AGW: atmospheric physics

[SSDD]

I do know from empirical evidence that I know more than you and thunder and rocks

And yet you didn't know that Antarctica is a land mass surrounded by water; and that the Arctic is an ocean surrounded by land.

Interesting.

Hilarious, and interesting.

What pathology makes you lie every time you speak?

 

[SSDD]

While there are those that exagerate anything, the majority of the scientists making predictions concerning the effects of the warming have been far too conservative. The estimates for the polar ice melt 13 years ago were for an ice free Arctic Ocean by around 2100. Now it looks like that will be by 2020, if not sooner. The predictions for major weather affects on crops was for 2050. We are seeing that right now. Sea level rise is running right at the top of the worst case prediction.

But, as I have stated many times in the pasts, it will take a devastating catastrophe in this nation before the eyes will be opened to what is obvious. And when that happens, the very first thing out of the mouths of todays sceptics will be "Why didn't the scientists warn us?".

What are we seeing at present that is outside the range of natural variability? What are we seeing at present that has not happened in the past? Where is the human fingerprint?

Just actual evidence please...no model simulations.

 

[SSDD]

The 1 degree shift will not influence our life times terribly much, and nor will rising sea levels. But they may have a profound impact on agriculture and infratructure - and already are having in some parts of the world.

Describe these "profound" effects you believe will happen and list those that you believe are already happening and where they are supposedly happening.

The Big Coloring Book of Vaginas The fact is that rising temperatures already are having a profound effect on the way people live in Spain, Australia, Peru, Bangladesh and Mozambique. Those effects need to be managed, beginning in 2013. [/quote]

Describe those effects and state whether you believe the modern temperatures in those places are unprecedented in history. And how do you manage an effect when you don't know the cause?

The Big Coloring Book of Vaginas I simply do not understand why this has become a political issue when the consequences of ignoring those effects amount to committing economic suicide. I'm so glad that in Finland the debate has simply never been a political one.[/QUOTE]

Money is the cause. Hundreds of billions rapidly approaching trillions. It is about money and power and using pseudoscience and fearmongering to grab more of both.

 

[Saigon]

Describe these "profound" effects you believe will happen and list those that you believe are already happening and where they are supposedly happening.

I am happy to answer this in some detail, but only at such point that you actually commit to reading the material thoroughly and responding to it sensibly.

btw, Why do you keep posting;

The Big Coloring Book of Vaginas

 

[SSDD]

We are seeing that right now. Sea level rise is running right at the top of the worst case prediction.

Dangerous sea level rise is a myth. Here are a few peer reviewed published papers that state as much. At some point, you guys are simply going to have to realize that model predictions are not actual observational data.

ScienceDirect.com - Quaternary Science Reviews - Post-glacial sea-level changes around the Australian margin: a review

new paper published in Quaternary Science Reviews is the "First synthesis of post-glacial sea level data around Australia in over 25 years," and shows that sea levels around Australia were from about 1 to 2.5 meters higher than the present 7000 years ago during the Holocene Thermal Maximum [which lasted 4000 years between 9000 to 5000 years ago].

Sea level trends, interannual and decadal variability in the Pacific Ocean - Zhang - 2012 - Geophysical Research Letters - Wiley Online Library

A new paper published in Geophysical Research Letters finds that much of the observed variation in Pacific Ocean sea levels is explained by natural ocean oscillations such as the Pacific Decadal Oscillation [PDO] and El Nino Southern Oscillation [ENSO]. The authors caution that sea level trends over the short period observed by satellites [less than 20 years] can be erroneously biased by this natural variability.

ScienceDirect.com - Earth and Planetary Science Letters - Nineteenth and twentieth century sea-level changes in Tasmania and New Zealand

According to a paper published last week in the journal Earth and Planetary Science Letters, the rate of sea level rise in the Southwest Pacific region (Tasmania & New Zealand) dropped by a factor of 6 from 4.2 mm/yr between 1900-1950 to only 0.7 mm/yr between 1951-2000.

http://ibis.grdl.noaa.gov/SAT/SeaLe..._NESDIS_Sea_Level_Rise_Budget_Report_2012.pdf

According to the latest NOAA sea level budget, global sea levels rose at only 1.1 - 1.3 mm/year from 2005-2012, which is less than half of the rate claimed by the IPCC [3.1 mm/yr] and is equivalent to less than 5 inches per century.

An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

paper published this week in The Journal of Climate finds the "settled" belief that warming due to 'radiative forcing' from 'greenhouse gases' is causing the seas to rise is not supported by observational data.

Boretti, A.A. 2012. Short term comparison of climate model predictions and satellite altimeter measurements of sea levels. Coastal Engineering 60: 319-322.

A paper published in Coastal Engineering finds the rate of sea level rise has greatly decelerated over the past 10 years, which "is clearly the opposite of what is being predicted by the models," and that "the [sea level rise] reduction is even more pronounced during the last 5 years."

 

[SSDD]

Describe these "profound" effects you believe will happen and list those that you believe are already happening and where they are supposedly happening.

I am happy to answer this in some detail, but only at such point that you actually commit to reading the material thoroughly and responding to it sensibly.

I didn't really expect an answer from you and you didn't dissappoint.

 

[Saigon]

SSDD -

You aren't interested in the topic, and we both know you won't look at the answer. You have just basically said as much.

So why do you ask?

It's just like with the Antarctic material - you demanded I posted the material, and as soon as I did so you spent a week coming up with increasingly hilarious reasons why you could refuse to look at it.

 

[Saigon]

It's good to see SSDD be honest about:

a) what his last google search was

b) his real interests in life

The Big Coloring Book of Vaginas The fact is that rising temperatures already are having a profound effect on the way people live in Spain, Australia, Peru, Bangladesh and Mozambique. Those effects need to be managed, beginning in 2013.


The Big Coloring Book of Vaginas I simply do not understand why this has become a political issue when the consequences of ignoring those effects amount to committing economic suicide. I'm so glad that in Finland the debate has simply never been a political one.

 

[SSDD]

SSDD -

You aren't interested in the topic, and we both know you won't look at the answer. You have just basically said as much.

So why do you ask?

It's just like with the Antarctic material - you demanded I posted the material, and as soon as I did so you spent a week coming up with increasingly hilarious reasons why you could refuse to look at it.

You claimed "profound" effects. When asked what profound effects, you dodge the question because there are no "profound" effects happening anywhere that can be laid at the feet of climate change...much less AGW.

 

[SSDD]

It's good to see SSDD be honest about:

a) what his last google search was

b) his real interests in life

What a petty piece of shit you are.

If you must know....perhaps because you would like a book so you can see what one looks like.....my wife informed me that it was an item she ordered for a collegue who is retiring soon. He stated that he is off to begin his second childhood so the people in her section are putting together a "toy box" for one who is in his second childhood and everyone knows how much children like to color.

 

[Saigon]

SSDD -

Right. I guess a lot of kids books would have the word "vagina" in the title. It makes sense.

The Big Coloring Book of Vaginas

 

[westwall]

SSDD -

Right. I guess a lot of kids books would have the word "vagina" in the title. It makes sense.

The Big Coloring Book of Vaginas

You truly are a loon aren't you. There have been no "profound" effects anywhere on the planet. The Met Office, the IPCC, and Hansen have all had to admit that the temps have been flat for at least 16 years so where is all this profound effect originating from....when there is no warming....

 

[Saigon]

Westwall -

2012 was the hottest year in American history, and 9th hottest year globally.

That is having a profound effect on a dozen countries today, such as Spain, Australia, Bangladesh, Peru, Chile, Mozambique and Argentina. The impact is felt through increased frequency and strength of floods, droughts, glacial melt reducing the availabilibty of water, rising sea levels and so forth.

Did you know New Zealand had never had a tornado prior to 2005? Now they have had two causing fatalities in the same place in the last five years. This means building codes and emergency services need to factor tornados into their MO's.

It's not difficult stuff, this. I can't imagine why you guys struggle over things any high school student could explain.

 

[jon_berzerk]

SSDD -

You aren't interested in the topic, and we both know you won't look at the answer. You have just basically said as much.

So why do you ask?

It's just like with the Antarctic material - you demanded I posted the material, and as soon as I did so you spent a week coming up with increasingly hilarious reasons why you could refuse to look at it.

You claimed "profound" effects. When asked what profound effects, you dodge the question because there are no "profound" effects happening anywhere that can be laid at the feet of climate change...much less AGW.

weather shaman al gore says snowfall in the wintertime

is a sure sign of climate change

it is also note worthy that warm breezes

in the summertime also signals that the end is near

is it global warming or climate change

since daylight savings sprang ahead

it switches to one or the other

--LOL

the one thing certain is that the evil republicans with the sequester plan

has added to it

 

[westwall]

Westwall -

2012 was the hottest year in American history, and 9th hottest year globally.

That is having a profound effect on a dozen countries today, such as Spain, Australia, Bangladesh, Peru, Chile, Mozambique and Argentina. The impact is felt through increased frequency and strength of floods, droughts, glacial melt reducing the availabilibty of water, rising sea levels and so forth.

Did you know New Zealand had never had a tornado prior to 2005? Now they have had two causing fatalities in the same place in the last five years. This means building codes and emergency services need to factor tornados into their MO's.

It's not difficult stuff, this. I can't imagine why you guys struggle over things any high school student could explain.

No it wasn't. Hansen stated that last year was 9th warmest or thereabouts, I don't rmember his exact placement..

As far as your claim about Kiwi tornado's I suggest you try reading some history otherwise it makes you look real, real stupid...of course with you that's a state of being I guess...

"Tornadoes in New Zealand are typically of that size, they're nothing like the size that are observed in the Midwest of the US,'' he told Radio New Zealand.

"So while it's a tragic and devastating event for the area it's passed over, in the broader scheme of things it's a relatively small tornado.''

Another tornado struck Albany 20 years ago in May 1991, killing one man who was hit by debris while he was driving a bulldozer."


Cookies must be enabled | Herald Sun

 

[Saigon]

No it wasn't. Hansen stated that last year was 9th warmest or thereabouts, I don't rmember his exact placement..

Temperatures in the contiguous United States last year were the hottest in more than a century of record-keeping, shattering the mark set in 1998 by a wide margin, the federal government announced Tuesday.

The average temperature in 2012 was 55.3 degrees, one degree above the previous record and 3.2 degrees higher than the 20th-century average, scientists at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration said. They described the data as part of a longer-term trend of hotter, drier and potentially more extreme weather.

2012 hottest year on record in contiguous U.S., NOAA says - Washington Post


Thanks for proving my point with the tornados. NZ had never suffered a fatality from a tornado prior to that first Albany storm. With the 1991 storm, that makes three since then, and all hitting the same area. The torandos might not be mid-west size, but people I know who live in the area are understandably concerned about house prices, safety and the threat of more storms in future. Do you know Albany well? A storm hitting the Hobsonville-Greenhithe bridge could be devastasting, and that is exactly the path the last two tornados took.

btw. Herald Sun is NOT a New Zealand source. I usually use the NZ Herald.

 

[westwall]

No it wasn't. Hansen stated that last year was 9th warmest or thereabouts, I don't rmember his exact placement..

Temperatures in the contiguous United States last year were the hottest in more than a century of record-keeping, shattering the mark set in 1998 by a wide margin, the federal government announced Tuesday.

The average temperature in 2012 was 55.3 degrees, one degree above the previous record and 3.2 degrees higher than the 20th-century average, scientists at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration said. They described the data as part of a longer-term trend of hotter, drier and potentially more extreme weather.

2012 hottest year on record in contiguous U.S., NOAA says - Washington Post


Thanks for proving my point with the tornados. NZ had never suffered a fatality from a tornado prior to that first Albany storm. With the 1991 storm, that makes three since then, and all hitting the same area. The torandos might not be mid-west size, but people I know who live in the area are understandably concerned about house prices, safety and the threat of more storms in future. Do you know Albany well? A storm hitting the Hobsonville-Greenhithe bridge could be devastasting, and that is exactly the path the last two tornados took.

btw. Herald Sun is NOT a New Zealand source. I usually use the NZ Herald.

Ummmm, no. Amazingly enough NOAA gets their info from this guy and he says different.


An update through 2012 of our global analysis reveals 2012 as having practically the same temperature as 2011, significantly lower than the maximum reached in 2010. These short-term global fluctuations are associated principally with natural oscillations of tropical Pacific sea surface temperatures summarized in the Nino index in the lower part of the figure. 2012 is nominally the 9th warmest year, but it is indistinguishable in rank with several other years, as shown by the error estimate for comparing nearby years. Note that the 10 warmest years in the record all occurred since 1998.
The current stand-still of the 5-year running mean global temperature may be largely a consequence of the facr that the first half of the past 10 years had predominantly El Nino conditions, and the second half had predominantly La Nina conditions.



http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/mailings/2013/20130115_Temperature2012.pdf

And, of course, he can only make that claim by going back into the historical record and falsifying the temp data from the 1930's which were MUCH warmer than today. But those are facts and you wipe your ass with facts.

As far as the KIWI tornados go, I proved nothing you fucking idiot. You claimed they had never had a tornado before and clearly they have. Furthermore mr. journalist they have had fatalities before. My gosh but you really are a imbecile. A simple google search turns up these tornados. I havn't even bothered to do an in depth search.

People like you really piss me off you know that...you know NOTHING and try and denigrate those who are massively more informed and competent than you. Go piss off and take your fucking retarded spam with you. You are worthless, absolutely fucking worthless.


Parnell tornado

December 1863

Parnell, New Zealand

-

0 fatalities, numerous injuries

Tornado passed through part of Auckland suburb of Parnell destroying every building, and
uprooting every tree it came across causing a total of £5,000 in damage.[101]



Frankton (Hamilton) tornado

25 August 1948

Waikato, New Zealand

-

3 fatalities, 80 injuries

F2 damages; 163 buildings and 50 businesses[citation needed].



Halswell tornado

19 January 1983

Halswell, Christchurch, New Zealand

-

0 fatalities, unknown injured

Part of a severe storm to strike Christchurch. Authorities didn't believe reports made by citizens. Few buildings were damaged.[citation needed]



Albany tornado

May 1991

Albany, New Zealand

-

1 fatality, unknown injured

Local church destroyed. One man driving a bulldozer was killed by flying debris.[102]



Waitara tornado [1]

15 August 2004

Taranaki, New Zealand

-

2 fatalities, 2 serious injured

The casualties occurred when a farmhouse was demolished by the tornado. Several power lines were taken out, affecting 6,662 consumers. Media reports included debris ‘spread over an area 400 metres long by 50 metres wide’, although other media outlets described the track length as being greater than 1 km.



New Plymouth tornado

4 July 2007

New Plymouth, New Zealand

-

0 fatalities

A series of tornadoes ripped through the New Plymouth district of New Zealand, damaging 50 homes and rendering 70–80% of them uninhabitable. One person was injured, and several were trapped inside vehicles by powerlines.[103]



Auckland tornado

3 May 2011

Auckland, New Zealand

-

1 fatality, 14 injuries

A tornado struck the Auckland suburb of Albany, killing one person, and injuring many others.[104][105]



New Plymouth tornadoes

19 June 2011

New Plymouth, New Zealand

2 confirmed
1 unconfirmed

0 fatalities

Two tornadoes struck New Plymouth damaging businesses in the Central Business District, St Mary's Church Hall and a hotel.[106]



Auckland tornado

6 December 2012

Auckland, New Zealand

More than 1

3 fatalities, 7 injuries

A tornado struck the Auckland suburb of Hobsonville, killing three people, and injuring at least seven others.[107]

 

[Saigon]

Westwall -

So often talking to you I feel like I am talking to a child.

Again, 2012 was the hottest year in US history. It was the 9th hottest year globally. See post #233.

Secondly, New Zealand has had minor tornadoes from time-to-time. There had never been a fatality recorded from a tornado prior to the first albany tornado recently.

You know, if you read with a view to trying to learn you would find this all very easy. It's only because you are obsessed with trying to find fault in what everyone knows are plain and simple facts that you end up working yourself into a spin.

 

[Saigon]

the temp data from the 1930's which were MUCH warmer than today.

You have to laugh don't you?

How on earth can you get yourself so confused?

1934 was the 49th hottest year on record, genius.

The year 1934 was a very hot year in the United States, ranking fourth behind 2012, 2006, and 1998. However, global warming takes into account temperatures over the entire planet. The U.S.'s land area accounts for only 2% of the earth's total surface area. Despite the U.S. heat in 1934, the year was not so hot over the rest of the planet, and is barely holding onto a place in the hottest 50 years in the global rankings (today it ranks 49th).

1934 is the hottest year on record

 

[westwall]

Westwall -

So often talking to you I feel like I am talking to a child.

Again, 2012 was the hottest year in US history. It was the 9th hottest year globally. See post #233.

Secondly, New Zealand has had minor tornadoes from time-to-time. There had never been a fatality recorded from a tornado prior to the first albany tornado recently.

You know, if you read with a view to trying to learn you would find this all very easy. It's only because you are obsessed with trying to find fault in what everyone knows are plain and simple facts that you end up working yourself into a spin.

You really are a simpleton aren't you.

Frankton (Hamilton) tornado

25 August 1948

Waikato, New Zealand

-

3 fatalities, 80 injuries

F2 damages; 163 buildings and 50 businesses[citation needed].

I highlighted the relevent section for your feeble mind. Please note the first RECORDED fatalities were from 1948

Got it idiot?

No, I didn't think you would. You're too stupid.