A World Without Work?

Oldguy

Senior Member
Sep 25, 2012
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Here's an interesting opinion piece from the New York Times which asks the question whether or not working is necessary anymore.

I'd never thought of it in those terms, but we must admit that the information age has made it more and more acceptable to work in non-traditional ways. Many of those who have left the work force aren't destitute. They've found other ways to support themselves besides a traditional job, and the wealth of the nation keeps on growing. As the author points out, when a nation has the kind of wealth we have, even a slight increase (as we're experiencing now) is still a tremendous amount of money and will still leave us far wealthier in the future.

There are, however, costs for supporting ones self through what might be called "non-work," but they are mostly societal issues. But, with the breakdown of the traditional family and the remarkable rise in the number of people whose personal interactions are virtual, it may be that we're quickly establishing a new, and far different, society anyhow. And, it may be that neither political party or ideology has caught up with that new reality.

What do you think?

"…Those riches mean that we can probably find ways to subsidize — through public means and private — a continuing decline in blue-collar work. Many of the Americans dropping out of the work force are not destitute: they’re receiving disability payments and food stamps, living with relatives, cobbling together work here and there, and often doing as well as they might with a low-wage job. By historical standards their lives are more comfortable than the left often allows, and the fiscal cost of their situation is more sustainable than the right tends to admits. (Medicare may bankrupt us, but food stamps probably will not.)…"

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/o...?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130224&_r=0
 
We most certainly have to come up with some new thinking and concepts for the post-monetary age.
 
Millions of illegals are already members of the new "no work" paradigm.

Section 8 housing, food stamps, welfare, free medical, free college, free cell phones, etc.
 
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The USA would be doing swimmingly IF the new wealth created by technology was more evenly divided.

Instead, our system rewards the owners who invest in technology and by doing so make human labor redundant.

Then when the wealth class has a LOT of extra money, what happens next?

ASSET INFLATION...

What is Asset inflation?

That's when there's more money chasing productive assets than there are productive assets to invest in.

The ASSET BUBBLE really started taking off in the 80s. Hence the saving and loan debacle, the dot com bubble, the real estate bubble, the GOLD & commodities bubbles, and the stock market bubble, too.


Some people ask my why I object when the wealth class is TOO wealthy in comparison to the laboring and managment class?

Because the above as described is all too PREDICTABLE.

It happens WHENEVER the capital class ends up owning too large a percentage of the CAPITAL, and they then drive up the cost (but not the efficiency of) the ASSETS that the nation depends on.

Our economic system is, right now, terribl;y INEFFICIENT in the sense that it cannot wisely diorect the nation's investment capital to BACK INTO the nation from which capitalist FIRST made it.
 
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We most certainly have to come up with some new thinking and concepts for the post-monetary age.


It seems to me that if we're to keep the old paradigm of work as noble and necessary, we have to find ways to make sure that work is available. It would be destructive to society to require work, then have no work to do and that would be doubly so if support for the unemployed were curtailed or eliminated. The effect of requiring work without jobs or any kind support would be catastrophic.

But, how do we ensure the availability of work without interfering with the free market? It appears to me that the working people must either subsidize jobs here at home, or subsidize the unemployed. Either way, there is a cost associated with clinging to that old model.
 
The USA would be doing swimmingly IF the new wealth created by technology was more justicially divided.

Instead, our system rewards the owners who invest in technology and by doing so make human labor redundant.

Then when the wealth class has a LOT of extra money, what happens next?

ASSET INFLATION...

What is Asset inflation?

That's when there's more money chasing productive assets than there are productive assets to invest in.

The ASSET BUBBLE really started taking off in the 80s. Hence the saving and loan debacle, the dot com bubble, the real estate bubble, the GOLD & commodities bubbles, and the stock market bubble, too.


Some people ask my why I object when the wealth class is TOO wealthy in comparison to the laboring and managment class?

Because the above as described is all too PREDICTABLE.

It happens WHENEVER the capital class ends up owning too large a percentage of the CAPITAL, and they then drive up the cost (but not the efficiency of) the ASSETS that the nation depends on.

Our economic system is, right now, terribl;y INEFFICIENT in the sense that it cannot wisely diorect the nation's investment capital to BACK INTO the nation from which capitalist FIRST made it.

But, how do you judiciously divide that wealth without interfering in the free market?
 
Millions of illegals are already members of the "no work" demographics.

Section 8 housing, food stamps, welfare, free medical, free college, free cell phones, etc.


You really don't get out much, do you?

In any case, let's not turn this into another "illegals" thread, shall we?
 
The USA would be doing swimmingly IF the new wealth created by technology was more justicially divided.

Instead, our system rewards the owners who invest in technology and by doing so make human labor redundant.

Then when the wealth class has a LOT of extra money, what happens next?

ASSET INFLATION...

What is Asset inflation?

That's when there's more money chasing productive assets than there are productive assets to invest in.

The ASSET BUBBLE really started taking off in the 80s. Hence the saving and loan debacle, the dot com bubble, the real estate bubble, the GOLD & commodities bubbles, and the stock market bubble, too.


Some people ask my why I object when the wealth class is TOO wealthy in comparison to the laboring and managment class?

Because the above as described is all too PREDICTABLE.

It happens WHENEVER the capital class ends up owning too large a percentage of the CAPITAL, and they then drive up the cost (but not the efficiency of) the ASSETS that the nation depends on.

Our economic system is, right now, terribl;y INEFFICIENT in the sense that it cannot wisely diorect the nation's investment capital to BACK INTO the nation from which capitalist FIRST made it.

But, how do you judiciously divide that wealth without interfering in the free market?

Depends on how one defines FREE MARKET.

As it stands now?

There is NO WAY to do that.

This IS part of the systemic problem of our economic system I sometimes refer to.
 
Why should we work when we can all live in huts and make neat stuff, then on occasion walk our stuff to a flea market and sell our neat stuff. Kumbaya.
 
The USA would be doing swimmingly IF the new wealth created by technology was more justicially divided.

Instead, our system rewards the owners who invest in technology and by doing so make human labor redundant.

Then when the wealth class has a LOT of extra money, what happens next?

ASSET INFLATION...

What is Asset inflation?

That's when there's more money chasing productive assets than there are productive assets to invest in.

The ASSET BUBBLE really started taking off in the 80s. Hence the saving and loan debacle, the dot com bubble, the real estate bubble, the GOLD & commodities bubbles, and the stock market bubble, too.


Some people ask my why I object when the wealth class is TOO wealthy in comparison to the laboring and managment class?

Because the above as described is all too PREDICTABLE.

It happens WHENEVER the capital class ends up owning too large a percentage of the CAPITAL, and they then drive up the cost (but not the efficiency of) the ASSETS that the nation depends on.

Our economic system is, right now, terribl;y INEFFICIENT in the sense that it cannot wisely diorect the nation's investment capital to BACK INTO the nation from which capitalist FIRST made it.

But, how do you judiciously divide that wealth without interfering in the free market?

Depends on how one defines FREE MARKET.

As it stands now?

There is NO WAY to do that.

This IS part of the systemic problem of our economic system I sometimes refer to.


I suppose free market could be defined as the unfettered exchange of goods, services, capital and labor. Merriam-Webster defines it as: "an economic market operating by free competition." Whatever the definition used, it's a basis for the global economy, though that does not preclude government involvement in either ensuring a level playing field or to "tilt" that field in favor of domestic entities. No economy, even a "free" one, can be completely divorced from the government which sustains it (Adam Smith said so and he should know.)

What the author of the piece I originally posted, and you, seem to be suggesting is that a society and economy based upon something other than traditional work MUST include some kind of subsidy for "non-work," either in the form of income redistribution (by whatever means) or government restrictions upon the free market to ensure that those who do not "work" aren't left high and dry when, or if, their "non-working" lifestyles come up short.

Conversely, if we keep to the "working" model, those subsidies will still be required to ensure the availability of "work," right?
 
Why should we work when we can all live in huts and make neat stuff, then on occasion walk our stuff to a flea market and sell our neat stuff. Kumbaya.

Actually, that model works in several third-world countries. No, it doesn't create a lot of individual or societal wealth, but it sustains the lives of those who participate in it...with some help.

No, I'm not suggesting that's a model we ought to all strive for, just pointing out that it's already a reality in places like Haiti.

I guess we ought to first ask ourselves what the end-game should be. Survival or prosperity, however that's defined?
 
But, how do you judiciously divide that wealth without interfering in the free market?

First off, there is no "Free Market". There are the protected & subsidized who take from everyone else.

Our current monetary system was designed for hard labor & is now obsolete. There are better systems for advanced works. People are a lot more innovative & creative when they are not distracted by preserving their wealth, not getting ripped-off & getting paid for their work.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc"]Motivation[/ame]
 
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When the "wealthy" business owners are forced to give away their business income and profit to those who won't work, it becomes no longer economically feasible for them to continue in their business so they shut the business down. Then not only do they not have an income, there is no longer any left for the government to steal and give away to those who don't or won't work.
Keep going down that path and eventually there is nothing left for anyone.
 
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When the "wealthy" business owners are forced to give away their business income and profit to those who won't work, it becomes no longer economically feasible for them to continue in their business so they shut the business down. Then not only do they not have an income, there is no longer any left for the government to steal and give away to those who don't or won't work.
Keep going down that path and eventually there is nothing left for anyone.



But, if businesses don't have to subsidize those who CAN'T work (not WON'T work), who will? And, can society as we know it survive without someone supporting those who would work, but for whom no work is available?
 
It's not that we are becoming a world without work, but that the definition of work is changing for many people.

200 years ago work usually entailed some form of physical labor for the vast majority of people.

Even 40 years ago more people worked using their "backs" instead of their "minds".

Now, with advancing technologies more and more people from the farm to the office are able to do more with much less physical labor.

In 1850, one man could harvest about an acre of corn a day. In the 1920's it was up to about 20 acres. Today one man can harvest up to 200 acres in a day.
 
"No work" should never be the viable option. I don't even see how it is an option, other the being legitimately disabled or living off the work of others.

Clinton started the sucking sound of low skill jobs fleeing the country it was predicted and has come home to roost, how we turn that around will take China's standard of living to increase.

Democrats DEMAND that the illegals that can swim the Rio Grande receive the same benefits as those who have lived in the US their whole lives. These same illegals are taking jobs that Americans can and should be doing. But what I think is that the left wing wants their lettuce picked on the cheap.

Those on retirement are merely living off of deferred compensation which they did earn through WORK.

What I always find interesting is when the left wing bemoans people making money it is always those who make things we want, in other words produces something. Seldom, or ever, do the left wing zealots criticize those in Hollywood or professional athletes who in reality produce nothing. I think it has to do with campaign funding and the political persuasion of the Hollywood elite. They definitely have the "Marie Antoinette" syndrome down pat.
 

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