America's Debt: Shame on Them

[Toro]

When is the last time Congress raised revenues by raising taxes and didn't see that as license to increase spending? That is the fallacy in your statement. A balanced budget that does not include spending cuts only means higher and higher taxes for all of us and huge growth of the misery index. So lets get the spending cuts first and the balanced budget. Then we can carefully ease into increased revenues if that should be necessary. (I suspect I won't be.)

Both Bill Clinton and George HW Bush raised taxes in the late 80s and early 90s, and spending to GDP fell. George W Bush cut taxes and spending to GDP rose.

true but the deal as written never materialized , yes he got 'savings', but not what he supposedly shook hands on, they never do, and Herbert Bush took it in the shorts for, well, not what he was promised.

without an amendment any future congresses as has happened in past will just ignore what was done before them. the dems will tell us granny needs more medicare/medicaid (and how would this effect obama care a 3.5(or 8)% tax increase btw on the RICH already on the offing) and that will be that. Heartstrings always turn the tables......

I'm not trying to ascribe political points to any one side. In fact, I would probably give the Republican House more credit than Clinton. And I would certainly give much credit to Bush I. We wouldn't have had a surplus had Bush I not raised taxes. Having said that, all I'm trying to do is show that simply because taxes go up does not mean politicians spend it.

 

[xsited1]

Laos; Egypt
The Dems should run with that one



Some of your links are dated

German Government To Borrow Less In 2012, Cut Taxes

German news agency dapd reported Sunday that Chancellor Merkel and her coalition partners have agreed to cut taxes in January 2013 due to Germany's robust economic growth, citing an internal document.

Read more: German Government To Borrow Less In 2012, Cut Taxes - FoxBusiness.com

OMG, you're gonna make Modbert's head explode! They have to raise taxes, dammit! Doesn't everybody know that raising taxes will make everything all better???

 

[Neotrotsky]

Laos; Egypt
The Dems should run with that one



Some of your links are dated

German Government To Borrow Less In 2012, Cut Taxes

German news agency dapd reported Sunday that Chancellor Merkel and her coalition partners have agreed to cut taxes in January 2013 due to Germany's robust economic growth, citing an internal document.

Read more: German Government To Borrow Less In 2012, Cut Taxes - FoxBusiness.com

OMG, you're gonna make Modbert's head explode! They have to raise taxes, dammit! Doesn't everybody know that raising taxes will make everything all better???

Papa Obama and the Democrats already raised some taxes
That should make him happy

 

[Modbert]

Laos; Egypt,Turkey
The Dems should run with that one



Some of your links are dated

German Government To Borrow Less In 2012, Cut Taxes

All of my links are relevant as they are either a vast majority of 2010 and 2011 links. You want to ignore that Germany already raised taxes and now they plan on lowering. Did I miss where we raised income taxes in the U.S that would make it okay to follow Germany in lowering taxes even further?

Last I checked, we had the Bush Tax cuts and then kept taxes low last year.

In fact, you're ignoring your own link:

The positive development is due to higher revenues from taxes and privatizations, among other factors, according to the document.

Furthermore:

In light of these extra costs, the finance ministry sees only "limited room" for tax cuts, according to the document. "There is only very limited room for mid- and long-term structural burdens (on the budget), if at all", the document said.

Furthermore:

Taxation in Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The rate of income tax in Germany ranges from 0% to 45%. The German income tax is a progressive tax, which means that the average tax rate (i.e., the ratio of tax and taxable income) increases monotonically with increasing taxable income.

The highest income tax bracket in Germany is 45%. Our highest is 35%.

They also have VAT. You want to institute VAT in this country?

 

[Neotrotsky]

His links on tax increases proves nothing, but if he likes links


Tax cut makes Ireland more attractive to business travelers 5/12/2011


Sweden Plans Tax Cuts 4/13/2011

Cut taxes to boost economy, IMF tells George Osborne (England) 6/6/2011

That one has to hurt- the IMF of all things

 

[Neotrotsky]

The US has more of a spending problem than tax problem
It needs an "intervention" almost like a drug addict

Charles Krauthammer

He himself, as we just heard, said you can’t reduce the deficit to the levels we need without raising revenues. Then he talks about the [tax break for] corporate jets, which he mentioned not once but six times.

I did the math on this. If you collect the corporate jet tax every year for the next 5,000 years, you will cover one year of the debt that Obama has run up. One year.

To put it another way, if you started collecting that tax at the time of John the Baptist and you collected it every year — first in shekels and now in dollars — you wouldn’t be halfway to covering one year of the amount of debt that Obama has run up.

As for the other one, he mentions again and again, the oil depreciation tax break — if you collect that one for 700 years, you won’t cover a year of Obama deficits.

And then here’s my favorite. I worked it out in the car on the way here. If you collect the corporate jets and the oil tax together — get all the bad guys and the fat cats at once — and you collect it for 100 years, it covers the amount of debt Obama added… in February!

And he pretends that he’s the serious adult at the table.​

 

[Modbert]

It proves nothing but if he likes links


Tax cut makes Ireland more attractive to business travelers 5/12/2011



Sweden Plans Tax Cuts 4/13/2011

Cut taxes to boost economy, IMF tells George Osborne 6/6/2011

Ireland: They're lowering their VAT, not income.

Sweden: They don't have several wars going on.

Plus:

Taxation in Sweden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(Assumptions: Income tax (Direct - 32%), Employer social fee (indirect - 31.42%))
From a pay of "100", the Employer first pays "32" in Income tax (direct - 32%), on top of that the Employer also pays an additional "31.42" in Employers social fees (indirect - 31.42%).

Thus, from a pay check of "100", 63.42/131.42 (i.e. 48.3%) is paid as income taxes. This effective rate may be lowered by for example earned income tax credits and private retirement savings contributions.

The value added tax (mervärdesskatt or moms) rate in Sweden is 25%, with exceptions for food and services like hotel room rental fees (12%), and for sales of publications, admission tickets to cultural events and travel within Sweden (6%).[2]

Plus, they can afford to cut taxes. That's the key thing.

Finally, your IMF link:

By contrast, the IMF said that in such a scenario, the economy should be stimulated with a combination of more “quantitative easing” from the Bank of England and “temporary tax cuts” for businesses and low-income households.

Watching a Conservative cite the IMF of all things is hilarious though.

 

[Modbert]

His links on tax increases proves nothing

Actually they do, someone tried to cite that nobody was raising taxes. I refuted that very easily.

 

[Kuros]

The highest income tax bracket in Germany is 45%. Our highest is 35%.

They also have VAT. You want to institute VAT in this country?

Germans also pay 14-17% in municipality taxes (I think the highest State taxes in the US is Massachusetts, at 10%, although New York City and Chicago taxes are significant).

But a 5% progressive VAT on non-essentials would be a good revenue device. Americans need a disincentive from consumption to encourage savings. After all, Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid are at the heart of spending cut discussions.

 

[WillowTree]

The highest income tax bracket in Germany is 45%. Our highest is 35%.

They also have VAT. You want to institute VAT in this country?

Germans also pay 14-17% in municipality taxes (I think the highest State taxes in the US is Massachusetts, at 10%, although New York City and Chicago taxes are significant).

But a 5% progressive VAT on non-essentials would be a good revenue device. Americans need a disincentive from consumption to encourage savings. After all, Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid are at the heart of spending cut discussions.

more job killing ideas from the lieturd drones.. goooodie fucking gumdrops..

 

[Neotrotsky]

His links on tax increases proves nothing

Actually they do, someone tried to cite that nobody was raising taxes. I refuted that very easily.

Of course, that does not mean everyone is ...

 

[Modbert]

Of course, that does not mean everyone is ...

Good thing I never said that everyone is trying to cite that nobody was raising taxes.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Our debt is more of a function of too much spending; even repeal of the Bush cuts would do us very little good

We got here not because of too little tax but too much spending.
Unless of course one believes that ALL Govt spending at this level is required

Three Little Pigs: How Entitlements Will Destroy Us

Our national debt recently topped the $13 trillion mark. That amounts to nearly 90% of this country's GDP; $72,000 in debt for every household in America
Now add Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security, and Obama's 2011 budget has a $1.27 trillion deficit. It's the entitlements, stupid.

Nor can you tax your way out of debt. Eliminate all of the Bush tax cuts, including the tax cuts for low- and middle-income Americans, and you would reduce the debt by perhaps 10% — assuming you didn't cripple the economy in the process. Tax the rich? That won't get you there either. In fact, according to the Congressional Budget Office, in order to pay for all currently scheduled federal spending would require raising both the corporate tax rate and top income tax rate from their current 35% to 88%, the current 25% tax rate for middle-income workers to 63%, and the 10% tax bracket for low-income workers to 25%

There is simply no way to control our debt without getting serious about reforming entitlements.
​

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Gallup Americans Oppose Raising Debt Ceiling, 47% to 19%

CBS poll shows Americans oppose debt-ceiling hike 2-1

 

[WillowTree]

Hi, you have received -1 reputation points from Kuros.
Reputation was given for this post.

Comment:
Try substantive criticisms next time

You trying to censor my speech? If I don't like what you say should I neg rep you????? Tell me what should I do????

 

[Neotrotsky]

Of course, that does not mean everyone is ...

Good thing I never said that everyone is trying to cite that nobody was raising taxes.

I never said you did

I was clarifying a point; you would not want people to get the wrong idea

 

[Kuros]

Hi, you have received -1 reputation points from Kuros.
Reputation was given for this post.

Comment:
Try substantive criticisms next time

You trying to censor my speech? If I don't like what you say should I neg rep you????? Tell me what should I do????

The first thing you should do is stop whining and check again. I deleted the neg.

The second thing you should do is avoid calling me a "lieturd drone," at least until you do the legwork to catch me in a falsehood.

 

[WillowTree]

Hi, you have received -1 reputation points from Kuros.
Reputation was given for this post.

Comment:
Try substantive criticisms next time

You trying to censor my speech? If I don't like what you say should I neg rep you????? Tell me what should I do????

The first thing you should do is stop whining and check again. I deleted the neg.

The second thing you should do is avoid calling me a "lieturd drone," at least until you do the legwork to catch me in a falsehood.

So you interpret this as a whine? Really? over minus one O N E??

 

[boedicca]

Hi, you have received -1 reputation points from Kuros.
Reputation was given for this post.

Comment:
Try substantive criticisms next time

You trying to censor my speech? If I don't like what you say should I neg rep you????? Tell me what should I do????

The first thing you should do is stop whining and check again. I deleted the neg.

The second thing you should do is avoid calling me a "lieturd drone," at least until you do the legwork to catch me in a falsehood.

I'll just call you a deluded barking moonbat instead.

 

[WillowTree]

You trying to censor my speech? If I don't like what you say should I neg rep you????? Tell me what should I do????

The first thing you should do is stop whining and check again. I deleted the neg.

The second thing you should do is avoid calling me a "lieturd drone," at least until you do the legwork to catch me in a falsehood.

I'll just call you a deluded barking moonbat instead.

Oh now you've done it. Stand by. You're minus ONE is sure to come.

 

[Againsheila]

America's debt: Shame on them | The Economist

IN THREE weeks, if there is no political deal, the American government will go into default. Not, one must pray, on its sovereign debt. But the country will have to stop paying someone: perhaps pensioners, or government suppliers, or soldiers. That would be damaging enough at a time of economic fragility. And the longer such a default went on, the greater the risk of provoking a genuine bond crisis would become.

There is no good economic reason why this should be happening. America’s net indebtedness is a perfectly affordable 65% of GDP, and throughout the past three years of recession and tepid recovery investors have been more than happy to go on lending to the federal government. The current problems, rather, are political. Under America’s elaborate separation of powers, Congress must authorise any extension of the debt ceiling, which now stands at $14.3 trillion. Back in May the government bumped up against that limit, but various accounting dodges have been used to keep funds flowing. It is now reckoned that these wheezes will be exhausted by August 2nd.

Now, however, the Republicans are pushing things too far. Talks with the administration ground to a halt last month, despite an offer from the Democrats to cut at least $2 trillion and possibly much more out of the budget over the next ten years. Assuming that the recovery continues, that would be enough to get the deficit back to a prudent level. As The Economist went to press, Mr Obama seemed set to restart the talks.

The sticking-point is not on the spending side. It is because the vast majority of Republicans, driven on by the wilder-eyed members of their party and the cacophony of conservative media, are clinging to the position that not a single cent of deficit reduction must come from a higher tax take. This is economically illiterate and disgracefully cynical.

And the closer you look, the more unprincipled the Republicans look. Earlier this year House Republicans produced a report noting that an 85%-15% split between spending cuts and tax rises was the average for successful fiscal consolidations, according to historical evidence. The White House is offering an 83%-17% split (hardly a huge distance) and a promise that none of the revenue increase will come from higher marginal rates, only from eliminating loopholes. If the Republicans were real tax reformers, they would seize this offer.

Both parties have in recent months been guilty of fiscal recklessness. Right now, though, the blame falls clearly on the Republicans. Independent voters should take note.

The article sums up the current situation quite well.

Why even have a debt ceiling if we're just going to raise it all the time? Wouldn't it be nice, if when we hit the max on our credit cards, we could just raise it?