A Minor Mystery Of WWII

[Picaro]

OK.....let's not waste time......watch how quickly I put you in your place:

We're still waiting. Your personal delusions are less than convincing.

 

[Picaro]

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."

Interesting whose quote that is.


This thread is not centered on Hess's flight to Scotland.
That would be an event.
The focus is the idea that was the fundemental idea of Nazism.

Blood.

Used in this way:

"This attitude dovetails with what is known about FDR's views regarding immigrants in general and Asian immigrants in particular.... He recommended that future immigration should be limited to those who had "blood of the right sort." "

So his beliefs were very similar to most Asians, Europeans, Africans, and Indians re races and cultures? Oh my ! That certainly is a profound observation.

What next? Will you point out the Earth is round?

 

[PoliticalChic]

So his beliefs were very similar to most Asians, Europeans, Africans, and Indians re races and cultures? Oh my ! That certainly is a profound observation.

What next? Will you point out the Earth is round?

Clearly you are unable to understand the topic.

Were you always this way, or is it due to some terrible accident/

 

[PoliticalChic]

We're still waiting. Your personal delusions are less than convincing.

Clearly you are unable to understand the topic.

Were you always this way, or is it due to some terrible accident/

 

[PoliticalChic]

Pretty good. Now add New Zealand, Australia, Vietnam, Malaysia, China, Mongolia, Russia when it was still communist, India, Nepal, Kashmir, Pakistan, Tibet, Ethiopia, Kenya, Botswana, South Afric pre and post apartheid, Morocco, Egypt, Chad, Belgian Congo, Rhodesia, South West Africa, South Georgia Island, The Canary Islands, Malta, Gibraltar, Greenland, Iceland, and Antarctica.

Plus every place you listed except the Uffizi, I was never able to work that in, nor have I walked the stations of the cross in Jerusalem, though I have spent a lot of time in the city, as well as the country as a whole.

Nor have I experienced the incense in a Buddhist temple, but have spent weeks in the Plain of Jars and exploring Ankor Wat.

Venice is one of my favorite cities, but I also enjoy Sienna, Milan, Rome, the Isle of Capri, and further north, Monte Carlo.

I've not climbed to the top of the Leaning Tower of Pisa, but have climbed to the top of Stirling Castle, and dined atop the Eiffel Tower.

I must confess I am not too intrigued by art works. My wife's cousin was the principle for the Louvre, so it was very nice having access after hours, but I was more interested in visiting historic battlefields, and ancient archeological sites. So Pompeii is a favorite, as is the Oracle at Delphi, and the ruins of Sparta. Nimrud was also a favorite, but the savages of ISIS destroyed that exceptional site. Their wanton destruction of archeological sites, along with the Taliban have earned my hatred till the end of my days.

So, you are well traveled, but have a ways to go to catch up.

Excellent.

That's a life.


I should have added Japan, and that I was born in Seoul.

 

[whitehall]

It should be noted that the United States had no real intelligence network during WW2 Wild Bill Donovan's OSS was a conglomeration of amateurs playing spies. The Supreme Court finally had to decree that the FBI would be the lead agency in dealing with espionage. The problem was that Hoover's G. Men were used to dealing with prohibition gangsters and had no experience with espionage. The Brits were shocked that America's intelligence network was so sloppy and maybe they were careful not to divulge any secrets to the FDR administration including Hess's mission.

 

[westwall]

Excellent.

That's a life.


I should have added Japan, and that I was born in Seoul.

I've been to the Tokyo Sword Museum, but have not traveled extensively in Japan.

I have passed through the airport in Seoul many times, but other than that not stepped foot in the country propper.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I've been to the Tokyo Sword Museum, but have not traveled extensively in Japan.

I have passed through the airport in Seoul many times, but other than that not stepped foot in the country propper.

한국을 다음 기점으로 삼아라

 

[PoliticalChic]

It should be noted that the United States had no real intelligence network during WW2 Wild Bill Donovan's OSS was a conglomeration of amateurs playing spies. The Supreme Court finally had to decree that the FBI would be the lead agency in dealing with espionage. The problem was that Hoover's G. Men were used to dealing with prohibition gangsters and had no experience with espionage. The Brits were shocked that America's intelligence network was so sloppy and maybe they were canreful not to divulge any secrets to the FDR administration including Hess's mission.

We built one using the Nazi version because FDR couldn't imagine having to spy on his pal, Uncle Joe.


FDR had no spy agencies...he invited Stalin's spies into his administration.

After the war, we used former Nazis who had a network of spies in Russia.


"Reinhard Gehlen (3 April 1902 – 8 June 1979) was a German general who served as chief of the Foreign Armies East (FHO) military intelligence unit during World War II, and who later became leader of the Gehlen Organization and the first president of theFederal Intelligence Service (Bundesnachrichtendienst) (BND) during the Cold War. Gehlen is considered one of the most legendary Cold War spymasters."
Reinhard Gehlen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Founded our CIA during the Cold War.

 

[Grau]

There was no Stalin plan to march west that's just Nazi apologist propaganda to try and justify the brutal Barbarossa invasion, as for Hess there were those in Britain on the Conservative right who thought we were on the wrong side in WW2 some were even living in Germany working for the Nazis at least one was executed after the war, i tend to think Hitler gave a green light to Hess who was thought to have been in contact with some of the elite in Britain who had sympathy for the Nazi cause, we will probably never know.

At least we agree that Hess flew to Britain with Hitler's knowledge and approval and I assume that you agree that Hess was presenting an offer to withdraw from all Western conquests in exchange for what translates into "a well wishing neutrality".

It is well known that because of the recent scars left by WW 1, Britain had no stomach for another World War.
After all, WW 1 had a devastating effect on English society and had only been over for about 20 years

Because of the popular appeal that a way out of WW 2 would have had, a pro war, anti German Churchill. (1) made sure that the peace offer would ever see the light of day.

I think that Hitler's peace offer to the West was genuine because recently released Soviet documents confirm Stalin's plans to march West on "M - Day"; July 1941

Perhaps you can explain why Stalin's forces were in offensive positions getting ready to attack Germany rather than in defensive positions.

It was inevitable that National Socialism and Communism would clash but to believe that Operation Barbarossa occurred because: "The mad man, Hitler, wanted to rule the world." is simply Communist / Allied propaganda to further demonize those "evil Germans".

You are aware that both sides use propaganda and have been doing so since the beginning of time, aren't you?

Thanks,




(1).Winston Churchill: "We will force this war upon Hitler, if he wants it or not." - Winston Churchill (1936 broadcast)

The history truth about WWII you should know!

Winston Churchill: We will force this war upon Hitler, if he wants it or not. - Winston Churchill (1936 broadcast) Germany becomes too powerful. We have to crush it. - Winston Churchill (November 1936 to US-General Robert E. Wood) Germanys unforgivable crime before WW2…

lorddreadnought.livejournal.com

 

[Picaro]

It should be noted that the United States had no real intelligence network during WW2 Wild Bill Donovan's OSS was a conglomeration of amateurs playing spies. The Supreme Court finally had to decree that the FBI would be the lead agency in dealing with espionage. The problem was that Hoover's G. Men were used to dealing with prohibition gangsters and had no experience with espionage. The Brits were shocked that America's intelligence network was so sloppy and maybe they were careful not to divulge any secrets to the FDR administration including Hess's mission.

PArtly true, but we had extensive networks of corporate execs, foreign service officers, etc. that could provide very accurate production stats, political news, and informal contacts in nearly every country in the world, so we weren't totally blind, either. For instance, the Standard Oil companies could provide very precise estimates on how long the Japanese military could last under an oil embargo, and had the means to locate and sink a Japanese ship carrying most of the Japanese petroleum industry workers and engineers to the conquered Dutch territories to rebuild the oil refineries and wells there, some 800 out of thousand or so experienced oil field personnel. It was a disaster for the Japs.

 

[Weatherman2020]

At least we agree that Hess flew to Britain with Hitler's knowledge and approval and I assume that you agree that Hess was presenting an offer to withdraw from all Western conquests in exchange for what translates into "a well wishing neutrality".

It is well known that because of the recent scars left by WW 1, Britain had no stomach for another World War.
After all, WW 1 had a devastating effect on English society and had only been over for about 20 years

Because of the popular appeal that a way out of WW 2 would have had, a pro war, anti German Churchill. (1) made sure that the peace offer would ever see the light of day.

I think that Hitler's peace offer to the West was genuine because recently released Soviet documents confirm Stalin's plans to march West on "M - Day"; July 1941

Perhaps you can explain why Stalin's forces were in offensive positions getting ready to attack Germany rather than in defensive positions.

It was inevitable that National Socialism and Communism would clash but to believe that Operation Barbarossa occurred because: "The mad man, Hitler, wanted to rule the world." is simply Communist / Allied propaganda to further demonize those "evil Germans".

You are aware that both sides use propaganda and have been doing so since the beginning of time, aren't you?

Thanks,




(1).Winston Churchill: "We will force this war upon Hitler, if he wants it or not." - Winston Churchill (1936 broadcast)

The history truth about WWII you should know!

Winston Churchill: We will force this war upon Hitler, if he wants it or not. - Winston Churchill (1936 broadcast) Germany becomes too powerful. We have to crush it. - Winston Churchill (November 1936 to US-General Robert E. Wood) Germanys unforgivable crime before WW2…

lorddreadnought.livejournal.com

Churchill made no such statement.

 

[whitehall]

We built one using the Nazi version because FDR couldn't imagine having to spy on his pal, Uncle Joe.


FDR had no spy agencies...he invited Stalin's spies into his administration.

After the war, we used former Nazis who had a network of spies in Russia.


"Reinhard Gehlen (3 April 1902 – 8 June 1979) was a German general who served as chief of the Foreign Armies East (FHO) military intelligence unit during World War II, and who later became leader of the Gehlen Organization and the first president of theFederal Intelligence Service (Bundesnachrichtendienst) (BND) during the Cold War. Gehlen is considered one of the most legendary Cold War spymasters."
Reinhard Gehlen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Founded our CIA during the Cold War.

FDR was a dying old man who referred to Stalin as Uncle Joe. Harry Truman tried to clean up communist spies in the government with HUAC but he wasn't smart enough and when it went bad they blamed the whole thing on McCarthy.

 

[PoliticalChic]

And now for a medial review.

1. Why did Rudolph Hess fly to Scotland? To pursue either a peace treaty between Enland and Germany, or at least a non-agression treaty.


2. Did Hitler authorize the trip, or had Hess gone insane? One cannot forget either that Hitler was in charge of everything that took place in the Reich, or that he knew it would be suicide to enter a two-front war.


3. What was it that made Hitler believe he had a chance to co-opt Britain?
And this is the element that is under-reported.

There was nearly as strong an element of anti-Semitism in Britain as there was in Germany.

4. Were Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson Nazi Sympathizers?​

Having a friendly relationship with Adolf Hitler, many speculated that the Duke and Duchess of Windsor were involved in a plot to overthrow the British crown during World War II.

Were Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson Nazi Sympathizers?

Having a friendly relationship with Adolf Hitler, many speculated that the Duke and Duchess of Windsor were involved in a plot to overthrow the British crown during World War II.

www.biography.com

5. British archives hiding royal family’s links to anti-Semitism in 1930s, says historian​

Amid row over 7-year-old Elizabeth’s ‘Nazi salute,’ German historian Karina Urbach says documentation on monarchy’s connections to Hitler is being withheld, may well have been destroyed​

British archives hiding royal family’s links to anti-Semitism in 1930s, says historian

Amid row over 7-year-old Elizabeth's 'Nazi salute,' German historian Karina Urbach says documentation on monarchy's connections to Hitler is being withheld, may well have been destroyed

www.timesofisrael.com

6. "Significant Jewish migration from Eastern Europe in the years prior to World War I saw some antisemitic opposition, which would result in increasingly restrictive immigration laws. An emerging fascist movement in the 1930s, which launched antisemitic campaigns, was accompanied by a government policy of restricting the inflow of Jewish refugees from Nazi controlled territories. Notwithstanding sympathy for the Jews following the Holocaust, immigration controls to Mandatory Palestine were maintained, while Zionist attacks on British forces in Palestine caused some resentment and would trigger anti-Jewish riots in 1947."

Antisemitism in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And, of course the same for FDR.

 

[whitehall]

And now for a medial review.

1. Why did Rudolph Hess fly to Scotland? To pursue either a peace treaty between Enland and Germany, or at least a non-agression treaty.


2. Did Hitler authorize the trip, or had Hess gone insane? One cannot forget either that Hitler was in charge of everything that took place in the Reich, or that he knew it would be suicide to enter a two-front war.


3. What was it that made Hitler believe he had a chance to co-opt Britain?
And this is the element that is under-reported.

There was nearly as strong an element of anti-Semitism in Britain as there was in Germany.

4. Were Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson Nazi Sympathizers?​

Having a friendly relationship with Adolf Hitler, many speculated that the Duke and Duchess of Windsor were involved in a plot to overthrow the British crown during World War II.

Were Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson Nazi Sympathizers?

Having a friendly relationship with Adolf Hitler, many speculated that the Duke and Duchess of Windsor were involved in a plot to overthrow the British crown during World War II.

www.biography.com

5. British archives hiding royal family’s links to anti-Semitism in 1930s, says historian​

Amid row over 7-year-old Elizabeth’s ‘Nazi salute,’ German historian Karina Urbach says documentation on monarchy’s connections to Hitler is being withheld, may well have been destroyed​

British archives hiding royal family’s links to anti-Semitism in 1930s, says historian

Amid row over 7-year-old Elizabeth's 'Nazi salute,' German historian Karina Urbach says documentation on monarchy's connections to Hitler is being withheld, may well have been destroyed

www.timesofisrael.com

6. "Significant Jewish migration from Eastern Europe in the years prior to World War I saw some antisemitic opposition, which would result in increasingly restrictive immigration laws. An emerging fascist movement in the 1930s, which launched antisemitic campaigns, was accompanied by a government policy of restricting the inflow of Jewish refugees from Nazi controlled territories. Notwithstanding sympathy for the Jews following the Holocaust, immigration controls to Mandatory Palestine were maintained, while Zionist attacks on British forces in Palestine caused some resentment and would trigger anti-Jewish riots in 1947."

Antisemitism in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And, of course the same for FDR.

Old Joe Kennedy was relieved as ambassador because of his pro Nazi opinion. The media never made a big thing of it because Joe Kennedy was a member of the rich American aristocracy and had a lot of clout in Hollywood

 

[Picaro]

So the point of all this fake 'history' is to claim the Nazis were poor hapless innocent victims of FDR and Churchill? Apparently, which is why it deserves to be laughed at and mocked.

 

[Picaro]

FDR was a dying old man who referred to Stalin as Uncle Joe. Harry Truman tried to clean up communist spies in the government with HUAC but he wasn't smart enough and when it went bad they blamed the whole thing on McCarthy.

FDR was elected President 4 times, by the survivors of the Great Depression and the WW II generation. Get over it.

 

[whitehall]

FDR was elected President 4 times, by the survivors of the Great Depression and the WW II generation. Get over it

The Great Depression lasted for the first two terms of FDR's administration and only ended when he invited Japan to attack Pearl Harbor. How many presidents get that much support from the media and pop historians?

 

[Picaro]

The Great Depression lasted for the first two terms of FDR's administration and only ended when he invited Japan to attack Pearl Harbor. How many presidents get that much support from the media and pop historians?

Of course this total rubbish, too. But if you don't parrot it, the other right wingers might let you in the treehouse. Obviously the people living at the time think you're full of shit. They elected him 4 times. Then they elected Truman.

 

[whitehall]

Of course this total rubbish, too. But if you don't parrot it, the other right wingers might let you in the treehouse. Obviously the people living at the time think you're full of shit. They elected him 4 times. Then they elected Truman.

How did you get through school by using the words "total rubbish" in defense of a political argument? Go for it Picaro , defend your political beliefs.