85 shots: US cops use more ammo per man than Germans per year

boedicca

Uppity Water Nymph from the Land of Funk
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Feb 12, 2007
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In another thread, some soon to be forgotten moonbat claimed that rightwingers want to interpret the horrors of Ferguson to the militarization of police forces. (Their agenda is to keep the flame of racism alive, but that's another topic).

I offer the following as proof the militarization is real, and a growing threat to all citizens. It's not just that our cops fire their guns far more often, it's that they shoot to kill, often at unarmed people.


Eighty-five shots: That’s the total number of bullets German police used in all of 2011, Der Spiegel reports. But what does it say when US cops use as much ammo to bring down one man as German cops need to keep the peace nationwide?

The rate at which German police discharged their firearms is further underscored by how rarely they shot with fatal intent. Of the 85 bullets used in 2011, 49 were warnings shots, 36 were aimed at criminal suspects, 15 people were injured, and 6 were killed, the German daily continues.

The statistics prove "our police officers are not thugs in uniform,”Christian Democratic insider Lorenz Caffier said.

And when comparing Germany with the United States, another story altogether appears. Although police in the United States have to file a report every time they use their firearm in the line of duty, either through sheer volume or disinterest, no statistics are readily available on the amount of ammunition used annually. But though the number of shell casings spent by the boys in blue has not been tallied, there are other indicators that something is amiss when it comes to state-sponsored violence in the US. The US population is almost four times that of Germany's, yet its level of police violence is exponentially higher.

The trigger-happy nature of US cops was perhaps best epitomized in the controversial 2001 Bruce Springsteen song "American Skin (41 Shots)." The song recounts the 1999 shooting death of an unarmed 23-year-old Guinean immigrant in New York City. The victim, Amadou Diallo, as the song title alludes, was shot 41 times by four plain-clothed police officers outside of his apartment. And Diallo's case is anything but anomalous in today's America.

Last month, Los Angeles Police killed a 19-year-old man after unloading over 90 shots on him following a high-speed chase down an area freeway. The same month, New York police fired at a suspected murderer 84 times. While the man was wounded, “the punk incredibly survived,” the New York Post reports....


http://rt.com/usa/us-germany-85-shots-022/
 
Apples and Oranges......

Most US officers are not properly trained in how to shoot. They also use their firearms as a means to provide cover rather than actual tactics. Properly train the officers and fire those that cannot meet the upgraded classification requirements. That will make a huge difference.

In terms of fatalities.... if you shoot it should ALWAYS be to kill. If you don't need to kill then the gun isn't the proper tool to be using. Shooting to wound is never aporopriate.

In terms of the level of police violence.... that's because American minorities can't bother to do as they're told and force officers to use force. German cops also aren't expected to enforce a full slate of laws such as drug laws and other moral crimes which often require force.
 
That's exactly the rational that the Statists use...thanks for confirming your bias.
 
biggovernment.jpg
 
Because our cops police a nation full of psychos, who have easy access to LOTS of drugs and guns, and are often raised without a father figure or any familial discipline structure.

Just sayin'.

Don't like it? Go sign the fuck up and show us how to do it better.
 
Because our cops police a nation full of psychos, who have easy access to LOTS of drugs and guns, and are often raised without a father figure or any familial discipline structure.

Just sayin'.

Don't like it? Go sign the fuck up and show us how to do it better.

SRSLY? That's all you've got?

Your brown shirt needs washing.
 
And while we're at it, we should demilitarize Federal regulatory agencies, too.

Many of the raids [federal paramilitary enforcers] conduct are against harmless, often innocent, Americans who typically are accused of non-violent civil or administrative violations.

Take the case of Kenneth Wright of Stockton, Calif., who was “visited” by a SWAT team from the U.S. Department of Education in June 2011. Agents battered down the door of his home at 6 a.m., dragged him outside in his boxer shorts, and handcuffed him as they put his three children (ages 3, 7, and 11) in a police car for two hours while they searched his home. The raid was allegedly intended to uncover information on Wright’s estranged wife, Michelle, who hadn’t been living with him and was suspected of college financial-aid fraud.

The year before the raid on Wright, a SWAT team from the Food and Drug Administration raided the farm of Dan Allgyer of Lancaster, Pa. His crime was shipping unpasteurized milk across state lines to a cooperative of young women with children in Washington, D.C., called Grass Fed on the Hill. Raw milk can be sold in Pennsylvania, but it is illegal to transport it across state lines. The raid forced Allgyer to close down his business.


Let's demilitarize the regulatory agencies too - Overlawyered
 
Because our cops police a nation full of psychos, who have easy access to LOTS of drugs and guns, and are often raised without a father figure or any familial discipline structure.

Just sayin'.

Don't like it? Go sign the fuck up and show us how to do it better.

Hey Bucs, who started this thread? A Democrat?

You're mighty confused.
 
Right after we get the citizenry to start obeying the law. Until then the LEOs need to be as well armed and violent as necessary to do their job.

The vast majority of the citizenry (which include COPS, btw - they are civilians) do obey the law. But if you think we need militarized police to keep them intimidated, then you are a loon.
 
You're absolutely right that I will always stand with the police over criminals.

You don't stand with the police over criminals. You stand with Federally Enabled Militarized Police against law abiding citizens.
 
The vast majority of the citizenry (which include COPS, btw - they are civilians) do obey the law. But if you think we need militarized police to keep them intimidated, then you are a loon.

No they don't. Speeding, jaywalking, pot smoking, etc.... are all CRIMES. Simply because you haven't gotten caught doesn't make you any less a criminal in my mind.
 
99.9% of the citizenry are criminals, whether they've been caught or not.

You are quite the moron. The only reason that ratio of citizens could possibly be criminals, is because Big Government has criminalized perfectly benign behaviors.

+
biggovernment.jpg
 
You are quite the moron. The only reason that ratio of citizens could possibly be criminals, is because Big Government has criminalized perfectly benign behaviors.

I have no problem with big government so long as it's the Right Government. Maybe people need to get back to living a moral and decent life and then people won't see their lives criminalized.
 
Apples and Oranges......

Most US officers are not properly trained in how to shoot. They also use their firearms as a means to provide cover rather than actual tactics. Properly train the officers and fire those that cannot meet the upgraded classification requirements. That will make a huge difference.

In terms of fatalities.... if you shoot it should ALWAYS be to kill. If you don't need to kill then the gun isn't the proper tool to be using. Shooting to wound is never aporopriate.

In terms of the level of police violence.... that's because American minorities can't bother to do as they're told and force officers to use force. German cops also aren't expected to enforce a full slate of laws such as drug laws and other moral crimes which often require force.


excellent points. I am a master class pistol shooter and routinely win or place highly in high stress timed competitions. Very few police officers train anything like I or my wife and Kid do-200+ rounds a week. a couple decades ago, I studied the largest local PD. They had 984 pistol packing officers and the PD expended 140K rounds that year. The Training officers shot almost 25K of those rounds. So the average cop shot less than 130 rounds a year which included the 60 round qualification course they have to shoot each year. We knew that it was highly unlikely that these officers were buying their own ammunition and practicing at a place other than the Official range because they did not have to pay for ammo at the official range.

so the biggest PD in SW ohio averaged less ammo per year per officer than my 16 year old son shoots in a week
which is why he can outshoot any cop in the area and by a wide margin

the few cops who can shoot well generally are people like me-we practice on our own time and get training on our own dime
 
TurtleDude, I can't claim the same level of shooting ability but in my competition and self-defense experience I have sen the same. ... Cops who are barely SAFE never mind competent with their sidearms.
 
I have no problem with big government so long as it's the Right Government. Maybe people need to get back to living a moral and decent life and then people won't see their lives criminalized.


Then you clearly have a problem with the concept of Individual Liberty.
 
I have a serious problem with allowing idiots to make ANY decisions for themselves; and I would suggest most Americans are idiots at this point in history. That's why I believe in Privileges rather than Rights
 

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