A Call to Reason: Why Background Checks Don’t Work

[hazlnut]

Reading this thread -- it's more a call to idiocy -- those that oppose reasonable gun laws and restrictions.

 

[pismoe]

change is coming in a couple of decades ehh KONDOR ?? Well good , couple of decades of arguing and fighting and the old REAL Americans will pretty much be gone anyway . Same happened with my parents Greatest Generation as that generation is mostly gone by now . And good for them as they don't have to witness the society that you mrobama supporting types are building Kondor !!

 

[Kondor3]

It has been tried before. The 1933 NFA provided registration for certain classes of guns, like machine guns. Guess what, there are tons of unregistered machine guns out there...

Indeed. 82 years ago. Long before the age of high-speed Internet and web-centric large-scale databases and a thousand-and-one other technological differences since then.

...The amount of civil disobedience that would result from attempted registration would be mind boggling...

Doubtful. Any disobedience we've seen to-date has been on the Local or State level, and, with respect to sustained efforts, most of that should wither on the vine, fairly quickly.

...Canada tried to register long guns. Total and complete failure...

Only because it was 20 years ago, and because the Canadian government did such a piss-poor job with implementation, and was too cowardly to enforce its own laws.

...The only "solution" is going door to door searching and confiscating...

Incorrect. There are several solutions. Warrant-authorized searches would likely only be utilized for circumstances where sales records indicated the presence of a weapon and in which no response or an un-believable response had been served-up in reply to official inquiries about failure to register.

...Which is what the gun grabbers want...

True.

They won't be happy until we've gone this route.

So why not get out in front of the issue, come up with a valid middle-ground that non-extremists on both sides can live with, and shut them up, so that they wither on the vine?

...That will provoke civil war.

Yes. I hear this from time to time in connection with Gun Rights activism. It grows less credible and more humorous with each passing year.

 

[Kondor3]

change is coming in a couple of decades ehh KONDOR ?? Good , couple of decades of arguing and fighting and the old REAL Americans will pretty much be gone anyway . Same happened with my parents Greatest Generation as that generation is mostly gone by now . And good for them as they don't have to witness the society that you mrobama supporting types are building Kondor or Condor !!

Calm yourself, Tvarich.

 

[pismoe]

so , the answer is simple , ladies , minorities , [amnestied] illegals , immigrants , buy guns as soon as you can , get interested in shooting . Mostly get interested in shooting as a skill used for self defense and in the furtherance of the real reason for the Second Amendment . Learn the Constitution and its Bill of Rights theory . Foreigners in the USA should really be interested as I don't think you want to end up with the tyranny that caused you to flee you third world he11holes . Kondor gives ALL us gun people a couple of decades so might as well join up with GOA and NRA now as you start fighting the gun grabbers NOW . Thanks Kondor !!

 

[Pete7469]

It has been tried before. The 1933 NFA provided registration for certain classes of guns, like machine guns. Guess what, there are tons of unregistered machine guns out there.
The amount of civil disobedience that would result from attempted registration would be mind boggling. Canada tried to register long guns. Total and complete failure.
The only "solution" is going door to door searching and confiscating. Which is what the gun grabbers want. That will provoke civil war.

Mexico is a perfect example of the failure of gun control. It is still possible to own guns legally there, but it's so draconian that the black market is the easier route. There you can get full auto guns and hand grenades if you can afford them.

The moonbats can try all they like to pass one fallible law after another ridiculous law. They will be circumvented and the worse they become the bigger the black market will get. CNC machines and lathes are widely available. People will make expensive crappy guns for common criminals that can't be traced. Very rare is a it that a crime is committed with a rifle, period, that's including scary black guns. The greater the stakes in a crime, the greater the firepower determined criminals will obtain.

The best way Americans can prevent crime is to be equipped to help stop it. This would include education at the high school level about safe handling. You shouldn't get a diploma without knowing how to safely unload a variety of weapons. A higher level of education would include marksmanship and tactics. Just because you hear gunfire you don't rush in and be a hero. It's self defense not being a cop. These are simple concepts but I wouldn't be stunned to hear bed wetters oppose it because it would be effective.

 

[pismoe]

and read and digest the info that Kondor and the other gun grabbers post . See who the enemy of Freedom is !!

 

[Pete7469]

Yes. I hear this from time to time in connection with Gun Rights activism. It grows less credible and more humorous with each passing year.

Kondor,

Your stance makes me sick. The idea that "gun control is coming either way, so we need to shackle ourselves and the gun grabbers will go away", is incredibly preposterous.

They will NEVER go away. "Compromising with a moonbat is always wrong. You'll never get a result that's half decent, and they ALWAYS come back for more. Our right has been established, and finally backed up by SCOTUS precedent. I personally think we should press further with congressional law that repeals the GCA of 68 and 86. You don't win this fight by withdrawing behind some legislative Maginot Line for safety, because the nazis will breech it. You win this fight though good PR and pushing the ball further down field.

We should be pushing for complete "liberalization" ( I hate using that word in this context ) of our 2A RKBA. That and proper education to reduce accidents as much as possible, and education so that idiots aren't shooting the wrong people and we will have gun statistic similar to Switzerland where there's a full auto weapon in almost every home.

 

[The Rabbi]

Virtually no one, especially democrats, want to ban the ownership of guns altogether.

That is a patently false statement.

Agreed.

So many Gun-Grabbers are full of shit clean up to their ears, and will lie through their teeth, to get the guns.

That's why it's so important for Gun Owners to come-off looking rational and collaborative and to have a huge say in how future nationwide standards and laws unfold.

Because those standards and laws are coming.

We're down to whether Gun-Owners or Gun-Grabbers will dominate that next round of the National Conversation.

Personally, it's my hope that the Gun Owners dominate.

So your point is we need to capitulate to avoid being defeated? No, I dont think so. Gun control has been a total failure, both of policy and politically. We are winning this war. No need to surrender now.

You obtusely misrepresent my actual point, and I believe you to be suffering from both shortsightedness and foolhardiness in connection with this issue.

Change is coming, over the next couple of decades.

Will you be part of that change, and will you have your hand on the steering wheel alongside others, or are you going to let others drive the outcome for you?

Based on what I'm seeing here, it seems likely that others will steer the outcome, and that you will end-up with far, far less than you otherwise might have, if you had shown the slightest foresight and imagination and collaboration with your fellow countrymen, who grow bone-achingly tired of all the gun violence and who are determined to end it.

Just remember... when that inevitable day comes, when the Nation moves towards universal gun-control, that you had your chance to steer the conversation, but flubbed it by sulking rather than participating...

A sad day indeed... one that you could have done so much to fashion in your own image while there was still time, had you only participated in good faith.

Your choice.

Your consequences.

A blind man can see this day coming, a mile away.

Get out in front of it, and shape that day more in your favor than not, while there is still time.

You claim I misprepresent what you say and then go on to prove I was correct. Your view is we should capitulate to avoid defeat.
Wrong. We fight to avoid defeat. And we are winning. Twenty years ago only cranks thought the 2A conferred an individual right. Few states had Shall Issue carry permits. The Clinton AWB was in force.
Now all of that is turned around and surveys of peoples attitudes show far more pro gun sentiment.

 

[The Rabbi]

Reading this thread -- it's more a call to idiocy -- those that oppose reasonable gun laws and restrictions.

A call to idiocy and you show up. Instructive, no?

 

[The Rabbi]

It has been tried before. The 1933 NFA provided registration for certain classes of guns, like machine guns. Guess what, there are tons of unregistered machine guns out there...

Indeed. 82 years ago. Long before the age of high-speed Internet and web-centric large-scale databases and a thousand-and-one other technological differences since then.

...The amount of civil disobedience that would result from attempted registration would be mind boggling...

Doubtful. Any disobedience we've seen to-date has been on the Local or State level, and, with respect to sustained efforts, most of that should wither on the vine, fairly quickly.

...Canada tried to register long guns. Total and complete failure...

Only because it was 20 years ago, and because the Canadian government did such a piss-poor job with implementation, and was too cowardly to enforce its own laws.

...The only "solution" is going door to door searching and confiscating...

Incorrect. There are several solutions. Warrant-authorized searches would likely only be utilized for circumstances where sales records indicated the presence of a weapon and in which no response or an un-believable response had been served-up in reply to official inquiries about failure to register.

...Which is what the gun grabbers want...

True.

They won't be happy until we've gone this route.

So why not get out in front of the issue, come up with a valid middle-ground that non-extremists on both sides can live with, and shut them up, so that they wither on the vine?

...That will provoke civil war.

Yes. I hear this from time to time in connection with Gun Rights activism. It grows less credible and more humorous with each passing year.

You understand the NFA is still in force, right? And it has not removed unregistered machine guns.
My middle ground is simple: Government has no right to regulate citizens owning personal weapons. In return we promise not to stage a rebellion.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

As an ex convict I have no issue with the government preventing me from owning a firearm. While I may not be a danger to society many other excons can not say the same.
On top of that criminal records can be expunged after some time passes. At that point gun ownership is possible.

I believe background checks are appropriate based on what I outlined above.

 

[The Rabbi]

As an ex convict I have no issue with the government preventing me from owning a firearm. While I may not be a danger to society many other excons can not say the same.
On top of that criminal records can be expunged after some time passes. At that point gun ownership is possible.

I believe background checks are appropriate based on what I outlined above.

If you're not a danger to society why shouldnt you be able to own a gun? Why do you think you're unique in being the only convicted felon who is not a danger?

 

[Pete7469]

Reading this thread -- it's more a call to idiocy -- those that oppose reasonable gun laws and restrictions.

A call to idiocy and you show up. Instructive, no?

I thought it was pretty clear in the opening statement that mindless bed wetting libtard opinions weren't desired. I don't even mind liberals that at least respect the 2A in some way, but hazeldouche's point of view can be found on a bumper sticker.

 

[Moonglow]

I can buy weapons all day long out of newspapers...

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

As an ex convict I have no issue with the government preventing me from owning a firearm. While I may not be a danger to society many other excons can not say the same.
On top of that criminal records can be expunged after some time passes. At that point gun ownership is possible.

I believe background checks are appropriate based on what I outlined above.

If you're not a danger to society why shouldnt you be able to own a gun? Why do you think you're unique in being the only convicted felon who is not a danger?

Who makes the determination what level of danger I pose? Me? The government? A doctor? That's why a blanket policy is best.
And you should look at the stats on how many convicts actually make it in society & don't become repeat offenders. I represent a very small portion.

 

[Pete7469]

As an ex convict I have no issue with the government preventing me from owning a firearm. While I may not be a danger to society many other excons can not say the same.
On top of that criminal records can be expunged after some time passes. At that point gun ownership is possible.

I believe background checks are appropriate based on what I outlined above.

The reason I would support your rights is because you're not a danger, you don't have the desire to be a danger, and if you did the law wouldn't stop you from doing anything anyway.

You should not be disarmed arbitrarily by law and left to face criminal attack without the best available means of resistance.

I respect your point of view though.

 

[pismoe]

keep the violent and dangerous in prison , why let them out to commit more crimes of violence . After paying debt to society they should be Free with ALL Rights restored so they can be normal people again .

 

[2aguy]

The supreme court ruled that rights from the constitution can be reasonably regulated. I don't understand how background checks don't work, and your quote doesn't very well explain it. If someone has a reasonable criminal history, they probably shouldn't fucking have guns.

The entire point of owning a firearm is to protect yourself from criminals. When seconds count, the police are minutes away. A criminal history background check ensures that criminals won't legally acquire guns.

Background checks don't work...criminals use people with clean records to get guns.....or they steal guns....all of the mass shooters we know of got easily got around background checks.....they either went through and passed them....Santa barbara, Virginia Tech, Colorado Theater, Fort hood, both times, or they bought their guns illegally or stole them...Sandy Hook, Columbine.........

Any new background checks will be bypassed the exact same way the minute they go on line....they do however increase the cost of guns and rack up false positives against law abiding citizens...also, the government has been known to shut down the system several days a month just for fun...clinton's people did it and now obama's people do it....just to gum up the works.....

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"A Call to Reason: Why Background Checks Don’t Work"

What isn't working is the premise of this thread.