America Before the Entitlement State

[daveman]

And the rich isn't you or anyone you know...

Same for you, but that doesn't stop you from speaking authoritatively.

Repeating what you read in leftist echo chambers is not independent, critical thinking.

 

[rckirby]

I look at the role of Government as that of a referee. They are not there to help one side or the other but to call a fair game. If one side is getting all the calls, you end up with a lopsided score. Conservatives seem hellbent that if one side can get as high a score as possible...they win.

That was exactly what Karl Marx said. The role of government would be to bring down the rich and raise the poor and level the playing field for everybody. And once that was done, the government could go away and everybody would live in perfect harmony. Of course since it hadn't been tried before, he didn't take into acount that NO government, once it achieves that kind of power, EVER voluntarily gives it up.

The problem with your 'referee' analogy, however, is that it gives the government total power to pick winners or losers, to skew a game any way it wants it to go, to punish those it doesn't like and reward those it likes. And there is nobody to tell it that it has to play by anybody's rules but its own and it is free to make up those rules as it goes. So naturally, the rules will ensure that the government remains firmly in place and whatever the fallout for anybody else is would be a secondary consideration.

And, if the intended purpose is that nobody is able to run up the score, that means that the least talented and productive players will be rewarded and the skilled achievers must be punished.

And voila, we are right back to the monarchal system that the Founders risked all their blood and treasure to free us from.

Oh,take a break from the dittohead hysteria.

Thing is, the gov't has been picking the rich for the last 30 years. Time to even the field, oh, and rebuild our infrastructure, grasshopper.

No shit....and you keep voting for the D's.

 

[francoHFW]

That was exactly what Karl Marx said. The role of government would be to bring down the rich and raise the poor and level the playing field for everybody. And once that was done, the government could go away and everybody would live in perfect harmony. Of course since it hadn't been tried before, he didn't take into acount that NO government, once it achieves that kind of power, EVER voluntarily gives it up.

The problem with your 'referee' analogy, however, is that it gives the government total power to pick winners or losers, to skew a game any way it wants it to go, to punish those it doesn't like and reward those it likes. And there is nobody to tell it that it has to play by anybody's rules but its own and it is free to make up those rules as it goes. So naturally, the rules will ensure that the government remains firmly in place and whatever the fallout for anybody else is would be a secondary consideration.

And, if the intended purpose is that nobody is able to run up the score, that means that the least talented and productive players will be rewarded and the skilled achievers must be punished.

And voila, we are right back to the monarchal system that the Founders risked all their blood and treasure to free us from.

Oh,take a break from the dittohead hysteria.

Thing is, the gov't has been picking the rich for the last 30 years. Time to even the field, oh, and rebuild our infrastructure, grasshopper.

No shit....and you keep voting for the D's.

Um, obviously it's the PUB tax rates that's picking the winners, dittohead.

Dave, you have NO IDEA what the waivers are for. I.E., waivers for McD CRAPPE insurance plans till 2014, and waivers for union "Cadillac" plans until they renegotiate their contracts, 2018 at the latest. NOTHING like dittoheads believe, I.E. PUB/Fox/Moonie/Koch crappe!

 

[daveman]

Dave, you have NO IDEA what the waivers are for. I.E., waivers for McD CRAPPE insurance plans till 2014, and waivers for union "Cadillac" plans until they renegotiate their contracts, 2018 at the latest. NOTHING like dittoheads believe, I.E. PUB/Fox/Moonie/Koch crappe!

Yes, you just keep making excuses for the failure and for the pandering to special interest groups. You'll burst into flames if you criticize your leaders.

 

[Cuyo]

It won't be an entitlement state for long. the gimmmie gimmmie mo mo mo taker crowd is fixin to overtake the giver crowd,, and lot's of givers have given up giving and moved.. to greener pastures.. so the gimmmie gimmmie crowd better come up with a plan B..

You're right, this country's screwed.

You should leave immediately.

 

[rightwinger]

Exactly. So for the conservative, enforcing the rules means everybody plays by exactly the same rules, incurs the same penalities, and those who produce get more playing time and better pay. That is not decided by the federal government.

To keep the referee from taking bribes or home teaming somebody, you take away the ability of the federal government to bestow any favors or benevolence of any kind on anybody. And any referee who makes too many bad calls is replaced as is the one who is obviously showing any kind of favoritism for one team vs another.

Conservatives can see the virtue in such a plan. Most Leftists generally reject it because the truth is they WANT the government to bestow favor on certain groups and they WANT the government to have the power to order whatever sort of society they think they want.

I get your point

The only way conservatives think big business can win is if you take away the whistle from the referee

I've got an idea. Since you don't seem to know anything about conservatives, why don't you ask us questions instead of making shit up?

You evidently know very little about the movement you espouse

 

[Steelplate]

And the rich isn't you or anyone you know...

Same for you, but that doesn't stop you from speaking authoritatively.

Repeating what you read in leftist echo chambers is not independent, critical thinking.

and repeating what you read in Right wing echo chambers is Critical thinking? You have no clue what critical thinking is. We KNOW there's corruption and cronyism in government. You refuse to see what's going on with Corporate America and the super wealthy elite that run it.

How can you call it "critical thinking" when you only "critically" look at one side of the coin?

Face it... you are a dittohead, a parrot... and quite sadly... a sheep that blindly supports the people that would minimize your worth to an unlivable wage so they can hoard more for themselves.

 

[francoHFW]

Dave, you have NO IDEA what the waivers are for. I.E., waivers for McD CRAPPE insurance plans till 2014, and waivers for union "Cadillac" plans until they renegotiate their contracts, 2018 at the latest. NOTHING like dittoheads believe, I.E. PUB/Fox/Moonie/Koch crappe!

Yes, you just keep making excuses for the failure and for the pandering to special interest groups. You'll burst into flames if you criticize your leaders.

Have you ever considered facts or learning something?- you're a total waste of time, troll...

 

[Bfgrn]

Doesn't it bother you at all to be that ignorant of history. To apparently repeat the idiocy you read on ignorant leftwing sites? You do know that in 1993 the healthcare overhaul was spearheaded by Hillary Clinton backed up with Democratic majorities in both the House and Senate and with Bill Clinton in the White House? And it was sooooo awful, that even the Democrats wouldn't vote to pass it? Soooooooo awful that it cost the Democrats control of the House and Senate in 1994. The GOP couldn't get a bill out of committee during that time, much less something out on the floor to debate. Every amendment offered was summarily immediately voted down.

You really ought to read up before you type sometimes.

WHEN will you stop lying?

History of the Individual Health Insurance Mandate, 1989-2010
Republican Origins of Democratic Health Care Provision

The concept of the individual health insurance mandate originated in 1989 at the conservative Heritage Foundation. In 1993, Republicans twice introduced health care bills that contained an individual health insurance mandate. Advocates for those bills included prominent Republicans who today oppose the mandate including Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Charles Grassley (R-IA), Robert Bennett (R-UT), and Christopher Bond (R-MO). In 2007, Democrats and Republicans introduced a bi-partisan bill containing the mandate.

I'm sorry but I am busy right now and simply do not have the time, patience, or inclination to educate you. But since you seem to be drawing your opinion from sources that are citing the Heritage Foundation, I suggest that if you wish to be educated, you go see what THEY were actually saying about healthcare mandates. And you'll see that you are drawing a very distorted picture from the sources you are using.

I would start here:

Using Tax Credits to Create an Affordable Health System

BG1121nbsp The Rise and Repeal of the Washington

Thanks for the Heritage Foundation article. Maybe YOU should read it....when you have the time.

From the the Heritage Foundation article YOU provided:

In return, government would require, by law every head of household to acquire at least a basic health plan for his or her family. Thus there would be mandated coverage under the Heritage proposal...

Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative.
Oscar Wilde

 

[Truthseeker420]

Ágrarian economy. Rural population. Night and day.

Nice try, though.

And it couldn't work today because...?


Oh, yeah...the left has created too large a population utterly dependent on government.

Reagan,H.Bush,and W Bush all expanded the government.

 

[Truthseeker420]

Ágrarian economy. Rural population. Night and day.

Nice try, though.

And it couldn't work today because...?


Oh, yeah...the left has created too large a population utterly dependent on government.

Reagan,H.Bush,and W Bush all expanded the government.

 

[Foxfyre]

Yes EVERY administration/congress since Teddy Roosevelt has been increasing the size, scope, and authority of government. There have been no reductions in government budgets in my lifetime or sometime before that. And yes some people have been helped by government entitlements but at a brutal cost to the American society. We now have a generation in which men are no longer necessary, in which parents no longer bother to feed their kid breakfast or are concerned whether he or she has lunch, in which single parenthood is encouraged guaranteeing subsequent generations of children raised in poverty, in which large segments of society are now angry, violent, and are rendered essentially unemployable.

And every household in America is saddled with an average $133,000+ in public debt that is growing at an astonishing $4 billion dollars a day, every program is running on empty, and there is a danger that the USA's stellar credit rating will be downgraded yet again.

What price government entitlements? A weakened society ever more dependent on a federal government that is out of money and threats of ever more and deeper recession worldwide.

You would think even the most brainwashed leftist would be able to read the handwriting on the wall and start rethinking some things.

 

[The T]

Yes EVERY administration/congress since Teddy Roosevelt has been increasing the size, scope, and authority of government. There have been no reductions in government budgets in my lifetime or sometime before that. And yes some people have been helped by government entitlements but at a brutal cost to the American society. We now have a generation in which men are no longer necessary, in which parents no longer bother to feed their kid breakfast or are concerned whether he or she has lunch, in which single parenthood is encouraged guaranteeing subsequent generations of children raised in poverty, in which large segments of society are now angry, violent, and are rendered essentially unemployable.

And every household in America is saddled with an average $133,000+ in public debt that is growing at an astonishing $4 billion dollars a day, every program is running on empty, and there is a danger that the USA's stellar credit rating will be downgraded yet again.

What price government entitlements? A weakened society ever more dependent on a federal government that is out of money and threats of ever more and deeper recession worldwide.

You would think even the most brainwashed leftist would be able to read the handwriting on the wall and start rethinking some things.

That is unless they are on the dole...and feel threatened the gravy train is nearing the end of the trail.

 

[Bfgrn]

Yes EVERY administration/congress since Teddy Roosevelt has been increasing the size, scope, and authority of government. There have been no reductions in government budgets in my lifetime or sometime before that. And yes some people have been helped by government entitlements but at a brutal cost to the American society. We now have a generation in which men are no longer necessary, in which parents no longer bother to feed their kid breakfast or are concerned whether he or she has lunch, in which single parenthood is encouraged guaranteeing subsequent generations of children raised in poverty, in which large segments of society are now angry, violent, and are rendered essentially unemployable.

And every household in America is saddled with an average $133,000+ in public debt that is growing at an astonishing $4 billion dollars a day, every program is running on empty, and there is a danger that the USA's stellar credit rating will be downgraded yet again.

What price government entitlements? A weakened society ever more dependent on a federal government that is out of money and threats of ever more and deeper recession worldwide.

You would think even the most brainwashed leftist would be able to read the handwriting on the wall and start rethinking some things.

Yes EVERY administration/congress since Teddy Roosevelt except for 5 years of the Reagan/GH Bush administration has been increasing revenues. The tax on the wealthiest is the lowest it has been since 1916. You want cuts ONLY??? Then CUT the military, eliminate Fatherland security and end all wars. Close all the unneeded bases in countries around the world. Close the corporate tax loopholes that allow corporations like Exxon and GE to pay ZERO taxes.

NO cuts to programs that have saved the lives of millions of We, the People.

You would think even the most brainwashed rightist would be able to read the handwriting on the wall and start rethinking some things.

 

[daveman]

I get your point

The only way conservatives think big business can win is if you take away the whistle from the referee

I've got an idea. Since you don't seem to know anything about conservatives, why don't you ask us questions instead of making shit up?

You evidently know very little about the movement you espouse

It's funny how leftists insist they know what people think better than the people do. What generates that level of arrogance?

Your views on conservatism are based on leftist distortions, not reality.

 

[daveman]

And the rich isn't you or anyone you know...

Same for you, but that doesn't stop you from speaking authoritatively.

Repeating what you read in leftist echo chambers is not independent, critical thinking.

and repeating what you read in Right wing echo chambers is Critical thinking? You have no clue what critical thinking is. We KNOW there's corruption and cronyism in government. You refuse to see what's going on with Corporate America and the super wealthy elite that run it.

How can you call it "critical thinking" when you only "critically" look at one side of the coin?

Face it... you are a dittohead, a parrot... and quite sadly... a sheep that blindly supports the people that would minimize your worth to an unlivable wage so they can hoard more for themselves.

Thanks for proving my point. You repeat your programming on cue.

 

[daveman]

Dave, you have NO IDEA what the waivers are for. I.E., waivers for McD CRAPPE insurance plans till 2014, and waivers for union "Cadillac" plans until they renegotiate their contracts, 2018 at the latest. NOTHING like dittoheads believe, I.E. PUB/Fox/Moonie/Koch crappe!

Yes, you just keep making excuses for the failure and for the pandering to special interest groups. You'll burst into flames if you criticize your leaders.

Have you ever considered facts or learning something?- you're a total waste of time, troll...

If by that you mean I refuse to believe leftist bullshit, you're right.

 

[daveman]

Ágrarian economy. Rural population. Night and day.

Nice try, though.

And it couldn't work today because...?


Oh, yeah...the left has created too large a population utterly dependent on government.

Reagan,H.Bush,and W Bush all expanded the government.

Is this where you expect me to say, "Oh, well, then, that's all right!!"?

You're going to be disappointed.

 

[The T]

Same for you, but that doesn't stop you from speaking authoritatively.

Repeating what you read in leftist echo chambers is not independent, critical thinking.

and repeating what you read in Right wing echo chambers is Critical thinking? You have no clue what critical thinking is. We KNOW there's corruption and cronyism in government. You refuse to see what's going on with Corporate America and the super wealthy elite that run it.

How can you call it "critical thinking" when you only "critically" look at one side of the coin?

Face it... you are a dittohead, a parrot... and quite sadly... a sheep that blindly supports the people that would minimize your worth to an unlivable wage so they can hoard more for themselves.

Thanks for proving my point. You repeat your programming on cue.

Isn't it refreshing how they think we Conservatives parrot Limbaugh and others, when it is quite the opposite? They parrot US...

It's how Limbaugh and others stay on the air and Liberal Talk Radio fails. Jealousy buys them frustration...and deservedly so.

 

[daveman]

Yes EVERY administration/congress since Teddy Roosevelt has been increasing the size, scope, and authority of government. There have been no reductions in government budgets in my lifetime or sometime before that. And yes some people have been helped by government entitlements but at a brutal cost to the American society. We now have a generation in which men are no longer necessary, in which parents no longer bother to feed their kid breakfast or are concerned whether he or she has lunch, in which single parenthood is encouraged guaranteeing subsequent generations of children raised in poverty, in which large segments of society are now angry, violent, and are rendered essentially unemployable.

And every household in America is saddled with an average $133,000+ in public debt that is growing at an astonishing $4 billion dollars a day, every program is running on empty, and there is a danger that the USA's stellar credit rating will be downgraded yet again.

What price government entitlements? A weakened society ever more dependent on a federal government that is out of money and threats of ever more and deeper recession worldwide.

You would think even the most brainwashed leftist would be able to read the handwriting on the wall and start rethinking some things.

You would think that, but the most brainwashed leftists are incapable of thinking.