An Informal Debate on Race Relations in the United States Including Its History

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Yeah, and we all knew it from the beginning.

You can't have a debate with folks who aren't willing to debate honestly, or even acknowledge reality.

Which piece of "reality" do you not agree is factual or honest?
1. That the United States of America was founded on the premise of white supremecy OR
2. That there currently exists in the year 2020 white racists who subscribe to the belief of white supremecy and engage in racial discrimination in violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1964

It sounds like you all are attempting to claim that there are no white racists in the Unites States any longer. Surely that can't be your assertion.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

I am doing that.

You can also use the Report button to report them as Uninvited.

I can't believe IRose9 showed up

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

And how did you think I meant it from the context?

Did you really believe I was telling that individual to find a paying job?

Or was it more likely I was telling his lying, race-pimping ass to go fix the problems plaguing the community he claims to speak for his ownself instead of crying like a little bitch and pointing fingers at other people?

What is a race pimp and what has IM2 ever done to deserve that title?

And again, please stop the personal attacks and insults. This is the second time I've had to ask.

 

[freyasman]

Yeah, I didn't think so Does she know that you have such a low opinion of black people in general?

And you not knowing how to behave in mixed company has nothing to do with equality, it's a lack of basic social graces and skills.

LOL, do I? Or is that more projection?
I'm going to make sure I mention this to my uncle L, next time we're out riding. I'm sure he'll get a kick out of it.

I have great social skills nowadays, but I sure didn't always....... but why should I go to the effort? I'm not being paid here, and I don't have any kind of relationship with ya'll that I have an interest in maintaining, so what have you done for me that I should care about you?

 

[freyasman]

I'm really curious about this. Where you the way you are before you entered the military or did you become this way due to being in the military?

And what way is it you're referring to?

 

[freyasman]

Which piece of "reality" do you not agree is factual or honest?
1. That the United States of America was founded on the premise of white supremecy OR
2. That there currently exists in the year 2020 white racists who subscribe to the belief of white supremecy and engage in racial discrimination in violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1964

It sounds like you all are attempting to claim that there are no white racists in the Unites States any longer. Surely that can't be your assertion.

I'll take number 1 for $200 Alex, lol.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Translation: "These people won't take me and my bullshit seriously, wahh, wahhh!!!"

No, you made the claim that you were more intelligent than two of the more knowledgable black members on this board. Then in the Bull Ring call-out you said that you knew that, but didn't remember actually saying (posting) it, but I remember because I couldn't believe what I was reading.

So I figured maybe we all could possibly learn something from one another by having this discussion but I really wanted to see you demonstrate your superior intelligence since I know guys with your background, but alas all you've demonstrated is obstinance and hostility towards black people without a single shred of superior intelligence to be found.

White racists, ALWAYS so disappointing.

 

[freyasman]

No, you made the claim that you were more intelligent than two of the more knowledgable black members on this board. Then in the Bull Ring call-out you said that you knew that, but didn't remember actually saying (posting) it, but I remember because I couldn't believe what I was reading.

So I figured maybe we all could possibly learn something from one another by having this discussion but I really wanted to see you demonstrate your superior intelligence since I know guys with your background, but alas all you've demonstrated is obstinance and hostility towards black people without a single shred of superior intelligence to be found.

White racists, ALWAYS so disappointing.

This is the second time you claimed that; when and where did I do that?

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

And what way is it you're referring to?

You like beating up on people (you specifically mentioned "loud" "lower-class" black people) , you're hostile and think little of black people from what you've written. From your own writings you like getting phsyical/hands-on with people and dominating them (mounting them is what you wrote) that's why I mentioned in a previous thread that you sound like you work as a bouncer.

You exude aggression and I found it a little suprising that you train people in MOAB because from my observations you seem more like a person who would be ordered into anger management treatment.

So I was wondering if you've always been this way or did being in the military bring this out in you. That's I meant.

 

[OldLady]

all you've demonstrated is obstinance and hostility towards black people

IMHO, freyasman is an equal opportunity hothead. I'm white. Katsteve is black. Frey's got his ideas and for some reason he's got a hair trigger but it doesn't seem to be about race. He believes Western Civilization is superior and that everyone can figure out how to act "right" and get ahead. If they don't, he's not feeling sorry for them. I don't know that black or white is tangled up in that. But I don't take notes on the guy. It's just what I've heard so far in this thread.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

This is the second time you claimed that; when and where did I do that?

Actually I went back to try to find your comment and it appears that I was responding to something Iamwhatiseem had stated but in one of your threads.

So I was mistaken that you originally stated this, but since you're verified that is your opinion anyway, how about we start from there (I love it when that happens).

Please contribute something to the discussion other than insults.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

And how did you think I meant it from the context?

Did you really believe I was telling that individual to find a paying job?

Or was it more likely I was telling his lying, race-pimping ass to go fix the problems plaguing the community he claims to speak for his ownself instead of crying like a little bitch and pointing fingers at other people?

If white racism is the problem (according to the Kerner Report that IM2 posted) that's not something black people can solve other than documenting and reporting the continuing instances of racism and discrimination. It's up to the white race to police their own racists and put an end to the violations but as long as there are whites who insist that racism is not a problem in the U.S. today and accuse black people of playing the race card with every allegation, things will be contentious and progress will be slow.

There are people who work to sabatogue our efforts as well.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

LOL, do I? Or is that more projection?
I'm going to make sure I mention this to my uncle L, next time we're out riding. I'm sure he'll get a kick out of it.

I have great social skills nowadays, but I sure didn't always....... but why should I go to the effort? I'm not being paid here, and I don't have any kind of relationship with ya'll that I have an interest in maintaining, so what have you done for me that I should care about you?

So the only time you're polite is when you're being paid to do so? Is that like the only time a person acts as a decent human being is when they're paid to do so?

I guess I shouldn't be surprised by your attitude and just so we're clear I don't except anything from you. I personally however I believe I owe my fellow human beings common courtesy at least until they demonstrate that they don't deserve even that. It takes no more effort for me to be kind to others than to be insulting to them, in fact it takes less effort. I have always found it confounding that there are people in the world you don't even know me but who apparently hate me not due to anything that I've done to them or any of their loved ones, but simply because of who I am.

So back to the intelligence. Asclepias is not here but IM2 is. How are you measuring intelligence and just for the record this is not just idle curiosity on my part, I am truly interested in how you think, how your brain works.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

I'll take number 1 for $200 Alex, lol.

Oh, I had no idea, I was pretty sure this was common knowledge, well maybe not exactly "common" knowledge but that you all knew about it but just pretended not to. I'll post something for you, you might particularly find what the Navy thought of black men interesting. I know that's not the founders but we'll get to that eventually.

Oh and by the way, you might want to check with Porter Rockwell because he knows that the whites of the day intended for the United States to be for white people and their descendents only and for the black race to be subservient to them in perpetuity. They may have had a better argument if they hadn't needed all of that free black labor to help build their dream nation and they still did a pretty devastating number on every who wasn't white.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

I'll take number 1 for $200 Alex, lol.

So this is from your state and I'm just including the pertienent parts however the entire declarion can be accessed via this hyperlink:

A declaration of the causes which impel the State of Texas to secede from the Federal Union

"[snipped]
...Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated States to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility [sic] and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery--the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits--a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. [snipped]

In all the non-slave-holding States, in violation of that good faith and comity which should exist between entirely distinct nations, the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party, now strong enough in numbers to control the affairs of each of those States, based upon the unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of the equality of all men, irrespective of race or color--a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of the Divine Law. [snipped]

We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

That in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding States.

 

[Coyote]

You can also use the Report button to report them as Uninvited.

I can't believe IRose9 showed up

let me reiterate, please do that.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

I would guess that the ones that she doesn't like has nothing to do with race.

Isn't this true for any group though? Some people you have a natural affinity for and others you don't. Rarely is it because of race.

 

[Coyote]

Just a reminder folks..no insults, no flaming...regardless of what you think of a particular member...attack the ARGUMENT not the person.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Ahh... but you are removing the fact that there is choice.
As I said in the other thread, there is a HUGE difference in culture and statistics between inner-city blacks and suburban blacks. If you compared statistics between these two people, and treated black suburbans as another race - you would say the black suburbans are the privileged and there must be racism between the two.
The difference in statistics between black suburbans and inner city blacks are equal to the difference between them and whites. - How do you explain that Oldlady?

A choice regarding what?

 

[Coyote]

I'm not certain what you were trying to tell him. But It is a fairly frequent occurance to see some black posters being personally told by some white posters who know nothing about them to "get a job, get off welfare, pull your pants up, support your children"....etc, etc.


Which I personally find to be ignorant statements from extremely ignorant individuals, since I worked for nearly 45 years, 30 of which were in upper middle management, never was on welfare (nor was anyone in my family) and put my son and daughter through college. And there are many more just like me within my circle of friends and family.

As far as your assumptions about IM2, you should address those with him.

That is a good point.

We make assumptions about black members we would not dream of making about white members.