A Call to Reason: Why Background Checks Don’t Work

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Virtually no one, especially democrats, want to ban the ownership of guns altogether.

That is a patently false statement.

 

[Billy000]

Virtually no one, especially democrats, want to ban the ownership of guns altogether.

That is a patently false statement.

I agree that they exist. The point I am making is that they are a tiny insignificant minority that no one in power takes seriously. No democrats in office have taken the position of banning guns altogether. You people live in a fantasy world. You believe bullshit because it validates your feelings about the leftwing.

 

[Moonglow]

Libtards are exempt BTW because everyone knows they're incapable of reason. This is directed at those who respect gun rights but still feel compelled to grant the federal government the power to infringe on these rights. Please answer the poll after reading the entire article and post.

Why? When your just a pissing little poor speller?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Virtually no one, especially democrats, want to ban the ownership of guns altogether.

That is a patently false statement.

I agree that they exist. The point I am making is that they are a tiny insignificant minority that no one in power takes seriously. No democrats in office have taken the position of banning guns altogether. You people live in a fantasy world. You believe bullshit because it validates your feelings about the leftwing.

 

[Billy000]

Virtually no one, especially democrats, want to ban the ownership of guns altogether.

That is a patently false statement.

I agree that they exist. The point I am making is that they are a tiny insignificant minority that no one in power takes seriously. No democrats in office have taken the position of banning guns altogether. You people live in a fantasy world. You believe bullshit because it validates your feelings about the leftwing.

Um did you even watch the video? She is talking about assault weapons. Not guns in general, Also, your example is from fucking 1995.

 

[-S-]

"I guess because criminals and nuts can possibly get guns illegally if they try hard enough, we might as well make it easier for them and just make it legal. If no matter what there will always be a few crazy people with guns, why do anything?
If something can't be perfect, then why bother with improvements? That's a waste of money."





^^^That makes absolutely zero sense...

If that's the way you want to look at it, I guess we should just have an open border:

"Some illegal immigrants will still get in, no matter how much we secure the border...Ah hell, just let 'em all in! Why bother spending money securing the border if some will still get in?"

Some people will not see how the same line of logic applies to both of the above, but that's to be expected; some people are idiots.



And the argument "You can't do anything, it's a Constitutional right!" doesn't work here.
That argument only works if lawmakers tried to take away the right to own any guns.
It is completely legal to regulate guns with background checks. Anybody who says otherwise should do some research.

 

[Kondor3]

Should the government infringe on rights granted in the constitution, for "public safety".

No.

Should the government establish and enforce standards for the licensing of gun-owners and the registration of firearms?

Yes.

There is no reason for firearms to be registered with the government. It's not their concern whether or not you own one or how many.

I hear you.

You're wrong.

If we can register our vehicles, which can kill, but which are merely intended to transport - because they can be dangerous...

We can register our guns, which can kill, and which are intended specifically to kill - because they inherently are dangerous.

Registering a gun does not infringe upon your right to own one (or a hundred).

But it helps all of us - The People - to trace ownership and possession, if-and-when the weapon is used in commission of a crime or in the injuring or killing of a fellow human being.

Tracing ownership and possession introduce accountability in connection with the weapon - something missing historically and increasingly necessary at present and in future.

The battle over whether or not Registration and Licensing are legal has long-since been fought in several jurisdictions, in favor of Registration and Licensing.

What is needed next are Federal standards for Registration and Licensing for all 50 States, and centralized databases for interstate data recording and collaboration on vetting for ownership and possession and transfer and sale and enforcement et al.

Time to level the playing field, between States that require Licensing and Registration, and those that do not, and to get them all playing by the same rules, so that we have seamless operation of such laws and standards across the entire nation - a state of affairs that might very well seem more restrictive in some areas, but which will also loosen things up in a great many more 'liberal' or gun-grabber-dominated jurisdictions.

Perhaps it's time to serve-up a nationwide advisory referendum on the subject during some upcoming general election or another, to truly gauge the Will of the People in such matters - otherwise, present and future needs are likely to force the issue, and it seems likely that such measures - intelligently crafted and worded - will pass any related Constitutional scrutiny.

The alternative would be to amend the Constitution so that LIcensing and Registration cannot be obstructed.

Would you like to see that?

Because it's probably going to come to that, in the not-too-distant future, if there's no "budge" on the traditionalist side.

Either recognize modern realities and needs in connection with firearms and participate in genuine give-and-take on the subject, or face such a Constitutional amendment.

'Cause I really and truly do believe that it will be coming to that (a Constitutional amendment) within the next couple of decades, if this can't be fixed any other way.

 

[The Rabbi]

Gun laws are worthless. None of them work. None of them. We have 100 years of history with gun control and it's all worthless.

You're an idiot.

Of course they work.

Everyday someone is arrest for illegal possession of a handgun or other weapon.

Everyday someone is deterred from purchasing and illegal.

By your idiot logic, rape laws don't work because rapes occur.

Fucking moron. Get off this board. It's for adults.

I am a firearms dealer, moron. Every day people acquire guns illegally. There is virtually no one who is prohibited who doesnt have a gun who wants it. It is impossible to deny access when there are 300M guns in circulation.
What you don't know would fill the internet.

 

[The Rabbi]

Virtually no one, especially democrats, want to ban the ownership of guns altogether.

That is a patently false statement.

I agree that they exist. The point I am making is that they are a tiny insignificant minority that no one in power takes seriously. No democrats in office have taken the position of banning guns altogether. You people live in a fantasy world. You believe bullshit because it validates your feelings about the leftwing.

Bullshit. Diane Feinstein is on record as supporting confiscation. If gun control werent such a loser at the ballot box others would support it too.

 

[The Rabbi]

Should the government infringe on rights granted in the constitution, for "public safety".

No.

Should the government establish and enforce standards for the licensing of gun-owners and the registration of firearms?

Yes.

There is no reason for firearms to be registered with the government. It's not their concern whether or not you own one or how many.

I hear you.

You're wrong.

If we can register our vehicles, which can kill, but which are merely intended to transport - because they can be dangerous...

We can register our guns, which can kill, and which are intended specifically to kill - because they inherently are dangerous.

Registering a gun does not infringe upon your right to own one (or a hundred).

But it helps all of us - The People - to trace ownership and possession, if-and-when the weapon is used in commission of a crime or in the injuring or killing of a fellow human being.

Tracing ownership and possession introduce accountability in connection with the weapon - something missing historically and increasingly necessary at present and in future.

The battle over whether or not Registration and Licensing are legal has long-since been fought in several jurisdictions, in favor of Registration and Licensing.

What is needed next are Federal standards for Registration and Licensing for all 50 States, and centralized databases for interstate data recording and collaboration on vetting for ownership and possession and transfer and sale and enforcement et al.

Time to level the playing field, between States that require Licensing and Registration, and those that do not.

The alternative would be to amend the Constitution so that LIcensing and Registration cannot be obstructed.

Would you like to see that?

Because it's probably going to come to that, in the not-too-distant future, if there's no "budge" on the purist's side.

Either recognize modern realities and needs in connection with firearms and participate in genuine give-and-take on the subject, or face such a Constitutional amendment.

'Cause I really and truly do believe that it will be coming to that (a Constitutional amendment) within the next couple of decades, if this can't be fixed any other way.

Bullshit.
States with gun registration show no lower rates of crime than states without it. Registration always leads to confiscation. See what happened in NY with their stupid Safe Act, when they ordered people to get rid of their "assault weapons."
And what is this "designed to kill" bullshit meme? Guns are designed to shoot projectiles. Where you aim the thing is up to the user. The design of something is pretty much irrelevant to its use.

 

[Kondor3]

...Bullshit. States with gun registration show no lower rates of crime than states without it. Registration always leads to confiscation. See what happened in NY with their stupid Safe Act, when they ordered people to get rid of their "assault weapons." And what is this "designed to kill" bullshit meme? Guns are designed to shoot projectiles. Where you aim the thing is up to the user. The design of something is pretty much irrelevant to its use.

True reform, on a nationwide level, would mean Licensing, Registration and Enforcement (enforcement with actual teeth in it), across the entire span of all 50 States.

It's a little difficult to make a substantive difference with Registration in County A when all you have to do is drive 15 minutes and circumvent it by buying in County B.

When all 50 States are playing to the same Song Book and when buying or selling or registering or licensing in Honolulu is no different than that in Bangor, then we'll see.

For now, the idea looks sufficiently attractive to a sufficiently large number of Americans who are disgusted with the present American rate of gun-crime that it is probably going to materialize whether you like it or not and regardless of whether you fight against it or not.

It has never been tried before on the Federal level in a manner that cannot be circumvented so it is impossible to use historical or existing Local Examples to defend against its prospects for success.

The only remaining question is whether you want this done easily (with sensible, mature collaboration between citizens) or roughly (over your heads, by forcible legal means).

Hell... consider... true Gun Law Reform could be used to authoritatively define which weapons citizens are allowed to have, and, if done right, could even authorize private possession of assault weapons, large-capacity magazines, etc. - so long as they are properly registered and so long as their owners are properly licensed, thereby overriding existing State or Local law which forbids them to so many of our fellow citizens.

Think... use your imagination, fer Crissakes... that particular cup can be made to be more than half-full, on behalf of Gun Owners, rather than Gun-Grabbers... if only you have the foresight and courage to both participate and ensure that such new Standards and Laws are crafted more in your favor than in favor of the Gun-Grabbers.

Or you can remain intransigent and outside the loop - allowing your adversaries to control the conversation and message and lawmaking outcomes.

Reminds of me of the Union Folk linked to the old Hostess Bakeries fiasco... riding that cash-cow until it dropped dead from exhaustion, rather than engaging constructively.

Registration and Licensing are only PART of the picture... the OTHER and even LARGER part is a chance to define what each and every citizen is allowed to possess in any State iin the Union. And, if Gun-Owners are an integral part of that process, they end-up with far more of what they want, than if they remain aloof.

Be part of the National Conversation, rather than merely a roadblock to driven-around, via entirely Constitutional means.

Or not.

Your choice.

Or so it seams, to this observer.

 

[Kondor3]

Virtually no one, especially democrats, want to ban the ownership of guns altogether.

That is a patently false statement.

Agreed.

So many Gun-Grabbers are full of shit clean up to their ears, and will lie through their teeth, to get the guns.

That's why it's so important for Gun Owners to come-off looking rational and collaborative and to have a huge say in how future nationwide standards and laws unfold.

Because those standards and laws are coming.

We're down to whether Gun-Owners or Gun-Grabbers will dominate that next round of the National Conversation.

Personally, it's my hope that the Gun Owners dominate.

 

[The Rabbi]

...Bullshit. States with gun registration show no lower rates of crime than states without it. Registration always leads to confiscation. See what happened in NY with their stupid Safe Act, when they ordered people to get rid of their "assault weapons." And what is this "designed to kill" bullshit meme? Guns are designed to shoot projectiles. Where you aim the thing is up to the user. The design of something is pretty much irrelevant to its use.

True reform, on a nationwide level, would mean Licensing, Registration and Enforcement (enforcement with actual teeth in it), across the entire span of all 50 States.

It's a little difficult to make a substantive difference with Registration in County A when all you have to do is drive 15 minutes and circumvent it by buying in County B.

When all 50 States are playing to the same Song Book and when buying or selling or registering or licensing in Honolulu is no different than that in Bangor, then we'll see.

For now, the idea looks sufficiently attractive to a sufficiently large number of Americans who are disgusted with the present American rate of gun-crime that it is probably going to materialize whether you like it or not and regardless of whether you fight against it or not.

It has never been tried before on the Federal level in a manner that cannot be circumvented so it is impossible to use historical or existing Local Examples to defend against its prospects for success.

The only remaining question is whether you want this done easily (with sensible, mature collaboration between citizens) or roughly (over your heads, by forcible legal means).

Hell... consider... true Gun Law Reform could be used to authoritatively define which weapons citizens are allowed to have, and, if done right, could even authorize private possession of assault weapons, large-capacity magazines, etc. - so long as they are properly registered and so long as their owners are properly licensed, thereby overriding existing State or Local law which forbids them to so many of our fellow citizens.

Think... use your imagination, fer Crissakes... that particular cup can be made to be more than half-full, on behalf of Gun Owners, rather than Gun-Grabbers... if only you have the foresight and courage to both participate and ensure that such new Standards and Laws are crafted more in your favor than in favor of the Gun-Grabbers.

Or you can remain intransigent and outside the loop - allowing your adversaries to control the conversation and message and lawmaking outcomes.

Reminds of me of the Union Folk linked to the old Hostess Bakeries fiasco... riding that cash-cow until it dropped dead from exhaustion, rather than engaging constructively.

Registration and Licensing are only PART of the picture... the OTHER and even LARGER part is a chance to define what each and every citizen is allowed to possess in any State iin the Union. And, if Gun-Owners are an integral part of that process, they end-up with far more of what they want, than if they remain aloof.

Be part of the National Conversation, rather than merely a roadblock to driven-around, via entirely Constitutional means.

Or not.

Your choice.

Or so it seams, to this observer.

It has been tried before. The 1933 NFA provided registration for certain classes of guns, like machine guns. Guess what, there are tons of unregistered machine guns out there.
The amount of civil disobedience that would result from attempted registration would be mind boggling. Canada tried to register long guns. Total and complete failure.
The only "solution" is going door to door searching and confiscating. Which is what the gun grabbers want. That will provoke civil war.

 

[The Rabbi]

Virtually no one, especially democrats, want to ban the ownership of guns altogether.

That is a patently false statement.

Agreed.

So many Gun-Grabbers are full of shit clean up to their ears, and will lie through their teeth, to get the guns.

That's why it's so important for Gun Owners to come-off looking rational and collaborative and to have a huge say in how future nationwide standards and laws unfold.

Because those standards and laws are coming.

We're down to whether Gun-Owners or Gun-Grabbers will dominate that next round of the National Conversation.

Personally, it's my hope that the Gun Owners dominate.

So your point is we need to capitulate to avoid being defeated? No, I dont think so. Gun control has been a total failure, both of policy and politically. We are winning this war. No need to surrender now.

 

[NYcarbineer]

driving on public streets is said to be a Privledge while Arms and the second amendment is a RIGHT 'Carabineer' !!

So the guy who goes to prison for armed robbery, on the day he walks out, should be able to go to a gun store and buy any gun he wants,

no questions asked?

Your 8 year old should be able to go by a handgun, no questions asked?

All guns should be unregistered and unaccounted for?

 

[NYcarbineer]

RIGHTS aren't granted in the Constitution as Rights are recognized as preexisting in the Constitution , Bill of Rights . Rights are pre existing and they are God given or what some people refer to as 'natural' Rights !!

Nonsense.

Then why are people having to fight for the right of same sex marriage?

 

[The Rabbi]

driving on public streets is said to be a Privledge while Arms and the second amendment is a RIGHT 'Carabineer' !!

So the guy who goes to prison for armed robbery, on the day he walks out, should be able to go to a gun store and buy any gun he wants,

no questions asked?

Your 8 year old should be able to go by a handgun, no questions asked?

All guns should be unregistered and unaccounted for?

Do you think people getting out of prison never buy guns illegally?
What 8 year old goes to a store and buys even a loaf of bread on his own?
Yes, all guns should be unregistered and unaccounted for except by their owners. It's called freedom.

 

[pismoe]

yeah , give them what they want , be REASONABLE Rabbi , kiss their azzez and they'll be nice to gun people . With that kinda thinking American gun owners will have the same thing that the 'english' have in England and KONDOR will be happy .

 

[Kondor3]

Virtually no one, especially democrats, want to ban the ownership of guns altogether.

That is a patently false statement.

Agreed.

So many Gun-Grabbers are full of shit clean up to their ears, and will lie through their teeth, to get the guns.

That's why it's so important for Gun Owners to come-off looking rational and collaborative and to have a huge say in how future nationwide standards and laws unfold.

Because those standards and laws are coming.

We're down to whether Gun-Owners or Gun-Grabbers will dominate that next round of the National Conversation.

Personally, it's my hope that the Gun Owners dominate.

So your point is we need to capitulate to avoid being defeated? No, I dont think so. Gun control has been a total failure, both of policy and politically. We are winning this war. No need to surrender now.

You obtusely misrepresent my actual point, and I believe you to be suffering from both shortsightedness and foolhardiness in connection with this issue.

Change is coming, over the next couple of decades.

Will you be part of that change, and will you have your hand on the steering wheel alongside others, or are you going to let others drive the outcome for you?

Based on what I'm seeing here, it seems likely that others will steer the outcome, and that you will end-up with far, far less than you otherwise might have, if you had shown the slightest foresight and imagination and collaboration with your fellow countrymen, who grow bone-achingly tired of all the gun violence and who are determined to end it.

Just remember... when that inevitable day comes, when the Nation moves towards universal gun-control, that you had your chance to steer the conversation, but flubbed it by sulking rather than participating...

A sad day indeed... one that you could have done so much to fashion in your own image while there was still time, had you only participated in good faith.

Your choice.

Your consequences.

A blind man can see this day coming, a mile away.

Get out in front of it, and shape that day more in your favor than not, while there is still time.

 

[pismoe]

as far as prisoners , do your time get out of jail and reclaim your RIGHTS , all of your Rights . And quit infecting family neighborhoods with newly released violent offenders . All the releases do is keep the parole , probation and halfway house industry that taxpayers fund going . Keep the violent in prison FOREVER . Otherwise , once the debt to society is paid , let them be FREE again with ALL their RIGHTS restored !!