A Moment Of Truth

[MikeK]

I was stationed in San Francisco '68-'69 and got to know the anti-war movement well. Mostly they were young people looking for a party and some were sincere in what they believed. However (as proved by Congressional investigation) many of your "...highly decorated (and some badly disabled) Vietnam veterans..." were simply lying scum with vivid imaginations

Those who served during World War Two defended us against two powerful military forces either of which was capable of invading and occupying this Nation, one of which had attacked us. What our troops did in that honorable war was necessary and in a single word, glorious. They deserve the gratitude of their generation and of every succeeding generation of Americans. Because, again, they defended the U.S. against two menacingly capable enemies.

The North Vietnamese did nothing to provoke our military aggression. They did not attack us. They did not threaten us. And they were absolutely incapable of harming the U.S. in any way. Yet our government saw fit to engage in a military adventure in that nation which cost the lives of 58,000+ Americans and caused the maiming and scarring of tens of thousands more.

Are you capable of understanding the fundamental and critically important difference between those two scenarios? If you were drafted to serve in Vietnam, or if you were naive enough to enlist believing you were serving your country rather than the interests of a corrupt and/or incompetent government, then you have my sincere sympathy for being misused by demagogic political opportunists like Robert MacNamara. But if you think there is some reason why I or any other American should be grateful for the suffering you endured in that unnecessary and utterly immoral debacle, please enlighten me as to that reason. I would like to know how your service in Vietnam served my interests or the interests of the United States. The simple fact of the matter is you were badly misused, wasted, and there is absolutely nothing glorious about that, and that's the message you should be sending to Americans who are too naive or too stupid to know it.

I joined the Marine Corps in 1956 for no reason other than a sense of pride and patriotic obligation. Fortunately my active service occurred during peacetime but I remained ready for combat deployment if the need arose. At that time I did not believe my government would deploy us because of circumstances other than defensive necessity. So we'll call that my time of innocence, which has long since passed.

I joined the protest movement when my cousin, Thomas, who was as close as a brother to me, was drafted and killed just five weeks after arriving in Vietnam. The shock of that loss is what caused me to question the need for it. Can you blame me for being pissed off because there was absolutely no good reason for it? Should I be grateful to Tommy for dying in Vietnam? Should I be grateful to you for whatever miseries you endured there? If so, why? You have my sincere sympathy but certainly not my gratitude. And if you had any sense you'd be as pissed off and disgusted about that outrageous waste of life and limb as I am rather than trying to assign some glory to it.

Face it, Vietnam was a sow's ear. Trying to make it into a silver purse will serve only to obscure the reality of a sad and disgraceful debacle that deserves to be reviled. And your attempt to portray the entire protest movement as "young people looking for a party" is as unfairly inaccurate as would be an attempt to portray every trooper in Vietnam as being as degenerate as those who engaged in the My Lai massacre and the like. While it's certainly true there were some tie-dyed long-hairs whose bizarre and melodramatic behavior attracted attention of the Press, the main body of the movement engaged in the kind of political activity that eventually brought an end to that outrage.

 

[Si modo]

I was stationed in San Francisco '68-'69 and got to know the anti-war movement well. Mostly they were young people looking for a party and some were sincere in what they believed. However (as proved by Congressional investigation) many of your "...highly decorated (and some badly disabled) Vietnam veterans..." were simply lying scum with vivid imaginations

Those who served during World War Two defended us against two powerful military forces either of which was capable of invading and occupying this Nation, one of which had attacked us. What our troops did in that honorable war was necessary and in a single word, glorious. They deserve the gratitude of their generation and of every succeeding generation of Americans. Because, again, they defended the U.S. against two menacingly capable enemies.

The North Vietnamese did nothing to provoke our military aggression. They did not attack us. They did not threaten us. And they were absolutely incapable of harming the U.S. in any way. Yet our government saw fit to engage in a military adventure in that nation which cost the lives of 58,000+ Americans and caused the maiming and scarring of tens of thousands more.

Are you capable of understanding the fundamental and critically important difference between those two scenarios? If you were drafted to serve in Vietnam, or if you were naive enough to enlist believing you were serving your country rather than the interests of a corrupt and/or incompetent government, then you have my sincere sympathy for being misused by demagogic political opportunists like Robert MacNamara. But if you think there is some reason why I or any other American should be grateful for the suffering you endured in that unnecessary and utterly immoral debacle, please enlighten me as to that reason. I would like to know how your service in Vietnam served my interests or the interests of the United States. The simple fact of the matter is you were badly misused, wasted, and there is absolutely nothing glorious about that, and that's the message you should be sending to Americans who are too naive or too stupid to know it.

I joined the Marine Corps in 1956 for no reason other than a sense of pride and patriotic obligation. Fortunately my active service occurred during peacetime but I remained ready for combat deployment if the need arose. At that time I did not believe my government would deploy us because of circumstances other than defensive necessity. So we'll call that my time of innocence, which has long since passed.

I joined the protest movement when my cousin, Thomas, who was as close as a brother to me, was drafted and killed just five weeks after arriving in Vietnam. The shock of that loss is what caused me to question the need for it. Can you blame me for being pissed off because there was absolutely no good reason for it? Should I be grateful to Tommy for dying in Vietnam? Should I be grateful to you for whatever miseries you endured there? If so, why? You have my sincere sympathy but certainly not my gratitude. And if you had any sense you'd be as pissed off and disgusted about that outrageous waste of life and limb as I am rather than trying to assign some glory to it.

Face it, Vietnam was a sow's ear. Trying to make it into a silver purse will serve only to obscure the reality of a sad and disgraceful debacle that deserves to be reviled. And your attempt to portray the entire protest movement as "young people looking for a party" is as unfairly inaccurate as would be an attempt to portray every trooper in Vietnam as being as degenerate as those who engaged in the My Lai massacre and the like. While it's certainly true there were some tie-dyed long-hairs whose bizarre and melodramatic behavior attracted attention of the Press, the main body of the movement engaged in the kind of political activity that eventually brought an end to that outrage.

I'm sorry that you were dropped on your head when an infant.

I'm also sorry that you never learned integrity and are so emotionally scarred that you don't even know that you are one of the few who REALLY needs professional help.

I'm so sorry that your life is miserable.

 

[MikeK]

I'm sorry that you were dropped on your head when an infant.

I'm also sorry that you never learned integrity and are so emotionally scarred that you don't even know that you are one of the few who REALLY needs professional help.

I'm so sorry that your life is miserable.

If all you have are personal insults there is only one way to respond to them.

 

[MikeK]

MikeK, many of us served many years in the Armed Forces and have disagreed with administrations on many things. I despised that Nixon would not end the war, or Reagan and Iran-Contra (I flipped over that), or Bush the Younger's stupidities in the Middle East. But I wore the uniform, I served in times good and bad, and I honor all of us, including you, who did it that hard way. That is what service is about. This is about our comrades not our commanders.

Thanks for the level-headed and substantive commentary. It is a welcome relief from all the juvenile Gung-Ho bullshit.

 

[9thIDdoc]

"Are you capable of understanding the fundamental and critically important difference between those two scenarios?"

You fail to understand that there IS no important diference as related to the subject at hand. You are simply trying to find an excuse to blame troops for decisions made on the National level that were made by civilians far more than anyone else. Most of us were too young to even vote so just why do you think I shoud be more responsible for government's actions than you?
Our soldiers who served in WW II served their Country at risk to life and limb just the same as soldiers before and since and are equally deserving in respect and gratitude.

"The North Vietnamese did nothing to provoke our military aggression. They did not attack us. They did not threaten us. And they were absolutely incapable of harming the U.S. in any way. Yet our government saw fit to engage in a military adventure in that nation which cost the lives of 58,000+ Americans and caused the maiming and scarring of tens of thousands more".

Bullshit. Your knowledge of history sucks. North Vietnam was the aggressor in that war. They repeatedly invaded neighboring nations and attacked and killed US troops.

"Can you blame me for being pissed off because there was absolutely no good reason for it? Should I be grateful to Tommy for dying in Vietnam?"
I am grateful for Tommy's service. And I can and do blame you for not understanding that service to this great Nation is about as far from "no good reason" as you can get. Gross disrespect to both Tommy and the USA in my view.

"Face it, Vietnam was a sow's ear. Trying to make it into a silver purse will serve only to obscure the reality of a sad and disgraceful debacle that deserves to be reviled. And your attempt to portray the entire protest movement as "young people looking for a party" is as unfairly inaccurate as would be an attempt to portray every trooper in Vietnam as being as degenerate as those who engaged in the My Lai massacre and the like. While it's certainly true there were some tie-dyed long-hairs whose bizarre and melodramatic behavior attracted attention of the Press, the main body of the movement engaged in the kind of political activity that eventually brought an end to that outrage."

There is no glory in war. I want nothing from you.
Yes. Vietnam was a sow's ear and the peace movement played no small role for making it so. It is not nice to parade with the enemies' flag during time of war or to aid and abet them.

 

[editec]

Thanking many of us Viet Nam era vets for our "service" is rather like thanking rape victims for the sex we donated.

The United States enlisted 8,744,000 servicemembers between 1964 and 1975.

Of those, 3,403,000 were deployed to Southeast Asia.[47] From a pool of approximately 27 million, the draft raised 2,215,000 men for military service during the Vietnam era.

It has also been credited with "encouraging" many of the 8.7 million "volunteers" to join rather than risk being drafted.

Happy 4th of July to you too, Editec. Are you trying for new lows? Are you that much bought and paid for? Shame on you.

Blow me, kid, I was there.

I fucking hate sunshine patriots.

 

[old navy]

No, he was a one-termer who hated his time in service and still has gay fantasies about Navy Chiefs.

You're right. I was a "one termer," meaning I fulfilled my military obligation and I got out. And I did indeed hate military service, which many will agree affirms my psychological stability. But I paid my dues and was Honorably discharged.

And since you choose to sink to the level of homosexual insults you should know the only time I was hit on by a homosexual during my entire four years in the Marine Corps it was by a Navy Chief (medical corpsman) in the Naval Hospital at Camp LeJeune. So maybe there's a special reason why you chose to be a "lifer."

Do you like living among a lot of men under close conditions? I didn't.

Mike, go back to post #16 of this thread. My comments were not about you. You were not the one quoted in my response. The poster I was referring to snipes at me over different subjects and has made comments about the sexual preferences of career military personnel.

I personally stayed for 26 years because I loved the job and was damned good at it. My time included the miserable years under Clinton and Carter so I feel your pain when it comes to disagreeing with the leadership and their policies.

 

[High_Gravity]

Not to be disrespectfull - but the vid was a little-over-the-top.

Cornball yet moving.

Respect the Veterans and shut the fuck up you draft dodging pussy, your bitch ass always has something smart to say about Vietnam Vets.

 

[Obamerican]

a) I served...in 2 branches and will match my retirement points up against yours any day dopey...

You served in two branches? Was that motivated by an overwhelming sense of patriotism or because you couldn't make it as a civilian and now you'd like to be thanked for it?

I served in two branches. Fuck you.

 

[Trajan]

a) I served...in 2 branches and will match my retirement points up against yours any day dopey...

You served in two branches? Was that motivated by an overwhelming sense of patriotism or because you couldn't make it as a civilian and now you'd like to be thanked for it?

no, I moved from the Marine Corps to being a doggy because my CO would not let me transfer, my appeal to Battalion and Regt. was shot down too.

I was young and full of piss and vinegar and wanted to do more, I wanted to go airborne, recon etc etc... I had a rabbi in BuPers who hand walked my paperwork for an inter-service transfer. The rest, is as they say, history.

No, I never expected people to shake my hand or laud me, but, I would expect not to be subjected to some of the bullshit you put out.

Of course whether I read this thread is totally up to me but, Ollie started this thread and you and Editec decided it would be a good time to come take a dump....

See, it appears to me that what you fail to understand is, at times you don't get to choose where you go and what you do in life. When I finally got done with my major trng/schools etc. in the Army we were members of a Vietnam throw back called a CAT, or combined action team....

we were sent to places to train foreign soldiers in small unit tactics, arms trng. etc. and did things and associated with people that, at times I knew were questionable, but, I raised my hand and I said I would do it, so I did it.


If you start questioning everything, well, its chaos, every soldier a president? deciding whats worthy or not, not knowing the big picture.....if everyone got to act according to their own will and decided to pick and choose what parts of the social contract we as a country are all a part of, it would be pandemonium.

 

[Trajan]

Thanking many of us Viet Nam era vets for our "service" is rather like thanking rape victims for the sex we donated.

Happy 4th of July to you too, Editec. Are you trying for new lows? Are you that much bought and paid for? Shame on you.

Blow me, kid, I was there.

I fucking hate sunshine patriots.

were you a contentious objector?

 

[MikeK]

Mike, go back to post #16 of this thread. My comments were not about you. You were not the one quoted in my response. The poster I was referring to snipes at me over different subjects and has made comments about the sexual preferences of career military personnel.

I personally stayed for 26 years because I loved the job and was damned good at it. My time included the miserable years under Clinton and Carter so I feel your pain when it comes to disagreeing with the leadership and their policies.

This is an embarrassing mistake for which I hope you will accept my sincere apology.

I should tell you the mistaken impression was very disappointing to me because I did consider you as a friendly up to that point. The only excuse I can offer was my angry frame of mind at the time.

 

[The Gadfly]

I was stationed in San Francisco '68-'69 and got to know the anti-war movement well. Mostly they were young people looking for a party and some were sincere in what they believed. However (as proved by Congressional investigation) many of your "...highly decorated (and some badly disabled) Vietnam veterans..." were simply lying scum with vivid imaginations

Those who served during World War Two defended us against two powerful military forces either of which was capable of invading and occupying this Nation, one of which had attacked us. What our troops did in that honorable war was necessary and in a single word, glorious. They deserve the gratitude of their generation and of every succeeding generation of Americans. Because, again, they defended the U.S. against two menacingly capable enemies.

The North Vietnamese did nothing to provoke our military aggression. They did not attack us. They did not threaten us. And they were absolutely incapable of harming the U.S. in any way. Yet our government saw fit to engage in a military adventure in that nation which cost the lives of 58,000+ Americans and caused the maiming and scarring of tens of thousands more.

Are you capable of understanding the fundamental and critically important difference between those two scenarios? If you were drafted to serve in Vietnam, or if you were naive enough to enlist believing you were serving your country rather than the interests of a corrupt and/or incompetent government, then you have my sincere sympathy for being misused by demagogic political opportunists like Robert MacNamara. But if you think there is some reason why I or any other American should be grateful for the suffering you endured in that unnecessary and utterly immoral debacle, please enlighten me as to that reason. I would like to know how your service in Vietnam served my interests or the interests of the United States. The simple fact of the matter is you were badly misused, wasted, and there is absolutely nothing glorious about that, and that's the message you should be sending to Americans who are too naive or too stupid to know it.

I joined the Marine Corps in 1956 for no reason other than a sense of pride and patriotic obligation. Fortunately my active service occurred during peacetime but I remained ready for combat deployment if the need arose. At that time I did not believe my government would deploy us because of circumstances other than defensive necessity. So we'll call that my time of innocence, which has long since passed.

I joined the protest movement when my cousin, Thomas, who was as close as a brother to me, was drafted and killed just five weeks after arriving in Vietnam. The shock of that loss is what caused me to question the need for it. Can you blame me for being pissed off because there was absolutely no good reason for it? Should I be grateful to Tommy for dying in Vietnam? Should I be grateful to you for whatever miseries you endured there? If so, why? You have my sincere sympathy but certainly not my gratitude. And if you had any sense you'd be as pissed off and disgusted about that outrageous waste of life and limb as I am rather than trying to assign some glory to it.

Face it, Vietnam was a sow's ear. Trying to make it into a silver purse will serve only to obscure the reality of a sad and disgraceful debacle that deserves to be reviled. And your attempt to portray the entire protest movement as "young people looking for a party" is as unfairly inaccurate as would be an attempt to portray every trooper in Vietnam as being as degenerate as those who engaged in the My Lai massacre and the like. While it's certainly true there were some tie-dyed long-hairs whose bizarre and melodramatic behavior attracted attention of the Press, the main body of the movement engaged in the kind of political activity that eventually brought an end to that outrage.

Alright , Mike, you've had your say; now, I'm going to have mine.

First of all, you have once again missed the point entirely. Like a certain commentator on the news recently, you cannot or will not understand the difference between respect and honor and "glorifying" or "celebrating" war. Thee was NO "glory" in Vietnam, just as there is not and never has been any "glory" in WW II, or any other war. All war is ugly, brutal and nasty; there is no "glory" in killing and being killed", no "glory" in shattered minds, bodies and lives, no "glory" in the inevitable collateral damage to the innocent. There is also precious little to "celebrate" when it is all over, other than survival, and the courage honor and selflessness on the part of his fellow troops one has witnessed. I know, because I've been there; I know because I have yet to talk to one single combat veteran of any of our wars who thought there was anything remotely "glorious" about the exercise.

The real irony is that that "great, glorious, grand crusade" of WWII you wax so nostalgic about also taught us in hindsight that its terrible carnage might have been mitigated, or prevented entirely, had the great powers of the day been willing to fight a much smaller conflict against oppression when that evil was yet small and weak. Our policy ever since has been to do just that. The result has been a series of smaller, limited conflicts with limited goals. A war which has been prevented is, of course, a difficult thing to see, while the cost in blood and treasure expended in doing so is all too visible; but the fact remains that after two awful conflagrations within two decades of one another, we have seen nothing on that scale in nearly seventy years, for which we may thank God, (and perhaps a little of our "interventionism", too). There is one thing worse than fighting an unnecessary war, and that is timidity in fighting a necessary one. Which is which, is a decision our system leaves in the hands of politicians, not those of the common soldier or junior officer who bears the brunt of the fighting.

I have knelt at the Wall, and put my hand on those black granite panels. On those are written the names of childhood friends, classmates, friends, men I served with, men who were my commanders, teachers and mentors, fellow officers, and those of my own men who I could not bring safely home. I do not feel grateful that they died; in their deaths, in the deaths of all 58,282 of my brothers and sisters including your cousin Thomas, is only sorrow and loss. What I AM grateful for, is not that they died, but that they lived-lived with the ideals of duty, honor and country, lived with the courage to do what they believed was right, not what was easy; lived with a dedication to something greater than themselves; lived with a love of freedom, this nation, and their fellow troops so strong that they would risk everything to protect them. I will always be grateful for the honor and the privilege of knowing and serving with such individuals.

Likewise, I am not grateful for the suffering of any of my wounded brothers and sisters, then or now. I am heartbroken, when I see our younger vets return from today's war blown up, shot up, brain-damaged and emotionally scarred. I AM grateful for the strength of character that so many have shown in rising above challenges that seem overwhelming; we could all learn something from that kind of inspiration.

So I tell you what; you keep your your pity, and your sympathy, for the damn few of any of us who need or want it; you won't find many. You keep your holier-than-thou attitude for those who share it. You keep your can't do attitude. You keep tearing down your country, whenever she fights a war you don't approve of; and I'll keep raising Old Glory every morning, and taking her down and folding her every night, and thanking God that America is still a nation who produces more people who care enough to make sure she remains a place where even people like you can spread your lies, and show your thinly-disguised contempt for soldiers and vets who continue to protect your right to do so without retribution (though not without rebuttal).

One more thing-Vietnam vets are not victims, fools, suckers, or villains. Neither are today's vets and service members. That your ideology is so small and weak that when we salute each other, or mention honor and Vietnam in the same sentence, you act like we just put sand in your shorts, is telling-and pathetic.

That is all.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Going back to the OP.....

It's a simple video pointing out the difference in how the people treated and felt about our returning troops. there is nothing political about it. There is nothing saying war or wars were right or wrong.

So those who want to rub salt into their own wounds go ahead. I took it as a touching moment when an older vet learned that his sacrifice was appreciated. You don't like that, then fuck off.

I served from 71 through 93. Vietnam through Desert Storm. I saw both sides of the coin.

 

[old navy]

Mike, go back to post #16 of this thread. My comments were not about you. You were not the one quoted in my response. The poster I was referring to snipes at me over different subjects and has made comments about the sexual preferences of career military personnel.

I personally stayed for 26 years because I loved the job and was damned good at it. My time included the miserable years under Clinton and Carter so I feel your pain when it comes to disagreeing with the leadership and their policies.

This is an embarrassing mistake for which I hope you will accept my sincere apology.

I should tell you the mistaken impression was very disappointing to me because I did consider you as a friendly up to that point. The only excuse I can offer was my angry frame of mind at the time.

Apology accepted.

Someone used my comments and your post ended up in the thing for some reason. I can see where you thought I was referring to you. I actually respect your views and even the one who attacks me for some reason.

I'm glad for the clarification.

 

[MikeK]

[...]No, I never expected people to shake my hand or laud me, but, I would expect not to be subjected to some of the bullshit you put out.

[...]

Exactly what "bullshit" are you talking about?

The only point I've tried to make here is I've grown weary of the,"Thank you for your service to our country," platitude, which serves as a subliminal recruiting slogan and to surreptitiously imbed into weak and receptive minds the utterly false notion that the Bush Crime Family's military adventures in the Middle East actually serve the interests of our Nation. If you're looking for bullshit, buddy, there it is!

If you served in Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan, please do not impress upon the receptive minds of young and impressionable Americans that you were serving their interests or the interests of America. Because, unfortunately and sadly, the opposite is in fact true.

That sad fact is not your fault, nor is it the fault of any of the GIs who were forced or suckered into those unnecessary and wrongful military debacles. You were misused, which is a goddam shame, and it is important that you bring your countrymen, young and old, up to date on that ugly reality. Because perpetuating the warrior virtue orientation makes it easy for the next corrupt and incompetent politician in high office to get over on the public and give us another Vietnam, or Iraq, or Afghanistan.

Enough of this BULLSHIT!

 

[MikeK]

Apology accepted.

Thank you.

 

[Trajan]

[...]No, I never expected people to shake my hand or laud me, but, I would expect not to be subjected to some of the bullshit you put out.

[...]

Exactly what "bullshit" are you talking about?

The only point I've tried to make here is I've grown weary of the,"Thank you for your service to our country," platitude, which serves as a subliminal recruiting slogan and to surreptitiously imbed into weak and receptive minds the utterly false notion that the Bush Crime Family's military adventures in the Middle East actually serve the interests of our Nation. If you're looking for bullshit, buddy, there it is!

If you served in Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan, please do not impress upon the receptive minds of young and impressionable Americans that you were serving their interests or the interests of America. Because, unfortunately and sadly, the opposite is in fact true.

That sad fact is not your fault, nor is it the fault of any of the GIs who were forced or suckered into those unnecessary and wrongful military debacles. You were misused, which is a goddam shame, and it is important that you bring your countrymen, young and old, up to date on that ugly reality. Because perpetuating the warrior virtue orientation makes it easy for the next corrupt and incompetent politician in high office to get over on the public and give us another Vietnam, or Iraq, or Afghanistan.

Enough of this BULLSHIT!

Exactly what "bullshit" are you talking about?

this bullshit.

I've grown weary of the,"Thank you for your service to our country," platitude, which serves as a subliminal recruiting slogan and to surreptitiously imbed into weak and receptive minds the utterly false notion

you just choose to insert bush at the end and guess what? I could give a fuck. Clinton bush, FDR, (its interesting I did not see JFK or LBJ in there )......


anyway, thats not the issue, take your shit on July 4th holiday in a thread dedicated to it and the spirit of such, somewhere else for a while.


you've got , what ? 51 other weeks ( well, make that 50 memorial day aint a good time either), come back next week, to much to ask? or are you so desperate for attention you just feel the need to shit whenever and wherever you can?


and editec, I know you have seen my question, twice and we both know why you don't answer.

which I consider kind of punk btw since you came back again to drop off another 'wise' refrain........

 

[9thIDdoc]

[...]No, I never expected people to shake my hand or laud me, but, I would expect not to be subjected to some of the bullshit you put out.

[...]

Exactly what "bullshit" are you talking about?

The only point I've tried to make here is I've grown weary of the,"Thank you for your service to our country," platitude, which serves as a subliminal recruiting slogan and to surreptitiously imbed into weak and receptive minds the utterly false notion that the Bush Crime Family's military adventures in the Middle East actually serve the interests of our Nation. If you're looking for bullshit, buddy, there it is!

If you served in Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan, please do not impress upon the receptive minds of young and impressionable Americans that you were serving their interests or the interests of America. Because, unfortunately and sadly, the opposite is in fact true.

That sad fact is not your fault, nor is it the fault of any of the GIs who were forced or suckered into those unnecessary and wrongful military debacles. You were misused, which is a goddam shame, and it is important that you bring your countrymen, young and old, up to date on that ugly reality. Because perpetuating the warrior virtue orientation makes it easy for the next corrupt and incompetent politician in high office to get over on the public and give us another Vietnam, or Iraq, or Afghanistan.

Enough of this BULLSHIT!

You are a truly pathetic excuse for an American and totally out of touch with reality. I suspect too many drugs with your hippy friends. Or not quite enough.

 

[MikeK]

[...]

One more thing-Vietnam vets are not victims, fools, suckers, or villains. Neither are today's vets and service members. That your ideology is so small and weak that when we salute each other, or mention honor and Vietnam in the same sentence, you act like we just put sand in your shorts, is telling-and pathetic.

That is all.

I never suggested veterans of Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan are fools, suckers or villains -- but they certainly are victims of a corrupt and incompetent government. Because there was absolutely no legitimate neeed to expose them to such lethal madness and cause them to do things for which many of them are presently committing suicide as a direct result of. IAVA - Army Reports Highest Suicide Numbers in 2011 | Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America

As a veteran of the fighting in Vietnam how can you say you were not a victim of Robert MacNamara's folly? Did you enjoy what you experienced there, including having your very life placed at extreme risk every day for absolutely no good or justifiable reason?

Vietnam was not World War Two. Neither is Iraq or Afghanistan.