A Call to Reason: Why Background Checks Don’t Work

[danielpalos]

We have a Second Amendment; why are State governors getting a free pass regarding that which is necessary to the security of a free State.

Hunh? ANyone here speak "Moron"?

nothing but ad hominems for your Cause; rabbi. Would a True Judean act that way.

 

[Kondor3]

Oh, c'mon, one can wipe one's backside with 'public opinion surveys', for all the good it will do you, in the face of accelerating gun-related violence and domestic terrorism, and you know it as well as I do.

But, you're bound and determined to continue deluding yourself(ves) over future prospects, so, what the hell...

You've been warned.

I've addressed this already.

You don't get criminally insane authoritarian sociopaths to back off by ceding some freedom to them. They ALWAYS come back for the rest.

We win this fight by pushing for the repeal of existing laws, and replacing them with an education focused on preventing problems. If we have to carve out a 28th Amendment forever forbidding a local, state or federal agency, office or legislature from passing policy or laws that in any way hinders a citizen of the US from acquiring, possessing, carrying or trading a firearm or ammunition, then that's what I'm all in for.

You want "compromise"? OK fine.

Limit the caliber allowed for civilian ownership not exceed the 40mm limit that the government law enforcement agencies can use against us.

That's as far as I'm wiling to go.

Your problem is that you perceive everyone who is in favor of better gun controls, to be a 'criminally insane authoritarian sociopath'.

On the contrary, most are normal people... average citizens... parents and grandparents... who want our high gun-related crime rate put back under control... and who will eventually buy into Gun Grabber's own worst arguments and solutions, if you don't get out in front of this damned thing.

When you regain a perspective that most folks merely want an end to the gun violence rather than your enemies and enemies of the US Constitution, you will be better positioned to participate in any future nationwide reform process.

I suggest you work on it... you don't have as much time as you think.. regardless of which party is in power at any given point in time.

 

[danielpalos]

looks like Kondor is getting desperate , now he is calling everyone Tavarich !! [funny]

Not desperate. Bored. I'm not into name-calling nor automatic gainsay when I can avoid it. And, since some of you characters seem to think that I'm playing the part of the Leftist Gun-Grabber here, well, I figured I'd have some fun, and pour some gasoline on the flames, and serve-up a Soviet-style greeting. And you took the bait, right on time, and predictably. Thanks for the laugh on a slow Sunday morning.

Translation: I'm getting my ass handed to me so I better pretend this was all a joke.
Yeah we get it.

Self-declared Baseless Victory, Rabbi?

You mistake a firm continued belief in a future that includes tighter gun control, with a chuckle-worthy sidebar about using Soviet-style labels.

I stand by what I've said about that future, and the need to get out in front of that, in order to help steer the process.

States are continuing to enact Shall Carry legislation. More states have adopted "Constitiutional Carry" (i.e. no permit required). The Supreme Court has affirmed both an individual right and that the states are bound by it. And you call that "baseless victory"??
I'd say you're out of touch with reality here.

Here is a reality of States' sovereign rights: Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

 

[2aguy]

the opinion on gun rights isn't going that way......more women and minorities are owning guns especially after seeing the riots and what happens when people are unarmed and the government orders the police to stand down......more women are buying guns, more minorities are buyiing guns, and more Americans support the right to have guns than ever before because according to the polls, they see guns as a self defense tool.....

And when the Gun-Grabbers spin new standards and new laws and not infringing upon existing rights, while helping to control and minimize gun-related abuses and violence?

while helping to control and minimize gun-related abuses and violence

Not one thing they propose do that

Yes. So you and others have said.

Trouble is, vast numbers of your fellow countrymen believe otherwise, and continue to push to prove you wrong.

And, they are, in all probability, going to get their chance to do just that.

It will be worse, if you(r side) sulks on the sidelines and refuses to participate aggressively and sensibly to control the fallout and help shape the new environment.

Tell that to smokers....the anti smokers just wanted to have no smoking sections in Restaurants...nothing more, common sense, doesn't infringe on anyones rights......do it or they will do worse.....

Now...you can't smoke in restaurants, bars or buildings, must smoke outside...except in some places where you can't smoke on the open air beaches or parks, and can't smoke in your own home.......

Yeah.....just give them the one thing and they will leave you alone...

Not one more gun, bullet or piece of equipment...we know what they want, we know how they plan to get there....so fuck them.....

 

[Kondor3]

...Tell that to smokers....the anti smokers just wanted to have no smoking sections in Restaurants...nothing more, common sense, doesn't infringe on anyones rights......do it or they will do worse..... Now...you can't smoke in restaurants, bars or buildings, must smoke outside...except in some places where you can't smoke on the open air beaches or parks, and can't smoke in your own home....... Yeah.....just give them the one thing and they will leave you alone... Not one more gun, bullet or piece of equipment...we know what they want, we know how they plan to get there....so fuck them.....

I repeat... it is coming... it's just a matter of when... and whether you will have the sense to participate, or leave the Gun Grabbers to control the conversation and the outcome.

 

[2aguy]

Oh, c'mon, one can wipe one's backside with 'public opinion surveys', for all the good it will do you, in the face of accelerating gun-related violence and domestic terrorism, and you know it as well as I do.

But, you're bound and determined to continue deluding yourself(ves) over future prospects, so, what the hell...

You've been warned.

I've addressed this already.

You don't get criminally insane authoritarian sociopaths to back off by ceding some freedom to them. They ALWAYS come back for the rest.

We win this fight by pushing for the repeal of existing laws, and replacing them with an education focused on preventing problems. If we have to carve out a 28th Amendment forever forbidding a local, state or federal agency, office or legislature from passing policy or laws that in any way hinders a citizen of the US from acquiring, possessing, carrying or trading a firearm or ammunition, then that's what I'm all in for.

You want "compromise"? OK fine.

Limit the caliber allowed for civilian ownership not exceed the 40mm limit that the government law enforcement agencies can use against us.

That's as far as I'm wiling to go.

Your problem is that you perceive everyone who is in favor of better gun controls, to be a 'criminally insane authoritarian sociopath'.

On the contrary, most are normal people... average citizens... parents and grandparents... who want our high gun-related crime rate put back under control... and who will eventually buy into Gun Grabber's own worst arguments and solutions, if you don't get out in front of this damned thing.

When you regain a perspective that most folks merely want an end to the gun violence rather than your enemies and enemies of the US Constitution, you will be better positioned to participate in any future nationwide reform process.

I suggest you work on it... you don't have as much time as you think.. regardless of which party is in power at any given point in time.

No...most people are simply uninformed about the issue and the truth about how these laws don't work.....they are never asked the truth in poll questions, never shown that background checks, registration and magazine limits do not work, and then when they are asked, they answer from a position of ignorance....

then you have the actual gun grabbers who use that ignorance to slowly get rid of guns, ammo and equipment....

And the normal people want to end gun violence...but not one thing you advocate does that...in fact...it makes more victims for criminals...as Britain showed........they had a low gun murder rate long before they banned guns...and when they finally banned guns (see, we understand history) their violent crime rate sky rocketed as criminals no longer had to fear their victims.....

 

[2aguy]

...Tell that to smokers....the anti smokers just wanted to have no smoking sections in Restaurants...nothing more, common sense, doesn't infringe on anyones rights......do it or they will do worse..... Now...you can't smoke in restaurants, bars or buildings, must smoke outside...except in some places where you can't smoke on the open air beaches or parks, and can't smoke in your own home....... Yeah.....just give them the one thing and they will leave you alone... Not one more gun, bullet or piece of equipment...we know what they want, we know how they plan to get there....so fuck them.....

I repeat... it is coming... it's just a matter of when... and whether you will have the sense to participate, or leave the Gun Grabbers to control the conversation and the outcome.

Try selling that to the smokers.......

 

[2aguy]

looks like Kondor is getting desperate , now he is calling everyone Tavarich !! [funny]

Not desperate. Bored. I'm not into name-calling nor automatic gainsay when I can avoid it. And, since some of you characters seem to think that I'm playing the part of the Leftist Gun-Grabber here, well, I figured I'd have some fun, and pour some gasoline on the flames, and serve-up a Soviet-style greeting. And you took the bait, right on time, and predictably. Thanks for the laugh on a slow Sunday morning.

Translation: I'm getting my ass handed to me so I better pretend this was all a joke.
Yeah we get it.

Self-declared Baseless Victory, Rabbi?

You mistake a firm continued belief in a future that includes tighter gun control, with a chuckle-worthy sidebar about using Soviet-style labels.

I stand by what I've said about that future, and the need to get out in front of that, in order to help steer the process.

States are continuing to enact Shall Carry legislation. More states have adopted "Constitiutional Carry" (i.e. no permit required). The Supreme Court has affirmed both an individual right and that the states are bound by it. And you call that "baseless victory"??
I'd say you're out of touch with reality here.

This is why 2016 is so important.....they will use the courts...that is their easiest route to overturning Heller and Mcdonald, and if hillary is elected or any other gun grabbing democrat, with a majority in the senate, they will have more than one chance in that term to put gun grabbing judges on the Supreme Court....

 

[The Rabbi]

Oh, c'mon, one can wipe one's backside with 'public opinion surveys', for all the good it will do you, in the face of accelerating gun-related violence and domestic terrorism, and you know it as well as I do.

But, you're bound and determined to continue deluding yourself(ves) over future prospects, so, what the hell...

You've been warned.

I've addressed this already.

You don't get criminally insane authoritarian sociopaths to back off by ceding some freedom to them. They ALWAYS come back for the rest.

We win this fight by pushing for the repeal of existing laws, and replacing them with an education focused on preventing problems. If we have to carve out a 28th Amendment forever forbidding a local, state or federal agency, office or legislature from passing policy or laws that in any way hinders a citizen of the US from acquiring, possessing, carrying or trading a firearm or ammunition, then that's what I'm all in for.

You want "compromise"? OK fine.

Limit the caliber allowed for civilian ownership not exceed the 40mm limit that the government law enforcement agencies can use against us.

That's as far as I'm wiling to go.

Your problem is that you perceive everyone who is in favor of better gun controls, to be a 'criminally insane authoritarian sociopath'.

On the contrary, most are normal people... average citizens... parents and grandparents... who want our high gun-related crime rate put back under control... and who will eventually buy into Gun Grabber's own worst arguments and solutions, if you don't get out in front of this damned thing.

When you regain a perspective that most folks merely want an end to the gun violence rather than your enemies and enemies of the US Constitution, you will be better positioned to participate in any future nationwide reform process.

I suggest you work on it... you don't have as much time as you think.. regardless of which party is in power at any given point in time.

People who believe "common sense gun laws" would prevent crime are misguided misinformed low information people.

 

[The Rabbi]

...Tell that to smokers....the anti smokers just wanted to have no smoking sections in Restaurants...nothing more, common sense, doesn't infringe on anyones rights......do it or they will do worse..... Now...you can't smoke in restaurants, bars or buildings, must smoke outside...except in some places where you can't smoke on the open air beaches or parks, and can't smoke in your own home....... Yeah.....just give them the one thing and they will leave you alone... Not one more gun, bullet or piece of equipment...we know what they want, we know how they plan to get there....so fuck them.....

I repeat... it is coming... it's just a matter of when... and whether you will have the sense to participate, or leave the Gun Grabbers to control the conversation and the outcome.

What evidence do you have for "it is coming"? Please cite evidence. Everywhere else gun control is a losing issue.

 

[Pete7469]

Your problem is that you perceive everyone who is in favor of better gun controls, to be a 'criminally insane authoritarian sociopath'.

On the contrary, most are normal people... average citizens... parents and grandparents... who want our high gun-related crime rate put back under control... and who will eventually buy into Gun Grabber's own worst arguments and solutions, if you don't get out in front of this damned thing.

When you regain a perspective that most folks merely want an end to the gun violence rather than your enemies and enemies of the US Constitution,you will be better positioned to participate in any future nationwide reform process.

I suggest you work on it... you don't have as much time as you think.. regardless of which party is in power at any given point in time.

Just to be clear, I see your point, I just disagree with it vehemently. I don't believe you're a 'criminally insane authoritarian sociopath', but I do believe Diane Fienslime, George Soros, Mikhail Bloomberg Et Al are 'criminally insane authoritarian sociopaths'. They will not cede their agenda if gun owners cede anything to them. Their interest isn't a safer society, it is a subjugated society that can not defend itself.

The point everyone here who has disagreed with you is that even though normal people want less gun crime, WE ALL DO, laws will not stop it. Furthermore some laws will aggravate it, and I suspect the 'criminally insane authoritarian sociopaths' know this.

It's a tactic of liberalism, create a solution to a problem that either doesn't fix it or makes it worse through some "compromise" and then come back later and "solve" the problem with more laws. It's a vicious cycle.

I totally reject your premise that we "will be better positioned to participate in any future nationwide reform process" by giving in to unacceptable demands and allowing ineffective and counterproductive laws to be passed. These laws will fail, and we will be in a position of ceding more rights, for nothing but tyranny in return.

We have the momentum, we have the superior position. If we maintain the good PR that we've had, we will roll back regressive laws, not just regarding guns either.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Virtually no one, especially democrats, want to ban the ownership of guns altogether.

That is a patently false statement.

I agree that they exist. The point I am making is that they are a tiny insignificant minority that no one in power takes seriously. No democrats in office have taken the position of banning guns altogether. You people live in a fantasy world. You believe bullshit because it validates your feelings about the leftwing.

Um did you even watch the video? She is talking about assault weapons. Not guns in general, Also, your example is from fucking 1995.

She is talking about all guns and Diane Feinstein is a Democrat in office. That was your criteria. As usual, you were wrong.

 

[pismoe]

...Tell that to smokers....the anti smokers just wanted to have no smoking sections in Restaurants...nothing more, common sense, doesn't infringe on anyones rights......do it or they will do worse..... Now...you can't smoke in restaurants, bars or buildings, must smoke outside...except in some places where you can't smoke on the open air beaches or parks, and can't smoke in your own home....... Yeah.....just give them the one thing and they will leave you alone... Not one more gun, bullet or piece of equipment...we know what they want, we know how they plan to get there....so fuck them.....

I repeat... it is coming... it's just a matter of when... and whether you will have the sense to participate, or leave the Gun Grabbers to control the conversation and the outcome.

Try selling that to the smokers.......

and not only Smokers but now the lib-dems are going after Electronic Cigarettes . And Electronic cigs are no problem for anyone , they are sorta like the Smart Guns that people like Kondor want . Course when people switch to the electronic cigs or the Smart Guns the 'lib dems' just go after them . Yep , don't give the prohibitionists one inch because there is no reasoning with them !! Besides that , who wants to negotiate away RIGHTS just to be seen as reasonable . Best to have RIGHTS taken away by tyrannical power because then its easy to see and identify who the Enemy is .

 

[The Rabbi]

Virtually no one, especially democrats, want to ban the ownership of guns altogether.

That is a patently false statement.

I agree that they exist. The point I am making is that they are a tiny insignificant minority that no one in power takes seriously. No democrats in office have taken the position of banning guns altogether. You people live in a fantasy world. You believe bullshit because it validates your feelings about the leftwing.

Um did you even watch the video? She is talking about assault weapons. Not guns in general, Also, your example is from fucking 1995.

She is talking about all guns and Diane Feinstein is a Democrat in office. That was your criteria. As usual, you were wrong.

Billy is simply the most failed poster on this site. Worse than Truthmatters.

 

[Kondor3]

Oh, c'mon, one can wipe one's backside with 'public opinion surveys', for all the good it will do you, in the face of accelerating gun-related violence and domestic terrorism, and you know it as well as I do.

But, you're bound and determined to continue deluding yourself(ves) over future prospects, so, what the hell...

You've been warned.

I've addressed this already.

You don't get criminally insane authoritarian sociopaths to back off by ceding some freedom to them. They ALWAYS come back for the rest.

We win this fight by pushing for the repeal of existing laws, and replacing them with an education focused on preventing problems. If we have to carve out a 28th Amendment forever forbidding a local, state or federal agency, office or legislature from passing policy or laws that in any way hinders a citizen of the US from acquiring, possessing, carrying or trading a firearm or ammunition, then that's what I'm all in for.

You want "compromise"? OK fine.

Limit the caliber allowed for civilian ownership not exceed the 40mm limit that the government law enforcement agencies can use against us.

That's as far as I'm wiling to go.

Your problem is that you perceive everyone who is in favor of better gun controls, to be a 'criminally insane authoritarian sociopath'.

On the contrary, most are normal people... average citizens... parents and grandparents... who want our high gun-related crime rate put back under control... and who will eventually buy into Gun Grabber's own worst arguments and solutions, if you don't get out in front of this damned thing.

When you regain a perspective that most folks merely want an end to the gun violence rather than your enemies and enemies of the US Constitution, you will be better positioned to participate in any future nationwide reform process.

I suggest you work on it... you don't have as much time as you think.. regardless of which party is in power at any given point in time.

People who believe "common sense gun laws" would prevent crime are misguided misinformed low information people.

You are entitled to your opinion.

It has the virtue of never having been tried before on a nationwide level in this country in the modern information age.

One way or another, we are likely to find out whether it works, sometime in the not-too-distant future.

It then becomes a question of how draconian the new 'trial environment' becomes.

People who take-up seats at the discussion table have a better chance of steering than those remaining outside the collaborative loop.

But, if folks insist upon having that concept reinforced for them in a practical sense, once it becomes too late to exert substantive influence, well...

 

[Kondor3]

...And Electronic cigs are no problem for anyone , they are sorta like the Smart Guns that people like Kondor want ..

I do? That's news to me. Feel free to point-out where I've served-up any such call or advocacy. That's not even a logical extension of my own articulated position. Fail.

...don't give the prohibitionists one inch because there is no reasoning with them...

Yeah, as if reasoning with you (your side) has borne any practical results acceptable to both sides, to date, right?

Oh, and, by the way, there are Gun-Rights Folk, and Gun-Grabber Folk, and the vast majority of Americans whom we can call Everybody Else, in this context.

But, if you insist upon not moving forward with the rest of the Nation, towards a safer environment which continues to uphold the rights of gun ownership, well, that's your decision - just don't come back to the rest of us, wearing a hair-shirt and tearing your hair and pouring earth on your head and wailing and gnashing your teeth, when new and more draconian measures eventually materialize and are made to stick - more draconian because your side didn't have the sense to come in out of the rain and work it out with Everybody Else.

Tighter controls are coming... in 2016, or 2020, or 2024, or whatever, but sometime in the not-too-distant future. Gun violence at these levels is no longer acceptable to your fellow countrymen, and, of course, the US Constitution is not a Suicide Pact... it is a living, breathing and flexible document, suitable to change as the times change.

Don't get left behind... ensure that you-and-yours have a credible and collaborative place in those national conversations, because you're sure to lose far more by sulking than you are by actively and collaboratively participating.

But... I'm repeating myself now... so... thanks for the time... feel free to continue throwing rocks, if that makes you feel any better or somehow lessens the signal importance of a Call to Participate.

 

[Pete7469]

You are entitled to your opinion.

It has the virtue of never having been tried before on a nationwide level in this country in the modern information age.

One way or another, we are likely to find out whether it works, sometime in the not-too-distant future.

It then becomes a question of how draconian the new 'trial environment' becomes.

People who take-up seats at the discussion table have a better chance of steering than those remaining outside the collaborative loop.

But, if folks insist upon having that concept reinforced for them in a practical sense, once it becomes too late to exert substantive influence, well...

I'm afraid your ideas have been tried before. The NRA was once the only game in town for RKBA lobbying. They compromised on the GCA of 68, 86 and the AWB of 94. After that they lost members. GOA and other groups staunchly opposed to further intrusion started getting into the deep pool of contributions and the NRA slowly reversed itself. When that elitist pig RINO G. H. W. Bush renounced his membership after the NRA condemned the Waco TX siege and the NRA reasserted that they believed it was a contemptible act their numbers stabilized.

To this day many of my fellow travelers call the NRA "Negotiate Rights Away". I'm a life member of NRA and other organizations. It was through a determined effort to marginalize the Fudds who believe their .270's are safe, "just give the CIAS (criminally insane authoritarian sociopaths) the M16's and they'll go away", that the NRA is for now a "no compromise" RKBA lobby.

Indeed not compromising when you are right "has the virtue of never having been tried before on a nationwide level in this country in the modern information age." I am fully confident that it will work.

 

[pismoe]

looks like I and others know how your ilk works Kondor , good to have it out in the open , to be able to read your words and thinking .
Thank you , both you Bulldog and a few others !!

 

[Pete7469]

Yeah, as if reasoning with you (your side) has borne any practical results acceptable to both sides, to date, right?

Oh, and, by the way, there are Gun-Rights Folk, and Gun-Grabber Folk, and the vast majority of Americans whom we can call Everybody Else, in this context.

But, if you insist upon not moving forward with the rest of the Nation, towards a safer environment which continues to uphold the rights of gun ownership, well, that's your decision - just don't come back to the rest of us, wearing a hair-shirt and tearing your hair and pouring earth on your head and wailing and gnashing your teeth, when new and more draconian measures eventually materialize and are made to stick - more draconian because your side didn't have the sense to come in out of the rain and work it out with Everybody Else.

Tighter controls are coming... in 2016, or 2020, or 2024, or whatever, but sometime in the not-too-distant future. Gun violence at these levels is no longer acceptable to your fellow countrymen, and, of course, the US Constitution is not a Suicide Pact... it is a living, breathing and flexible document, suitable to change as the times change.

Don't get left behind... ensure that you-and-yours have a credible and collaborative place in those national conversations, because you're sure to lose far more by sulking than you are by actively and collaboratively participating.

But... I'm repeating myself now... so... thanks for the time... feel free to continue throwing rocks, if that makes you feel any better or somehow lessens the signal importance of a Call to Participate.

Why do you equate yourself with this "Everybody Else" group that doesn't seem to exist? If tighter controls do come, it will be because people like you acquiesce to tyranny. You implore us to surrender with you, when we see victory on the horizon.

Sorry, but I'd rather be dead than surrender to these sociopaths. The world they will create is not worth living in.

“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
― Samuel Adams

 

[The Rabbi]

Oh, c'mon, one can wipe one's backside with 'public opinion surveys', for all the good it will do you, in the face of accelerating gun-related violence and domestic terrorism, and you know it as well as I do.

But, you're bound and determined to continue deluding yourself(ves) over future prospects, so, what the hell...

You've been warned.

I've addressed this already.

You don't get criminally insane authoritarian sociopaths to back off by ceding some freedom to them. They ALWAYS come back for the rest.

We win this fight by pushing for the repeal of existing laws, and replacing them with an education focused on preventing problems. If we have to carve out a 28th Amendment forever forbidding a local, state or federal agency, office or legislature from passing policy or laws that in any way hinders a citizen of the US from acquiring, possessing, carrying or trading a firearm or ammunition, then that's what I'm all in for.

You want "compromise"? OK fine.

Limit the caliber allowed for civilian ownership not exceed the 40mm limit that the government law enforcement agencies can use against us.

That's as far as I'm wiling to go.

Your problem is that you perceive everyone who is in favor of better gun controls, to be a 'criminally insane authoritarian sociopath'.

On the contrary, most are normal people... average citizens... parents and grandparents... who want our high gun-related crime rate put back under control... and who will eventually buy into Gun Grabber's own worst arguments and solutions, if you don't get out in front of this damned thing.

When you regain a perspective that most folks merely want an end to the gun violence rather than your enemies and enemies of the US Constitution, you will be better positioned to participate in any future nationwide reform process.

I suggest you work on it... you don't have as much time as you think.. regardless of which party is in power at any given point in time.

People who believe "common sense gun laws" would prevent crime are misguided misinformed low information people.

You are entitled to your opinion.

It has the virtue of never having been tried before on a nationwide level in this country in the modern information age.

One way or another, we are likely to find out whether it works, sometime in the not-too-distant future.

It then becomes a question of how draconian the new 'trial environment' becomes.

People who take-up seats at the discussion table have a better chance of steering than those remaining outside the collaborative loop.

But, if folks insist upon having that concept reinforced for them in a practical sense, once it becomes too late to exert substantive influence, well...

You keep making these assertions based on nothing. The truth is that on the national level gun control is a failure. After Sandy Hook the federal govt failed to get ANY new regulations passed. There is no reason to think somehow its going to be different later.