Are "NDE's" real or imagined?

[K9Buck]

What I'm referring to is the experience of temporarily "dying" and then meeting God, passed loves ones, having heavenly or hellish experiences, etc.

A LOT of people have claimed to have had them. If you search YouTube, for instance, you'll come across seemingly countless testimonies by people who have claimed to have had such an experience. There are groups on Facebook dedicated to the phenomena as well.

I was acquainted with two different people that claimed to have had one. Both of their accounts seemed believable to me. Of course, one who KNOWS that there is no such thing as "God" or of "life after death" or Heaven won't accept any such claims.

While I've never had an NDE, I did have a supernatural experience with my wife. If she hadn't been there and confirmed to me what had happened, I might not have believed it myself.

For many reasons, I believe that some NDE's are legitimate. I don't necessarily believe every person who has claimed to have had one. I've seen so-called preachers on YouTube who have claimed to have many NDE's wherein they spoke to God, etc. Yea, religion has its share of scam artists just like every other industry.

I believe that people that fundamentally reject the concept of an NDE are simply unwilling to acknowledge that God is real and so is the afterlife. 2 Corinthians 4:4 explains that many have been "blinded" by Satan and his demons and are unable to see the evidence of God's existence. Many non-believers are, in my opinion, under demonic influence and that is why they are compelled to attack Christianity and its adherents. No, they don't believe in demons, but they exist and they whisper into the ears of the unbelievers and they do the bidding of those demons. Yes, that is my heartfelt belief.

 

[HaShev]

Michael Persinger on the Neurology of NDEs - Scientific and Medical Network

What happens in the brain during a Near Death Experience? Does an EEG flat-line mean that there is no brain activity during a NDE? Alex Tsakiris questions

explore.scimednet.org

Recreating Near-Death Experiences: A Cognitive Approach - Journal of Near-Death Studies

I describe a guided meditation that, when used by near-death experiencers (NDErs), recreates fragments of their NDEs. The meditation is based on Michael Persinger's neurological theory regarding the “God Experience,” and its success supports that theory. The present study included too few...

link.springer.com

 

[SweetSue92]

What I'm referring to is the experience of temporarily "dying" and then meeting God, passed loves ones, having heavenly or hellish experiences, etc.

A LOT of people have claimed to have had them. If you search YouTube, for instance, you'll come across seemingly countless testimonies by people who have claimed to have had such an experience. There are groups on Facebook dedicated to the phenomena as well.

I was acquainted with two different people that claimed to have had one. Both of their accounts seemed believable to me. Of course, one who KNOWS that there is no such thing as "God" or of "life after death" or Heaven won't accept any such claims.

While I've never had an NDE, I did have a supernatural experience with my wife. If she hadn't been there and confirmed to me what had happened, I might not have believed it myself.

For many reasons, I believe that some NDE's are legitimate. I don't necessarily believe every person who has claimed to have had one. I've seen so-called preachers on YouTube who have claimed to have many NDE's wherein they spoke to God, etc. Yea, religion has its share of scam artists just like every other industry.

I believe that people that fundamentally reject the concept of an NDE are simply unwilling to acknowledge that God is real and so is the afterlife. 2 Corinthians 4:4 explains that many have been "blinded" by Satan and his demons and are unable to see the evidence of God's existence. Many non-believers are, in my opinion, under demonic influence and that is why they are compelled to attack Christianity and its adherents. No, they don't believe in demons, but they exist and they whisper into the ears of the unbelievers and they do the bidding of those demons. Yes, that is my heartfelt belief.

I'm agnostic on NDE's, but lean skeptical, because Scripture is the revealed Word of God, not experiences as your brain is dying. However and of course, God is God, and can reveal Himself as He chooses. So has He revealed Himself to people as they are dying? Probably. In the frequency we see reported? Again, I'm skeptical.

Btw, agree with every word you typed re: demonic influence.

 

[K9Buck]

So has He revealed Himself to people as they are dying? Probably.

Medical technology has improved and doctors and nurses save more people who were momentarily "dead" and who then return to share what they experienced.

If you check out YouTube, you'll find a LOT of regular people that tell of their experiences.

 

[SweetSue92]

Medical technology has improved and doctors and nurses save more people who were momentarily "dead" and who then return to share what they experienced.

If you check out YouTube, you'll find a LOT of regular people that tell of their experiences.

Yes, I have seen some of them. I have seen people who were terrified, comforted, and people who say the met the Lord Jesus Christ and were saved. So, I'm not discounting it. God can do as God wants. But this is not the primary means of revelation. That would be the Word of God. I guess what I'm saying is, were I to witness to someone, I would not lead with, "I knew someone who almost died and met Jesus". I would lead with the Gospel and Scripture. And then "those with ears to hear, let them hear".

But, I'm guessing we don't really disagree on this.

 

[HaShev]

The Deception of Afterlife=Death

Truth About the Afterlife

hashev.tripod.com

 

[K9Buck]

Yes, I have seen some of them. I have seen people who were terrified, comforted, and people who say the met the Lord Jesus Christ and were saved. So, I'm not discounting it. God can do as God wants. But this is not the primary means of revelation. That would be the Word of God. I guess what I'm saying is, were I to witness to someone, I would not lead with, "I knew someone who almost died and met Jesus". I would lead with the Gospel and Scripture. And then "those with ears to hear, let them hear".

But, I'm guessing we don't really disagree on this.

I look at an NDE as a tremendous gift to the receiver as well as a message of hope to the rest of us. I agree with you that the word of God is what is most important.

 

[buttercup]

I agree with you guys that some are likely true, but many are not, in my view. In fact, the nonbelievers will probably scoff at this, but from a Christian perspective it's possible that some might be influenced by spiritual forces not of God, in order to deceive people about what comes after death.

This reminds me of a little video I saw a recently, about famous last words… I mean words some well-known people stated as they were dying.... I'll see if I can find that video and share it here I find it.

 

[cnm]

Near-death experiences that have been widely reported by patients now have a scientific explanation. This phenomenon is thought to be caused by the abnormal functioning of dopamine and oxygen flow.​

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The scientists published their findings in the journal Trends of Cognitive Sciences. Approximately 3% of the US population reports to have had a near-death experience, and they have been widely reported since ancient Greece. One study reported that many of people experiencing near-death experiences weren’t actually in danger of dying, though most thought they were.​

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This feeling is also common in patients with Cotard or walking corpse syndrome. They hold the delusional belief that they are deceased, and this occurs generally following trauma, such as the advanced stages of typhoid or multiple sclerosis.​

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The use of a number of medicinal or recreational drugs can often mirror the euphoria felt in near-death experiences, such as ketamine. All of the features of near-death experiences have some basis in normal brain function that has gone awry.​

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There is a problem with being able to analyze these near-death experiences experimentally instead of anecdotally but there is hope using cognitive neuroscience. Researchers might be able to duplicate these sensations by stimulating brain function in the lab, without putting anyone’s life in danger.​

+ I8 come

Is an NDE Real or a Hallucination? - Horizon Research

www.horizonresearch.org

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[via Scientific American]

 

[DudleySmith]

Medical technology has improved and doctors and nurses save more people who were momentarily "dead" and who then return to share what they experienced.

If you check out YouTube, you'll find a LOT of regular people that tell of their experiences.

There indeed seems to a large and growing number of people reporting such experiences, including a neurosurgeon who wasn't a religious man to begin with. He knows he was dead and not just dreaming and literally died on an operating table and came back. I tend to believe he isn't faking it, and there are multiple witnesses to his death and revival.

 

[cnm]

In regard to whether NDEs are real, an hallucination is experienced, not imagined.

 

[Winco]

It's just a dream.
You have them multiple times each night.

 

[DudleySmith]

I never had any dreams while under anesthetics on a operating table. I don't think it is even possible.

While under anesthesia during a medical procedure, does the patient dream?

Answer (1 of 45): I had my first anesthesia experience recently. I have had local anesthesia experience before but never general anesthesia. And for a person who’s a hypochondriac, I had a lot of apprehensions about anesthesia and being in the operation theatre. When I shared my concerns with my...

www.quora.com

"Can you dream while being under anesthesia?

The short answer is no.

First, bear in mind that general anesthesia (GA), while often euphemistically referred to as “sleep,” is in fact a drug-induced deep coma, during which brain activity is profoundly suppressed to produce a state that bears little physiological resemblance to natural sleep.

Electroencephalography (EEG) studies, which measure brain electrical activity using scalp electrodes, have long confirmed that the normal cyclic pattern of the stages of natural sleep are absent during GA. In particular, the REM (rapid eye movement) phase of sleep associated with arousal of the cerebral cortex for production of dreams is completely lacking during GA.

Since the question refers only to “anesthesia” and not necessarily GA, one caveat is that it’s possible to have surgery under regional anesthesia (peripheral nerve blocks, spinals, epidurals, etc.) combined with light IV sedation. The patients may be “asleep” in a more conventional sense, since they are already insensible to incisional pain from the nerve block, whereby the sedation is essentially optional.

Here it’s possible for patients to experience dreaming or dream-like states because they are not, in fact, comatose during surgery. Some intravenous anesthetic agents, such as ketamine, are considered hallucinogenic and commonly associated with dreams or dream-like experiences when used in small doses. Even with more conventional sedative-hypnotic agents, such as Propofol or Versed, some patients report dream activity.

Which brings me back to my opening statement about dreaming under GA: The short answer is no, but the longer answer is that small number of patients under GA, which usually includes a component of inhalation anesthesia combined with other intravenous components, afterward report dreaming; we believe them.

I still maintain that this is impossible under full general anesthesia. Once the surgery is completed & the patient is transported to the recovery area, however, the patient is allowed to gradually awaken as they emerge from anesthesia. There is a corresponding transition from deeply suppressed brain activity to normal electrical activity with wakefulness. Unconscious to conscious.

It is during this transition period of emergence that dreaming might take place. The patient simply regains consciousness and reports the dreams they experienced, not realizing that the dreaming occurred at the end of the anesthetic, during emergence after surgery, rather than while they were fully anesthetized during surgery."

So, even in recovery it is very rare to dream, except with certain methods of anesthesia.

 

[K9Buck]

In regard to whether NDEs are real, an hallucination is experienced, not imagined.

The essence of an NDA is that a person leaves their Earthly body and goes to Heaven or meets Jesus or previously passed family, etc. If those experiences are real then they are not "halucinations". The challenge for most of us is that there is no real way to know one way or the other.

 

[Penelope]

Hallucinations are sensory experiences that appear real but are created by your mind. They can affect all five of your senses. For example, you might hear a voice that no one else in the room can hear or see an image that isn't real.

Hallucinations: Types, Causes, and Diagnosis - Healthline​

 

[DudleySmith]

Hallucinations are sensory experiences that appear real but are created by your mind. They can affect all five of your senses. For example, you might hear a voice that no one else in the room can hear or see an image that isn't real.

Hallucinations: Types, Causes, and Diagnosis - Healthline​

Rubbish. You're just hallucinating again.

 

[RodISHI]

I have no doubt about the experiences that take place in the Spirit that is with and within humankind.

Job
33:15 In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed;
33:16 Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction,
33:17 That he may withdraw man from his purpose, and hide pride from man.

Sleep

H5307 - nāp̄al - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)

H5307 - נָפַל nâphal, naw-fal'; a primitive root; to fall, in a great variety of applications (intransitive or causative, literal or figurative):—be accepted, cast (down, self, (lots), out), cease, die, divide (by lot), (let) fail, (cause to, let, make, ready to) fall (away, down, -en, -ing)...

www.blueletterbible.org

 

[TNHarley]

Here is an explanation of NDEs. This makes sense as it applies what actually happens to the brain.

+ I8 come

Is an NDE Real or a Hallucination? - Horizon Research

www.horizonresearch.org

Is it true that when one has a cardiac arrest, after 4 minutes irreversible brain damage occurs? Although this is not quite the case, what is true is that the energy stores one has, only last 4 minutes. Stored oxygen levels (in the brain) for instance, are minimal and only last 2 minutes, whereas nutrients (stored in the brain cells) only last 4 minutes. After this cells start to undergo changes, they start to open up, calcium starts coming in and various chemical processes start to occur.

How the body responds during cardiac arrest

Also, when someone is about to die, the body initially responds by releasing certain chemicals and steroids to try and maintain the blood pressure and allow sufficient blood to get to the brain. After a while, however, the blood pressure drops and there is thus reduced blood flow to the brain, which will in turn activate certain parts of the brain and lead to the near death experience.

Are NDEs hallucinations

Because of these chemical process that take place, the most widely accepted scientific arguments to explain the causation of near death experiences, have largely centred around the concept that the experiences are hallucinations in response to changes in the brain at the time of death. It is a well-established fact that changes in the amounts of the chemicals or neurotransmitters in the brain can lead to 'abnormal' and disordered thought processes, or in other words a hallucination. These physiological and chemical derangements, accompanying the process of death, are thought to cause the near death experience. It has been argued that NDEs seem real to those who experience them, just like hallucinations often seem very real but do not correspond to objective reality.


I have also read that the hallucinations one experiences depend on the persons thought process. IE religion.

 

[K9Buck]

Here is an explanation of NDEs.

Thanks for the feedback. These types of explanations are what I describe as ABG theory, meaning, ANYTHING but God. In other words, the close-minded atheist will give credence to ANY theory, just as long as it excludes the possibility of a creator.

 

[TNHarley]

Thanks for the feedback. These types of explanations are what I describe as ABG theory, meaning, ANYTHING but God. In other words, the close-minded atheist will give credence to ANY theory, just as long as it excludes the possibility of a creator.

Its about the neurological process. Stop trying to find things that arent there...
Again, im not an atheist. I just dont believe in your god. It isnt a binary subject.
Also, you are a person that should probably avoid the phrase "close minded"... JS