Are We Alone in the Universe?

[The Sage of Main Street]

That was a rather week response and it appears to have taken you a long time to think of it.

Being able to grasp an object is far different than creating a tool and dominating other species with such Sentient abilities.

Otherwise Squirrels, Possums, Raccoons and Monkeys would be going to Law School and Running for Congress, or teaching at the school you graduated from

You seem limited in your ability to grasp things outside yourself other than a mechanical like understanding of the world around you.

When you can answer the questions I have posed to you as to why man is so unique in a multifaceted capacity, then perhaps you will have had an epiphany.

Until then, you may continue on with defense of “Man I’d Just an Animal”
Nothing to see here....move along.

Man is Lord and Master over all other species because he is Sentient.

Because he is Sentient, anything he lacks in comparison to all other species he can overcome through “Invention”.

Man can create, because he has the traits of his Father, The Watchmaker who created him. Thus, he holds in his hand and in his mind, the power of creation.

No other species is capable of this.

Man has language because “The Word” is his Father.

Man can learn, write speak and interpret multiple languages.

He can even invent languages.

No other species can do this.

Man is Sentient because he is a child of “Logos”.

No other species has these traits.

If the Pinacle of all life on Earth and all Evolution, is to become man with his vast intellect and advantages over all other species, then Evolution is the most lobsided Genetic Arms Race That EVER EXISTED in the Struggle for Survival.

There isn’t even a 2nd place, 3rd place or participation trophy you could award any other species even to say “thanks for trying”. You can’t even hand out a t-shirt for the effort.

They wouldn’t know what the Hell it was.

Sentience isn't the only reason for mankind's technology. Opposable thumbs help a bunch.

My reply took all of about 30 seconds to think of. I'm not waiting breathless for your replies.

Yes, intelligence is required to create technology. My point was that intelligence is not the only thing involved in the creation of technology. Whales, for example, are limited both by their lack of grasping ability and by the environment they live in (using fire would be a pretty nifty trick for an ocean-dwelling creature). So, while it's possible that whales are both sentient and use language, the physical differences between the species could have determined why humans grew into the technological creatures we are while whales did not.

Obviously that's speculation.

Man is unique in some ways, I don't deny that. I'm sure many animals and plants have unique characteristics that humanity does not. What is your point?

And what is with this recurring theme that intelligence or humanity are some sort of pinnacle?

Prometheus Shrugged

You're jealous of High IQ creative genius, yet they created everything that keeps you from living like a desperate wild animal. They also created all the wealth stolen from them by the plutocracy, which manipulated you into your illogical insults and ingratitude.

What are you talking about? My "illogical insults and ingratitude"?

Mere Survival Is Failure

You can't get off the hook by pretending you don't understand. You know perfectly well that ascribing mankind's success to physical evolution is an insult to intelligence. You're also Postmodern Decadent in saying that the evolutionary goal of homo sapiens is no different from that of the animals.

 

[Foxfyre]

My point is that you don’t have a point.

You cannot even agree with your own Mantra of The LAW if the Jungle and Survival of The Fittest.

You have to deny the uniqueness of man in order to make a weak argument.

Since we are talking about survival of the fittest, tell the whales to evolve a way to throw harpoons back at man before we hunt them to extinction.

If we are mere animals, then things like Conservation, showing mercy to an enemy and self restraint; things unique to man need not be exercised.

Neither should we follow any rules or ethics or commandments. If I want your land, your possessions your woman, I take them because you are weak.

Like I said,your intellect is mechanically limited by what could only be an indoctrinated education in to liberal paradigms.

It’s sad really that you cannot overcome that.

Now please return to your Squirrel Overlords, and Their Nut Farm.

Wow, that was some ramble. Do you feel better?

When you try to have a dialogue with someone, and they ignore every point you make, and their final whimpering argument is "what about opposable thumbs" I think it's time to just throw the hammer down on them. That's why I told the poster he had no point, because he wasn't having a discussion, he was engaging in deflection.

Maybe the next election The Democrats should try to run an Evolutionist Possum as President. Not only do they have opposable thumbs, but they have a prehensile tail too. And when they play dead, they sure as Hell would look a lot more alive than Hillary Clinton.

Opposable Thumbs – Uniquely Human? Not hardly.

"Other animals with opposable thumbs include gorillas, chimpanzees, orangutans, and other variants of apes; certain frogs, koalas, pandas, possums and opossums, and many birds have an opposable digit of some sort. Many dinosaurs had opposable digits as well."

"Told the poster he had no point"....do you understand you have only been talking with one poster here?

I have not ignored every point you have made. I have, in fact, specifically responded to multiple points you have made.

You went on to start having arguments with straw men, such as that I denied the uniqueness of man (I did not, and in fact mentioned that man has unique characteristics), or that I cannot agree with my mantra of law of the jungle and survival of the fittest (that is my mantra?). You also threw out some random stuff about not having commandments if humans are a type of animal, and how I should tell whales to evolve to throw harpoons back at man.

If you are trying to have a dialogue, you might want to cut back on the random nonsense.

Good job trying to make evolution about US political parties, by the way!

And to try to direct this back toward the original intent of the thread, do you think that it is possible another intelligent, technological life might exist in the universe?

The original intent of what I posted, was that Man is Unique, and there is more evidence that he was Created rather than was evolved. If that is true then there are two legitimate reasons for why we are not having regular contact with other Sentient Beings.

Meanwhile back on Earth....

Other species have had the chance to evolve, and The Theory of Evolution more or less states that Genetic Dominance is the goal.....it's the whole point....so anyone who wants to simply make logical deductions, need to ask themselves, why the rest of the participants in the Genetic Pool on Earth are Pathetic Losers.

If there is advanced life on other habitable planets they would have made contact by now, if Evolution is the primary driver of life on a planet.

Billions of years is more than enough time for this to happen.

Opposable thumbs or not.

What makes the rest of life on Earth "Pathetic Losers"? There is no "goal" of evolution, it is a description of the changes that happen in life forms over time. If you were to ascribe a goal to evolution, I think it would be to survive and procreate.

If there is advanced life on other planets, why would they have made contact by now? And what does it have to do with evolution? Are you aware that the universe encompasses a vast, vast area? The closest star to our solar system, Proxima Centauri, is over 4 light years away. That means it takes light more than 4 years to get from here to that star. Humanity cannot get anywhere close to the speed of light, and it may even be that matter simply cannot travel that fast. Considering the incredibly vast distances involved and the possible limitations on travel speed, why do you believe that another intelligent life form would have to have made contact with humanity by now?

You were doing great until you got to our ability to achieve the speed of light.

A few months ago we treated some out of town friends to a movie "Space" at the Dynamax Theater at our local Science and Natural History museum. It was a highly instructive teaching of all the newest things we have discovered about space and the relationship of all that we know is in it to Planet Earth. (It was also in 3D which was a real treat for Hombre as he had never seen a 3D movie.)

As you know, I have had a long fascination with possibilities in space travel and have longed for technology that would allow travel at multiple warp speeds such as was envisioned in the "Star Trek" series or the "Star Wars" trilogy while fully realizing this is just wonderful fictitious imagination. Until now.

In the movie they showed a concept of how humankind, with the right kind of technology and machine, could achieve warp speed (speed of light) and beyond. It is entirely possible and plausible. We haven't figured out how to make it happen yet, but it is now obvious that it is on the scientific drawing board as a goal to accomplish.

So, assuming that we Earthlings are probably in technological infancy compared to at least some other civilizations in the universe, and given the large number of unexplained sightings and encounters of UFOs, I think it highly likely that one or more of those civilizations has probably been here. I also think they have also evolved to the point that they intend us no harm because with their superior technology, they certainly could have harmed us.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I don't think we are alone but I'm in no hurry to meet a technologically superior race that will wipe us out in order to take control of our planet

 

[Moonglow]

We're just ugly bags of mostly water.

and carbon..

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't think we are alone but I'm in no hurry to meet a technologically superior race that will wipe us out in order to take control of our planet

I think it highly likely we have already met so technologically superior race that has had us under surveillance for some time now. I am pretty sure if their intent was to wipe us out and take control of our planet they would have already done so.

I like to think such an advanced species has already made most of its mistakes and has learned how to live together cooperative and constructively, i.e. is past its predatory stage. They probably would be watching to be sure we also learn that before our technology becomes advanced enough to be a threat to others.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I don't think we are alone but I'm in no hurry to meet a technologically superior race that will wipe us out in order to take control of our planet

I think it highly likely we have already met so technologically superior race that has had us under surveillance for some time now. I am pretty sure if their intent was to wipe us out and take control of our planet they would have already done so.

I like to think such an advanced species has already made most of its mistakes and has learned how to live together cooperative and constructively, i.e. is past its predatory stage. They probably would be watching to be sure we also learn that before our technology becomes advanced enough to be a threat to others.

That's a dangerous assumption,

 

[Montrovant]

That was a rather week response and it appears to have taken you a long time to think of it.

Being able to grasp an object is far different than creating a tool and dominating other species with such Sentient abilities.

Otherwise Squirrels, Possums, Raccoons and Monkeys would be going to Law School and Running for Congress, or teaching at the school you graduated from

You seem limited in your ability to grasp things outside yourself other than a mechanical like understanding of the world around you.

When you can answer the questions I have posed to you as to why man is so unique in a multifaceted capacity, then perhaps you will have had an epiphany.

Until then, you may continue on with defense of “Man I’d Just an Animal”
Nothing to see here....move along.

Sentience isn't the only reason for mankind's technology. Opposable thumbs help a bunch.

My reply took all of about 30 seconds to think of. I'm not waiting breathless for your replies.

Yes, intelligence is required to create technology. My point was that intelligence is not the only thing involved in the creation of technology. Whales, for example, are limited both by their lack of grasping ability and by the environment they live in (using fire would be a pretty nifty trick for an ocean-dwelling creature). So, while it's possible that whales are both sentient and use language, the physical differences between the species could have determined why humans grew into the technological creatures we are while whales did not.

Obviously that's speculation.

Man is unique in some ways, I don't deny that. I'm sure many animals and plants have unique characteristics that humanity does not. What is your point?

And what is with this recurring theme that intelligence or humanity are some sort of pinnacle?

Prometheus Shrugged

You're jealous of High IQ creative genius, yet they created everything that keeps you from living like a desperate wild animal. They also created all the wealth stolen from them by the plutocracy, which manipulated you into your illogical insults and ingratitude.

What are you talking about? My "illogical insults and ingratitude"?

Mere Survival Is Failure

You can't get off the hook by pretending you don't understand. You know perfectly well that ascribing mankind's success to physical evolution is an insult to intelligence. You're also Postmodern Decadent in saying that the evolutionary goal of homo sapiens is no different from that of the animals.

Wait, belief in evolution is an insult to intelligence?

And are you saying that evolution works differently with humanity than it does with other species?

 

[alang1216]

I don't think we are alone but I'm in no hurry to meet a technologically superior race that will wipe us out in order to take control of our planet

I think it highly likely we have already met so technologically superior race that has had us under surveillance for some time now. I am pretty sure if their intent was to wipe us out and take control of our planet they would have already done so.

I like to think such an advanced species has already made most of its mistakes and has learned how to live together cooperative and constructively, i.e. is past its predatory stage. They probably would be watching to be sure we also learn that before our technology becomes advanced enough to be a threat to others.

I agree we could be under study already but that is all they want from us. Like we would study a colony of ants just to learn about them, we wouldn't care if they wiped out a termite nest or were themselves wiped out.

 

[Montrovant]

Wow, that was some ramble. Do you feel better?

When you try to have a dialogue with someone, and they ignore every point you make, and their final whimpering argument is "what about opposable thumbs" I think it's time to just throw the hammer down on them. That's why I told the poster he had no point, because he wasn't having a discussion, he was engaging in deflection.

Maybe the next election The Democrats should try to run an Evolutionist Possum as President. Not only do they have opposable thumbs, but they have a prehensile tail too. And when they play dead, they sure as Hell would look a lot more alive than Hillary Clinton.

Opposable Thumbs – Uniquely Human? Not hardly.

"Other animals with opposable thumbs include gorillas, chimpanzees, orangutans, and other variants of apes; certain frogs, koalas, pandas, possums and opossums, and many birds have an opposable digit of some sort. Many dinosaurs had opposable digits as well."

"Told the poster he had no point"....do you understand you have only been talking with one poster here?

I have not ignored every point you have made. I have, in fact, specifically responded to multiple points you have made.

You went on to start having arguments with straw men, such as that I denied the uniqueness of man (I did not, and in fact mentioned that man has unique characteristics), or that I cannot agree with my mantra of law of the jungle and survival of the fittest (that is my mantra?). You also threw out some random stuff about not having commandments if humans are a type of animal, and how I should tell whales to evolve to throw harpoons back at man.

If you are trying to have a dialogue, you might want to cut back on the random nonsense.

Good job trying to make evolution about US political parties, by the way!

And to try to direct this back toward the original intent of the thread, do you think that it is possible another intelligent, technological life might exist in the universe?

The original intent of what I posted, was that Man is Unique, and there is more evidence that he was Created rather than was evolved. If that is true then there are two legitimate reasons for why we are not having regular contact with other Sentient Beings.

Meanwhile back on Earth....

Other species have had the chance to evolve, and The Theory of Evolution more or less states that Genetic Dominance is the goal.....it's the whole point....so anyone who wants to simply make logical deductions, need to ask themselves, why the rest of the participants in the Genetic Pool on Earth are Pathetic Losers.

If there is advanced life on other habitable planets they would have made contact by now, if Evolution is the primary driver of life on a planet.

Billions of years is more than enough time for this to happen.

Opposable thumbs or not.

What makes the rest of life on Earth "Pathetic Losers"? There is no "goal" of evolution, it is a description of the changes that happen in life forms over time. If you were to ascribe a goal to evolution, I think it would be to survive and procreate.

If there is advanced life on other planets, why would they have made contact by now? And what does it have to do with evolution? Are you aware that the universe encompasses a vast, vast area? The closest star to our solar system, Proxima Centauri, is over 4 light years away. That means it takes light more than 4 years to get from here to that star. Humanity cannot get anywhere close to the speed of light, and it may even be that matter simply cannot travel that fast. Considering the incredibly vast distances involved and the possible limitations on travel speed, why do you believe that another intelligent life form would have to have made contact with humanity by now?

You were doing great until you got to our ability to achieve the speed of light.

A few months ago we treated some out of town friends to a movie "Space" at the Dynamax Theater at our local Science and Natural History museum. It was a highly instructive teaching of all the newest things we have discovered about space and the relationship of all that we know is in it to Planet Earth. (It was also in 3D which was a real treat for Hombre as he had never seen a 3D movie.)

As you know, I have had a long fascination with possibilities in space travel and have longed for technology that would allow travel at multiple warp speeds such as was envisioned in the "Star Trek" series or the "Star Wars" trilogy while fully realizing this is just wonderful fictitious imagination. Until now.

In the movie they showed a concept of how humankind, with the right kind of technology and machine, could achieve warp speed (speed of light) and beyond. It is entirely possible and plausible. We haven't figured out how to make it happen yet, but it is now obvious that it is on the scientific drawing board as a goal to accomplish.

So, assuming that we Earthlings are probably in technological infancy compared to at least some other civilizations in the universe, and given the large number of unexplained sightings and encounters of UFOs, I think it highly likely that one or more of those civilizations has probably been here. I also think they have also evolved to the point that they intend us no harm because with their superior technology, they certainly could have harmed us.

Much as I'd love to see interstellar travel, there are some issues with this.

First, so far as I know, any concept for FTL travel is completely untested. As of now, humanity can't even come in shouting distance of the speed of light, let alone surpass it.

Second, even if it is possible, are the mechanical or energy requirements to do so feasible? If getting a ship to go FTL requires the equivalent of, say, the power used to run a major city, that could keep it from happening.

Third, even at FTL speeds, the vast majority of the universe may be out of reach. As I believe I pointed out, the closest star to our solar system is over 4 light years away. If we came up with a method of travel that let us go two times as fast as light speed.....it would still take 2 years just to get to the nearest star. To really explore the galaxy, let alone the universe, we would need to achieve speeds far in excess of the speed of light. We're talking hundreds or thousands of times faster than light. The Milky Way galaxy is estimated to be about 100,000 light years across. Even traveling at 100 times the speed of light, it would take a millennia to get from one side to the other.

Unless another intelligent life form comes from close by, cosmically speaking, or that intelligent life form has devised a way to travel at many, many times the speed of light, the odds are good we would not encounter them.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't think we are alone but I'm in no hurry to meet a technologically superior race that will wipe us out in order to take control of our planet

I think it highly likely we have already met so technologically superior race that has had us under surveillance for some time now. I am pretty sure if their intent was to wipe us out and take control of our planet they would have already done so.

I like to think such an advanced species has already made most of its mistakes and has learned how to live together cooperative and constructively, i.e. is past its predatory stage. They probably would be watching to be sure we also learn that before our technology becomes advanced enough to be a threat to others.

That's a dangerous assumption,

Perhaps. But it is a highly logical one.

 

[Foxfyre]

When you try to have a dialogue with someone, and they ignore every point you make, and their final whimpering argument is "what about opposable thumbs" I think it's time to just throw the hammer down on them. That's why I told the poster he had no point, because he wasn't having a discussion, he was engaging in deflection.

Maybe the next election The Democrats should try to run an Evolutionist Possum as President. Not only do they have opposable thumbs, but they have a prehensile tail too. And when they play dead, they sure as Hell would look a lot more alive than Hillary Clinton.

Opposable Thumbs – Uniquely Human? Not hardly.

"Other animals with opposable thumbs include gorillas, chimpanzees, orangutans, and other variants of apes; certain frogs, koalas, pandas, possums and opossums, and many birds have an opposable digit of some sort. Many dinosaurs had opposable digits as well."

"Told the poster he had no point"....do you understand you have only been talking with one poster here?

I have not ignored every point you have made. I have, in fact, specifically responded to multiple points you have made.

You went on to start having arguments with straw men, such as that I denied the uniqueness of man (I did not, and in fact mentioned that man has unique characteristics), or that I cannot agree with my mantra of law of the jungle and survival of the fittest (that is my mantra?). You also threw out some random stuff about not having commandments if humans are a type of animal, and how I should tell whales to evolve to throw harpoons back at man.

If you are trying to have a dialogue, you might want to cut back on the random nonsense.

Good job trying to make evolution about US political parties, by the way!

And to try to direct this back toward the original intent of the thread, do you think that it is possible another intelligent, technological life might exist in the universe?

The original intent of what I posted, was that Man is Unique, and there is more evidence that he was Created rather than was evolved. If that is true then there are two legitimate reasons for why we are not having regular contact with other Sentient Beings.

Meanwhile back on Earth....

Other species have had the chance to evolve, and The Theory of Evolution more or less states that Genetic Dominance is the goal.....it's the whole point....so anyone who wants to simply make logical deductions, need to ask themselves, why the rest of the participants in the Genetic Pool on Earth are Pathetic Losers.

If there is advanced life on other habitable planets they would have made contact by now, if Evolution is the primary driver of life on a planet.

Billions of years is more than enough time for this to happen.

Opposable thumbs or not.

What makes the rest of life on Earth "Pathetic Losers"? There is no "goal" of evolution, it is a description of the changes that happen in life forms over time. If you were to ascribe a goal to evolution, I think it would be to survive and procreate.

If there is advanced life on other planets, why would they have made contact by now? And what does it have to do with evolution? Are you aware that the universe encompasses a vast, vast area? The closest star to our solar system, Proxima Centauri, is over 4 light years away. That means it takes light more than 4 years to get from here to that star. Humanity cannot get anywhere close to the speed of light, and it may even be that matter simply cannot travel that fast. Considering the incredibly vast distances involved and the possible limitations on travel speed, why do you believe that another intelligent life form would have to have made contact with humanity by now?

You were doing great until you got to our ability to achieve the speed of light.

A few months ago we treated some out of town friends to a movie "Space" at the Dynamax Theater at our local Science and Natural History museum. It was a highly instructive teaching of all the newest things we have discovered about space and the relationship of all that we know is in it to Planet Earth. (It was also in 3D which was a real treat for Hombre as he had never seen a 3D movie.)

As you know, I have had a long fascination with possibilities in space travel and have longed for technology that would allow travel at multiple warp speeds such as was envisioned in the "Star Trek" series or the "Star Wars" trilogy while fully realizing this is just wonderful fictitious imagination. Until now.

In the movie they showed a concept of how humankind, with the right kind of technology and machine, could achieve warp speed (speed of light) and beyond. It is entirely possible and plausible. We haven't figured out how to make it happen yet, but it is now obvious that it is on the scientific drawing board as a goal to accomplish.

So, assuming that we Earthlings are probably in technological infancy compared to at least some other civilizations in the universe, and given the large number of unexplained sightings and encounters of UFOs, I think it highly likely that one or more of those civilizations has probably been here. I also think they have also evolved to the point that they intend us no harm because with their superior technology, they certainly could have harmed us.

Much as I'd love to see interstellar travel, there are some issues with this.

First, so far as I know, any concept for FTL travel is completely untested. As of now, humanity can't even come in shouting distance of the speed of light, let alone surpass it.

Second, even if it is possible, are the mechanical or energy requirements to do so feasible? If getting a ship to go FTL requires the equivalent of, say, the power used to run a major city, that could keep it from happening.

Third, even at FTL speeds, the vast majority of the universe may be out of reach. As I believe I pointed out, the closest star to our solar system is over 4 light years away. If we came up with a method of travel that let us go two times as fast as light speed.....it would still take 2 years just to get to the nearest star. To really explore the galaxy, let alone the universe, we would need to achieve speeds far in excess of the speed of light. We're talking hundreds of times faster than light. The Milky Way galaxy is estimated to be about 100,000 light years across. Even traveling at 100 times the speed of light, it would take a millennia to get from one side to the other.

Unless another intelligent life form comes from close by, cosmically speaking, or that intelligent life form has devised a way to travel at many, many times the speed of light, the odds are good we would not encounter them.

Our Founders would have been equally skeptical had we told them that future generations would be able to transmit voices over thousands of miles so clearly that it would seem they were right with us, that we could visit with a loved one in Africa or Europe via skype, that we would witness events hundreds or thousands of miles away live on our living room television set.

Not only did the movie convince me that the technology was possible, but that now that we can envision it, we can and will achieve it. Perhaps not in this generation, but on down the line.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't think we are alone but I'm in no hurry to meet a technologically superior race that will wipe us out in order to take control of our planet

I think it highly likely we have already met so technologically superior race that has had us under surveillance for some time now. I am pretty sure if their intent was to wipe us out and take control of our planet they would have already done so.

I like to think such an advanced species has already made most of its mistakes and has learned how to live together cooperative and constructively, i.e. is past its predatory stage. They probably would be watching to be sure we also learn that before our technology becomes advanced enough to be a threat to others.

I agree we could be under study already but that is all they want from us. Like we would study a colony of ants just to learn about them, we wouldn't care if they wiped out a termite nest or were themselves wiped out.

Or again, as sentient beings capable of being interested in other species, there is no reason to believe they wouldn't have a capacity to care about those other species just as we do. But as our species still too often tends to be highly competitive, militant, and a danger to ourselves and others, their concern now could also be cautionary, just as we watch Iran or North Korea or others with track records of being a danger to others. I think if they are here, they intend us no harm. But if we are developing technology capable of harming them before we have evolved into a species capable of living together in harmony, mutual cooperation, and peace, it is not unreasonable that they would intervene.

 

[alang1216]

I don't think we are alone but I'm in no hurry to meet a technologically superior race that will wipe us out in order to take control of our planet

I think it highly likely we have already met so technologically superior race that has had us under surveillance for some time now. I am pretty sure if their intent was to wipe us out and take control of our planet they would have already done so.

I like to think such an advanced species has already made most of its mistakes and has learned how to live together cooperative and constructively, i.e. is past its predatory stage. They probably would be watching to be sure we also learn that before our technology becomes advanced enough to be a threat to others.

I agree we could be under study already but that is all they want from us. Like we would study a colony of ants just to learn about them, we wouldn't care if they wiped out a termite nest or were themselves wiped out.

Or again, as sentient beings capable of being interested in other species, there is no reason to believe they wouldn't have a capacity to care about those other species just as we do. But as our species still too often tends to be highly competitive, militant, and a danger to ourselves and others, their concern now could also be cautionary, just as we watch Iran or North Korea or others with track records of being a danger to others. I think if they are here, they intend us no harm. But if we are developing technology capable of harming them before we have evolved into a species capable of living together in harmony, mutual cooperation, and peace, it is not unreasonable that they would intervene.

It's hard to imagine we could develop technology to threaten a space-faring civilization. We probably much closer to the ancient Romans and they have nothing that could seriously threaten us. Even the Germans of WWII would be no match for us today.

IMHO, the aliens are here but choose not to reveal themselves as that would affect our development and screw up their study of us.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't think we are alone but I'm in no hurry to meet a technologically superior race that will wipe us out in order to take control of our planet

I think it highly likely we have already met so technologically superior race that has had us under surveillance for some time now. I am pretty sure if their intent was to wipe us out and take control of our planet they would have already done so.

I like to think such an advanced species has already made most of its mistakes and has learned how to live together cooperative and constructively, i.e. is past its predatory stage. They probably would be watching to be sure we also learn that before our technology becomes advanced enough to be a threat to others.

I agree we could be under study already but that is all they want from us. Like we would study a colony of ants just to learn about them, we wouldn't care if they wiped out a termite nest or were themselves wiped out.

Or again, as sentient beings capable of being interested in other species, there is no reason to believe they wouldn't have a capacity to care about those other species just as we do. But as our species still too often tends to be highly competitive, militant, and a danger to ourselves and others, their concern now could also be cautionary, just as we watch Iran or North Korea or others with track records of being a danger to others. I think if they are here, they intend us no harm. But if we are developing technology capable of harming them before we have evolved into a species capable of living together in harmony, mutual cooperation, and peace, it is not unreasonable that they would intervene.

It's hard to imagine we could develop technology to threaten a space-faring civilization. We probably much closer to the ancient Romans and they have nothing that could seriously threaten us. Even the Germans of WWII would be no match for us today.

IMHO, the aliens are here but choose not to reveal themselves as that would affect our development and screw up their study of us.

While I think you could be correct that the aliens choose not to interact with us so as not to interfere with our civilization at this time--unless one or more of the hundreds of people who claim to have been on board one of their space craft are telling the truth--but I fully expect humankind from Earth to some day be among the space faring peoples.

 

[alang1216]

I fully expect humankind from Earth to some day be among the space faring peoples.

I don't. Humans are not designed for space. We will give rise to synthetic beings that will be able to endure space.

 

[task0778]

FYI:

Science fiction writers and moviemakers have shown us countless visions of humanity spread out across the Universe, so you might be forgiven for thinking that we’ve already got this in the bag. Unfortunately, we still have more than a few technical limitations to overcome – like the laws of physics as we understand them – before we can start colonising new worlds beyond our Solar System and galaxy.

That said, several privately funded or volunteer initiatives such as the Tau Zero Foundation, Project Icarus and Breakthrough Starshot have emerged in recent years, each hoping to bring us a little bit closer to reaching across the cosmos. The discovery in August (2016) of an Earth-sized planet orbiting our nearest star has also raised fresh hopes about visiting an alien world.

Interstellar spacecraft will be one of the topics discussed at BBC Future’s World-Changing Ideas Summit in Sydney in November. Is travelling to other galaxies possible? And if so, what kinds of spacecraft might we need to achieve it? Read on to get up to (warp) speed:

WHERE WOULD WE GO?

Where wouldn’t we go? There are more stars in the Universe than there are grains of sand on Earth – around 70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 – and billions of these are estimated to have one to three planets in the so-called ‘Goldilocks’ zone: not too hot, not too cold.

Proxima b is in the right temperature range for liquid water, which is a useful proxy for habitability

As we’re just starting out, the best contender so far is our nearest stellar neighbour – the triple star system of Alpha Centauri, 4.37 light-years away. This year, astronomers at the European Southern Observatory discovered an Earth-sized planet orbiting Alpha Centauri’s red dwarf star Proxima Centauri. The planet, named Proxima b, is at least 1.3 times the mass of the Earth but has a very tight orbit around Proxima Centauri, taking just 11 Earth days to complete the trip. What has astronomers and exoplanet hunters especially hot under the collar is that this planet is in the right temperature range for liquid water, which is a useful proxy for habitability.

The downside is we don’t know if it has an atmosphere, and given its closeness to Proxima Centauri – closer than the orbit of Mercury around our Sun – it would likely be exposed to dangerous solar flares and radiation. It is also tidally-locked, which means the planet always presents the same face to its star; something that would completely alter our notions of night and day.

HOW WOULD WE GET THERE?

That’s the $64 trillion question. Even at the fastest speeds of our current technology, a quick jaunt to check out Proxima b would see us arriving in around 18,000 years, by which time there’s every chance our Earth-bound descendants would have arrived there well ahead of us and grabbed all the glory. But many smart minds – and deep pockets – are being turned to the challenge of finding a faster way to cross vast distances of space.

Breakthrough Starshot – a $100 million initiative privately funded by Russian billionaires Yuri and Julia Milner – is focusing on propelling a tiny unmanned probe by hitting its extremely lightweight sail with a powerful Earth-based laser. The idea is that if the spacecraft is small enough – and we’re talking barely a gram – and the sail light enough, the impact of the laser will be enough to gradually accelerate the craft to around one-fifth of the speed of light, taking it to Alpha Centauri in around 20 years.

The Milners are counting on miniaturisation technologies to enable this tiny craft to carry a camera, thrusters, a power supply, communication and navigation equipment so it can report on what it sees as it flashes past Proxima b. Hopefully the news will be good, because that will lay the foundation for the next and more difficult stage of interstellar travel: people-moving.

WHAT ABOUT WARP DRIVE?

Star Trek made it all look so easy, but everything we currently know about the laws of physics tells us that faster-than-light travel – or even travel at the speed of light – is not possible. Not that science is throwing in the towel. Inspired by another propulsion system that has captured the imagine of science fiction creators, Nasa’s Evolutionary Xenon Thruster project is developing an ion engine which is hoped to accelerate a spacecraft to speeds up to 90,000mph (145,000km/h) using only a fraction of the fuel of a conventional rocket.

But even at those speeds, we won’t be getting far out of the Solar System within a single generation of spacefarers. Until we work out how to warp time and space, interstellar travel is going to be a very slow boat to the future. It might even be better to think of that travel period as the end itself, rather than a means to an end.

The myths and reality about interstellar travel


ME: Doesn't sound like interstellar travel is going to happen for quite some time. For us anyway. But that's not to say another older race of beings out there somewhere that had a head start on us for a few million years give or take may have figured out a way to create and use worm holes or warp drives (queue the ST music). My personal opinion is that as a species we need to develop ourselves in social, non-technical aspects before we start moving off the planet in numbers. I.E., stop the wars, clean up the place, and ca the BS. We still got some growing up to do, and it could be that one or more advanced species from out there somewhere are keeping an eye on us. Let's hope they ain't Klingons.

 

[Foxfyre]

I fully expect humankind from Earth to some day be among the space faring peoples.

I don't. Humans are not designed for space. We will give rise to synthetic beings that will be able to endure space.

I think humans are designed for space as much as any other species. I have met a couple of guys who spent months on the Space Station and they said there are still some concerns re some bone loss, etc. in prolonged exposure zero or greatly reduced gravity--so far fully reversible upon return to Earth--but those issues will be resolved in time. We just haven't yet developed space craft that provides a 100% healthy environment for the space travelers on say a five-year Enterprise mission. The Enterprise however, did provide such an environment and I fully expect us to get there. The International Space Station is simply awesome, especially the control room:

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

just saying....

 

[Foxfyre]

FYI:

Science fiction writers and moviemakers have shown us countless visions of humanity spread out across the Universe, so you might be forgiven for thinking that we’ve already got this in the bag. Unfortunately, we still have more than a few technical limitations to overcome – like the laws of physics as we understand them – before we can start colonising new worlds beyond our Solar System and galaxy.

That said, several privately funded or volunteer initiatives such as the Tau Zero Foundation, Project Icarus and Breakthrough Starshot have emerged in recent years, each hoping to bring us a little bit closer to reaching across the cosmos. The discovery in August (2016) of an Earth-sized planet orbiting our nearest star has also raised fresh hopes about visiting an alien world.

Interstellar spacecraft will be one of the topics discussed at BBC Future’s World-Changing Ideas Summit in Sydney in November. Is travelling to other galaxies possible? And if so, what kinds of spacecraft might we need to achieve it? Read on to get up to (warp) speed:

WHERE WOULD WE GO?

Where wouldn’t we go? There are more stars in the Universe than there are grains of sand on Earth – around 70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 – and billions of these are estimated to have one to three planets in the so-called ‘Goldilocks’ zone: not too hot, not too cold.

Proxima b is in the right temperature range for liquid water, which is a useful proxy for habitability

As we’re just starting out, the best contender so far is our nearest stellar neighbour – the triple star system of Alpha Centauri, 4.37 light-years away. This year, astronomers at the European Southern Observatory discovered an Earth-sized planet orbiting Alpha Centauri’s red dwarf star Proxima Centauri. The planet, named Proxima b, is at least 1.3 times the mass of the Earth but has a very tight orbit around Proxima Centauri, taking just 11 Earth days to complete the trip. What has astronomers and exoplanet hunters especially hot under the collar is that this planet is in the right temperature range for liquid water, which is a useful proxy for habitability.

The downside is we don’t know if it has an atmosphere, and given its closeness to Proxima Centauri – closer than the orbit of Mercury around our Sun – it would likely be exposed to dangerous solar flares and radiation. It is also tidally-locked, which means the planet always presents the same face to its star; something that would completely alter our notions of night and day.

HOW WOULD WE GET THERE?

That’s the $64 trillion question. Even at the fastest speeds of our current technology, a quick jaunt to check out Proxima b would see us arriving in around 18,000 years, by which time there’s every chance our Earth-bound descendants would have arrived there well ahead of us and grabbed all the glory. But many smart minds – and deep pockets – are being turned to the challenge of finding a faster way to cross vast distances of space.

Breakthrough Starshot – a $100 million initiative privately funded by Russian billionaires Yuri and Julia Milner – is focusing on propelling a tiny unmanned probe by hitting its extremely lightweight sail with a powerful Earth-based laser. The idea is that if the spacecraft is small enough – and we’re talking barely a gram – and the sail light enough, the impact of the laser will be enough to gradually accelerate the craft to around one-fifth of the speed of light, taking it to Alpha Centauri in around 20 years.

The Milners are counting on miniaturisation technologies to enable this tiny craft to carry a camera, thrusters, a power supply, communication and navigation equipment so it can report on what it sees as it flashes past Proxima b. Hopefully the news will be good, because that will lay the foundation for the next and more difficult stage of interstellar travel: people-moving.

WHAT ABOUT WARP DRIVE?

Star Trek made it all look so easy, but everything we currently know about the laws of physics tells us that faster-than-light travel – or even travel at the speed of light – is not possible. Not that science is throwing in the towel. Inspired by another propulsion system that has captured the imagine of science fiction creators, Nasa’s Evolutionary Xenon Thruster project is developing an ion engine which is hoped to accelerate a spacecraft to speeds up to 90,000mph (145,000km/h) using only a fraction of the fuel of a conventional rocket.

But even at those speeds, we won’t be getting far out of the Solar System within a single generation of spacefarers. Until we work out how to warp time and space, interstellar travel is going to be a very slow boat to the future. It might even be better to think of that travel period as the end itself, rather than a means to an end.

The myths and reality about interstellar travel


ME: Doesn't sound like interstellar travel is going to happen for quite some time. For us anyway. But that's not to say another older race of beings out there somewhere that had a head start on us for a few million years give or take may have figured out a way to create and use worm holes or warp drives (queue the ST music). My personal opinion is that as a species we need to develop ourselves in social, non-technical aspects before we start moving off the planet in numbers. I.E., stop the wars, clean up the place, and ca the BS. We still got some growing up to do, and it could be that one or more advanced species from out there somewhere are keeping an eye on us. Let's hope they ain't Klingons.

Re the possibility of warp speeds in space travel, please see my Post #282. Not only has science determined that warp speed and multiple warp speed is possible, but they know how it would work. We just haven't developed the technology to achieve it yet. But now that we know it is possible and how it can be done, you can be sure there are visionary technicians and scientists figuring that out. Will no doubt take some time as do all major technological breakthroughs, but I do not have a doubt in the world that it is possible and I also have strong confidence that we will most likely do it.

 

[Montrovant]

I fully expect humankind from Earth to some day be among the space faring peoples.

I don't. Humans are not designed for space. We will give rise to synthetic beings that will be able to endure space.

I think humans are designed for space as much as any other species. I have met a couple of guys who spent months on the Space Station and they said there are still some concerns re some bone loss, etc. in prolonged exposure zero or greatly reduced gravity--so far fully reversible upon return to Earth--but those issues will be resolved in time. We just haven't yet developed space craft that provides a 100% healthy environment for the space travelers on say a five-year Enterprise mission. The Enterprise however, did provide such an environment and I fully expect us to get there. The International Space Station is simply awesome, especially the control room:

Creating a ship with some sort of artificial gravity may be necessary for long-term space travel.