself on them and we can talk.
.

 

[debbiedowner]

What is the problem if everyone, everyone, is covered by a program like medicare? Where their premium pays 80 percent of cost and the person pays 20? Then if so desired the person can buy "advantage" or "gap" plans to enhance their coverage?

this would require dropping the company sponsored healthcare and in exchange people would have a choice of which private insurance they would buy advantage plans, which could be provided for by the company they work for. It would make every one in the same group.

Seems to me that would be fairly simple and would maintain both sides of the argument.

I am not really sure why private healthcare insurance, which has allowed costs to skyrocket, needs protection.

It is this simple our Congress and Senate does not see it that way. Claims systems are already set up at government and insurance company level.

 

[debbiedowner]

I have never had a DR that turned me away due to Medicare.

Most docs and hospitals accept Medicare, some may not accept assignment. In the state I live in about 99% of all providers accept assignment. But then again it's loaded with seniors.

 

[debbiedowner]

I pay close to 450 a month for medicare, Part d (400 deduct) and medigap. As long as gaps and advantage plans do not keep going up, and that is for 1 person. So a couple at this time will probably pay 1000 and still have dental , eye glasses and assessment, and hear aids to pay for out of pocket.

Medicare today is 134/ month so I am not sure how you are paying 450 for medicare, unless you have an expensive advantage plan.

I pay 134/month for medicare and an advantage plan, because I don't use medical more then a few times a year it is pretty cost efficient for me. I also get free gym membership.

My wife has to buy hers and she pays 450/month for a really crappy plan. 750 dollars for an ER visit. She is getting her knee replaced soon and I have no idea how much that is going to cost. Maybe i don't really want to know.

How much is your advantage plan? What is your wifes OOP max, that is the most it can cost you. Best to make sure you have time for elective sx as she will probably need some rehab. You do not want to go into next years deduct.

My advantage plan cost me zero, but it isn't that much better then just having medicare. There are some perks, like free gym membership, but I do have some problems with how they charge for things like durable medical equipment.

This will be my third knee replacement I have been the nursemaid for. Second for my wife and my father had one done at 88. I am used to the suffering. I believe her out of pocket is 7500 so that is what I am expecting to pay.

Max out of pocket can't be that high this year. If I am not mistaken all MAPD's on DME pay either 100% or 80%. Just put the first letter of the company you're with.

 

[debbiedowner]

Medicare today is 134/ month so I am not sure how you are paying 450 for medicare, unless you have an expensive advantage plan.

I pay 134/month for medicare and an advantage plan, because I don't use medical more then a few times a year it is pretty cost efficient for me. I also get free gym membership.

My wife has to buy hers and she pays 450/month for a really crappy plan. 750 dollars for an ER visit. She is getting her knee replaced soon and I have no idea how much that is going to cost. Maybe i don't really want to know.

How much is your advantage plan? What is your wifes OOP max, that is the most it can cost you. Best to make sure you have time for elective sx as she will probably need some rehab. You do not want to go into next years deduct.

My advantage plan cost me zero, but it isn't that much better then just having medicare. There are some perks, like free gym membership, but I do have some problems with how they charge for things like durable medical equipment.

This will be my third knee replacement I have been the nursemaid for. Second for my wife and my father had one done at 88. I am used to the suffering. I believe her out of pocket is 7500 so that is what I am expecting to pay.

Well I guess you know what to expect. Your father must of been in decent shape for getting one at 88. Yes hate to say it ,but that does sound like you will be reaching your OOP max. Anything else she needs done this year, a cataract removal? ! Well so your Advantage Plan is free, well might as well take whatever they can give to you. So then you are in a HMO I guess. Do they cover any meds?

No med coverage. I take what I call old man pills so the cost is cheaper to just buy pills then to join a plan. Of course there is a small penalty if I ever do join a plan.

Which brings up another problem with healthcare, prescriptions drugs. My wife sent me to pick up her prescriptions one day and one of those cost 150 dollars. the Pharmacist saw me having a stoke and told me to search the internet for coupons. So I did, we got the prescription for 5 dollars. The pharmacist would have been more then happy to take the 150 dollars without saying a word. When I called a pharmacy to see what it would cost me without a drug plan some would not tell me without a prescription. I told them it didn't matter I was paying the full load, didn't matter to them. Some did tell me that the price would be something like 70 dollars. I searched the internet and got them for about 10 dollars. It is all a rip off. BTW, you can buy drugs from Canada, that was the next best option.

So they have coupons for meds. Yes Part D is kind of a rip off. I read the cost of generics are going up to cover the cost of hepatitis meds. I know there is a penalty for going without Part D, forget what it is.

1% per month penalty for ever how many months you go without. It's of the national average of Part D plans, around $34 this year. Good RX for coupons.

 

[JoeB131]

That's what I'm screaming for, and I'm beginning to think we might get there.

The Medicare / Medicare Advantage / Medicare Supplement system is already in place, it works, it takes a massive monkey off the back of American business, it's an excellent blend of public and private, let's do it.

The GOP and the Dems have fucked up, but I think our "leaders" (har har, cough) are smart enough to avoid real Single Payer. This is the obvious answer.

Ah, yes, the "No Dressage Horse Left Behind" policy.

Every other country that has single payer spends less, and gets better results in nearly every metric.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Don't forget you pay in all your life for Medicare as well. Its not an entitlement.

This is the part pretty much every Medicare single payer fan forgets. Yes it is low premiums at retirement age, but that is because you already paid into it for decades

 

[JoeB131]

This is the part pretty much every Medicare single payer fan forgets. Yes it is low premiums at retirement age, but that is because you already paid into it for decades

But that would describe ANY system you talk about. If you are getting private insurance, you or your employer are paying into it for years - a lot more than you pay into medicare - before you take anything out.

The problem creeps in when the insurance companies decide that it's more important to pay 9 figure Executive Salaries and dividends to stock holders than it is to pay for the medical bills of the people who are paying the premiums.