Arctic ice thins dramatically

[Old Rocks]

No, the MWP has not been found round the world. Real scientist from the 2010 AGU conferance;

A42D

 

[mal]

PASADENA, Calif. – Arctic sea ice thinned dramatically between the winters of 2004 and 2008, with thin seasonal ice replacing thick older ice as the dominant type for the first time on record.

The new results, based on data from a NASA Earth-orbiting spacecraft, provide further evidence for the rapid, ongoing transformation of the Arctic’s ice cover.

Scientists from NASA and the University of Washington in Seattle conducted the most comprehensive survey to date using observations from NASA’s Ice, Cloud and land Elevation Satellite, known as ICESat, to make the first basin-wide estimate of the thickness and volume of the Arctic Ocean’s ice cover.

Ron Kwok of NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., led the research team, which published its findings July 7 in the Journal of Geophysical Research-Oceans.

The Arctic ice cap grows each winter as the sun sets for several months and intense cold ensues. In the summer, wind and ocean currents cause some of the ice naturally to flow out of the Arctic, while much of it melts in place. But not all of the Arctic ice melts each summer; the thicker, older ice is more likely to survive. Seasonal sea ice usually reaches about 2 meters (6 feet) in thickness, while multi-year ice averages 3 meters (9 feet).

Using ICESat measurements, scientists found that overall Arctic sea ice thinned about 0.17 meters (7 inches) a year, for a total of 0.68 meters (2.2 feet) over four winters. The total area covered by the thicker, older “multi-year” ice that has survived one or more summers shrank by 42 percent.

Arctic ice thinned dramatically between 2004 and 2008 | VANCOUVERITE

peace...

 

[westwall]

No, the MWP has not been found round the world. Real scientist from the 2010 AGU conferance;

A42D

MWP in China, BTW all of these are peer reviewed articles, actually the last one is not but he uses peer reviewed source material.. I know you won't read them but others will.

CO2 Science

CO2 Science

The Sierra Nevada Mountains,

CO2 Science

The characteristics and likely causes of the Medieval megadroughts in North America

West Antarctica,

The Medieval Warm Period hit west Antarctica « JoNova

A global overview from a German article translated into English at Watts Up With That

The Medieval Warm Period – a global phenomenon, unprecedented warming, or unprecedented data manipulation? | Watts Up With That?

How about the Yucatan?

Global Warming & Terra Forming Terra: The Mayan Terminal Period

These are a FEW of the references for the MWP worldwide, in other words you alarmists are wrong yet again...or maybe there was suddenly a breakout of localised warming events that affected the globe all at the same time but were only localised like the alarmists say?

Riiight.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Hmmm...... yourself, silly ass. You will soon find out the differance, much to your chagrin.

No really I just dont care.
Ice melt it thaws, shit warms up and it cools down.

 

[mal]

Hmmm...... yourself, silly ass. You will soon find out the differance, much to your chagrin.

No really I just dont care.
Ice melt it thaws, shit warms up and it cools down.

And we ain't gonna change an ounce of it by Crippling our Economy Further to Please the Irrational Earth Loving, Human Hating, Commie Sympathizing Douchers on the Left.



peace...

 

[Old Rocks]

Interesting graph included in the abstract.

ScienceDirect - Global and Planetary Change : Land surface temperature changes in Northern Iberia since 4000 yr BP, based on δ13C of speleothems

Land surface temperature changes in Northern Iberia since 4000 yr BP, based on δ13C of speleothems


Javier Martín-Chiveleta, b, , , M. Belén Muñoz-Garcíaa, b, , R. Lawrence Edwardsc, , María J. Turrerod, and Ana I. Ortegae,

a Dpt. Estratigrafía, Facultad de Ciencias Geológicas, Universidad Complutense de Madrid, 28040 Madrid, Spain

b Instituto de Geociencias (CSIC-UCM), Facultad de Ciencias Geológicas, c/ José Antonio Nováis 2, 28040 Madrid, Spain

c University of Minnesota, Department of Geology and Geophysics, 310 Pillsbury Drive SE, Minneapolis, MN 55455, USA

d Ciemat, Dpt. Medioambiente, Avda. Complutense 22, 28040 Madrid, Spain

e Centro Nacional de Investigación sobre la Evolución Humana CENIEH. Paseo Sierra de Atapuerca s/n, 09002 Burgos, Spain

Received 9 June 2010; accepted 14 February 2011. Available online 22 February 2011.

Abstract
The surface temperature changes for the last 4000 years in northern inland Iberia (an area particularly sensitive to climate change) are determined by a high resolution study of carbon stable isotope records of stalagmites from three caves (Kaite, Cueva del Cobre, and Cueva Mayor) separated several 10 s km away in N Spain. Despite the local conditions of each cave, the isotopic series show a good overall coherence, and resulted to be strongly sensitive to surface temperature changes.

The record reflects alternating warmer and colder intervals, always within a temperature range of 1.6 °C. The timing and duration of the intervals were provided by 43 230Th–234U (ICP-MS) ages. Main climatic recognized periods are: (1) 3950–3000 yr BP: warm period punctuated by cool events around ~ 3950, 3550 and 3250 yr BP; (2) 2850–2500 yr BP cold interval (Iron Age Cold Period); (3) 2500–1650 yr BP moderate warm period (Roman Warm Period), with maximum temperatures between 2150 and 1750 yr BP; (4) 1650–1350 yr BP cold interval (Dark Ages Cold Period), with a thermal minimum at ~ 1500 yr BP; (5) 1350–750 yr BP warm period (Medieval Warm Period) punctuated by two cooler events at ~ 1250 and ~ 850 yr BP; (6) 750–100 yr BP cold period (Little Ice Age) with extremes occurring at 600–500 yr BP, 350–300 yr BP, and 150–100 yr BP; and (7) the last 150 years, characterized by rapid but no linear warming (Modern Warming). Remarkably, the presented records allow direct comparison of recent warming with former warm intervals such as the Roman or the Medieval periods. That comparison reveals the 20th Century as the time with highest surface temperatures of the last 4000 years for the studied area.Spectral analysis of the time series shows consistent climatic cycles of ~ 400, ~ 900 and ~ 1300 yr, comparable with those recognized in the North Atlantic marine record, the Greenland ice cores, and other terrestrial records for the middle – late Holocene, suggesting common climate forcing mechanisms related to changes in solar irradiance and North Atlantic circulation patterns

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Hmmm...... yourself, silly ass. You will soon find out the differance, much to your chagrin.

No really I just dont care.
Ice melt it thaws, shit warms up and it cools down.

And we ain't gonna change an ounce of it by Crippling our Economy Further to Please the Irrational Earth Loving, Human Hating, Commie Sympathizing Douchers on the Left.



peace...

True enough.
They are as gone as truthers.

 

[Trakar]

The average temperature of the MWP was 5 degrees warmer then today. It has been found wherever it has been looked for in the world...

Cite and reference the peer-reviewed studies that confirm these assertions

WAS THERE A 'MEDIEVAL WARM PERIOD', AND IF SO, WHERE AND WHEN? - http://www.geofaculty.org:16080/fig.../Hughes_Medieval_Warm_ClimaticChange_1994.pdf

...Taken together, the available evidence does not support a global Medieval Warm Period, although more support for such a phenomenon could be drawn from high-elevation records than from low-elevation records...

Historical climatology, Climatic Change, and implications for climate science in the twenty-first century - SpringerLink - Climatic Change, Volume 100, Number 1

Recent Glacier Retreat Exceeds Internal Variability - An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Many more available upon request.

 

[Trakar]

MWP in China, BTW all of these are peer reviewed articles, actually the last one is not but he uses peer reviewed source material.. I know you won't read them but others will.

CO2 Science

Interesting paper, if you read the actual paper instead of the (political rhetoric spin of the paper), but I see nothing in it that supports the contention that the MWP (AD 950–1250) was global in nature.
Flood/drought change of last millennium in the Yangtze Delta and its possible connections with Tibetan climatic changes - http://www.lehman.edu/academics/eggs/documents/GAPC-2007-Zhang-et-al.pdf
(plus it helps to understand when the MWP actually was instead of when the "CO2 Science" blog asserts it was in this instance. - NOAA Paleoclimatology Global Warming - The Data
And they are asserting that the Little Ice Age lasted all the way until the 1920s, isn't that when you were trying to reference an "ice-free" arctic earlier?)

The Sierra Nevada Mountains,

The characteristics and likely causes of the Medieval megadroughts in North America

At least it is in the right time frame, do the authors claim regional or global conditions?

West Antarctica,

The Medieval Warm Period hit west Antarctica « JoNova

This isn't a peer reviewed paper, nor is it produced by a climate scientist, it is merely mish-mash of pseudoscience produced by a political hack and published on a partisan political blog.

A global overview from a German article translated into English at Watts Up With That

The Medieval Warm Period – a global phenomenon, unprecedented warming, or unprecedented data manipulation? | Watts Up With That?

A pseudoscience german blog post translated and copied onto an American political pundit's blog site is supposed to be deemed credible or compelling why?

How about the Yucatan?

Global Warming & Terra Forming Terra: The Mayan Terminal Period

another political site blogpost, speaking about issues outside the author's expertise and absent any sort of climate peer review is hardly is hardly compelling.

The papers listed as support:

Isotope measurements of single ostracod valves and gastropod shells for climate reconstruction: Evaluation of within-sample variability and determination of optimum sample size - Isotope measurements of single ostracod valves and gastropod shells for climate reconstruction: evaluation of within-sample variability and determination of optimum sample size

Says absolutely nothing about temperature and only covers a 80-year period near the very beginning ot the European MWP.

Climate variability on the Yucatan Peninsula (Mexico) during the past 3,500 years, and implications for Maya cultural evolution. - Again, no discussion of temperature, just of various drought condition periods and the various natural and human causatives of such.

Climate and cultural history of the Northeastern Yucatan Peninsula, Quintana Roo, Mexico - Yadda yadda, drought, cultural influences, no mention of discussion of temperature factors at all.

Possible role of climate in the collapse of classic Maya civilization - Perhaps the most interesting of the lot, especially in their discussion about how the Mayan civ. activities mimiced and confused natural climate signals, but again, no mention of temperatures, just drought.

Drought does not automatically equal or indicate temperature increases, in fact, in most cases we expect drought from cooler conditions that reduce the atmosphere's capacity to hold and transport moisture. Most often, however, drought is simply an indication that there has been a sustained shifting of pervailing wind patterns which carries moisture laden air to different areas than it normally does.

These are a FEW of the references for the MWP worldwide, in other words you alarmists are wrong yet again...or maybe there was suddenly a breakout of localised warming events that affected the globe all at the same time but were only localised like the alarmists say?

Riiight.

Every legitimate paper presented compellingly indicating a significant temperature rise in the appropriate time period, was in the Northern Hemisphere. Which is consistent with the predominant professional climatology perspective of the MWP. In order for a climate event to be considered global, it needs to be happening globally, and it needs to be occurring during the same time range. There simply isn't compelling evidenciary support for either of these precepts in the mild, regional warming Climatology recognizes as the MWP.

 

[Trakar]

Hmmm...... yourself, silly ass. You will soon find out the differance, much to your chagrin.

No really I just dont care.
Ice melt it thaws, shit warms up and it cools down.

And we ain't gonna change an ounce of it by Crippling our Economy Further to Please the Irrational Earth Loving, Human Hating, Commie Sympathizing Douchers on the Left.



peace...

Done properly (which includes beginning soon enough to maximize effectiveness and minimize ithe long-term nvestment), adaptations and adjustments would actually boost and strengthen the economy rather than drag upon it. In fact, one of the goals of adaptation and adjustment would be to avoid the accumulating economic depressions that the changing environment continues to pile onto businesses and individuals.

 

[westwall]

The average temperature of the MWP was 5 degrees warmer then today. It has been found wherever it has been looked for in the world...

Cite and reference the peer-reviewed studies that confirm these assertions

WAS THERE A 'MEDIEVAL WARM PERIOD', AND IF SO, WHERE AND WHEN? - http://www.geofaculty.org:16080/fig.../Hughes_Medieval_Warm_ClimaticChange_1994.pdf

...Taken together, the available evidence does not support a global Medieval Warm Period, although more support for such a phenomenon could be drawn from high-elevation records than from low-elevation records...

Historical climatology, Climatic Change, and implications for climate science in the twenty-first century - SpringerLink - Climatic Change, Volume 100, Number 1

Recent Glacier Retreat Exceeds Internal Variability - An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Many more available upon request.

Really? Are they all 17 years old? You really need to get some more current information there dude. Amazingly enough there are CD's now and DVD's, imagine that!

 

[Old Rocks]

The lecture given at this years AGU Conferance by E. S. Mosley-Thompson stated the same thing, and was current science.

A42D

 

[westwall]

The lecture given at this years AGU Conferance by E. S. Mosley-Thompson stated the same thing, and was current science.

A42D

And ignored the peer reviewed papers (as well as many others) that I presented. Go figure. I believe the term is "cherry picking".

 

[Trakar]

Recent Glacier Retreat Exceeds Internal Variability - An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Many more available upon request.

Really? Are they all 17 years old? You really need to get some more current information there dude. Amazingly enough there are CD's now and DVD's, imagine that!

Evidently not.

I hear good things about Sylvan Learning Clenters with regards to learning basic reading comprehension, perhaps you should consider looking into it.

 

[westwall]

Recent Glacier Retreat Exceeds Internal Variability - An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Many more available upon request.

Really? Are they all 17 years old? You really need to get some more current information there dude. Amazingly enough there are CD's now and DVD's, imagine that!

Evidently not.

I hear good things about Sylvan Learning Clenters with regards to learning basic reading comprehension, perhaps you should consider looking into it.

Here's a more recent study from Woods Hole. It dates from 2009 so is still a little old but the basics are still good and far superior to that which you posted. But feel free to argue with one of the pre-eminent organisations on the planet. I am sure there is a windmill you can tilt at.

News Release : New Temperature Reconstruction from Indo-Pacific Warm Pool : Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution

 

[Old Rocks]

The lecture given at this years AGU Conferance by E. S. Mosley-Thompson stated the same thing, and was current science.

A42D

And ignored the peer reviewed papers (as well as many others) that I presented. Go figure. I believe the term is "cherry picking".

Really, you presented a lecture at the AGU conferance? And what number was it, so that I may review it.

 

[Old Rocks]

Really? Are they all 17 years old? You really need to get some more current information there dude. Amazingly enough there are CD's now and DVD's, imagine that!

Evidently not.

I hear good things about Sylvan Learning Clenters with regards to learning basic reading comprehension, perhaps you should consider looking into it.

Here's a more recent study from Woods Hole. It dates from 2009 so is still a little old but the basics are still good and far superior to that which you posted. But feel free to argue with one of the pre-eminent organisations on the planet. I am sure there is a windmill you can tilt at.

News Release : New Temperature Reconstruction from Indo-Pacific Warm Pool : Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution

News Release : New Temperature Reconstruction from Indo-Pacific Warm Pool : Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution

Temperature reconstructions suggest that the Northern Hemisphere may have been slightly cooler (by about 0.5 degrees Celsius) during the 'Medieval Warm Period' (~AD 800-1300) than during the late-20th century. However, these temperature reconstructions are based on, in large part, data compiled from high latitude or high altitude terrestrial proxy records, such as tree rings and ice cores, from the Northern Hemisphere (NH). Little pre-historical temperature data from tropical regions like the IPWP has been incorporated into these analyses, and the global extent of warm temperatures during this interval is unclear. As a result, conclusions regarding past global temperatures still have some uncertainties.

Why, thank you, Walleyes. So the MW was about 0.5 C cooler than the late 20th Century. Not 5 C warmer, but 0.5 C cooler.

So where did you get the ridiculous figure of 5 C warmer? Perhaps you were smoking some of North California's best?

And what was the graphic result of this study?

My, my, look at the lumpy hockey stick

Image : New Temperature Reconstruction from Indo-Pacific Warm Pool : Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution

 

[westwall]

Evidently not.

I hear good things about Sylvan Learning Clenters with regards to learning basic reading comprehension, perhaps you should consider looking into it.

Here's a more recent study from Woods Hole. It dates from 2009 so is still a little old but the basics are still good and far superior to that which you posted. But feel free to argue with one of the pre-eminent organisations on the planet. I am sure there is a windmill you can tilt at.

News Release : New Temperature Reconstruction from Indo-Pacific Warm Pool : Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution

News Release : New Temperature Reconstruction from Indo-Pacific Warm Pool : Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution

Temperature reconstructions suggest that the Northern Hemisphere may have been slightly cooler (by about 0.5 degrees Celsius) during the 'Medieval Warm Period' (~AD 800-1300) than during the late-20th century. However, these temperature reconstructions are based on, in large part, data compiled from high latitude or high altitude terrestrial proxy records, such as tree rings and ice cores, from the Northern Hemisphere (NH). Little pre-historical temperature data from tropical regions like the IPWP has been incorporated into these analyses, and the global extent of warm temperatures during this interval is unclear. As a result, conclusions regarding past global temperatures still have some uncertainties.

Why, thank you, Walleyes. So the MW was about 0.5 C cooler than the late 20th Century. Not 5 C warmer, but 0.5 C cooler.

So where did you get the ridiculous figure of 5 C warmer? Perhaps you were smoking some of North California's best?

And what was the graphic result of this study?

My, my, look at the lumpy hockey stick

Image : New Temperature Reconstruction from Indo-Pacific Warm Pool : Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution

In that area, what else did theysay? Hmmm? C'mon tough guy post the really relevent thing they said about the northern hemisphere.

 

[Old Rocks]

Temperature reconstructions suggest that the Northern Hemisphere may have been slightly cooler (by about 0.5 degrees Celsius) during the 'Medieval Warm Period' (~AD 800-1300) than during the late-20th century

 

[westwall]

Temperature reconstructions suggest that the Northern Hemisphere may have been slightly cooler (by about 0.5 degrees Celsius) during the 'Medieval Warm Period' (~AD 800-1300) than during the late-20th century

How about we add the little section you left off,

." However, these temperature reconstructions are based on, in large part, data compiled from high latitude or high altitude terrestrial proxy records, such as tree rings and ice cores, from the Northern Hemisphere (NH). Little pre-historical temperature data from tropical regions like the IPWP has been incorporated into these analyses, and the global extent of warm temperatures during this interval is unclear. As a result, conclusions regarding past global temperatures still have some uncertainties."

Kind of important now wouldn't you say? Makes the comment you posted a little less conclusive eh? What is that called? Oh yes, lying by omission.


And then of course there is this statement which is of course the most important as it negates your entire argument so I can see why you would excise it, once again lying by omission.

Oppo comments, “Although there are significant uncertainties with our own reconstruction, our work raises the idea that perhaps even the Northern Hemisphere temperature reconstructions need to be looked at more closely.”


I am surprised that someone as unethical as you are has a job.