Anti-Semitism Explained

[Roudy]

"British intelligence knew "in late 1941 that Nazi Germany was systematically slaughtering Jews." On 17 December 1942, the House of Commons rose to its feet in tribute to the memory of Jews who had been murdered by the Nazis."
Project MUSE - The Nazi Extermination Camps and the Ally to the East: Could the Red Army and Air Force Have Stopped or Slowed the Final Solution?

Of course, knowing they exist, and being able to do anyting about it are admittedly different things.

Allies knew for a long time about the concentration death camps. Had they bombed them earlier, millions of lives would have been saved.

Americans even turned a ship filled with Jewish escapees back to to their deaths.

The MS St. Louis was a German ocean liner most notable for a single voyage in 1939, in which her captain, Gustav Schröder, tried to find homes for 937 German Jewish refugees after they were denied entry to Cuba, the United States and Canada, until finally accepted to various countries of Europe. Historians have estimated that, after their return to Europe, approximately a quarter of the ship's passengers died in concentration camps.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

First death camp was built in 1933. And anti-Jewish laws existed since well before that. Wasn't any big surprise to the Allies. The cynic in me thinks when American troops finally blundered into one on accident, American politicians were finally forced to acknowledge and condemn them. But as you point out, turning Jewish refuges away certainly doesn't win any popularity prizes here. I wont go so far as to say America wanted the Jews exterminated, but I don't think they were in any great rush to come to their aid.

Such policies of apathy and indifference continue to this day. Unless the crimes happen in an oil-rich country of course. But we haven't done diddly about Darfur. And only got into Syria because it's location's strategic.

 

[Coyote]

First death camp was built in 1933. And anti-Jewish laws existed since well before that. Wasn't any big surprise to the Allies. The cynic in me thinks when American troops finally blundered into one on accident, American politicians were finally forced to acknowledge and condemn them. But as you point out, turning Jewish refuges away certainly doesn't win any popularity prizes here. I wont go so far as to say America wanted the Jews exterminated, but I don't think they were in any great rush to come to their aid.

Anti-semitism was rife in our country during that time and I'm guessing that combined with an unwillingness to believe what was being reported (and national trend towards isolationism) all worked together. Turning away Jewish refugees, along with interning Americans of Japanese ancestry represent one of the most shameful periods in our modern history. My father told me a story of a reporter he once knew who was able to sneak into one of the camps and sneak out, and when he testified before Congress on what was going on - no one believed it was that bad.

There is so so so much documentation on the holocaust - first hand witness accounts, documents, photographs - it's hard to understand how something like Holocast denial manages to gain a footing. That's the thing with conspiracy theories

 

[Iceman]

Except my dad fought in World War II. My neighbor fought in World War II. My Foster Dad fought in World War II. My neighbors were Jews from Auschwitz and they showed me their serial numbers tattooed on their arms.

My Foster Dad told me not to believe Holocaust deniers. They saw it with their own eyes.

Americans saw no "concentration camps". There were no "concentration camps" that exterminated Jews in Germany. Even Simon Weisthenthal admits this.
Wiesenthal Re-Confirms: 'No Extermination Camps on German Soil'

Your dad, foster dad, and neighbor saw no death camps. Auschwitz was liberated by the Soviets, not the Americans.

You are using the fact that your living neighbors were in Auschwitz to prove it was an extermination camp?

Really? Do you pull these "facts" out of uranus, or do you enema them out?

On April 5, 1945, units from the American Fourth Armored Division of the Third Army were the first Americans to discover a camp with prisoners and corpses.

Ohrdruf was a Buchenwald sub-camp, and of the 10,000 male slave inmates, many had been sent on death marches, shot in pits, or their corpses were stacked in the woods and burned. The Americans found the camp by accident – they did not set out to liberate camps, they happened upon them – and found starved, frail bodies of hundreds of prisoners who had managed to survive, as well as the corpses. In Nordhausen, on the 11th, the American Timberwolf Division found 3,000 corpses and 700 starving, ill, and war-wounded survivors who were slaves in the V-2 rocket factories.

An Austrian-born Jewish U.S. soldier, Fred Bohm, helped liberate Nordhausen. He described fellow GI's as having "no particular feeling for fighting the Germans. They also thought that any stories they had read in the paper, or that I had told them out of first-hand experience, were either not true or at least exaggerated. And it did not sink in, what this was all about, until we got into Nordhausen."

When the American Combat Team 9 of the 9th Armored Infantry Battalion, Sixth Armored Division were led to Buchenwald by Russians, the camp contained 30,000 prisoners in a pyramid of power, with German Communists at the top, in the main barracks, and Jews and gypsies at the bottom, living in Little Camp, in an assortment of barns.

Buchenwald barrack prisoners were reasonably healthy looking. The Little Camp had 1,000 to 1,200 prisoners in a space meant for 450. Witnesses described prisoners as "emaciated beyond all imagination or description. Their legs and arms were sticks with huge bulging joints, and their loins were fouled by their own excrement. Their eyes were sunk so deep that they looked blind. If they moved at all, it was with a crawling slowness that made them look like huge, lethargic spiders. Many just lay in their bunks as if dead." After liberation, hundreds of prisoners died daily.

Generals George Patton, Omar Bradley, and Dwight Eisenhower arrived in Ohrdruf on April 12, the day of President Franklin D. Roosevelt's death. They found 3,200 naked, emaciated bodies in shallow graves. Eisenhower found a shed piled to the ceiling with bodies, various torture devices, and a butcher's block for smashing gold fillings from the mouths of the dead. Patton became physically ill. Eisenhower turned white at the scene inside the gates, but insisted on seeing the entire camp. "We are told that the American soldier does not know what he was fighting for," he said. "Now, at least he will know what he is fighting against."

After leaving Ohrdruf, Eisenhower wrote to Chief of Staff General George Marshall, attempting to describe things that "beggar description." The evidence of starvation and bestiality "were so overpowering as to leave me a bit sick," Bradley later wrote about the day: "The smell of death overwhelmed us." Patton, whose reputation for toughness was legendary, was overcome. He refused to enter a room where the bodies of naked men who had starved to death were piled, saying "he would get sick if he did so," Eisenhower reported. "I visited every nook and cranny." It was his duty, he felt, "to be in a position from then on to testify about these things in case there ever grew up at home the belief … that the stories of Nazi brutality were just propaganda." (Seemingly, he intuited then that these crimes might be denied.)

Eisenhower issued an order that American units in the area were to visit the camp. He also issued a call to the press back home. A group of prominent journalists, led by the dean of American publishers, Joseph Pulitzer, came to see the concentration camps. Pulitzer initially had "a suspicious frame of mind," he wrote. He expected to find that many of "the terrible reports" printed in the United States were "exaggerations and largely propaganda." But they were understatements, he reported.

Within days, Congressional delegations came to visit the concentration camps, accompanied by journalists and photographers. General Patton was so angry at what he found at Buchenwald that he ordered the Military Police to go to Weimar, four miles away, and bring back 1,000 civilians to see what their leaders had done, to witness what some human beings could do to others. The MP's were so outraged they brought back 2,000. Some turned away. Some fainted. Even veteran, battle-scarred correspondents were struck dumb. In a legendary broadcast on April 15, Edward R. Murrow gave the American radio audience a stunning matter-of-fact description of Buchenwald, of the piles of dead bodies so emaciated that those shot through the head had barely bled, and of those children who still lived, tattooed with numbers, whose ribs showed through their thin shirts. "I pray you to believe what I have said about Buchenwald," Murrow asked listeners. "I have reported what I saw and heard, but only part of it; for most of it I have no words." He added, "If I have offended you by this rather mild account of Buchenwald, I am not in the least sorry."

It was these reports, the newsreel pictures that were shot and played in theaters, and the visits of important delegations that proved to be influential in the public consciousness of the still unnamed German atrocities and the perception that something awful had been done to the Jews.

Buchenwald wasn't an extermination camp for Jews, there were no gas chambers there even.
Buchenwald -- Legend and reality

As your famous Nazi Hunter Weisenthal said, there were no death camps in Germany. Stop trolling

 

[mskafka]

Beyond obnoxious! You are all delusional, if you think that we don't see your agenda; and how little most of you contribute to a discussion. It must be a network of adolescents.

 

[Roudy]

Americans saw no "concentration camps". There were no "concentration camps" that exterminated Jews in Germany. Even Simon Weisthenthal admits this.
Wiesenthal Re-Confirms: 'No Extermination Camps on German Soil'

Your dad, foster dad, and neighbor saw no death camps. Auschwitz was liberated by the Soviets, not the Americans.

You are using the fact that your living neighbors were in Auschwitz to prove it was an extermination camp?

Really? Do you pull these "facts" out of uranus, or do you enema them out?

On April 5, 1945, units from the American Fourth Armored Division of the Third Army were the first Americans to discover a camp with prisoners and corpses.

Ohrdruf was a Buchenwald sub-camp, and of the 10,000 male slave inmates, many had been sent on death marches, shot in pits, or their corpses were stacked in the woods and burned. The Americans found the camp by accident – they did not set out to liberate camps, they happened upon them – and found starved, frail bodies of hundreds of prisoners who had managed to survive, as well as the corpses. In Nordhausen, on the 11th, the American Timberwolf Division found 3,000 corpses and 700 starving, ill, and war-wounded survivors who were slaves in the V-2 rocket factories.

An Austrian-born Jewish U.S. soldier, Fred Bohm, helped liberate Nordhausen. He described fellow GI's as having "no particular feeling for fighting the Germans. They also thought that any stories they had read in the paper, or that I had told them out of first-hand experience, were either not true or at least exaggerated. And it did not sink in, what this was all about, until we got into Nordhausen."

When the American Combat Team 9 of the 9th Armored Infantry Battalion, Sixth Armored Division were led to Buchenwald by Russians, the camp contained 30,000 prisoners in a pyramid of power, with German Communists at the top, in the main barracks, and Jews and gypsies at the bottom, living in Little Camp, in an assortment of barns.

Buchenwald barrack prisoners were reasonably healthy looking. The Little Camp had 1,000 to 1,200 prisoners in a space meant for 450. Witnesses described prisoners as "emaciated beyond all imagination or description. Their legs and arms were sticks with huge bulging joints, and their loins were fouled by their own excrement. Their eyes were sunk so deep that they looked blind. If they moved at all, it was with a crawling slowness that made them look like huge, lethargic spiders. Many just lay in their bunks as if dead." After liberation, hundreds of prisoners died daily.

Generals George Patton, Omar Bradley, and Dwight Eisenhower arrived in Ohrdruf on April 12, the day of President Franklin D. Roosevelt's death. They found 3,200 naked, emaciated bodies in shallow graves. Eisenhower found a shed piled to the ceiling with bodies, various torture devices, and a butcher's block for smashing gold fillings from the mouths of the dead. Patton became physically ill. Eisenhower turned white at the scene inside the gates, but insisted on seeing the entire camp. "We are told that the American soldier does not know what he was fighting for," he said. "Now, at least he will know what he is fighting against."

After leaving Ohrdruf, Eisenhower wrote to Chief of Staff General George Marshall, attempting to describe things that "beggar description." The evidence of starvation and bestiality "were so overpowering as to leave me a bit sick," Bradley later wrote about the day: "The smell of death overwhelmed us." Patton, whose reputation for toughness was legendary, was overcome. He refused to enter a room where the bodies of naked men who had starved to death were piled, saying "he would get sick if he did so," Eisenhower reported. "I visited every nook and cranny." It was his duty, he felt, "to be in a position from then on to testify about these things in case there ever grew up at home the belief … that the stories of Nazi brutality were just propaganda." (Seemingly, he intuited then that these crimes might be denied.)

Eisenhower issued an order that American units in the area were to visit the camp. He also issued a call to the press back home. A group of prominent journalists, led by the dean of American publishers, Joseph Pulitzer, came to see the concentration camps. Pulitzer initially had "a suspicious frame of mind," he wrote. He expected to find that many of "the terrible reports" printed in the United States were "exaggerations and largely propaganda." But they were understatements, he reported.

Within days, Congressional delegations came to visit the concentration camps, accompanied by journalists and photographers. General Patton was so angry at what he found at Buchenwald that he ordered the Military Police to go to Weimar, four miles away, and bring back 1,000 civilians to see what their leaders had done, to witness what some human beings could do to others. The MP's were so outraged they brought back 2,000. Some turned away. Some fainted. Even veteran, battle-scarred correspondents were struck dumb. In a legendary broadcast on April 15, Edward R. Murrow gave the American radio audience a stunning matter-of-fact description of Buchenwald, of the piles of dead bodies so emaciated that those shot through the head had barely bled, and of those children who still lived, tattooed with numbers, whose ribs showed through their thin shirts. "I pray you to believe what I have said about Buchenwald," Murrow asked listeners. "I have reported what I saw and heard, but only part of it; for most of it I have no words." He added, "If I have offended you by this rather mild account of Buchenwald, I am not in the least sorry."

It was these reports, the newsreel pictures that were shot and played in theaters, and the visits of important delegations that proved to be influential in the public consciousness of the still unnamed German atrocities and the perception that something awful had been done to the Jews.

Buchenwald wasn't an extermination camp for Jews, there were no gas chambers there even.
Buchenwald -- Legend and reality

As your famous Nazi Hunter Weisenthal said, there were no death camps in Germany. Stop trolling

So? We're not talking about gas chambers, idiot. Buchenwald exterminated Jews in a different way, by shooting and hanging them. The gas chambers were indeed used in other camps. You said the concentration camps were not liberated by Americans. Having problems defending your own claim now? Like all your claims it is based on ignorance, stupidity and bigotry.

 

[Iceman]

Really? Do you pull these "facts" out of uranus, or do you enema them out?

On April 5, 1945, units from the American Fourth Armored Division of the Third Army were the first Americans to discover a camp with prisoners and corpses.

Ohrdruf was a Buchenwald sub-camp, and of the 10,000 male slave inmates, many had been sent on death marches, shot in pits, or their corpses were stacked in the woods and burned. The Americans found the camp by accident – they did not set out to liberate camps, they happened upon them – and found starved, frail bodies of hundreds of prisoners who had managed to survive, as well as the corpses. In Nordhausen, on the 11th, the American Timberwolf Division found 3,000 corpses and 700 starving, ill, and war-wounded survivors who were slaves in the V-2 rocket factories.

An Austrian-born Jewish U.S. soldier, Fred Bohm, helped liberate Nordhausen. He described fellow GI's as having "no particular feeling for fighting the Germans. They also thought that any stories they had read in the paper, or that I had told them out of first-hand experience, were either not true or at least exaggerated. And it did not sink in, what this was all about, until we got into Nordhausen."

When the American Combat Team 9 of the 9th Armored Infantry Battalion, Sixth Armored Division were led to Buchenwald by Russians, the camp contained 30,000 prisoners in a pyramid of power, with German Communists at the top, in the main barracks, and Jews and gypsies at the bottom, living in Little Camp, in an assortment of barns.

Buchenwald barrack prisoners were reasonably healthy looking. The Little Camp had 1,000 to 1,200 prisoners in a space meant for 450. Witnesses described prisoners as "emaciated beyond all imagination or description. Their legs and arms were sticks with huge bulging joints, and their loins were fouled by their own excrement. Their eyes were sunk so deep that they looked blind. If they moved at all, it was with a crawling slowness that made them look like huge, lethargic spiders. Many just lay in their bunks as if dead." After liberation, hundreds of prisoners died daily.

Generals George Patton, Omar Bradley, and Dwight Eisenhower arrived in Ohrdruf on April 12, the day of President Franklin D. Roosevelt's death. They found 3,200 naked, emaciated bodies in shallow graves. Eisenhower found a shed piled to the ceiling with bodies, various torture devices, and a butcher's block for smashing gold fillings from the mouths of the dead. Patton became physically ill. Eisenhower turned white at the scene inside the gates, but insisted on seeing the entire camp. "We are told that the American soldier does not know what he was fighting for," he said. "Now, at least he will know what he is fighting against."

After leaving Ohrdruf, Eisenhower wrote to Chief of Staff General George Marshall, attempting to describe things that "beggar description." The evidence of starvation and bestiality "were so overpowering as to leave me a bit sick," Bradley later wrote about the day: "The smell of death overwhelmed us." Patton, whose reputation for toughness was legendary, was overcome. He refused to enter a room where the bodies of naked men who had starved to death were piled, saying "he would get sick if he did so," Eisenhower reported. "I visited every nook and cranny." It was his duty, he felt, "to be in a position from then on to testify about these things in case there ever grew up at home the belief … that the stories of Nazi brutality were just propaganda." (Seemingly, he intuited then that these crimes might be denied.)

Eisenhower issued an order that American units in the area were to visit the camp. He also issued a call to the press back home. A group of prominent journalists, led by the dean of American publishers, Joseph Pulitzer, came to see the concentration camps. Pulitzer initially had "a suspicious frame of mind," he wrote. He expected to find that many of "the terrible reports" printed in the United States were "exaggerations and largely propaganda." But they were understatements, he reported.

Within days, Congressional delegations came to visit the concentration camps, accompanied by journalists and photographers. General Patton was so angry at what he found at Buchenwald that he ordered the Military Police to go to Weimar, four miles away, and bring back 1,000 civilians to see what their leaders had done, to witness what some human beings could do to others. The MP's were so outraged they brought back 2,000. Some turned away. Some fainted. Even veteran, battle-scarred correspondents were struck dumb. In a legendary broadcast on April 15, Edward R. Murrow gave the American radio audience a stunning matter-of-fact description of Buchenwald, of the piles of dead bodies so emaciated that those shot through the head had barely bled, and of those children who still lived, tattooed with numbers, whose ribs showed through their thin shirts. "I pray you to believe what I have said about Buchenwald," Murrow asked listeners. "I have reported what I saw and heard, but only part of it; for most of it I have no words." He added, "If I have offended you by this rather mild account of Buchenwald, I am not in the least sorry."

It was these reports, the newsreel pictures that were shot and played in theaters, and the visits of important delegations that proved to be influential in the public consciousness of the still unnamed German atrocities and the perception that something awful had been done to the Jews.

Buchenwald wasn't an extermination camp for Jews, there were no gas chambers there even.
Buchenwald -- Legend and reality

As your famous Nazi Hunter Weisenthal said, there were no death camps in Germany. Stop trolling

So? We're not talking about gas chambers, idiot. Buchenwald exterminated Jews in a different way, by shooting and hanging them. The gas chambers were indeed used in other camps. You said the concentration camps were not liberated by Americans. Having problems defending your own claim now? Like all your claims it is based on ignorance, stupidity and bigotry.

There was no plan of extermination of Jews at any camps in Germany. The Concentration Camps in Germany were not Death Camps. That is just a point of fact.

Don't call me ignorant, stupid, or a bigot, I am just quoting Simon Weisthenal, the premier Nazi Hunter of the 20th Century. Take up your problems with him. He said there were no death camps in Germany. Americans liberated no death camps.

Save your bullshit Jew propaganda sob stories for someone else, which most people around the world don't care about because they know your lies.

 

[Roudy]

Buchenwald wasn't an extermination camp for Jews, there were no gas chambers there even.
Buchenwald -- Legend and reality

As your famous Nazi Hunter Weisenthal said, there were no death camps in Germany. Stop trolling

So? We're not talking about gas chambers, idiot. Buchenwald exterminated Jews in a different way, by shooting and hanging them. The gas chambers were indeed used in other camps. You said the concentration camps were not liberated by Americans. Having problems defending your own claim now? Like all your claims it is based on ignorance, stupidity and bigotry.

There was no plan of extermination of Jews at any camps in Germany. The Concentration Camps in Germany were not Death Camps. That is just a point of fact.

Don't call me ignorant, stupid, or a bigot, I am just quoting Simon Weisthenal, the premier Nazi Hunter of the 20th Century. Take up your problems with him. He said there were no death camps in Germany. Americans liberated no death camps.

Save you bullshit Jew propaganda sob stories for someone else, which most people around the world don't care about because they know your lies.

Ha ha ha. Are you including a Nazi asshole like yourself with "most people in the world".

Actually most people in the world agree that there was a Holocaust and that roughly six million Jews were killed as result. It is considered an indisputable historical fact. Your whining about it isn't going to change it one little bit.

 

[Iceman]

So? We're not talking about gas chambers, idiot. Buchenwald exterminated Jews in a different way, by shooting and hanging them. The gas chambers were indeed used in other camps. You said the concentration camps were not liberated by Americans. Having problems defending your own claim now? Like all your claims it is based on ignorance, stupidity and bigotry.

There was no plan of extermination of Jews at any camps in Germany. The Concentration Camps in Germany were not Death Camps. That is just a point of fact.

Don't call me ignorant, stupid, or a bigot, I am just quoting Simon Weisthenal, the premier Nazi Hunter of the 20th Century. Take up your problems with him. He said there were no death camps in Germany. Americans liberated no death camps.

Save you bullshit Jew propaganda sob stories for someone else, which most people around the world don't care about because they know your lies.

Ha ha ha. Are you including a Nazi asshole like yourself with "most people in the world".

Actually most people in the world agree that there was a Holocaust and that roughly six million Jews were killed as result. It is considered an indisputable historical fact. Your whining about it isn't going to change it one little bit.

LOL, 6 million! 6 million!

Was that before or after they revised the number down from 4 million to 1.5 Million dead at Auschwitz?

Oi vey! 3.5 million! 3.5 million! Doesn't have the same ring huh?

 

[Roudy]

There was no plan of extermination of Jews at any camps in Germany. The Concentration Camps in Germany were not Death Camps. That is just a point of fact.

Don't call me ignorant, stupid, or a bigot, I am just quoting Simon Weisthenal, the premier Nazi Hunter of the 20th Century. Take up your problems with him. He said there were no death camps in Germany. Americans liberated no death camps.

Save you bullshit Jew propaganda sob stories for someone else, which most people around the world don't care about because they know your lies.

Ha ha ha. Are you including a Nazi asshole like yourself with "most people in the world".

Actually most people in the world agree that there was a Holocaust and that roughly six million Jews were killed as result. It is considered an indisputable historical fact. Your whining about it isn't going to change it one little bit.

LOL, 6 million! 6 million!

Was that before or after they revised the number down from 4 million to 1.5 Million dead at Auschwitz?

Oi vey! 3.5 million! 3.5 million! Doesn't have the same ring huh?

The Germans were meticulous at keeping records. That's one of the reasons for their success. So what you're saying is you Holocaust denying nincompoops know better than the overwhelming evidence provided, as well as the German Govt. itself?

 

[Iceman]

Ha ha ha. Are you including a Nazi asshole like yourself with "most people in the world".

Actually most people in the world agree that there was a Holocaust and that roughly six million Jews were killed as result. It is considered an indisputable historical fact. Your whining about it isn't going to change it one little bit.

LOL, 6 million! 6 million!

Was that before or after they revised the number down from 4 million to 1.5 Million dead at Auschwitz?

Oi vey! 3.5 million! 3.5 million! Doesn't have the same ring huh?

The Germans were meticulous at keeping records. That's one of the reasons for their success. So what you're saying is you Holocaust denying nincompoops know better than the overwhelming evidence provided, as well as the German Govt. itself?

I know Germans are good at keeping records, apparently Jews aren't! lol. Look at the discrepancy in numbers at your holy site of Auschwitz. Or maybe good records isn't the point for the Jews, it is the narrative they sell...

 

[Roudy]

LOL, 6 million! 6 million!

Was that before or after they revised the number down from 4 million to 1.5 Million dead at Auschwitz?

Oi vey! 3.5 million! 3.5 million! Doesn't have the same ring huh?

The Germans were meticulous at keeping records. That's one of the reasons for their success. So what you're saying is you Holocaust denying nincompoops know better than the overwhelming evidence provided, as well as the German Govt. itself?

I know Germans are good at keeping records, apparently Jews aren't! lol. Look at the discrepancy in numbers at your holy site of Auschwitz. Or maybe good records isn't the point for the Jews, it is the narrative they sell...

The narrative doesn't come down to a mentally ill Nazi asshole's interpretation of what a sign says or doesn't say.

 

[Iceman]

The plaques at Auschwitz! A neo-nazi conspiracy! LOL. So the people that run Auschwitz are lying when they lowered the numbers down drastically? Your arguments are getting lamer and lamer...

 

[dreolin]

Haven't been on-site for very long, but even I know sunny's a Holocaust denier. As such, this is the only time I'll acknowledge he even exists. As such, people like him aren't worth responding to in threads. I get it's tempting, and given the right mood it can be cathartic, but every time we acknowledge them, it only gives them an erection.

I don't think Sunni Man's opinion about the Holocaust has anything to do with the issues you present. if you choose to ignore him, do so. I, myself, do not write people of so easily, nor am I willing to link criticism or objection to Israeli politicas and practices with anti-Semitism.

 

[dreolin]

One advantage of a 14 year-old computer is a 14 year-old Texts Directory with all my scribblings from over the years. Consequently this post. And while I don't expect slobbering anti-semites to read it and think "Oh wow, how wrong I've been!" I figure some will benefit from it.

It occurs that rather than argue with every antisemitic poster in every thread I should just post some info from actual Jewish and Zionist sources revealing our positions. Not that I believe truth can combat hate, but it might prove helpful for some of the fence-sitters. First, let's explain a bit about the Jewish view of non-Jews since that comes up rather a lot:

• You don't have to be Jewish to find favor in G-d's eyes
• G-d gave only seven basic commandments to gentiles
• Yiddish words for gentiles are goy, shiksa and shkutz
• Judaism does not approve of interfaith marriage, but it is very common
• Jews do not proselytize, but it is possible to convert to Judaism

"Judaism maintains that the righteous of all nations have a place in the world to come. This has been the majority rule since the days of the Talmud. Judaism generally recognizes that Christians and Moslems worship the same G-d that we do and those who follow the tenets of their religions can be considered righteous in the eyes of G-d.

Contrary to popular belief, Judaism does not maintain that Jews are better than other people. Although we refer to ourselves as G-d's chosen people, we do not believe that G-d chose the Jews because of any inherent superiority. According to the Talmud (Avodah Zarah 2b), G-d offered the Torah to all the nations of the earth, and the Jews were the only ones who accepted it. The story goes on to say that the Jews were offered the Torah last, and accepted it only because G-d held a mountain over their heads! (In Ex. 19:17, the words generally translated as "at the foot of the mountain" literally mean "underneath the mountain"!) Another traditional story suggests that G-d chose the Jewish nation because they were the lowliest of nations, and their success would be attributed to G-d's might rather than their own ability. Clearly, these are not the ideas of a people who think they are better than other nations.

Because of our acceptance of Torah, Jews have a special status in the eyes of G-d, but we lose that special status when we abandon Torah. Furthermore, the blessings that we received from G-d by accepting the Torah come with a high price: Jews have a greater responsibility than non-Jews. While non-Jews are only obligated to obey the seven commandments given to Noah, Jews are responsible for fulfilling the 613 mitzvot in the Torah, thus G-d will punish Jews for doing things that would not be a sin for non-Jews."

Judaism 101: Jewish Attitudes Toward Non-Jews


"Zionism: The national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel. Has come to include the development of the State of Israel and the protection of the Jewish nation in Israel.

Zionism avocated, from inception, tangible as well as spiritual aims. Jews of all persuasions - left and right, religious and secular - joined to form the Zionist movement and worked together toward these goals. Disagreements led to rifts, but ultimately, the common goal of a Jewish state in its ancient homeland was attained.

The term “Zionism” was coined in 1890 by Nathan Birnbaum.
Types of Zionism:
General Zionism | Messianic Zionism | Revisionist Zionism | Christian Zionism | Socialist Zionism"

A Definition of Zionism | Jewish Virtual Library


"Anti-Semitism (also Antisemitism) is the prejudice, discrimination, and hatred of Jews as a national, ethnic, religious, or racial group.

"The Protocols of the Elders of Zion," a text debunked many years ago as a fraud perpetrated by Czarist intelligence agents, continued to appear in the Middle East media, not as a hoax, but as established fact. Government-sponsored television in Syria ran lengthy serials based on the Protocols. The presentations emphasized blood libel and the alleged control by the Jewish community of international finance. The clear purpose of the programs was to incite hatred of Jews and of Israel. Copies of the Protocols and other similar anti-Semitic forgeries were readily available in Middle Eastern countries, former Soviet republics and elsewhere. Similarly, allegations that Jews were behind the 9/11 attacks were widely disseminated."

Report on Global Anti-Semitism (2004)



During the Cold War, Soviets had a term for westeners working on behalf of Sovet interests: "useful idiot." That is, they mocked and disparaged Americans and others who were pro-communist for their efforts to spread communist dogma throughout democratic nations. I guess because the communists themselves knew the downside but were trapped within those political systems.

Today, the antisemites are repeating the same sort of "idiot" mentality working on behalf of pro-Islamic forces while insisting they don't like Islamicists any more than Jews. Judaism might not be your cup of tea (and surely a religion which tolerates other faiths, and doesn't insist you must become like us for G-d to love you is obviously the worst thing in the world) but we're not cutting people's heads off when they don't convert to Judaism or Christianity.

By perpetuating antisemitic ideology, you're only helping Islamic interests. If that's your goal fine, but if you're of the American conservative persuassion worrying about Sharia Law in the US, and similar "threats" then ask yourself why you would side with those very same Islamics against the Jews. "The enemy of my enemy may be my friend."

All religion is crap...nonsense....including yours.

Religion has a function and fills a need. Proselytizing people of faith and prosylitizing athiests are really no different.

 

[dreolin]

Now I see how some have 10's of thousands of posts. They're all one-liners.

What I don't see is why you are diverting from your own thread to indulge in insult.

 

[dreolin]

Today, the antisemites are repeating the same sort of "idiot" mentality working on behalf of pro-Islamic forces while insisting they don't like Islamicists any more than Jews. Judaism might not be your cup of tea (and surely a religion which tolerates other faiths, and doesn't insist you must become like us for G-d to love you is obviously the worst thing in the world) but we're not cutting people's heads off when they don't convert to Judaism or Christianity.

By perpetuating antisemitic ideology, you're only helping Islamic interests. If that's your goal fine, but if you're of the American conservative persuassion worrying about Sharia Law in the US, and similar "threats" then ask yourself why you would side with those very same Islamics against the Jews. "The enemy of my enemy may be my friend."

Anti-Semitism is no different than the anti-Islam that you curry.

 

[dreolin]

I guess I get bad rep for posting the truth from you yet you can't hold a conversation with me.

Although the relationship between muslims and jews had it's rough times in certain areas of muslim lands.

All in all, Jew's were still way more secure in lands ruled by muslims than those ruled by christians.

1) During the Crusades the crusaders murdered every jew they encountered.

Islamic rule. But after the muslims were defeated in Spain by the Christians all Jews were expelled from the country under threat of death in 1492.

In Vietnam, I wasn't fighting Buddhists.

In feudal times, there were plenty of wars between Catholic countries.

Wars are cconducted for resources, riches and power. Religion is only the window dressing to arouse the masses.

Imagine the feudal powers that be trying to convince peasants to sacrifice their lives so that he migght have aa bigger castle. God and the fear of hellfire work better.

 

[dreolin]

Haven't been on-site for very long, but even I know sunny's a Holocaust denier.

I am not so much of a denier; but more of a revisionist.

In essence, I do not believe the "Official' holocaust story. And think the holocaust should be debated and discussed the same as any other historical event.

Also, what I find disturbing is that in several countries a person can end up in prison for even questioning the holocaust.

Why? What are they trying to hide?? .....

Any and all historical events should always be open to scrutiny and, if need be, revision.

People shouldn't distort history for political reasons

Recent examination of archives by reputable historiaans have shown that the Inquisition, as bad as it was, was not nearly as horrible as it has been portrayed.

It seems "the Holocaust" has become a sacred cow, protected by laws that prohibit free speech and free thought and, very sadly, those who objecct such prohibitions of speech and thoughtare accused are themselve accused of being "Holocaust deniers" without regard as to what they actually think on the matter.

 

[dreolin]

Haven't been on-site for very long, but even I know sunny's a Holocaust denier.

I am not so much of a denier; but more of a revisionist.

In essence, I do not believe the "Official' holocaust story. And think the holocaust should be debated and discussed the same as any other historical event.

Also, what I find disturbing is that in several countries a person can end up in prison for even questioning the holocaust.

Why? What are they trying to hide?? .....

Except my dad fought in World War II. My neighbor fought in World War II. My Foster Dad fought in World War II. My neighbors were Jews from Auschwitz and they showed me their serial numbers tattooed on their arms.

My Foster Dad told me not to believe Holocaust deniers. They saw it with their own eyes.

My father and uncles were WWII vets. My brother and I are vets, and I have a son and godson currently in the military. We served and fought somewhere amidst these arguments and deep within our hearts to defend our Constitutional rights and the Constitution.

The first amendment allows for freedom of thought and religion and speech period. They did not fight for a reedom of speech only if it was correct.

The Holocaust happened but to deny people the right to question it goes against some very cherished beliefs and principles.