Affirmative Action Some More

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by OCA
Its not a fixation. In my opinion we are not at the point to where we are mature enough as a country to do away across the board with all race based anti discrimination laws such as AA. Would I like to see us get to that point? Absolutely. You feel that we are and I disagree, lets just leave it at that.

No. I will not leave it at that. I don't accept your premise that it's something that's ok until society is measurably ready. Your beloved policy is actively exacerbating racial tension and is actively self defeating for society as a whole.

Believe me i'm not on the liberal side of the aisle 90% of the time. Sounds like to me you are ignoring my views on other subjects and fixating on this one.

This sticks out like a sore thumb. For most conservatives I know, their basic world view is based on the primacy of individual rights; race based preferences are in such glaring violation of this that it just makes me wonder about the intactness of your inward logical world.

 

[OCA]

RWA then the best I can tell you is to fuck off. You are a piece of shit who doesn't recognize an end game when it kicks him in the balls. Go fuck yourself.

You try to make it sound like you are Mr. multiracial and fredom lover when all you are is a closet racialist.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by OCA
RWA then the best I can tell you is to fuck off. You are a piece of shit who doesn't recognize an end game when it kicks him in the balls. Go fuck yourself.

You try to make it sound like you are Mr. multiracial and fredom lover when all you are is a closet racialist.

Wow. You're a little angel. Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Yes. I'm a racialist, because I'm AGAINST race based preference. You're seriously warped. The only racialists here are you and William Joyce.

 

[DKSuddeth]

OCA, I certainly understand getting frustrated but lets keep it somewhat civil and clean, ok? Thanks

 

[NewGuy]

Since MY spouse is hispanic, and completely AGAINST "Affirmative Action" and would rather see it based strictly on capability, what does that mean?

We have a Hispanic hating their own race but blaming whites?

This logic of the "racist" scapegoating escapes me.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Since MY spouse is hispanic, and completely AGAINST "Affirmative Action" and would rather see it based strictly on capability, what does that mean?

It means she's reasonable.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Yes. I'm a racialist, because I'm AGAINST race based preference. You're seriously warped. The only racialists here are you and William Joyce.

Lets be honest, you are for the continued discrimination by whites against minorities. You foolishly think it won't happen when the evidence solidly supports that it has and will. You use the argument of reverse racism as a crutch to further your racist views.

As i've stated before America is NOT MATURE ENOUGH to trust the populus not to actively discriminate against others unlike themselves.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by OCA
Lets be honest, you are for the continued discrimination by whites against minorities. You foolishly think it won't happen when the evidence solidly supports that it has and will. You use the argument of reverse racism as a crutch to further your racist views.

As i've stated before America is NOT MATURE ENOUGH to trust the populus not to actively discriminate against others unlike themselves.

No, I'm not. And Yes, we are.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
OCA, I certainly understand getting frustrated but lets keep it somewhat civil and clean, ok? Thanks

My apologies. I tried to bring this discussion to a peaceful end by agreeing to disagree but same as if we were face to face he spit in my face. Although I regret the language my sentiments remain the same.

 

[NewGuy]

As i've stated before America is NOT MATURE ENOUGH to trust the populus not to actively discriminate against others unlike themselves.

Actually, mature enough or not, we will NEVER grow into that role unless the handholding by government stops.

The Declaration of Independence:

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

It would follow that any law contradictory, including those promoting slavery, should be abolished.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
No, I'm not. And Yes, we are.

Ok lets not be honest

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Actually, mature enough or not, we will NEVER grow into that role unless the handholding by government stops.

The Declaration of Independence:


It would follow that any law contradictory, including those promoting slavery, should be abolished.

Ok lets abolish all those laws today. Assuming you are white as I am what do we have to worry about? We will prosper, lets just hope everybody else gets the opportunity.

 

[NewGuy]

Ok lets abolish all those laws today. Assuming you are white as I am what do we have to worry about? We will prosper, lets just hope everybody else gets the opportunity.

What makes you think we will prosper when it comes to skin color?

Everyone DOES have equal opportunity if all those laws are abolished.

 

[OCA]

On paper yes, in practice its a very different situation has American history clearly shows.

 

[NewGuy]

In practice?

Actually you are quite wrong. History DOES NOT show that.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by NewGuy
In practice?

Actually you are quite wrong. History DOES NOT show that.

So there has been no discrimination in American history?????

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DKSuddeth]

I think my native american ancestors would disagree with you newguy

 

[NewGuy]

So there has been no discrimination in American history?????

Actually, I could be mistaken, but your train of thought appeared to be on "Affirmative action" and we, (I thought) were talking about the laws in favor or the opinions against.

Discrimination is a whole different topic that nobody sane would deny exists.

If we are talking about the abolition of "Affirmative action" causing rampant discrimination, that is an illogical jump.

My point was that history DOES NOT show an abolition of affirmative action to cause discrimination in the realms the current laws claim to protect. -These being in the areas of wealth or income creation.

 

[Aquarian]

as I said earlier, I'm pretty sure that AA is at or near the end of it's usefullness. But to argue that it was never necessary is beyond the pale. Most of us have not had to live thru the era when blacks were pushed to the back of the bus (which oddly is where I prefer to sit), where they could not use the same water fountains, bathrooms, doorways, schools, etc. that whites did. The educational and employment opportunities for blacks back in those days would never have allowed them a chance of participating equally in society.

Today, the vast majority (IMO) of schools and businesses would not discriminate with or without legal reasons. There would certainly be some that would, as there are some that do even with the laws we have and that number would most likely be larger without these laws. But business principals would correct these institutions in due course I think, and the alternative avenues that did not discriminate would reap the benefits in the mean time of catering to a wider audience and being able to draw from a wider pool of talent.

Since I like analogies, our past treatment of blacks can be likened to breaking both of someone's legs and telling them they are free to walk. eventually we gave them crutches (AA) which helped but the time has come (or is very close, I don't feel I have the appropriate knowledge base to decide this precisely) for them to throw away the crutches and learn to walk on their own.