Another school shooting....time to arm the teachers?

[JoeB131]

[

do you own any firearms?

Nope. Don't need them, don't want them.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The much needed discussion on gun-control.

Yes?

They aren't decreasing, their increasing. In both frequency and verocity.

An elementary school...that's a new low.

And BTW, the answer ain't arm everyone...we're not going back to the cowboy days of the wild, wild West.

The Wild West was a much safer place.

could be the dumbest comment of all time

Try getting your history from actual HISTORY, rather than from Hollywood.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/viewpoints/articles/0717hill0717.html?&wired

In his book, Frontier Violence: Another Look, author W. Eugene Hollon, provides us with these astonishing facts:

•In Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita, Dodge City, and Caldwell, for the years from 1870 to 1885, there were only 45 total homicides. This equates to a rate of approximately 1 murder per 100,000 residents per year.
•In Abilene, supposedly one of the wildest of the cow towns, not a single person was killed in 1869 or 1870.

Zooming forward over a century to 2007, a quick look at Uniform Crime Report statistics shows us the following regarding the aforementioned gun control “paradise” cities of the east:

•DC – 183 Murders (31 per 100,000 residents)
•New York – 494 Murders (6 per 100,000 residents)
•Baltimore – 281 Murders (45 per 100,000 residents)
•Newark – 104 Murders (37 per 100,000 residents)

Dispelling the myth of 'The Wild West' - Minneapolis gun rights | Examiner.com

 

[Oddball]

Sigh the simple solution is you lock all doors, and people need to be buzzed in. That will make it harder, but then you need a simple medal detector once inside. Mostly just for the adults coming in.

This would take funding, so not sure if people would be ok with it.

The easy fix to this is that there is no easy fix to this.

The shooter shot out the window next to the door, making buzzing him in a dead letter.

And even if there was no window, that wouldn't preclude someone from shooting off the door latching mechanism.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The statements are wrong. Anyone can look up the actual populations of the various communities, do the math, and realize that the author is either ignorant or lying. For instance, Ellsworth in 1870 had a population of 458. The other towns were similar. Nobody killed in Abiline in 1870: that would surprise the Town Marshall who was killed in the line of duty that year.

Buncha crap by Cecilieminus2. Nothing new there. Radicals will lie.

The Wild West was a much safer place.

could be the dumbest comment of all time

Try getting your history from actual HISTORY, rather than from Hollywood.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/viewpoints/articles/0717hill0717.html?&wired

In his book, Frontier Violence: Another Look, author W. Eugene Hollon, provides us with these astonishing facts:

•In Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita, Dodge City, and Caldwell, for the years from 1870 to 1885, there were only 45 total homicides. This equates to a rate of approximately 1 murder per 100,000 residents per year.
•In Abilene, supposedly one of the wildest of the cow towns, not a single person was killed in 1869 or 1870.

Zooming forward over a century to 2007, a quick look at Uniform Crime Report statistics shows us the following regarding the aforementioned gun control “paradise” cities of the east:

•DC – 183 Murders (31 per 100,000 residents)
•New York – 494 Murders (6 per 100,000 residents)
•Baltimore – 281 Murders (45 per 100,000 residents)
•Newark – 104 Murders (37 per 100,000 residents)

Dispelling the myth of 'The Wild West' - Minneapolis gun rights | Examiner.com

 

[Cecilie1200]

Ah, yes. The typical LOLberal knee jerk to having a shooting take place in victim zones.

Tell us more of how criminals who weild fire arms will obey the law? And how disarming the people will lead to less acts of gun violence by criminals who do not obey the law. Tell us all about it.

Ah, yes the typical moronic defense of the Second Amendment. 20 killed, some kids in the latest report, and a gun nut - likely an NRA supporter - focuses solely on his rights. What rights do the victims have (or had) and what of their parents, their siblings, other students, the school staff, journalists and first responders?

You sit safely and immune to the carnage behind your keyboard and defend your right to own a weapon and argue that this right cannot be infringed. Well, as long as gun nuts like you, and the NRA refuse to come to the table and find a safe and sane compromise on some form of gun control carnage will continue to occur. Even if 'you' came to the table it's likely such horrific events will continue to take place.

But don't sweat it, you're safe, sitting at your keyboard and never needing to see the physical consequences of murdered children or watch the grief of their parents and siblings, grandparents and school chums.

Isn't it time to take out that hand gun you own and clean it, fondle it lovingly and thank the founders for giving you the right to own a tool capable of killing other human beings?

Why do you think guys like this choose schools or theaters, could it be they know they won't be opposed. Creating gun free zones (free kill zones) are part of the problem. Having responsible armed citizens any where and every where would be a deterrent for these types of incidents. I have a CHL and pray I never find myself in a position where my gun would be needed, but I would not hesitate to protect myself or others if the situation called for it.

I tell you, if I owned a shopping mall or movie theater, the FIRST thing I would do is hire armed security guards. The SECOND thing I would do is put up signs saying, "Gun owners are welcome to carry in this establishment". Hell, I might offer discounts for customers with a firearm and a valid license for it.

 

[bayoubill]

Ah, yes. The typical LOLberal knee jerk to having a shooting take place in victim zones.

Tell us more of how criminals who weild fire arms will obey the law? And how disarming the people will lead to less acts of gun violence by criminals who do not obey the law. Tell us all about it.

Ah, yes the typical moronic defense of the Second Amendment. 20 killed, some kids in the latest report, and a gun nut - likely an NRA supporter - focuses solely on his rights. What rights do the victims have (or had) and what of their parents, their siblings, other students, the school staff, journalists and first responders?

You sit safely and immune to the carnage behind your keyboard and defend your right to own a weapon and argue that this right cannot be infringed. Well, as long as gun nuts like you, and the NRA refuse to come to the table and find a safe and sane compromise on some form of gun control carnage will continue to occur. Even if 'you' came to the table it's likely such horrific events will continue to take place.

But don't sweat it, you're safe, sitting at your keyboard and never needing to see the physical consequences of murdered children or watch the grief of their parents and siblings, grandparents and school chums.

Isn't it time to take out that hand gun you own and clean it, fondle it lovingly and thank the founders for giving you the right to own a tool capable of killing other human beings?

I've read a lotta stuff on both sides of the issue these last several hours...

and I gotta say... you are one sick fuck, my friend...

 

[HUGGY]

Ah, yes the typical moronic defense of the Second Amendment. 20 killed, some kids in the latest report, and a gun nut - likely an NRA supporter - focuses solely on his rights. What rights do the victims have (or had) and what of their parents, their siblings, other students, the school staff, journalists and first responders?

You sit safely and immune to the carnage behind your keyboard and defend your right to own a weapon and argue that this right cannot be infringed. Well, as long as gun nuts like you, and the NRA refuse to come to the table and find a safe and sane compromise on some form of gun control carnage will continue to occur. Even if 'you' came to the table it's likely such horrific events will continue to take place.

But don't sweat it, you're safe, sitting at your keyboard and never needing to see the physical consequences of murdered children or watch the grief of their parents and siblings, grandparents and school chums.

Isn't it time to take out that hand gun you own and clean it, fondle it lovingly and thank the founders for giving you the right to own a tool capable of killing other human beings?

Why do you think guys like this choose schools or theaters, could it be they know they won't be opposed. Creating gun free zones (free kill zones) are part of the problem. Having responsible armed citizens any where and every where would be a deterrent for these types of incidents. I have a CHL and pray I never find myself in a position where my gun would be needed, but I would not hesitate to protect myself or others if the situation called for it.

I tell you, if I owned a shopping mall or movie theater, the FIRST thing I would do is hired armed security guards. The SECOND thing I would do is put up signs saying, "Gun owners are welcome to carry in this establishment". Hell, I might offer discounts for customers with a firearm and a valid license for it.

Ya... then eventually there would be a shoot out that kills several people and your ass would be sued into oblivion.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Not sure if this is all factual but:

It is being reported the now dead gunman is in his 20s, was buzzed in, was wearing camo pants and was heard arguing with someone before he started walking from classroom to classroom shooting. Reports are an entire kindergarten class was gunned down.

24 and a parent, had a vest on as well.

Wonder if an armed officer could have even taken him out, much less a kindergarten teacher.

This is getting more horrible by the minute.

I tried to get thru an entire news report w/o tearing up & can't do it.

This sucks!

What, because shooting people is so difficult to do? HE managed it pretty well.

Truth is, shooting rampages like this HAVE been stopped by armed civilians before. The media just doesn't want to report it.

 

[beagle9]

And yet Israeli citizens are well armed as are the Swiss, and nobody is showing up at their schools to gun down children. In our previous generations probably most Americans owned firearms and older school children had them in their vehicles at school because they went hunting early that morning or planned to do so after school. But nobody worried about anybody going berserk with a weapon at school. It isn't a poblem with guns. It is a problem with the culture.

Well Americans don't have a militant identified group of people living right next door to them (walking distance), whom want all Israeli's dead, so the picture is not truly related to the total situation as found in America, but then again with us not knowing where these attacks could come from next, it could be germain to the situation now.. Someone said that this is the same as terrorism in this nation now, and yes I would agree with that also.. It is terrorism tactics and methods that are being used now, the only thing is, is that these are domestic born terrorist we are dealing with, in which is just as bad as foriegn born terrorist if not worse actually.

 

[squeeze berry]

[

do you own any firearms?

Nope. Don't need them, don't want them.

now I know where to get some free stuff

 

[JoeB131]

[

do you own any firearms?

Nope. Don't need them, don't want them.

now I know where to get some free stuff

You mean not the welfare office where you normally get it?

 

[squeeze berry]

Nope. Don't need them, don't want them.

now I know where to get some free stuff

You mean not the welfare office where you normally get it?

that made me chuckle there Josephine

 

[beagle9]

Truth is, shooting rampages like this HAVE been stopped by armed civilians before. The media just doesn't want to report it.

Yes, and they don't hype it like they do the bad ones either, but maybe they should go back to hyping the good guy's a little more in the media than they do the bad guy's these days, it sure wouldn't hurt none... The devil's spirit is more in control as found within men now in this nation, and this is being found more than ever before in this nation, and we refuse to acknowledge this fact in America now, even though we see this right in front of our very own eyes on a daily basis now...Wake Up America...wow

 

[Foxfyre]

Ah, yes the typical moronic defense of the Second Amendment. 20 killed, some kids in the latest report, and a gun nut - likely an NRA supporter - focuses solely on his rights. What rights do the victims have (or had) and what of their parents, their siblings, other students, the school staff, journalists and first responders?

You sit safely and immune to the carnage behind your keyboard and defend your right to own a weapon and argue that this right cannot be infringed. Well, as long as gun nuts like you, and the NRA refuse to come to the table and find a safe and sane compromise on some form of gun control carnage will continue to occur. Even if 'you' came to the table it's likely such horrific events will continue to take place.

But don't sweat it, you're safe, sitting at your keyboard and never needing to see the physical consequences of murdered children or watch the grief of their parents and siblings, grandparents and school chums.

Isn't it time to take out that hand gun you own and clean it, fondle it lovingly and thank the founders for giving you the right to own a tool capable of killing other human beings?

Why do you think guys like this choose schools or theaters, could it be they know they won't be opposed. Creating gun free zones (free kill zones) are part of the problem. Having responsible armed citizens any where and every where would be a deterrent for these types of incidents. I have a CHL and pray I never find myself in a position where my gun would be needed, but I would not hesitate to protect myself or others if the situation called for it.

I tell you, if I owned a shopping mall or movie theater, the FIRST thing I would do is hired armed security guards. The SECOND thing I would do is put up signs saying, "Gun owners are welcome to carry in this establishment". Hell, I might offer discounts for customers with a firearm and a valid license for it.

Yep. Chicago has some of the most strict gun control laws in the country, but has one of the most violent record re gun crimes. So they are in the process of letting citizens lawfully carry. Will it make a difference? If the gun control advocates are not successful in reversing the new law, it will be really interesting to watch. Is the new law being so hotly contested because some fear it WILL significantly reduce gun crime?

Within six months, lawful citizens in Chicago – the site of 2,364 shootings and 487 homicides so far this year – can carry concealed weapons in public for defense, the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals ruled Tuesday.
Concealed weapons: Illinois's last-in-the-nation ban must go, US court rules - CSMonitor.com

“Many defensive gun uses never make the news,” the report said. “After all, ‘Man Scares away Burglar, No Shots Fired’ is not particularly newsworthy.”

Among the researchers’ findings were 285 incidents involving concealed carry licenses, 154 instances involving defensive gun use by women, and 21 cases for minors and 201 for seniors. For specific crimes, 65 carjackings saw defensive gun usage, as did 25 rapes.
The authors also said concealed carry policies on college campuses lead to a reduction in crime, using two Colorado schools as test cases. After the state enacted its concealed carry law in 2003, Colorado State University decided to allow students to carry concealed weapons while the University of Colorado prohibited them. The report found a 60 percent decrease in crime at Colorado State since 2004, while the University of Colorado saw a 35 percent increase during the same time period.

“(It does not) seem likely that a would-be robber would be deterred because of stickers on the doors announcing that armed robbery is severely frowned upon by the student code of conduct,” the report said. “Conversely, a campus that allows concealed carry, and where even one student, professor, or even a member of the maintenance staff is armed, would present a much riskier target to criminals.”
Concealed carry prevents more crime than it creates, study says | The Marquette Tribune

BOILING SPRINGS, S.C. (AP) — A South Carolina sheriff is praising a man with a concealed weapons permit who helped disarm someone who kicked in the door of a church armed with a shotgun.
Sheriff: Concealed Weapon Saves Church From Man Armed With Shotgun « CBS Charlotte

Police say about 5:30 p.m. on Dec. 3, a man walked into Modern Nails at 2645 E. Second St. and asked a female employee if she wanted to buy some diamonds. The man walked toward the front desk area and the woman replied that she had no money to buy diamonds.
A witness said the man then reached into his coat pocket and began to take out a silver-colored pistol.

At that moment, a woman who was getting her nails done reached into her purse and got her own firearm. Police say the man never fully raised the gun and left the building after seeing the customer had her weapon out.
Casper Police: Nail salon customer packs heat, gunman leaves

Conversely, you have to hunt long and hard to find an instance of gun crime committed by anybody packing a visible weapon—legal in New Mexico for instance though few do—or anybody packing a legally licensed concealed weapon.

But does anybody believe that 20 kindergarteners and 7 staff would be dead today at the Sandy Hook school if a half dozen or so teachers had weapons and were trained in how and when to use them?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

And yet Israeli citizens are well armed as are the Swiss, and nobody is showing up at their schools to gun down children. In our previous generations probably most Americans owned firearms and older school children had them in their vehicles at school because they went hunting early that morning or planned to do so after school. But nobody worried about anybody going berserk with a weapon at school. It isn't a poblem with guns. It is a problem with the culture.

Well Americans don't have a militant identified group of people living right next door to them (walking distance), whom want all Israeli's dead, so the picture is not truly related to the total situation as found in America, but then again with us not knowing where these attacks could come from next, it could be germain to the situation now.. Someone said that this is the same as terrorism in this nation now, and yes I would agree with that also.. It is terrorism tactics and methods that are being used now, the only thing is, is that these are domestic born terrorist we are dealing with, in which is just as bad as foriegn born terrorist if not worse actually.

We do have the Mexican drug cartels, just saying.

 

[Gadawg73]

And yet Israeli citizens are well armed as are the Swiss, and nobody is showing up at their schools to gun down children. In our previous generations probably most Americans owned firearms and older school children had them in their vehicles at school because they went hunting early that morning or planned to do so after school. But nobody worried about anybody going berserk with a weapon at school. It isn't a poblem with guns. It is a problem with the culture.

Well Americans don't have a militant identified group of people living right next door to them (walking distance), whom want all Israeli's dead, so the picture is not truly related to the total situation as found in America, but then again with us not knowing where these attacks could come from next, it could be germain to the situation now.. Someone said that this is the same as terrorism in this nation now, and yes I would agree with that also.. It is terrorism tactics and methods that are being used now, the only thing is, is that these are domestic born terrorist we are dealing with, in which is just as bad as foriegn born terrorist if not worse actually.

We have an identified group that WANTS TO TAKE OUR PROPERTY.
What constitutes defense is not the issue.
We have a Constitutional right to defend ourselves and with guns.
No matter the situation.

 

[BallsBrunswick]

Why do you think guys like this choose schools or theaters, could it be they know they won't be opposed. Creating gun free zones (free kill zones) are part of the problem. Having responsible armed citizens any where and every where would be a deterrent for these types of incidents. I have a CHL and pray I never find myself in a position where my gun would be needed, but I would not hesitate to protect myself or others if the situation called for it.

I tell you, if I owned a shopping mall or movie theater, the FIRST thing I would do is hired armed security guards. The SECOND thing I would do is put up signs saying, "Gun owners are welcome to carry in this establishment". Hell, I might offer discounts for customers with a firearm and a valid license for it.

Yep. Chicago has some of the most strict gun control laws in the country, but has one of the most violent record re gun crimes. So they are in the process of letting citizens lawfully carry. Will it make a difference? If the gun control advocates are not successful in reversing the new law, it will be really interesting to watch. Is the new law being so hotly contested because some fear it WILL significantly reduce gun crime?

BOILING SPRINGS, S.C. (AP) — A South Carolina sheriff is praising a man with a concealed weapons permit who helped disarm someone who kicked in the door of a church armed with a shotgun.
Sheriff: Concealed Weapon Saves Church From Man Armed With Shotgun « CBS Charlotte

Police say about 5:30 p.m. on Dec. 3, a man walked into Modern Nails at 2645 E. Second St. and asked a female employee if she wanted to buy some diamonds. The man walked toward the front desk area and the woman replied that she had no money to buy diamonds.
A witness said the man then reached into his coat pocket and began to take out a silver-colored pistol.

At that moment, a woman who was getting her nails done reached into her purse and got her own firearm. Police say the man never fully raised the gun and left the building after seeing the customer had her weapon out.
Casper Police: Nail salon customer packs heat, gunman leaves

Conversely, you have to hunt long and hard to find an instance of gun crime committed by anybody packing a visible weapon—legal in New Mexico for instance though few do—or anybody packing a legally licensed concealed weapon.

But does anybody believe that 20 kindergarteners and 7 staff would be dead today at the Sandy Hook school if a half dozen or so teachers had weapons and were trained in how and when to use them?

Yeah, crossfire would've made the situation much better.

 

[Oddball]

And yet Israeli citizens are well armed as are the Swiss, and nobody is showing up at their schools to gun down children. In our previous generations probably most Americans owned firearms and older school children had them in their vehicles at school because they went hunting early that morning or planned to do so after school. But nobody worried about anybody going berserk with a weapon at school. It isn't a poblem with guns. It is a problem with the culture.

Well Americans don't have a militant identified group of people living right next door to them (walking distance), whom want all Israeli's dead, so the picture is not truly related to the total situation as found in America, but then again with us not knowing where these attacks could come from next, it could be germain to the situation now.. Someone said that this is the same as terrorism in this nation now, and yes I would agree with that also.. It is terrorism tactics and methods that are being used now, the only thing is, is that these are domestic born terrorist we are dealing with, in which is just as bad as foriegn born terrorist if not worse actually.

We do have the Mexican drug cartels, just saying.

Hell, we have American drug gangs, shooting it out in the streets.

 

[Gadawg73]

I tell ya what... if this school yard shooting makes a lot of people scream gun control then just wait until some mentally unbalanced piece of shit sneaks a couple of uzi's and several big ass clips into a football stadium and cuts loose. Then the nra will have no choice. Let's see a hundred people get killed all on tv-like. You know it is bound to happen. If we don't at least make an effort at finding these whackos before they can play out thier insane fantasies the public will demand and get SOME serious gun control.

If such a thing happens on any given Sunday you can kiss assault weapons, big clips and maybe anything with more amunition in it than a 6 shot revolver Bye bye.

You know it's true.

So no one used weapons in your days of smuggling?
Sure, right.

 

[Oddball]

Yeah, crossfire would've made the situation much better.

Would have had it occurred in the hallways or administrative offices, rather in a room full of unarmed children.