A Little Learning For Our Pals Voting Democrat

[Bleipriester]

What do you think happens in other countries........notably Bolshevik Russia and Nazi Germany, other Leftist havens?

When we include America up until recent Democrat regimes, where do you suppose individuals had better lives?

Or, the case of Finland vs Estonia as the OP mentions.

Life in the Soviet Union was certainly very hard. Hard work, little comfort. No comparison to the colorful life of most in the US. That includes also the current US. Nazi Germany, a market economy, was certainly a good place to live in terms of wealth, though. It was a technologically progressive country, the first to start a regular TV program in 1935, the first and only country till today to install real-time video call phone booths (1938). The first to start a jet plane. The first computer. Ect. If not for the fascism and political pressure, I would say it was one of the best places at that time. It would be the US, Germany, France and Great Britain.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Life in the Soviet Union was certainly very hard. Hard work, little comfort. No comparison to the colorful life of most in the US. That includes also the current US. Nazi Germany, a market economy, was certainly a good place to live in terms of wealth, though. It was a technologically progressive country, the first to start a regular TV program in 1935, the first and only country till today to install real-time video call phone booths (1938). The first to start a jet plane. The first computer. Ect. If not for the fascism and political pressure, I would say it was one of the best places at that time. It would be the US, Germany, France and Great Britain.

Clearly you haven't the tiniest clue of what life was like for non-party members in either Nazi Germany nor Communist Russia.

I knew a guy like you....we used to say "he collected bottles."

Nice way to say alcoholic.

Your posts are remarkablly simmilar to his.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Life in the Soviet Union was certainly very hard. Hard work, little comfort. No comparison to the colorful life of most in the US. That includes also the current US. Nazi Germany, a market economy, was certainly a good place to live in terms of wealth, though. It was a technologically progressive country, the first to start a regular TV program in 1935, the first and only country till today to install real-time video call phone booths (1938). The first to start a jet plane. The first computer. Ect. If not for the fascism and political pressure, I would say it was one of the best places at that time. It would be the US, Germany, France and Great Britain.

"Why Nazism Was Socialism and Why Socialism Is Totalitarian
Why Nazism Was Socialism and Why Socialism Is Totalitarian | George Reisman


".... Nazi Germany was a socialist state, not a capitalist one. And ... socialism, understood as an economic system based on government ownership of the means of production, positively requires a totalitarian dictatorship.

... the word "Nazi" was an abbreviation for "der Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiters Partei — in English translation: the National Socialist German Workers' Party ... what should one expect the economic system of a country ruled by a party with "socialist" in its name to be but socialism?


It is far more common to believe that it represented a form of capitalism, which is what the Communists and all other Marxists have claimed. The basis of the claim that Nazi Germany was capitalist was the fact that most industries in Nazi Germany appeared to be left in private hands.


What Mises identified was that private ownership of the means of production existed in name only under the Nazis …The position of the alleged private owners, Mises showed, was reduced essentially to that of government pensioners."

 

[Bleipriester]

Clearly you haven't the tiniest clue of what life was like for non-party members in either Nazi Germany nor Communist Russia.

I knew a guy like you....we used to say "he collected bottles."

Nice way to say alcoholic.

Your posts are remarkablly simmilar to his.

You apparently didn´t read it completely.

If not for the fascism and political pressure, I would say it was one of the best places at that time.

And by the way, the racism in the US at the time, and the decades of paranoid commie witch hunt in the US, shouldn´t be excluded. Wasn´t it this way that you would have been labeled a communist and excluded from government jobs when you had the tiniest criticism? That your social life was basically over. Similar to today, just the other way round?

 

[Bleipriester]

"Why Nazism Was Socialism and Why Socialism Is Totalitarian
Why Nazism Was Socialism and Why Socialism Is Totalitarian | George Reisman


".... Nazi Germany was a socialist state, not a capitalist one. And ... socialism, understood as an economic system based on government ownership of the means of production, positively requires a totalitarian dictatorship.

... the word "Nazi" was an abbreviation for "der Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiters Partei — in English translation: the National Socialist German Workers' Party ... what should one expect the economic system of a country ruled by a party with "socialist" in its name to be but socialism?


It is far more common to believe that it represented a form of capitalism, which is what the Communists and all other Marxists have claimed. The basis of the claim that Nazi Germany was capitalist was the fact that most industries in Nazi Germany appeared to be left in private hands.


What Mises identified was that private ownership of the means of production existed in name only under the Nazis …The position of the alleged private owners, Mises showed, was reduced essentially to that of government pensioners."

Pure BS.

 

[PoliticalChic]

You apparently didn´t read it completely.

If not for the fascism and political pressure, I would say it was one of the best places at that time.

And by the way, the racism in the US at the time, and the decades of paranoid commie witch hunt in the US, shouldn´t be excluded. Wasn´t it this way that you would have been labeled a communist and excluded from government jobs when you had the tiniest criticism? That your social life was basically over. Similar to today, just the other way round?

"paranoid commie witch hunt"


Are you this oblivious, or simply a poor liar?


“On September 2, 1939, the day after the outbreak of war in Europe, Whittaker Chambers had told much of what he knew about Soviet espionage in the United States to Adolph Berle, Assistant Secretary of State and President’s Roosevelt’s advisor on internal security. Immediately afterwards, Berle drew up a memorandum for the President which listed Alger Hiss, Harry Dexter White and the other leading communists for whom Chambers acted as courier. One was a leading presidential aide, Lauchlin Currie….Roosevelt, however, was not interested. He seems to have dismissed the whole idea of espionage rings within his administration as absurd.” ‘The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archives, the History of the KGB,” by Christopher Andrew and Vasili Mitrokhin.p.107


As Hitler marched into Poland, Whittaker Chambers arranged a private meeting with Adolf Berle, President Roosevelt’s assistant Sec’y of State. Chambers detailed the Communist espionage network, naming at least two dozen Soviet spies in Roosevelt’s administration, including Alger Hiss. Berle reported this to Roosevelt, who laughed, and told Berle to go f--- himself.
Arthur Herman, Joseph McCarthy: Reexaming the Life and Legacy of America’s Most Hated Senator, p. 60.

a. No action was taken, and in fact, Roosevelt promoted Hiss. Almost a decade later, Chambers was called before the HUAC and named Hiss as a Soviet agent. Hiss sued Chambers, at which time Chambers presented “… four notes in Alger Hiss's handwriting, sixty-five typewritten copies of State Department documents and five strips of microfilm, some of which contained photographs of State Department documents. The press came to call these the"PumpkinPapers" Whittaker Chambers - Wikipedia)

 

[PoliticalChic]

Pure BS.

Clearly you are one of those who imbibed the Lefts propaganda and now can't admit to yourself that you are simply one of the "useful idiots."

 

[Bleipriester]

"paranoid commie witch hunt"


Are you this oblivious, or simply a poor liar?


“On September 2, 1939, the day after the outbreak of war in Europe, Whittaker Chambers had told much of what he knew about Soviet espionage in the United States to Adolph Berle, Assistant Secretary of State and President’s Roosevelt’s advisor on internal security. Immediately afterwards, Berle drew up a memorandum for the President which listed Alger Hiss, Harry Dexter White and the other leading communists for whom Chambers acted as courier. One was a leading presidential aide, Lauchlin Currie….Roosevelt, however, was not interested. He seems to have dismissed the whole idea of espionage rings within his administration as absurd.” ‘The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archives, the History of the KGB,” by Christopher Andrew and Vasili Mitrokhin.p.107


As Hitler marched into Poland, Whittaker Chambers arranged a private meeting with Adolf Berle, President Roosevelt’s assistant Sec’y of State. Chambers detailed the Communist espionage network, naming at least two dozen Soviet spies in Roosevelt’s administration, including Alger Hiss. Berle reported this to Roosevelt, who laughed, and told Berle to go f--- himself.
Arthur Herman, Joseph McCarthy: Reexaming the Life and Legacy of America’s Most Hated Senator, p. 60.

a. No action was taken, and in fact, Roosevelt promoted Hiss. Almost a decade later, Chambers was called before the HUAC and named Hiss as a Soviet agent. Hiss sued Chambers, at which time Chambers presented “… four notes in Alger Hiss's handwriting, sixty-five typewritten copies of State Department documents and five strips of microfilm, some of which contained photographs of State Department documents. The press came to call these the"PumpkinPapers" Whittaker Chambers - Wikipedia)

Sure, Soviet espionage existed. Doesn´t mean you are a communist when you disagree with some government action. Like today you don´t need to be a nazi to call for border security.

 

[Bleipriester]

Clearly you are one of those who imbibed the Lefts propaganda and now can't admit to yourself that you are simply one of the "useful idiots."

Please don´t put me in a corner just because we disagree on something. That´s the witch hunt I mentioned.
The term Socialism in the NS doesn´t mean the same as it does in regular Socialism. It was rather societal with government provided worker´s holidays, ect. In fact the economy supported Hitler in the politically - and at times economically - troubled "Weimar Republic". It was their choice over the communists, that also gained strength.

The German industrialists who aided and abetted the Nazi regime

“The ghosts of the Third Reich still haunt” many German businesses, David de Jong argues

www.economist.com

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

 

[PoliticalChic]

Sure, Soviet espionage existed. Doesn´t mean you are a communist when you disagree with some government action. Like today you don´t need to be a nazi to call for border security.

I never said that. But I will continue to push you to retreat still further:

Left wing historians writings filled with righteous indignation and emotional abhorrence toward Joseph McCarthy and cool aloofness toward Joseph Stalin

…claim that McCarthyism was the most disgraceful episode in twentieth-century American life, but show a fading memory of the Communist threat.

Those who ‘suffered’ were chiefly Communists…hiding behind the smokescreen that they were innocent liberals falsely accused.

The thrust is that it was McCarthyism, more than Soviet espionage or Communism infiltration of government, that was – in the words of the October 23, 1998, NYTimes editorial, “a lethal threat to American democracy.” This, in the same editorial that admitted that the evidence against Julius Rosenberg, and “most likely” Alger Hiss, was clear.

The deciphered Venona messages document the CPUSA’s integral role in the Soviet Union’s massive espionage against the US.

The federally funded “National History Standards” for elementary schools were released in 1994, cemented a revisionist view of American Communism for schoolteachers, as the guide mentions McCarthy over twenty times, while Edison and the Wright Brothers got no mention. “It …repeatedly condemns McCarthyism as an unmitigated evil…[but] the Hiss-Chambers and Rosenberg cases, the two dominant controversies of the anticommunist era, are described with bland, neutral language crafted to keep from implying guilt while not being quite so foolhardy as to actually assert innocence..’National Standards’…implies that the cases are part and parcel of the McCartyite horror.” From “In Denial,” by Haynes and Klehr, pg. 151

Revisionist views are found, for example, in the work of Ellen Wolf Schrecker, Ph.D., a professor of American history at Yeshiva University, who states “ whatever threat to the United States such espionage [by US citizens working for Soviet intelligence] may have posed, it was gone by the time the main justification for the McCarthy-era purges.” The revisionists claim that the greater sin was not the betrayal of the country by American Communists, but anticommunists using that betrayal as “a rationalization for the most widespread and the longest-lasting episode of political repression in our nation’s history.”

The Professor’s view is based on the relatively small number of prosecutions and convictions, but this overlooks the objectives of the FBI, which weighed exposing sources vs. prosecutions. The aim in counterespionage is always to disrupt the cells and prosecutions are secondary. The ongoing decryption of the Venona cables severely damaged and disruptions of Soviet espionage rings (over 300 Soviet agents active in the US Government during WWII and thereafter) in the last half of the ‘40’s and ‘50’s, and, while only a few spies were prosecuted, scores of others were identified, removed from their government posts and neutralized. Others who functioned as support personnel for Soviet espionage networks (couriers, recruiters, hosts of safe houses, and providers of false identities and sham jobs) were identified, questioned and frightened into inactivity. The Cold War and Korea reduced government and public toleration for Communists and Communist sympathizers. Truman’s legal assault on communism, including the Smith Act, prosecuted leaders and included removing security risks from government. (see “In Denial,” Haynes and Klehr)

Senator Joe McCarthy confronted government officials concealing communist involvement and excessively lax security with regards to Communists in sensitive U.S. Government posts. In many cases he was on target, with over 81 of the names he gave the Tydings committee resulting in resignations or movement of security risks. Given that over 200 of the spies uncovered in the Venona decrypts were never identified, we can only speculate as to the national security impact of removing Communists from key DoD and State Dept posts. Arthur Herman, author of "Joseph McCarthy: Reexamining the Life and Legacy of America's Most Hated Senator," says that the accuracy of McCarthy's charges "was no longer a matter of debate," that they are "now accepted as fact." And The New York Post's Eric Fettmann has noted: "growing historical evidence underscores that, whatever his rhetorical and investigative excesses - and they were substantial - McCarthy was a lot closer to the truth about Communism than were his foes."

Whittaker Chambers wrote in his book WITNESS that liberals are/were incapable of ever effectively fighting Communism because they did not see anything in Communism that was antithetical to their own beliefs. In short, Liberals are Communists and Communists are Liberals. The revisionist is aware of the horrors of Communism; the tortures, the Gulags, the over 100 million persons done to death. She is even aware that the American Communists were taking their orders from Moscow and were attempting to impose the Red Utopia upon the United States. If successful, this would have led to millions tortured, enslaved, starved and murdered. It would have led to the death of human freedom for untold years. As the US was the bulwarked of freedom and Democracy, it's communization would have turned the entire world into an abattoir.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Please don´t put me in a corner just because we disagree on something. That´s the witch hunt I mentioned.
The term Socialism in the NS doesn´t mean the same as it does in regular Socialism. It was rather societal with government provided worker´s holidays, ect. In fact the economy supported Hitler in the politically - and at times economically - troubled "Weimar Republic". It was their choice over the communists, that also gained strength.

The German industrialists who aided and abetted the Nazi regime

“The ghosts of the Third Reich still haunt” many German businesses, David de Jong argues

www.economist.com

You don't get to change the meaning of words.

 

[Bleipriester]

I never said that. But I will continue to push you to retreat still further:

Left wing historians writings filled with righteous indignation and emotional abhorrence toward Joseph McCarthy and cool aloofness toward Joseph Stalin

…claim that McCarthyism was the most disgraceful episode in twentieth-century American life, but show a fading memory of the Communist threat.

Those who ‘suffered’ were chiefly Communists…hiding behind the smokescreen that they were innocent liberals falsely accused.

The thrust is that it was McCarthyism, more than Soviet espionage or Communism infiltration of government, that was – in the words of the October 23, 1998, NYTimes editorial, “a lethal threat to American democracy.” This, in the same editorial that admitted that the evidence against Julius Rosenberg, and “most likely” Alger Hiss, was clear.

The deciphered Venona messages document the CPUSA’s integral role in the Soviet Union’s massive espionage against the US.

The federally funded “National History Standards” for elementary schools were released in 1994, cemented a revisionist view of American Communism for schoolteachers, as the guide mentions McCarthy over twenty times, while Edison and the Wright Brothers got no mention. “It …repeatedly condemns McCarthyism as an unmitigated evil…[but] the Hiss-Chambers and Rosenberg cases, the two dominant controversies of the anticommunist era, are described with bland, neutral language crafted to keep from implying guilt while not being quite so foolhardy as to actually assert innocence..’National Standards’…implies that the cases are part and parcel of the McCartyite horror.” From “In Denial,” by Haynes and Klehr, pg. 151

Revisionist views are found, for example, in the work of Ellen Wolf Schrecker, Ph.D., a professor of American history at Yeshiva University, who states “ whatever threat to the United States such espionage [by US citizens working for Soviet intelligence] may have posed, it was gone by the time the main justification for the McCarthy-era purges.” The revisionists claim that the greater sin was not the betrayal of the country by American Communists, but anticommunists using that betrayal as “a rationalization for the most widespread and the longest-lasting episode of political repression in our nation’s history.”

The Professor’s view is based on the relatively small number of prosecutions and convictions, but this overlooks the objectives of the FBI, which weighed exposing sources vs. prosecutions. The aim in counterespionage is always to disrupt the cells and prosecutions are secondary. The ongoing decryption of the Venona cables severely damaged and disruptions of Soviet espionage rings (over 300 Soviet agents active in the US Government during WWII and thereafter) in the last half of the ‘40’s and ‘50’s, and, while only a few spies were prosecuted, scores of others were identified, removed from their government posts and neutralized. Others who functioned as support personnel for Soviet espionage networks (couriers, recruiters, hosts of safe houses, and providers of false identities and sham jobs) were identified, questioned and frightened into inactivity. The Cold War and Korea reduced government and public toleration for Communists and Communist sympathizers. Truman’s legal assault on communism, including the Smith Act, prosecuted leaders and included removing security risks from government. (see “In Denial,” Haynes and Klehr)

Senator Joe McCarthy confronted government officials concealing communist involvement and excessively lax security with regards to Communists in sensitive U.S. Government posts. In many cases he was on target, with over 81 of the names he gave the Tydings committee resulting in resignations or movement of security risks. Given that over 200 of the spies uncovered in the Venona decrypts were never identified, we can only speculate as to the national security impact of removing Communists from key DoD and State Dept posts. Arthur Herman, author of "Joseph McCarthy: Reexamining the Life and Legacy of America's Most Hated Senator," says that the accuracy of McCarthy's charges "was no longer a matter of debate," that they are "now accepted as fact." And The New York Post's Eric Fettmann has noted: "growing historical evidence underscores that, whatever his rhetorical and investigative excesses - and they were substantial - McCarthy was a lot closer to the truth about Communism than were his foes."

Whittaker Chambers wrote in his book WITNESS that liberals are/were incapable of ever effectively fighting Communism because they did not see anything in Communism that was antithetical to their own beliefs. In short, Liberals are Communists and Communists are Liberals. The revisionist is aware of the horrors of Communism; the tortures, the Gulags, the over 100 million persons done to death. She is even aware that the American Communists were taking their orders from Moscow and were attempting to impose the Red Utopia upon the United States. If successful, this would have led to millions tortured, enslaved, starved and murdered. It would have led to the death of human freedom for untold years. As the US was the bulwarked of freedom and Democracy, it's communization would have turned the entire world into an abattoir.

This completely misses my point, so I won´t retreat from it. Soviet espionage was a threat as the open border is a threat. I was talking about general suspicion. People who are just citizens, can´t deal damage to the country and aren´t communists but are treated as if that all applies to them. Maybe you criticized the intelligence excesses starting in the 50´s. That could have earned you the labels anti-American and Communist. As POTUS it could have earned you a bullet in the head.

 

[Bleipriester]

You don't get to change the meaning of words.

You might me interested in history.

Economy of Nazi Germany - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org