Another school shooting....time to arm the teachers?

[Aristotle]

No, it didn't "need clarification". We've been "clarifying" it for 120 pages or so. The fact that you either 1) didn't bother to read those pages before spouting off, 2) read them but didn't bother comprehending and internalizing the messages there, or 3) were too thick to understand what you read does not obligate anyone else to treat with any seriousness and respect you coming in and blankly saying, "So . . . what was your position again?"

Furthermore, I can't see what difference being a bigger country than Israel has to do with letting teachers who are permitted to carry do so, and I also don't see how Israel being at war makes them "moot" as an example. It doesn't really matter to me WHAT the motivations are of the crazed gunman attacking our children.

Let me spell it out for you. The reason why Israel is a horrible example is because the current state of Israel is about protection of its citizens, from inside and out.

Well, I can see where Americans wouldn't want any truck with protecting its citizens. What a silly idea!

They are in constant danger of either being invaded, or infiltrated. We don't have that problem. Our concerns are the current wars, fiscal cliffs, and the internal strife we like to call "war on drugs."

You forgot being overrun with the various, garden-variety criminals the left so loves to coddle (or were you imagining that all crime in the United States is due to "the war on drugs"?) and occasionally being mowed down in the process of our daily lives by the occasional homicidal lunatic.

Pretty sure I'm still back at not caring what the motivation is behind the bullet aimed at my children.

The idea that teachers in Israel packing guns does nothing for the advancement of the proponents argument that teachers arming themselves as being a logical solution to school violence.

Thanks, but I actually understood what your idea was. MY point was that it's nonsensical bullshit, and I think I'm going to consider that my final answer.

Its nonsensical bullshit yet you cannot:

1) Explain how you can factor the budgeting issues of equipping teachers in school districts who are already having a budgeting crisis

2) Demonstrate how using real world examples of teachers actually killing suspected shooters actually supports the argument that teachers ought to be armed.

3) You cannot coherently display a cohesive view of how arming teachers even though school has police presence, prevents future school shootings.

Let's stop this ridiculous nonsense of calling each other's comments bullshit and let us converse philosophically as to how the other person's views is nonsensical.

I'm sick of you sensationalist gun freaks telling me "let's arm the teachers, because your comments are bullshit"

I just laid out a budgeting argument and nobody, not one person with some sense in mind has tackled that. I gave you guys the current budget of California both our state capital and Los Angeles and even provided links for reference and not one person touched that. I explained in detail that every teacher that becomes certified in the state of California to teach does not voluntarily go out and get a concealed weapons permit. We are not Texas nor are we the stand-your-ground-florida. California is one of the most strict gun law states in the United States.

I am asking you guys to tackle this problem which you failed to do.

This is the last time I will answer these questions so allow me to reformat them. If you fail to answer it or are unable to then I will realize that with all your bickering and name calling that you do not have a universal answer to a localized problem.

1) In a state such as California that has fiscal issues, how does every single teacher, from pre-school, to kindergarten, to elementary, to high school, to college how does the state provide for permits, bulletproof vests, training, and certification?

2) Once certified, what do we do with the annual pay-out of $104 million for police officers who are present on school campuses along with the annual re-cert for armed teachers? (Remember every two years a teacher not only has to re-cert for a gun permit, but also for their license which will cost districts more money).

3) If teachers are armed yet their needs to be school cut backs such as after-school programs along with other extra-cirricular activities is it necessary to cut those programs in order to sustain the budgeting to allow teachers to have bullet proof vests, sidearms, and the necessary tools to defend themselves?

 

[Aristotle]

The media has so far accomplished its goal in frightening the public in thinking that a teacher with a gun in a classroom is the safest bet, yet do not consider the following:

Temporary insanity.

Anyone presently sane can pass a psychological evaluation (MMPI) especially if they're consistent in their responses, but what about afterwards? What about people who have marital issues, or family crisis or even better yet, what about their homes being forclosed along with going through all three? What if a teacher snaps and decides to kill him/herself along with the kids in the classroom, then what?

Or what about accidental discharges in the classroom? What if the teacher accidentally discharges their weapon in the classroom and in some freakish way someone other than the teacher gets hit?

 

[beagle9]

Since Jim likes to hurl insults it is thus we've come to an en passé.


If someone can show me proof that a teacher from any country popped off at a school shooter protecting a lot of kids in a classroom I may jump on board.

They popped off alright, and it was at the shooter, only sad part is, is that they just tried using their naked skin & bones to confront him when doing so, Oh and guess what ? It didn't work so well for them, nor for the children who relied on someone near helping them or for the calvary to arrive finally..

When arrived it was liken to the Alamo awaiting their back up or rescue to come as well, and yet never did it come on time, but the Alamo was a less gruesome scene I imagine in comparrison to, and this after looking at these little children laying dead with their un-armed teachers at their side who were also dead. Now what part of DEAD don't you understand ?

 

[beagle9]

The media has so far accomplished its goal in frightening the public in thinking that a teacher with a gun in a classroom is the safest bet, yet do not consider the following:

Temporary insanity.

Anyone presently sane can pass a psychological evaluation (MMPI) especially if they're consistent in their responses, but what about afterwards? What about people who have marital issues, or family crisis or even better yet, what about their homes being forclosed along with going through all three? What if a teacher snaps and decides to kill him/herself along with the kids in the classroom, then what?

Or what about accidental discharges in the classroom? What if the teacher accidentally discharges their weapon in the classroom and in some freakish way someone other than the teacher gets hit?

Then what ? Well you answered the most important question with the beginning of your post, where as the good civilian being armed is the only immediate help to intervene and save lives until the cops or whomever else finally gets there.... It's simple man, just think about it with some common sense PLEASE!

 

[Aristotle]

Since Jim likes to hurl insults it is thus we've come to an en passé.


If someone can show me proof that a teacher from any country popped off at a school shooter protecting a lot of kids in a classroom I may jump on board.

They popped off alright, and it was at the shooter, only sad part is, is that they just tried using their naked skin & bones to confront him when doing so, Oh and guess what ? It didn't work so well for them, nor for the children who relied on someone near helping them or for the calvary to arrive finally..

When arrived it was liken to the Alamo awaiting their back up or rescue to come as well, and yet never did it come on time, but the Alamo was a less gruesome scene I imagine in comparrison to, and this after looking at these little children laying dead with their un-armed teachers at their side who were also dead.

Do you have evidence or not?

 

[Aristotle]

The media has so far accomplished its goal in frightening the public in thinking that a teacher with a gun in a classroom is the safest bet, yet do not consider the following:

Temporary insanity.

Anyone presently sane can pass a psychological evaluation (MMPI) especially if they're consistent in their responses, but what about afterwards? What about people who have marital issues, or family crisis or even better yet, what about their homes being forclosed along with going through all three? What if a teacher snaps and decides to kill him/herself along with the kids in the classroom, then what?

Or what about accidental discharges in the classroom? What if the teacher accidentally discharges their weapon in the classroom and in some freakish way someone other than the teacher gets hit?

Then what ? Well you answered the most important question with the beginning of your post, where as the good civilian being armed is the only immediate help to intervene and save lives until the cops or whomever else finally gets there.... It's simple man, just think about it with some common sense PLEASE!

I am thinking common sense......Just like the 11 year old who brought a gun to school because he wanted to protect himself from a future school attacker

Utah boy brings gun to school, cites Newtown fears - Yahoo! News

Or like this guy

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...-theater-showing-batman-movie-police-say?lite

 

[ABikerSailor]

The media has so far accomplished its goal in frightening the public in thinking that a teacher with a gun in a classroom is the safest bet, yet do not consider the following:

Temporary insanity.

Anyone presently sane can pass a psychological evaluation (MMPI) especially if they're consistent in their responses, but what about afterwards? What about people who have marital issues, or family crisis or even better yet, what about their homes being forclosed along with going through all three? What if a teacher snaps and decides to kill him/herself along with the kids in the classroom, then what?

Or what about accidental discharges in the classroom? What if the teacher accidentally discharges their weapon in the classroom and in some freakish way someone other than the teacher gets hit?

These are valid points. I'd like to offer another one as well.

Most people who aren't military trained don't really know what they'd do in a situation where they're in a live firefight. How do you know they won't freeze up or start squeezing off random rounds?

 

[Unkotare]

The media has so far accomplished its goal in frightening the public in thinking that a teacher with a gun in a classroom is the safest bet, yet do not consider the following:

Temporary insanity.

Anyone presently sane can pass a psychological evaluation (MMPI) especially if they're consistent in their responses, but what about afterwards? What about people who have marital issues, or family crisis or even better yet, what about their homes being forclosed along with going through all three? What if a teacher snaps and decides to kill him/herself along with the kids in the classroom, then what?

Or what about accidental discharges in the classroom? What if the teacher accidentally discharges their weapon in the classroom and in some freakish way someone other than the teacher gets hit?

These are valid points. I'd like to offer another one as well.

Most people who aren't military trained don't really know what they'd do in a situation where they're in a live firefight. How do you know they won't freeze up or start squeezing off random rounds?

Do even militarily trained people know that until they've been in such a situation?

 

[ABikerSailor]

The media has so far accomplished its goal in frightening the public in thinking that a teacher with a gun in a classroom is the safest bet, yet do not consider the following:

Temporary insanity.

Anyone presently sane can pass a psychological evaluation (MMPI) especially if they're consistent in their responses, but what about afterwards? What about people who have marital issues, or family crisis or even better yet, what about their homes being forclosed along with going through all three? What if a teacher snaps and decides to kill him/herself along with the kids in the classroom, then what?

Or what about accidental discharges in the classroom? What if the teacher accidentally discharges their weapon in the classroom and in some freakish way someone other than the teacher gets hit?

These are valid points. I'd like to offer another one as well.

Most people who aren't military trained don't really know what they'd do in a situation where they're in a live firefight. How do you know they won't freeze up or start squeezing off random rounds?

Do even militarily trained people know that until they've been in such a situation?

They may not know how they feel about it, but I can guarantee you that with all the training they go through, it becomes a reflex response. In my first real fire at sea, I didn't know how I'd react, but because of all the drilling and training I'd done, I didn't really think about much other than what my training taught me until after the fire was out.

And............when I was a member of the Security Forces in Newport RI, even though there was never a situation that I had to actually draw my weapon on someone, I was pretty confident that if something did occur, all the time at the range (doing tactical training, running around the range and shooting from various positions like from doorways, windows and behind low walls), that I'd be able to respond properly.

I did that at least once a month, every month, for 2 1/2 years.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

These are valid points. I'd like to offer another one as well.

Most people who aren't military trained don't really know what they'd do in a situation where they're in a live firefight. How do you know they won't freeze up or start squeezing off random rounds?

Do even militarily trained people know that until they've been in such a situation?

They may not know how they feel about it, but I can guarantee you that with all the training they go through, it becomes a reflex response. In my first real fire at sea, I didn't know how I'd react, but because of all the drilling and training I'd done, I didn't really think about much other than what my training taught me until after the fire was out.

And............when I was a member of the Security Forces in Newport RI, even though there was never a situation that I had to actually draw my weapon on someone, I was pretty confident that if something did occur, all the time at the range (doing tactical training, running around the range and shooting from various positions like from doorways, windows and behind low walls), that I'd be able to respond properly.

I did that at least once a month, every month, for 2 1/2 years.

That sounds like what I do once a month.

 

[Unkotare]

They may not know how they feel about it, but I can guarantee you that with all the training they go through, it becomes a reflex response. In my first real fire at sea, I didn't know how I'd react, but because of all the drilling and training I'd done, I didn't really think about much other than what my training taught me until after the fire was out.

Wait, what kind of "firefight" were you talking about?

 

[ABikerSailor]

They may not know how they feel about it, but I can guarantee you that with all the training they go through, it becomes a reflex response. In my first real fire at sea, I didn't know how I'd react, but because of all the drilling and training I'd done, I didn't really think about much other than what my training taught me until after the fire was out.

Wait, what kind of "firefight" were you talking about?

I was telling you of a situation that I'd actually gone through that was dangerous and would have most people running in the opposite direction, but, because of my repeated training, I didn't think about it much until after the situation was over. I then told you about the weapons training I'd gone through in Security Forces, and even though I'd never actually had to draw my weapon on someone for real, I'm pretty sure that with all the training that I'd gone through, I'd be able to react properly.

Most teachers aren't going to go and do tactical training on a gun range once a month, so them being able to know how to react and what to do is kinda questionable, because they've never done it before.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Firefights and fighting fires are by no means the same. Training and experience are a great help
but noone knows for sure what they will or won't do in a given situation because no two situations are exactly the same and neither are we.

 

[beagle9]

The media has so far accomplished its goal in frightening the public in thinking that a teacher with a gun in a classroom is the safest bet, yet do not consider the following:

Temporary insanity.

Anyone presently sane can pass a psychological evaluation (MMPI) especially if they're consistent in their responses, but what about afterwards? What about people who have marital issues, or family crisis or even better yet, what about their homes being forclosed along with going through all three? What if a teacher snaps and decides to kill him/herself along with the kids in the classroom, then what?

Or what about accidental discharges in the classroom? What if the teacher accidentally discharges their weapon in the classroom and in some freakish way someone other than the teacher gets hit?

Then what ? Well you answered the most important question with the beginning of your post, where as the good civilian being armed is the only immediate help to intervene and save lives until the cops or whomever else finally gets there.... It's simple man, just think about it with some common sense PLEASE!

I am thinking common sense......Just like the 11 year old who brought a gun to school because he wanted to protect himself from a future school attacker

Utah boy brings gun to school, cites Newtown fears - Yahoo! News

Or like this guy

Man armed with gun, knives entered Ohio theater showing Batman movie, police say - U.S. News

Ok so these are unusual circumstances or acts that are a result of the mayhem that was perpetrated on that aweful day in conneticutt or in the other incidents, so do we punish all the good people/citizens in this nation for these additional irrational acts, that are going to happen as a result of such chaos ? No we don't, because they are very few and far between, but we are to punish the whole nation because of these things now ?

Again no we don't, only that it's just that people like you whom have a bigger agenda installed for the good people of this nation down the road, and for whom thinks in these ways, hopes that soon the good people will be forced to abide by your rules or ideals, and so it's don't let a good crisis go to waste for people like you eh ?

 

[beagle9]

They may not know how they feel about it, but I can guarantee you that with all the training they go through, it becomes a reflex response. In my first real fire at sea, I didn't know how I'd react, but because of all the drilling and training I'd done, I didn't really think about much other than what my training taught me until after the fire was out.

Wait, what kind of "firefight" were you talking about?

I was telling you of a situation that I'd actually gone through that was dangerous and would have most people running in the opposite direction, but, because of my repeated training, I didn't think about it much until after the situation was over. I then told you about the weapons training I'd gone through in Security Forces, and even though I'd never actually had to draw my weapon on someone for real, I'm pretty sure that with all the training that I'd gone through, I'd be able to react properly.

Most teachers aren't going to go and do tactical training on a gun range once a month, so them being able to know how to react and what to do is kinda questionable, because they've never done it before.

Questionable until proper training is completed at the levels called for, well of course, but not impossible at all for them to suceed on any given day afterwards...

 

[Aristotle]

Then what ? Well you answered the most important question with the beginning of your post, where as the good civilian being armed is the only immediate help to intervene and save lives until the cops or whomever else finally gets there.... It's simple man, just think about it with some common sense PLEASE!

I am thinking common sense......Just like the 11 year old who brought a gun to school because he wanted to protect himself from a future school attacker

Utah boy brings gun to school, cites Newtown fears - Yahoo! News

Or like this guy

Man armed with gun, knives entered Ohio theater showing Batman movie, police say - U.S. News

Ok so these are unusual circumstances or acts that are a result of the mayhem that was perpetrated on that aweful day in conneticutt or in the other incidents, so do we punish all the good people/citizens in this nation for these additional irrational acts, that are going to happen as a result of such chaos ? No we don't, because they are very few and far between, but we are to punish the whole nation because of these things now ?

Again no we don't, only that it's just that people like you whom have a bigger agenda installed for the good people of this nation down the road, and for whom thinks in these ways, hopes that soon the good people will be forced to abide by your rules or ideals, and so it's don't let a good crisis go to waste for people like you eh ?

I'm talking about irrational fear of the unknown. It is irrational to start arming yourself at a movie theater all because of one isolated case, or bring a gun to school because you think something is going to happen.

 

[Aristotle]

Is someone suggesting we arm the union thug school teachers? Next it will be union longshoremen thugs then the union police thugs, where will it end? Besides I don't think my fifth grade teacher could even lift a gun, and even though she was a union thug she didn't like to hurt people.

something tells me you don't like unions lol

 

[regnum_defundie]

How about doing what Michael Moore suggested around 10 years ago and investigate the link between SSRI Antidepressants and violence? And why isn't Moore saying that now? Perhaps only Moore knows for sure...

Here''s the horses mouth(sorry):
youtube dot com/watch?v=DpinCRaAQOk

A US Government National Institutes of Health paper called:
Antidepressants and Violence-problems at the Interface of Medicine & Law
says the same thing:
ncbi DOT nlm DOT nih DOT gov/pmc/articles/PMC1564177/]Antidepressants and Violence: Problems at the Interface of Medicine and Law
(linked at video or just google it)

time to rethink feeding serious drugs to teenagers. now. today.

 

[koshergrl]

I am thinking common sense......Just like the 11 year old who brought a gun to school because he wanted to protect himself from a future school attacker

Utah boy brings gun to school, cites Newtown fears - Yahoo! News

Or like this guy

Man armed with gun, knives entered Ohio theater showing Batman movie, police say - U.S. News

Ok so these are unusual circumstances or acts that are a result of the mayhem that was perpetrated on that aweful day in conneticutt or in the other incidents, so do we punish all the good people/citizens in this nation for these additional irrational acts, that are going to happen as a result of such chaos ? No we don't, because they are very few and far between, but we are to punish the whole nation because of these things now ?

Again no we don't, only that it's just that people like you whom have a bigger agenda installed for the good people of this nation down the road, and for whom thinks in these ways, hopes that soon the good people will be forced to abide by your rules or ideals, and so it's don't let a good crisis go to waste for people like you eh ?

I'm talking about irrational fear of the unknown. It is irrational to start arming yourself at a movie theater all because of one isolated case, or bring a gun to school because you think something is going to happen.

You don't think your fear of guns is an irrational fear of the unknown?

I don't have an irrational fear of anything. People who are armed have no fear whatever, I promise you..including other people who are armed. When I have my 30-30 with me, I'm not concerned that some druggie with a 22 is going to kill me and my family when we're camping.

 

[JoeB131]

How about doing what Michael Moore suggested around 10 years ago and investigate the link between SSRI Antidepressants and violence? And why isn't Moore saying that now? Perhaps only Moore knows for sure...

Here''s the horses mouth(sorry):
youtube dot com/watch?v=DpinCRaAQOk

A US Government National Institutes of Health paper called:
Antidepressants and Violence-problems at the Interface of Medicine & Law
says the same thing:
ncbi DOT nlm DOT nih DOT gov/pmc/articles/PMC1564177/]Antidepressants and Violence: Problems at the Interface of Medicine and Law
(linked at video or just google it)

time to rethink feeding serious drugs to teenagers. now. today.

I agree. We are prescribing too many drugs to friviously to not just children but adults.