A Call to Reason: Why Background Checks Don’t Work

[Kondor3]

...You claim I misprepresent what you say and then go on to prove I was correct. Your view is we should capitulate to avoid defeat...

No. My view is that Gun Rights Folk will never be entirely disenfranchised and unable to legally own firearms. But my view is also that if you do not get your ass out in front of this in a manner that reflects good faith collaboration with your fellow citizens, that the Gun Grabbers are going to do you far, far more damage that you are willing to imagine at present.

... We fight to avoid defeat...

Conceding the inevitable (tighter gun control) is not 'defeat', when you combine that concession with aggressive activism, to ensure that those controls actually re-empower some of your fellow gun enthusiasts in overly-controlled jurisdictions and when you control the conversation and shape new standards and statute to be more in your favor than not.

That's not defeat... that's aggressive realism.

...And we are winning...

You mistake pyrrhic 'holding-action' victories for long-term sustainable gains.

... Twenty years ago only cranks thought the 2A conferred an individual right. Few states had Shall Issue carry permits. The Clinton AWB was in force.
Now all of that is turned around and surveys of peoples attitudes show far more pro gun sentiment.

Oh, c'mon, one can wipe one's backside with 'public opinion surveys', for all the good it will do you, in the face of accelerating gun-related violence and domestic terrorism, and you know it as well as I do.

But, you're bound and determined to continue deluding yourself(ves) over future prospects, so, what the hell...

You've been warned.

 

[2aguy]

It has been tried before. The 1933 NFA provided registration for certain classes of guns, like machine guns. Guess what, there are tons of unregistered machine guns out there...

Indeed. 82 years ago. Long before the age of high-speed Internet and web-centric large-scale databases and a thousand-and-one other technological differences since then.

...The amount of civil disobedience that would result from attempted registration would be mind boggling...

Doubtful. Any disobedience we've seen to-date has been on the Local or State level, and, with respect to sustained efforts, most of that should wither on the vine, fairly quickly.

...Canada tried to register long guns. Total and complete failure...

Only because it was 20 years ago, and because the Canadian government did such a piss-poor job with implementation, and was too cowardly to enforce its own laws.

...The only "solution" is going door to door searching and confiscating...

Incorrect. There are several solutions. Warrant-authorized searches would likely only be utilized for circumstances where sales records indicated the presence of a weapon and in which no response or an un-believable response had been served-up in reply to official inquiries about failure to register.

...Which is what the gun grabbers want...

True.

They won't be happy until we've gone this route.

So why not get out in front of the issue, come up with a valid middle-ground that non-extremists on both sides can live with, and shut them up, so that they wither on the vine?

...That will provoke civil war.

Yes. I hear this from time to time in connection with Gun Rights activism. It grows less credible and more humorous with each passing year.

There are several solutions. Warrant-authorized searches would likely only be utilized for circumstances where sales records indicated the presence of a weapon and in which no response or an un-believable response had been served-up in reply to official inquiries about failure to register.

And your inner fascist comes out....law abiding citizens turned into criminals over night......just what the left likes....

 

[Kondor3]

the opinion on gun rights isn't going that way......more women and minorities are owning guns especially after seeing the riots and what happens when people are unarmed and the government orders the police to stand down......more women are buying guns, more minorities are buyiing guns, and more Americans support the right to have guns than ever before because according to the polls, they see guns as a self defense tool.....

And when the Gun-Grabbers spin new standards and new laws and not infringing upon existing rights, while helping to control and minimize gun-related abuses and violence?

The Sheeple are gonna eat that up, and the Gun Grabbers will end-up getting their way; far more draconian standards and laws than if you had been out in front of the process in the first place.

Tighter controls are coming... it's just a matter of when.. and the further ahead of the game you are, and the sooner you get out in front of it, the more you will be able to shape those to an outcome that you can live with, rather than one that you will hate.

But, it's the fate of The Obsessed that they don't see what's coming, until it's too late, despite friendly cautions to the contrary.

Your choice... so be it.

 

[2aguy]

...You claim I misprepresent what you say and then go on to prove I was correct. Your view is we should capitulate to avoid defeat...

No. My view is that Gun Rights Folk will never be entirely disenfranchised and unable to legally own firearms. But my view is also that if you do not get your ass out in front of this in a manner that reflects good faith collaboration with your fellow citizens, that the Gun Grabbers are going to do you far, far more damage that you are willing to imagine at present.

... We fight to avoid defeat...

Conceding the inevitable (tighter gun control) is not 'defeat', when you combine that concession with aggressive activism, to ensure that those controls actually re-empower some of your fellow gun enthusiasts in overly-controlled jurisdictions and when you control the conversation and shape new standards and statute to be more in your favor than not.

That's not defeat... that's aggressive realism.

...And we are winning...

You mistake pyrrhic 'holding-action' victories for long-term sustainable gains.

... Twenty years ago only cranks thought the 2A conferred an individual right. Few states had Shall Issue carry permits. The Clinton AWB was in force.
Now all of that is turned around and surveys of peoples attitudes show far more pro gun sentiment.

Oh, c'mon, one can wipe one's backside with 'public opinion surveys', for all the good it will do you, in the face of accelerating gun-related violence and domestic terrorism, and you know it as well as I do.

But, you're bound and determined to continue deluding yourself(ves) over future prospects, so, what the hell...

You've been warned.

Sorry....ask smokers how well they faired when the anti smokers just wanted separate smoking areas in restuarants.....how did that turn out for them.............Adam Corolla pointed out the similarities between that and the gun issue a long time ago....

 

[2aguy]

the opinion on gun rights isn't going that way......more women and minorities are owning guns especially after seeing the riots and what happens when people are unarmed and the government orders the police to stand down......more women are buying guns, more minorities are buyiing guns, and more Americans support the right to have guns than ever before because according to the polls, they see guns as a self defense tool.....

And when the Gun-Grabbers spin new standards and new laws and not infringing upon existing rights, while helping to control and minimize gun-related abuses and violence?

while helping to control and minimize gun-related abuses and violence

Not one thing they propose do that

 

[2aguy]

As an ex convict I have no issue with the government preventing me from owning a firearm. While I may not be a danger to society many other excons can not say the same.
On top of that criminal records can be expunged after some time passes. At that point gun ownership is possible.

I believe background checks are appropriate based on what I outlined above.

If you're not a danger to society why shouldnt you be able to own a gun? Why do you think you're unique in being the only convicted felon who is not a danger?

Who makes the determination what level of danger I pose? Me? The government? A doctor? That's why a blanket policy is best.
And you should look at the stats on how many convicts actually make it in society & don't become repeat offenders. I represent a very small portion.

Well...non violent felons after a period of clean living should get the right back...violent felons...depends on the crime.....for example...an old man in his 80s wanted to buy a gun for his wife...he filled out the paperwork and then was arrested...he forgot he had a misdemeanor conviction in his 20s due to a fight he had with his brother on the front lawn of his home....he is now facing a felony conviction for lying on the background check form..........

 

[Kondor3]

...And your inner fascist comes out....law abiding citizens turned into criminals over night......just what the left likes....

Calm yourself, Tvarich.

 

[Kondor3]

the opinion on gun rights isn't going that way......more women and minorities are owning guns especially after seeing the riots and what happens when people are unarmed and the government orders the police to stand down......more women are buying guns, more minorities are buyiing guns, and more Americans support the right to have guns than ever before because according to the polls, they see guns as a self defense tool.....

And when the Gun-Grabbers spin new standards and new laws and not infringing upon existing rights, while helping to control and minimize gun-related abuses and violence?

while helping to control and minimize gun-related abuses and violence

Not one thing they propose do that

Yes. So you and others have said.

Trouble is, vast numbers of your fellow countrymen believe otherwise, and continue to push to prove you wrong.

And, they are, in all probability, going to get their chance to do just that.

It will be worse, if you(r side) sulks on the sidelines and refuses to participate aggressively and sensibly to control the fallout and help shape the new environment.

 

[pismoe]

looks like Kondor is getting desperate , now he is calling everyone Tavarich !! [funny]

 

[The Rabbi]

...You claim I misprepresent what you say and then go on to prove I was correct. Your view is we should capitulate to avoid defeat...

No. My view is that Gun Rights Folk will never be entirely disenfranchised and unable to legally own firearms. But my view is also that if you do not get your ass out in front of this in a manner that reflects good faith collaboration with your fellow citizens, that the Gun Grabbers are going to do you far, far more damage that you are willing to imagine at present.

... We fight to avoid defeat...

Conceding the inevitable (tighter gun control) is not 'defeat', when you combine that concession with aggressive activism, to ensure that those controls actually re-empower some of your fellow gun enthusiasts in overly-controlled jurisdictions and when you control the conversation and shape new standards and statute to be more in your favor than not.

That's not defeat... that's aggressive realism.

...And we are winning...

You mistake pyrrhic 'holding-action' victories for long-term sustainable gains.

... Twenty years ago only cranks thought the 2A conferred an individual right. Few states had Shall Issue carry permits. The Clinton AWB was in force.
Now all of that is turned around and surveys of peoples attitudes show far more pro gun sentiment.

Oh, c'mon, one can wipe one's backside with 'public opinion surveys', for all the good it will do you, in the face of accelerating gun-related violence and domestic terrorism, and you know it as well as I do.

But, you're bound and determined to continue deluding yourself(ves) over future prospects, so, what the hell...

You've been warned.

Your point relies on somethig that has already been shown to be false. We are winning the war on gun control, not losing. You do not negotiate when you are winning. You go for total victory.

 

[Kondor3]

looks like Kondor is getting desperate , now he is calling everyone Tavarich !! [funny]

Not desperate. Bored. I'm not into name-calling nor automatic gainsay when I can avoid it. And, since some of you characters seem to think that I'm playing the part of the Leftist Gun-Grabber here, well, I figured I'd have some fun, and pour some gasoline on the flames, and serve-up a Soviet-style greeting. And you took the bait, right on time, and predictably. Thanks for the laugh on a slow Sunday morning.

 

[danielpalos]

We have a Second Amendment; why are State governors getting a free pass regarding that which is necessary to the security of a free State.

 

[The Rabbi]

looks like Kondor is getting desperate , now he is calling everyone Tavarich !! [funny]

Not desperate. Bored. I'm not into name-calling nor automatic gainsay when I can avoid it. And, since some of you characters seem to think that I'm playing the part of the Leftist Gun-Grabber here, well, I figured I'd have some fun, and pour some gasoline on the flames, and serve-up a Soviet-style greeting. And you took the bait, right on time, and predictably. Thanks for the laugh on a slow Sunday morning.

Translation: I'm getting my ass handed to me so I better pretend this was all a joke.
Yeah we get it.

 

[The Rabbi]

We have a Second Amendment; why are State governors getting a free pass regarding that which is necessary to the security of a free State.

Hunh? ANyone here speak "Moron"?

 

[Kondor3]

...Your point relies on somethig that has already been shown to be false. We are winning the war on gun control, not losing. You do not negotiate when you are winning. You go for total victory.

Like I said, Rabbi... you've been warned. Enjoy your little holding-action victories and fickle polls while you can. It's not going to last. And when the roof caves in, you'll be wishing that you had listened to that asshole on that message board back in 2015... the dumbass sonofabitch actually called it. America is not going to tolerate this level of gun violence forever.

 

[Pete7469]

Oh, c'mon, one can wipe one's backside with 'public opinion surveys', for all the good it will do you, in the face of accelerating gun-related violence and domestic terrorism, and you know it as well as I do.

But, you're bound and determined to continue deluding yourself(ves) over future prospects, so, what the hell...

You've been warned.

I've addressed this already.

You don't get criminally insane authoritarian sociopaths to back off by ceding some freedom to them. They ALWAYS come back for the rest.

We win this fight by pushing for the repeal of existing laws, and replacing them with an education focused on preventing problems. If we have to carve out a 28th Amendment forever forbidding a local, state or federal agency, office or legislature from passing policy or laws that in any way hinders a citizen of the US from acquiring, possessing, carrying or trading a firearm or ammunition, then that's what I'm all in for.

You want "compromise"? OK fine.

Limit the caliber allowed for civilian ownership not exceed the 40mm limit that the government law enforcement agencies can use against us.

That's as far as I'm wiling to go.

 

[Kondor3]

looks like Kondor is getting desperate , now he is calling everyone Tavarich !! [funny]

Not desperate. Bored. I'm not into name-calling nor automatic gainsay when I can avoid it. And, since some of you characters seem to think that I'm playing the part of the Leftist Gun-Grabber here, well, I figured I'd have some fun, and pour some gasoline on the flames, and serve-up a Soviet-style greeting. And you took the bait, right on time, and predictably. Thanks for the laugh on a slow Sunday morning.

Translation: I'm getting my ass handed to me so I better pretend this was all a joke.
Yeah we get it.

Self-declared Baseless Victory, Rabbi?

You mistake a firm continued belief in a future that includes tighter gun control, with a chuckle-worthy sidebar about using Soviet-style labels.

I stand by what I've said about that future, and the need to get out in front of that, in order to help steer the process.

 

[The Rabbi]

...Your point relies on somethig that has already been shown to be false. We are winning the war on gun control, not losing. You do not negotiate when you are winning. You go for total victory.

Like I said, Rabbi... you've been warned. Enjoy your little holding-action victories and fickle polls while you can. It's not going to last. And when the roof caves in, you'll be wishing that you had listened to that asshole on that message board back in 2015... the dumbass sonofabitch actually called it. America is not going to tolerate this level of gun violence forever.

LOL!! Yeah yeah, they're coming for me.
Go put the bong down, asshole. You're finished on this thread.

 

[The Rabbi]

looks like Kondor is getting desperate , now he is calling everyone Tavarich !! [funny]

Not desperate. Bored. I'm not into name-calling nor automatic gainsay when I can avoid it. And, since some of you characters seem to think that I'm playing the part of the Leftist Gun-Grabber here, well, I figured I'd have some fun, and pour some gasoline on the flames, and serve-up a Soviet-style greeting. And you took the bait, right on time, and predictably. Thanks for the laugh on a slow Sunday morning.

Translation: I'm getting my ass handed to me so I better pretend this was all a joke.
Yeah we get it.

Self-declared Baseless Victory, Rabbi?

You mistake a firm continued belief in a future that includes tighter gun control, with a chuckle-worthy sidebar about using Soviet-style labels.

I stand by what I've said about that future, and the need to get out in front of that, in order to help steer the process.

States are continuing to enact Shall Carry legislation. More states have adopted "Constitiutional Carry" (i.e. no permit required). The Supreme Court has affirmed both an individual right and that the states are bound by it. And you call that "baseless victory"??
I'd say you're out of touch with reality here.

 

[Pete7469]

...Your point relies on somethig that has already been shown to be false. We are winning the war on gun control, not losing. You do not negotiate when you are winning. You go for total victory.

Like I said, Rabbi... you've been warned. Enjoy your little holding-action victories and fickle polls while you can. It's not going to last. And when the roof caves in, you'll be wishing that you had listened to that asshole on that message board back in 2015... the dumbass sonofabitch actually called it. America is not going to tolerate this level of gun violence forever.

They seem to tolerate much worse in Mexico, where they did exactly what you want us to do.

Submit to "reasonable" gun laws.

Fortunately most people currently reject that idea. Hold your breath while waiting for that "told ya so" moment.