Zone1 And Jesus said "Depart from me, all you..." What? Evil believers? No, "Evildoers"

[hadit]

That definition is miles off. An atheist does not deny God's existence. An atheist is convinced there is no God to deny.

Semantics. The end result is the same, he rejects God's existence and will be rejected by God.

 

[Meriweather]

It's far more than one verse, and you are not a Bible scholar if you pretend it is. You're trying to ignore that passage by pretending it's only "one verse". Don't do that.

I am saying plucking one verse from the Bible to make a point is pointless. Too much is left out.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm not, Jesus is:

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Even those who have impressive lists of things they did in God's name, even miracles, will be denied by Christ if He does not know them. I'm not saying it, Jesus is. Do you deny Him?

Not another verse from you! Jesus is not addressing atheists; he is addressing those who used him for their own ends. Jesus never did have much patience for hypocrites.

 

[Meriweather]

Semantics. The end result is the same, he rejects God's existence and will be rejected by God.

Rather, those who know God and reject him can go their own way.

 

[hadit]

I am saying plucking one verse from the Bible to make a point is pointless. Too much is left out.

And I didn't do that. I posted that verse IN CONTEXT, and cited the place where it came from. It's not the only place that Scripture says that, either. Will you please deal with the passage I cited?

 

[hadit]

Not another verse from you! Jesus is not addressing atheists; he is addressing those who used him for their own ends. Jesus never did have much patience for hypocrites.

He is clearly addressing those who think they have done so many things for God that He will accept them on their merits and have not bothered to actually have a relationship with Him.

 

[hadit]

Rather, those who know God and reject him can go their own way.

You will not spend eternity in God's presence if you deny His existence.

 

[Meriweather]

And I didn't do that. I posted that verse IN CONTEXT, and cited the place where it came from. It's not the only place that Scripture says that, either. Will you please deal with the passage I cited?

You don't understand what I am saying. Lifting ANY verse out of the whole of the Bible is out of context. I already dealt with it.

 

[Meriweather]

He is clearly addressing those who think they have done so many things for God that He will accept them on their merits and have not bothered to actually have a relationship with Him.

You will not spend eternity in God's presence if you deny His existence.

Let's not limit the limitless--i.e., the love and mercy of God.

 

[hadit]

You don't understand what I am saying. Lifting ANY verse out of the whole of the Bible is out of context. I already dealt with it.

Do an old man a favor and point out where you did, because I don't want you to repeat yourself unnecessarily. I would like to hear what you think of that PASSAGE, note I did not say one verse. How do you deal with Romans 4 that clearly indicates God values faith so highly that He credits it for righteousness, even though people are not working for it?

 

[hadit]

Let's not limit the limitless--i.e., the love and mercy of God.

Let us also not ignore God's justice, which is every bit as deep and limitless as His love and mercy. Answer me this, do you believe that God forgives unrepented sin? Do you believe He will accept into eternity with Him those who reject Him their entire lives?

Or do you, as I do, believe that God will give each person what they most desire, eternity with or without Him? Yes, God's mercy and grace are limitless, but so is His justice. Sin must be accounted for.

 

[Hawkins]

The verse only illustrates the difference between Law and Covenant. When you said "Oh Lord" with your mouth, Law won't be able to tell whether it's a lie. Law won't be able to tell if you are a true believer or not. So when you said "Oh Lord" with your mouth, the Judgment of Law (if there's any) can only assume that you are a believer.

The Judgment of Covenant is something else. It is a subjective judgment by Jesus Christ and He as God the Son can judge heart to tell whether you are a qualified (in terms of the Covenant) believer. He can reject you if you are not a true believer though with "Oh Lord" in your mouth.

 

[Meriweather]

Do an old man a favor and point out where you did, because I don't want you to repeat yourself unnecessarily. I would like to hear what you think of that PASSAGE, note I did not say one verse. How do you deal with Romans 4 that clearly indicates God values faith so highly that He credits it for righteousness, even though people are not working for it?

Post #173

 

[hadit]

Post #173

I replied to that one but did not see anything that dealt directly with what the writer of Romans was talking about, namely that even those who do not work, but have faith have that faith credited to them for righteousness.

 

[Meriweather]

I replied to that one but did not see anything that dealt directly with what the writer of Romans was talking about, namely that even those who do not work, but have faith have that faith credited to them for righteousness.

The question to address is that a man of faith with no works is credited with righteousness. However, a righteous man with no faith, has zero credit?

Earlier in Romans Paul speaks of God judging a man's deeds; that those following the Law will be judged under the Law; that those not under the Law will have their deeds judged under their God-given conscience.

Consider non-belief as one deed a man chooses. This very well may count against him when all his deeds are judged. We believe God is just. For that reason the deed of non-belief, in all that is just, would not knock out all other good works a person lived by under their God-given conscience.

 

[forkintheroad7]

The question to address is that a man of faith with no works is credited with righteousness. However, a righteous man with no faith, has zero credit?

Earlier in Romans Paul speaks of God judging a man's deeds; that those following the Law will be judged under the Law; that those not under the Law will have their deeds judged under their God-given conscience.

Consider non-belief as one deed a man chooses. This very well may count against him when all his deeds are judged. We believe God is just. For that reason the deed of non-belief, in all that is just, would not knock out all other good works a person lived by under their God-given conscience.

I have read some of what you and Hadit have been saying

As the footnotes in my Douay Rheims Bible says on this matter of faith and works:

(my paraphrase but I don't paraphrase loosely)

The good works that a person does, when not done for God/Christ, do not count. Pagans and others who do good deeds just because... who knows? Maybe said good deeds benefit the do-gooder as much as anyone else? But in any case, those good deeds do not count because they are not done for God in Christ.

The good that is done in Christ is the good work that will count.. the good work referenced in James 2 where it says that Faith without works is dead.

 

[hadit]

The question to address is that a man of faith with no works is credited with righteousness.

That is what we read, yes.

However, a righteous man with no faith, has zero credit?

Is a man righteous who has no faith? Scripture says that without faith it is impossible to please God. IOW, how can he be considered righteous without faith? He does good things, great. Does he do them for the glory of God or for his own selfish purposes?

Earlier in Romans Paul speaks of God judging a man's deeds; that those following the Law will be judged under the Law; that those not under the Law will have their deeds judged under their God-given conscience.

And those in Christ are judged by neither, because of Him. That is the Gospel. Those who try to be justified by following the Law will also be judged BY the Law and found wanting. Again, that's where faith comes in, because none of us can be "good enough" on our own. We have to trust that God not only exists but wants us to live with Him forever. The bottom line remains, good deeds do not wipe out or cancel sin.

Consider non-belief as one deed a man chooses. This very well may count against him when all his deeds are judged. We believe God is just. For that reason the deed of non-belief, in all that is just, would not knock out all other good works a person lived by under their God-given conscience.

Non-belief is deadly, because how can God forgive sin when a person is not penitent because they refuse to believe? And don't tell me I'm limiting God, I'm just going by what He has to say on the subject of sin. I'm sure I'll be surprised both by who is in heaven and who is not.

 

[forkintheroad7]

It's fascinating that the etymology of heretic/heresy is to choose. Students were given issues to study and were then encouraged to choose. The usage became more negative when the choice differed from orthodox Christianity.

This is the most incoherent comment you have posted so far! First you bring up etymology as you often do and then you are

all over the place!

When fellow posters can't tell what the main point is, it's a fail.

In any case, we'd like to know what you have to say about the OP

 

[Meriweather]

Non-belief is deadly, because how can God forgive sin when a person is not penitent because they refuse to believe? And don't tell me I'm limiting God, I'm just going by what He has to say on the subject of sin. I'm sure I'll be surprised both by who is in heaven and who is not.

Points to ponder is that Jesus commanded we spread the Good News. He asked us to love as he loves. He taught God is love. Somehow, telling anyone they won't be forgiven for anything, their goodness will be looked on as filth, falls well short of teaching the love of God and his Good News.

 

[Meriweather]

So much for what you believe. A lot of Protestants wax superior in the fake knowledge that their beliefs are better than... totally superior to, those of the Catholics..

Presenting a different perspective is not waxing superior to Catholic beliefs.

This is the most incoherent comment you have posted so far! First you bring up etymology as you often do and then you are

all over the place!

When fellow posters can't tell what the main point is, it's a fail.

In any case, we'd like to know what you have to say about the OP

I apologize for posting something incoherent.