Debate Now An Unhappy Birthday for Obamacare?

[dblack]

- it's about time you fessed up. It's been very clear your interests are in selling us a 'system'. A system that will benefit your claimed 'nemesis' every bit as much as it benefits providers. Consumer and citizens are simply dupes to be 'managed' and milked.

Indeed, my job is to make sure insurers don't screw anybody out of their money. Kinda the opposite of your implication, huh? Thanks for the apology, asshole.

I don't buy that. You might have a genuine desire to protect the interests of the provider system you work for, but you're willing to sacrifice consumers to the insurance industry in the process, as mandated customers, as pawns in a backroom deal between the 'major players' of the health care industry and the federal government.

Even a lemon of a car can look great and drive off the lot well.

Social Security is a prime example.

I am afaid Obamacare looks to go the same direction.

Still dblack....I'd like to know what metrics you would put in place to track it's progress.

We'd need a reliable way to track the growth of the underground health care market.

 

[Foxfyre]

- it's about time you fessed up. It's been very clear your interests are in selling us a 'system'. A system that will benefit your claimed 'nemesis' every bit as much as it benefits providers. Consumer and citizens are simply dupes to be 'managed' and milked.

Indeed, my job is to make sure insurers don't screw anybody out of their money. Kinda the opposite of your implication, huh? Thanks for the apology, asshole.

I don't buy that. You might have a genuine desire to protect the interests of the provider system you work for, but you're willing to sacrifice consumers to the insurance industry in the process, as mandated customers, as pawns in a backroom deal between the 'major players' of the health care industry and the federal government.

Even a lemon of a car can look great and drive off the lot well.

Social Security is a prime example.

I am afaid Obamacare looks to go the same direction.

Still dblack....I'd like to know what metrics you would put in place to track it's progress.

We'd need a reliable way to track the growth of the underground health care market.

I have already noted that my aunt and uncle's doctor has opted out of the system already and is running a private practice that accepts no insurance. That may become more and more the trend as more healthcare professionals want to keep working but can't take the onerous rules, regulations, and limitations of Obamacare.

Here is another side effect that is becoming more and more apparent, i.e. those medical facilities who limit the insurance they will take under Obamacare if they take any at all. Even the famed Mayo Clinic now only accepts Blue Cross Blue Shield silver plan.

The Obama Administration has been claiming that insurance companies will be competing for your dollars under the Affordable Care Act, but apparently they haven't surveyed the nation's top hospitals.

Americans who sign up for Obamacare will be getting a big surprise if they expect to access premium health care that may have been previously covered under their personal policies. Most of the top hospitals will accept insurance from just one or two companies operating under Obamacare.

[CHART: Which Top Hospitals Take Your Insurance Under Obamacare?]

"This doesn't surprise me," said Gail Wilensky, Medicare advisor for the second Bush Administration and senior fellow for Project HOPE. "There has been an incredible amount of focus on the premium cost and subsidy, and precious little focus on what you get for your money."


Regulations driven by the Obama White House have indeed made insurance more affordable – if, like Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, you're looking only at price. But responding to Obamacare caps on premiums, many insurers will, in turn, simply offer top-tier doctors and hospitals far less cash for services rendered.

Watchdog.org looked at the top 18 hospitals nationwide as ranked by U.S. News and World Report for 2013-2014. We contacted each hospital to determine their contracts and talked to several insurance companies, as well.

The result of our investigation: Many top hospitals are simply opting out of Obamacare.

Chances are the individual plan you purchased outside Obamacare would allow you to go to these facilities. For example, fourth-ranked Cleveland Clinic accepts dozens of insurance plans if you buy one on your own. But go through Obamacare and you have just one choice: Medical Mutual of Ohio.
Top Hospitals Opt Out of Obamacare - US News​

 

[Foxfyre]

To illustrate further, we get our healthcare through what was an absolutely excellent HMO that operates only in parts of our state (though it covered emergency care when we travel.) It was affordable and people friendly--we felt loved, cared for and we received prompt, competent care when we needed it. But since Obamacare went into effect, premiums are 37% higher and copays and deductibles have doubled or more. And we are no longer assigned a personal doctor and medical facility close to our house we can count on--we have to take whomever is available wherever that person is even if it is all the way across town. We no longer feel loved, cared for, or know we can trust the person administering healthcare and we can't afford one of the private services.

So we're stuck. Better for us? Nope.

 

[LoneLaugher]

To illustrate further, we get our healthcare through what was an absolutely excellent HMO that operates only in parts of our state (though it covered emergency care when we travel.) It was affordable and people friendly--we felt loved, cared for and we received prompt, competent care when we needed it. But since Obamacare went into effect, premiums are 37% higher and copays and deductibles have doubled or more. And we are no longer assigned a personal doctor and medical facility close to our house we can count on--we have to take whomever is available wherever that person is even if it is all the way across town. We no longer feel loved, cared for, or know we can trust the person administering healthcare and we can't afford one of the private services.

So we're stuck. Better for us? Nope.

Man.....you sure have had a horrible experience with the Affordable Care Act. Its so sad. You don't feel loved anymore. Thanks Obama!

 

[dblack]

To illustrate further, we get our healthcare through what was an absolutely excellent HMO that operates only in parts of our state (though it covered emergency care when we travel.) It was affordable and people friendly--we felt loved, cared for and we received prompt, competent care when we needed it. But since Obamacare went into effect, premiums are 37% higher and copays and deductibles have doubled or more. And we are no longer assigned a personal doctor and medical facility close to our house we can count on--we have to take whomever is available wherever that person is even if it is all the way across town. We no longer feel loved, cared for, or know we can trust the person administering healthcare and we can't afford one of the private services.

So we're stuck. Better for us? Nope.

Man.....you sure have had a horrible experience with the Affordable Care Act. Its so sad. You don't feel loved anymore. Thanks Obama!

I don't see how it's fair to put it all on Obama. Granted, he could have, and should have, refused to sign it, but he didn't write it. All those who wrote it or voted for it should share the blame.

 

[LoneLaugher]

To illustrate further, we get our healthcare through what was an absolutely excellent HMO that operates only in parts of our state (though it covered emergency care when we travel.) It was affordable and people friendly--we felt loved, cared for and we received prompt, competent care when we needed it. But since Obamacare went into effect, premiums are 37% higher and copays and deductibles have doubled or more. And we are no longer assigned a personal doctor and medical facility close to our house we can count on--we have to take whomever is available wherever that person is even if it is all the way across town. We no longer feel loved, cared for, or know we can trust the person administering healthcare and we can't afford one of the private services.

So we're stuck. Better for us? Nope.

Man.....you sure have had a horrible experience with the Affordable Care Act. Its so sad. You don't feel loved anymore. Thanks Obama!

I don't see how it's fair to put it all on Obama. Granted, he could have, and should have, refused to sign it, but he didn't write it. All those who wrote it or voted for it should share the blame.

It's ALL Obama. It's called OBAMACARE!!

 

[dblack]

It's ALL Obama. It's called OBAMACARE!!

Well, it's called lots of things. I prefer imagery involving various animal waste products.

 

[Ravi]

This is all so weird. I go to the doctor, a claim is submitted to the insurance company. They pay what portion they agreed to pay and I pay whatever portion is left. Same as it always was.

Why would a doctor turn down a patient because part of the bill is paid by insurance? Well, they wouldn't. I can only conclude that what FF is being told is incorrect.

 

[Greenbeard]

Here is another side effect that is becoming more and more apparent, i.e. those medical facilities who limit the insurance they will take under Obamacare if they take any at all. Ev

Many of those hospitals on that list have (or are about to) launched their own insurance products they sell through the exchanges. Mayo partnered with Medica to offer a plan centered on their network. Mass General and Brigham and Women's own an insurer that provides access to their facilities through the Massachusetts exchange. UPMC offers its own plan (it was actually the cheapest available option in Pennsylvania's exchange in some rating areas this year). Cleveland Clinic is moving in that direction.

One of the reasons some of those hospitals are only in certain networks is that they're in the process is disrupting the old insurance market, offering cheaper access to their facilities and services by offering their own competing insurance plan directly to consumers. You know, innovation, competition, changes upsetting the old order. The number of insurance products created by health care providers themselves is growing quickly:

The other factor is that insurers are finally pushing back on the exorbitant prices that dominant hospitals/health systems command from them. Insurers have discovered they can build networks of equivalent quality while cutting out the highest priced provider systems and people will still buy their plans. That assertiveness is leading to more aggressive price negotiation (e.g., 6 recent hospital-insurer disputes, agreements) but also, ultimately, a more efficient and rationally priced provider system.

Getting skyrocketing prices under control using the market tools at hand isn't a "side effect," it's one of the points of doing all this.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't see forcing people into one or two insurance plans in order to access a hospital reasonably close to them as a good thing or an improvement no matter who is offering the insurance.

 

[Greenbeard]

I don't see forcing people into one or two insurance plans in order to access a hospital reasonably close to them as a good thing or an improvement no matter who is offering the insurance.

Participation of the major acute care hospitals within the city limits of Albuquerque in New Mexico exchange plans:

​	BCBS of NM​	NM Health Connections​	Molina​	CHRISTUS​	Presbyterian [URL='https://www.phs.org/locations/Pages/hospitals.aspx']Health Plan[/URL]​
Lovelace Medical Center​	✓​	✓​	✓​	​	​
Lovelace Westside Hospital​	✓​	✓​	✓​	​	​
Lovelace Women's Hospital​	✓​	✓​	✓​	​	​
UNM Hospital	✓​	✓​	✓​	​	​
Presbyterian Hospital​	​	​	​	✓​	✓​
Presbyterian Kaseman Hospital​	​	​	​	✓​	✓​

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The Presbyterian system has obviously launched a health insurance plan to provide access to their facilities directly, staying out of their (insurance) competitors' networks other than that of the Catholic provider-led plan CHRISTUS.

All of the other hospitals in the city are in the other health plans' networks. This is the part where an adult consumer makes a decision. Time to send those market signals!

 

[dblack]

I don't see forcing people into one or two insurance plans in order to access a hospital reasonably close to them as a good thing or an improvement no matter who is offering the insurance.

Participation of the major acute care hospitals within the city limits of Albuquerque in New Mexico exchange plans:

BCBS of NM​	NM Health Connections​	Molina​	CHRISTUS​	Presbyterian Health Plan​
Lovelace Medical Center​	✓​	✓​	✓​
Lovelace Westside Hospital​	✓​	✓​	✓​
Lovelace Women's Hospital​	✓​	✓​	✓​
UNM Hospital	✓​	✓​	✓​
Presbyterian Hospital​	✓​	✓​
Presbyterian Kaseman Hospital​	✓​	✓​

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The Presbyterian system has obviously launched a health insurance plan to provide access to their facilities directly, staying out of their (insurance) competitors' networks other than that of the Catholic provider-led plan CHRISTUS.

All of the other hospitals in the city are in the other health plans' networks. This is the part where an adult consumer makes a decision. Time to send those market signals!

re'

Here's a market signal. Stuff your worthless insurance up your ass! Can we send that signal? No. That right has been taken from us by the President and the shitbags in Congress.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I don't see forcing people into one or two insurance plans in order to access a hospital reasonably close to them as a good thing or an improvement no matter who is offering the insurance.

Participation of the major acute care hospitals within the city limits of Albuquerque in New Mexico exchange plans:

BCBS of NM​	NM Health Connections​	Molina​	CHRISTUS​	Presbyterian Health Plan​
Lovelace Medical Center​	✓​	✓​	✓​
Lovelace Westside Hospital​	✓​	✓​	✓​
Lovelace Women's Hospital​	✓​	✓​	✓​
UNM Hospital	✓​	✓​	✓​
Presbyterian Hospital​	✓​	✓​
Presbyterian Kaseman Hospital​	✓​	✓​

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The Presbyterian system has obviously launched a health insurance plan to provide access to their facilities directly, staying out of their (insurance) competitors' networks other than that of the Catholic provider-led plan CHRISTUS.

All of the other hospitals in the city are in the other health plans' networks. This is the part where an adult consumer makes a decision. Time to send those market signals!

re'

Here's a market signal. Stuff your worthless insurance up your ass! Can we send that signal? No. That right has been taken from us by the President and the shitbags in Congress.

The above post is not in keeping with the spirit of this forum.

 

[Carla_Danger]

I support parts of Obamacare, but think Republican's would be more supportive if we could change the name of it to Affordable Care Act. They seem to like it better that way.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

There is lots of internet traffic out there about how Hawaii's exchange is going to close.

Anyone care to comment ?

I don't know if it is true or not.

 

[LoneLaugher]

There is lots of internet traffic out there about how Hawaii's exchange is going to close.

Anyone care to comment ?

I don't know if it is true or not.

What sort of comments are you expecting? Cheers?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

What I read on the internet said it was not going to be funde

There is lots of internet traffic out there about how Hawaii's exchange is going to close.

Anyone care to comment ?

I don't know if it is true or not.

What sort of comments are you expecting? Cheers?

I am looking for anyone who might have more information.

All of the article headers are saying it is being shut down. But what I read says it is not being funded for next year.

Most of the hits in my search bring up right wing sites that simply say it is shutting down. I am not sure that is the case.

Just looking for anything that might have more insight.

I don't want to say it is shutting down if that is an interpretation of something else.

 

[Foxfyre]

All indications are that it is closing. And it is likely to not be the only state exchange that proves to be unfeasible.

Hawaii Says Aloha To Its 205 Million ObamaCare Exchange - Investors.com

 

[Foxfyre]

All indications are that it is closing. And it is likely to not be the only state exchange that proves to be unfeasible.

Hawaii Says Aloha To Its 205 Million ObamaCare Exchange - Investors.com

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Where is that 31 billion coming from ?

If you mean why is creating all those new primary care providers deficit neutral, that would be Title IX of the ACA: Revenue Offset Provisions.

If I read the first page or two correctly, that would be through taxes. Somebody else is funding that 31 billion.

Did I read that correctly ?

BTW: I am not reading a 233 page document. Next time, why not just say what it says so I'll know what you are pointing at.

All indications are that it is closing. And it is likely to not be the only state exchange that proves to be unfeasible.

Hawaii Says Aloha To Its 205 Million ObamaCare Exchange - Investors.com

I've seen a lot of this on the net.

I was just wondering if anyone had any more insights.

The following is something that is quoted quite often:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The exchange, called Hawaii Health Connector, never had much of a chance. In addition to its huge startup costs, its operating costs were far too high, given that only a little more than 12,000 people are enrolled. The federal government had been warning of a takeover if it couldn't figure out how to become self-sufficient.

"Now that it is clear that the state will not provide sufficient support for the Hawaii Health Connector's operations through fiscal year 2016 (ending June 30, 2016), the Connector can no longer operate in a manner that would cause it to incur additional debts or other obligations for which it is unable to pay," officials said on all health insurance customers across the state, while also boosting the fee charged on customers who buy from the exchange from 1.4% to as high as 4.5%.

Read More At Investor's Business Daily: Hawaii Says Aloha To Its 205 Million ObamaCare Exchange - Investors.com
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