Arctic sea ice melting toward record

[Foxfyre]

I'm beginning to think its an exercise in futility Gslack. I think you're most probably right. But I think the warmers will just keep posting those same tired, flawed, or selective sources again and again until we get tired of responding to them. And then they'll think they won. And then the thread will fade into oblivion. And sooner or later somebody will start a new thread on global warming.

Oh well. It's something to do.

 

[jeffrockit]

Hey dingleberry, how about linking some sites for your points? You do know how to do that, do you not? Otherwise, your yap-yap is just unsupported yap-yap.

It was linked in my first response but since it did not agree with the warming belief system, was discounted as a useless site. You again with the infantile name calling. When you grow up, perhaps a debate will be worth it, until then, keep showing yourself as a name caller rather than an adult with something worthwhile to say.

Warming is not a belief, it's a reality.

The earth is warming and the ice is melting.

As usual, you are wrong but completely blinded by your belief system and not science.

Not that you will read them because they don't fit your agenda, but one can try:

Climate myths: The lower atmosphere is cooling, not warming - environment - 16 May 2007 - New Scientist

From the Copenhagen summit
Copenhagen climate change summit: The world is COOLING not warming says scientist Peter Taylor ... and we're not prepared | Mail Online

Scientist opposing the warming belief
List of scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ice In The Greenhouse: Earth May Be Cooling, Not Warming

 

[gslack]

Hey dingleberry, how about linking some sites for your points? You do know how to do that, do you not? Otherwise, your yap-yap is just unsupported yap-yap.

It was linked in my first response but since it did not agree with the warming belief system, was discounted as a useless site. You again with the infantile name calling. When you grow up, perhaps a debate will be worth it, until then, keep showing yourself as a name caller rather than an adult with something worthwhile to say.

Warming is not a belief, it's a reality.

The earth is warming and the ice is melting.

BULLSHIT its not a belief..

A few hundred years ago, the most educated minds in Europe was certain the earth was flat... Ya know who in Europe at the time knew it was round? Sailors.... They knew it and it showed in their charts and navigation... But the church was in control of education back then and the church didn't want to have to accept they were wrong or the Bible didn't mention it so it had to be wrong...

So no scientists or educated people at the time would even consider it in public... in private however they knew better and even helped and traded knowledge with the navigators and map makers....

That sound familiar fool????

It's the age old fear tactic to control the masses you twit.. nothing new here... The game is the same only the players have changed.. now its not the church because they do not hold power like they did. Today its the governments who hold power so this time its used to get a CO2 tax on life....

Grow up dreamer you are the same ignorant people who thought Columbus was going to sail off the edge of the world way back when. They believed it because their presumed betters or the ones deemed holiest and wisest, told them so. And no amount of common sense, sound logic, and deductive reason based on everyday sensory input, and the words of the very men who actually had the most knowledge on it was enough to sway them..

you are the peasants back then all buying into bullshit. This time its not fear of gods wrath that motivates you, its the fear of natures wrath.... hello???? Getting any of this yet?

You fucking idiots crack me up.... You get told by your own sources how it is but you fail to read it. You take a headline or a claim made out of context or just simply made up, and yell "Eureka! I have it" like an idiot....

 

[gslack]

I'm beginning to think its an exercise in futility Gslack. I think you're most probably right. But I think the warmers will just keep posting those same tired, flawed, or selective sources again and again until we get tired of responding to them. And then they'll think they won. And then the thread will fade into oblivion. And sooner or later somebody will start a new thread on global warming.

Oh well. It's something to do.

LOL, I guess I like poking the crazies...

 

[ScienceRocks]

It was linked in my first response but since it did not agree with the warming belief system, was discounted as a useless site. You again with the infantile name calling. When you grow up, perhaps a debate will be worth it, until then, keep showing yourself as a name caller rather than an adult with something worthwhile to say.

Warming is not a belief, it's a reality.

The earth is warming and the ice is melting.

As usual, you are wrong but completely blinded by your belief system and not science.

Not that you will read them because they don't fit your agenda, but one can try:

Climate myths: The lower atmosphere is cooling, not warming - environment - 16 May 2007 - New Scientist

From the Copenhagen summit
Copenhagen climate change summit: The world is COOLING not warming says scientist Peter Taylor ... and we're not prepared | Mail Online

Scientist opposing the warming belief
List of scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ice In The Greenhouse: Earth May Be Cooling, Not Warming

This was caused by
1# A powerful solar minimum that hit bottom in 2007-2008. Look at 1996-1997 time frame for the effects the solar min had. Not just the volcano that happened in the early 1990s. Look at the Dalton grand minimum for more. ->Maunder minimum=little ice age.

2# La nina.

Yes the world was cooling off because of those factors, but the world has turned around and has warmed close to 1998 during the first 3-4 months(If you believe the temperature data) this year because of the strongest el nino in 12 years. El nino or enso is causing the up and downs. It is the main short term global temperature changer there is outside of a very big volcano. See Enso controls the temperature of much of the Pacific in some ways and controls weather patterns world wide. Some areas half way around the world can totally have different effects on the weather one year to the next because of it.

Like one area can have a nino and have a snowy weather out on the east coast and another can have a nina and have snowy weather out west.

 

[Old Rocks]

It was linked in my first response but since it did not agree with the warming belief system, was discounted as a useless site. You again with the infantile name calling. When you grow up, perhaps a debate will be worth it, until then, keep showing yourself as a name caller rather than an adult with something worthwhile to say.

Warming is not a belief, it's a reality.

The earth is warming and the ice is melting.

As usual, you are wrong but completely blinded by your belief system and not science.

Not that you will read them because they don't fit your agenda, but one can try:

Climate myths: The lower atmosphere is cooling, not warming - environment - 16 May 2007 - New Scientist

From the Copenhagen summit
Copenhagen climate change summit: The world is COOLING not warming says scientist Peter Taylor ... and we're not prepared | Mail Online

Scientist opposing the warming belief
List of scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ice In The Greenhouse: Earth May Be Cooling, Not Warming

Jeff, old boy, do you ever bother to read your links?

Climate myths: The lower atmosphere is cooling, not warming - environment - 16 May 2007 - New Scientist

The answer came in a series of studies published in 2005 (see Sceptics forced into climate climbdown).

One study in Science revealed errors in the way satellite data had been collected and interpreted. For instance, the orbit of satellites gradually slows, which has to be taken into account because it affects the time of day at which temperature recording are taken. This problem was always recognised, but the corrections were given the wrong sign (negative instead positive and vice versa).

A second study, also in Science, looked at the weather balloon data. Measurements of the air temperature during the day can be skewed if the instruments are heated by sunlight. Over the years the makers of weather balloons had come up with better methods of preventing or correcting for this effect, but because no one had taken these improvements into account, the more accurate measurements appeared to show daytime temperatures getting cooler.

The corrected temperature records show that tropospheric temperatures are indeed rising at roughly the same rate as surface temperatures. Or, as a 2006 report by the US Climate Change Science Program (pdf) puts it: "For recent decades, all current atmospheric data sets now show global-average warming that is similar to the surface warming." This one appears settled.

There is still some ambiguity in the tropics, where most measurements show the surface warming faster than the upper troposphere, whereas the models predict faster warming of the atmosphere. However, this is a minor discrepancy compared with cooling of the entire troposphere and could just be due to the errors of margin inherent in both the observations and the models

 

[Old Rocks]

Warming is not a belief, it's a reality.

The earth is warming and the ice is melting.

As usual, you are wrong but completely blinded by your belief system and not science.

Not that you will read them because they don't fit your agenda, but one can try:

Climate myths: The lower atmosphere is cooling, not warming - environment - 16 May 2007 - New Scientist

From the Copenhagen summit
Copenhagen climate change summit: The world is COOLING not warming says scientist Peter Taylor ... and we're not prepared | Mail Online

Scientist opposing the warming belief
List of scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ice In The Greenhouse: Earth May Be Cooling, Not Warming

This was caused by
1# A powerful solar minimum that hit bottom in 2007-2008. Look at 1996-1997 time frame for the effects the solar min had. Not just the volcano that happened in the early 1990s. Look at the Dalton grand minimum for more. ->Maunder minimum=little ice age.

2# La nina.

Yes the world was cooling off because of those factors, but the world has turned around and has warmed close to 1998 during the first 3-4 months(If you believe the temperature data) this year because of the strongest el nino in 12 years. El nino or enso is causing the up and downs. It is the main short term global temperature changer there is outside of a very big volcano. See Enso controls the temperature of much of the Pacific in some ways and controls weather patterns world wide. Some areas half way around the world can totally have different effects on the weather one year to the next because of it.

Like one area can have a nino and have a snowy weather out on the east coast and another can have a nina and have snowy weather out west.

2000 to 2009, warmest decade on record. 1990 to 1999, second warmest decade on record. 1980 to 1989, third warmest decade on record. 2010, first year of the coming decade, already showing signs of being the warmest year yet recorded.

One might say a trend is evident here.

 

[gslack]

More BULLSHIT mantra....

 

[Old Rocks]

Link, Suckeee......? Or do you honestly believe silly one liners are equal to what real scientists state?

 

[gslack]

Link, Suckeee......? Or do you honestly believe silly one liners are equal to what real scientists state?

Go shit in your hat tool... You post lying propaganda willingly... You have lied in this forum time and again blatantly and deliberately, so anything you say is suspect..

 

[Old Rocks]

Poor ol' Suckeee...... Cannot answer reality, resorts to mindless name calling.

Arctic Sea Ice News & Analysis

 

[Old Rocks]

Arctic Sea Ice News & Analysis

June 8, 2010
Arctic sea ice extent declines rapidly in May
In May, Arctic air temperatures remained above average, and sea ice extent declined at a rapid pace. At the end of the month, extent fell near the level recorded in 2006, the lowest in the satellite record for the end of May. Analysis from scientists at the University of Washington suggests that ice volume has continued to decline compared to recent years. However, it is too soon to say whether Arctic ice extent will reach another record low this summer—that will depend on the weather and wind conditions over the next few months.

Figure 1. Arctic sea ice extent for May 2010 was 13.10 million square kilometers (5.06 million square miles). The magenta line shows the 1979 to 2000 median extent for that month. The black cross indicates the geographic North Pole. Sea Ice Index data. About the data.
—Credit: National Snow and Ice Data Center

High-resolution image Overview of conditions

Arctic sea ice extent averaged 13.10 million square kilometers (5.06 million square miles) for the month of May, 500,000 square kilometers (193,000 square miles) below the 1979 to 2000 average. The rate of ice extent decline for the month was -68,000 kilometers (-26,000 square miles) per day, almost 50% more than the average rate of -46,000 kilometers (18,000 square miles) per day. This rate of loss is the highest for the month of May during the satellite record.

Ice extent remained slightly above average in the Bering Sea, and below average in the Barents Sea north of Scandinavia, and in Baffin Bay.

 

[gslack]

Poor ol' Suckeee...... Cannot answer reality, resorts to mindless name calling.

Arctic Sea Ice News & Analysis

No its factual and all here in this forum.. I have decided i am tired of poking you... Until you bring something new, original or compelling, and not re-hashed nonsense like your usual; i will save my time...

 

[Old Rocks]

I'm beginning to think its an exercise in futility Gslack. I think you're most probably right. But I think the warmers will just keep posting those same tired, flawed, or selective sources again and again until we get tired of responding to them. And then they'll think they won. And then the thread will fade into oblivion. And sooner or later somebody will start a new thread on global warming.

Oh well. It's something to do.

You have yet to respond with anything that is credible.

 

[Old Rocks]

Oh my, my feelings are so hurt.

 

[RollingThunder]

It was linked in my first response but since it did not agree with the warming belief system, was discounted as a useless site. You again with the infantile name calling. When you grow up, perhaps a debate will be worth it, until then, keep showing yourself as a name caller rather than an adult with something worthwhile to say.

Warming is not a belief, it's a reality.

The earth is warming and the ice is melting.

BULLSHIT its not a belief..

A few hundred years ago, the most educated minds in Europe was certain the earth was flat... Ya know who in Europe at the time knew it was round? Sailors.... They knew it and it showed in their charts and navigation... But the church was in control of education back then and the church didn't want to have to accept they were wrong or the Bible didn't mention it so it had to be wrong...

So no scientists or educated people at the time would even consider it in public... in private however they knew better and even helped and traded knowledge with the navigators and map makers....

That sound familiar fool????

It's the age old fear tactic to control the masses you twit.. nothing new here... The game is the same only the players have changed.. now its not the church because they do not hold power like they did. Today its the governments who hold power so this time its used to get a CO2 tax on life....

Grow up dreamer you are the same ignorant people who thought Columbus was going to sail off the edge of the world way back when. They believed it because their presumed betters or the ones deemed holiest and wisest, told them so. And no amount of common sense, sound logic, and deductive reason based on everyday sensory input, and the words of the very men who actually had the most knowledge on it was enough to sway them..

you are the peasants back then all buying into bullshit. This time its not fear of gods wrath that motivates you, its the fear of natures wrath.... hello???? Getting any of this yet?

You fucking idiots crack me up.... You get told by your own sources how it is but you fail to read it. You take a headline or a claim made out of context or just simply made up, and yell "Eureka! I have it" like an idiot....

It is hardly surprising that a retarded ideologue like the slack-jawed-idiot, for whom all of this is political (or perhaps just deranged) and not scientific, would be ignorant enough to make these claims. He is always making completely unsupported claims about subjects he knows nothing about because he heard Rush or some other denier cult propagandist say it. Once again he has displayed his ignorance and imbecility for all to see.

Myth of the Flat Earth
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For mythologies involving the belief in a Flat Earth, see Flat Earth.

Illustration of the spherical Earth in a 14th century copy of L'Image du monde (ca. 1246).

The myth of the Flat Earth is the modern misconception that the prevailing cosmological view during the Middle Ages saw the Earth as flat, instead of spherical. During the early Middle Ages, virtually all scholars maintained the spherical viewpoint first expressed by the Ancient Greeks. By the 14th century, belief in a flat earth among the educated was essentially dead. Flat-Earth models were in fact held at earlier (pre-medieval) times, before the spherical model became commonly accepted in Hellenistic astronomy.[1].

According to Stephen Jay Gould, "there never was a period of "flat earth darkness" among scholars (regardless of how the public at large may have conceptualized our planet both then and now). Greek knowledge of sphericity never faded, and all major medieval scholars accepted the earth's roundness as an established fact of cosmology."[2]

David C. Lindberg and Numbers point out that "there was scarcely a Christian scholar of the Middle Ages who did not acknowledge [Earth's] sphericity and even know its approximate circumference".[3][4]

Jeffrey Burton Russell says the flat earth mythology flourished most between 1870 and 1920, and had to do with the ideological setting created by struggles over evolution. [1]

* "... with extraordinary [sic] few exceptions no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the earth was flat."[5]
* Russell concludes that Irving, Draper and White were the main writers responsible for introducing the erroneous flat-earth myth that is still with us today." [2] [3]

In 1945 the Historical Association listed "Columbus and the Flat Earth Conception" second of twenty in its first-published pamphlet on common errors in history.[6]
Contents

Origin

In Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus and Modern Historians, Jeffrey Russell (professor of history at University of California, Santa Barbara) claims that the Flat Earth theory is a fable used to impugn pre-modern civilization, especially that of the Middle Ages in Europe.[7]

James Hannam wrote:

* The myth that people in the Middle Ages thought the earth is flat appears to date from the 17th century as part of the campaign by Protestants against Catholic teaching. But it gained currency in the 19th century, thanks to inaccurate histories such as John William Draper's History of the Conflict Between Religion and Science (1874) and Andrew Dickson White's History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom (1896). Atheists and agnostics championed the conflict thesis for their own purpose ... [4]

Conflict between religion and science

The 19th century was a period in which the perception of an antagonism between religion and science was especially strong. The disputes surrounding the Darwinian revolution contributed to the birth of the conflict thesis,[2] a view of history according to which any interaction between religion and science almost inevitably would lead to open hostility, with religion usually taking the part of the aggressor against new scientific ideas.[8]
[edit] Irving's biography of Columbus

The first accounts of the legend have been traced to the 1830s. In 1828, Washington Irving's highly romanticised and inaccurate biography, The Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus,[9] was published and mistaken by many for a scholarly work.[10] In Book III, Chapter II of this biography, Irving gave a largely fictional account of the meetings of a commission established by the Spanish sovereigns to examine Columbus's proposals. One of his more fanciful embellishments was a highly unlikely tale that the more ignorant and bigoted members on the commission had raised scriptural objections to Columbus's assertions that the Earth was spherical.[11]

But in reality, the issue in the 1490s was not the shape of the Earth, but its size, and the position of the east coast of Asia. Historical estimates from Ptolemy onwards placed the coast of Asia about 180° east of the Canary Islands.[12]. Columbus adopted an earlier (and rejected) distance of 225°, added 28° (based on Marco Polo's travels), and then placed Japan another 30° further east. Starting from Cape St. Vincent in Portugal, Columbus made Eurasia stretch 283° to the east, leaving the Atlantic as only 77° wide. Since he planned to leave from the Canaries (9° further west), his trip to Japan would only have to cover 68° of longitude.[13]

Furthermore, Columbus mistakenly used a much shorter length for a degree (he substituted the shorter 1480 m Italian "mile" for the longer 2177 m Arabic "mile"), making his degree (and the circumference of the Earth) about 75% of what it really was.[14] The combined effect of these mistakes was that Columbus estimated the distance to Japan to be only about 5,000 km (or only to the eastern edge of the Caribbean) while the true figure is about 20,000 km. The Spanish scholars may not have known the exact distance to the east coast of Asia, but they certainly knew that it was significantly further than Columbus' projection; and this was the basis of the criticism in Spain and Portugal, whether academic or amongst mariners, of the proposed voyage.

The disputed point, therefore, was not the shape of the Earth, nor the idea that going west would eventually lead to Japan and China, but the ability of European ships to sail that far across open seas. The small ships of the day (Columbus' three ships varied between 20.5 and 23.5 m – or 67 to 77 feet – in length and carried about 90 men) simply could not carry enough food and water to reach Japan. In fact, the ships barely reached the eastern Caribbean islands. Already the crews were mutinous, not because of some fear of "sailing off the edge", but because they were running out of food and water with no chance of any new supplies within sailing distance. They were on the edge of starvation.[15] What saved Columbus, of course, was the unknown existence of the Americas precisely at the point he thought he would reach Japan. His ability to resupply with food and water from the Caribbean islands allowed him to return safely to Europe. Otherwise his crews would have died, and the ships foundered. The academics were right: it was not possible for a 1492 ship to sail west across open oceans directly to Japan; mariners would die long before their proposed arrival.

 

[gslack]

Sock attack!

 

[Foxfyre]

Sock attack!

 

[RollingThunder]

Sock attack!

:LOL:

Is foxfluffer g'sock's sock or vice versa? Or are they both just retarded farrightwingnut idiots from the astroturfed cult of denial that the fossil fuel industry has created to be their stooges?

And of course, once again, as usual, g'sock has no real response, this time to this most recent demonstration of his clueless idiocy and belief in myths like this "a few hundred years ago, the most educated minds in Europe was certain the earth was flat" nonsense. LOLOLOLOLOL.

 

[gslack]

Sock attack!

:LOL:

Is foxfluffer g'sock's sock or vice versa? Or are they both just retarded farrightwingnut idiots from the astroturfed cult of denial that the fossil fuel industry has created to be their stooges?

And of course, once again, as usual, g'sock has no real response, this time to this most recent demonstration of his clueless idiocy and belief in myths like this "a few hundred years ago, the most educated minds in Europe was certain the earth was flat" nonsense. LOLOLOLOLOL.

Ah dammit you caught me.... Fox has been here a lot longer than me,posts a lot nicer than me, and just to show how devious I truly am; we are on at the same time...... I am eeeevilll!....