Are We, the USA, in FACT at War With ISIS?

Are we in FACT at War with ISIS?

  • Yes, they declared war on us, just like the Nazi Germans did

    Votes: 12 85.7%
  • No, we are only at war with those Congress declares war on

    Votes: 1 7.1%
  • I dont know, whats on the TV?

    Votes: 1 7.1%

  • Total voters
    14
I think we are as they have declared war on us, the USA, so no matter if Congress gets off its ass and declares war or not, methinks we are in a state of war.

Thoughts?

Yes and no.

Yes- in reality we are at war.

No- we are not legally at war since we have not actually declared war on ISIS.

And finally- there is no real will for the United States to go balls to the wall to fight ISIS in the Middle East because Americans are rather tired of more Middle Eastern wars that should be taken care of by the peoples and countries most threatened by them.

Dear Syriusly Thanks for a very good answer!
I'd say yes and no to who is being threatened.
Yes, legally you can argue that these threats are criminal militant acts of terrorism war or genocide against others and not a formal declaration or attack by an organized nation against us or US as a nation yet since
that "isn't fully proven." Bush's justification for Iraq was contested because it was not proven to
all people's standards of law.

But since Islamic and other countries under attack don't have the
same Christian and Constitutional authority that the US has (or used to have
before this was undermined by division and attack from left secularists vying for political power)
then people and countries do flock or turn to either the US
or now the Soviets where Putin as a man of God is willing to stand up and take action to intervene,
even defending national interests at the expense of others as the US had been criticized for doing.

Obama seems more bent on addressing this religiously and politically
from an inclusive peacemaking approach not to burn bridges but to involve not alienate the Muslims.
But the Muslims largely rely on alliance with stronger leadership from American or Soviet troops
with the authority to help intervene with unified military force to stop the terrorism and genocide.

I understand if Obama and others want other countries to step up with policing and not rely on
US to do everything. But given the threats of selfish national interests that Putin will impose, in addition to crimes against humanity committed by ISIS forces,
it is still a risk not to do more to ensure US and human interests are equally defended and protected on the world stage. Regardless if this is seen as spiritual warfare against all humanity, or as political only affecting direct neighbors as their responsibility first.

A genocide anywhere is a concern for all nations everywhere.
It may not officially be affecting us "as directly" but the threat is to all nations and humanity
so on a spiritual level, the responsibility is shared, and the political reality and responsibility
shifts to the people with the most ability and access to do more, where the US is still looked to for this.

Technically, no we don't have to help anymore than a person in a crowd is required
to jump in and do CPR if someone collapses across the street. but if there are trained nurses or emergency responders
around, and nobody else is reviving a person effectively who is suffering a massive attack, it is morally natural for the
more competent people to step in and help, even if it is not our legal requirement, we have not
formally agreed to this, and it poses risks if we do. We can choose to respond or assume
someone on the other side of the street can handle this without us jumping in to make sure it is done right.

In the case of terrorism, the risk of spreading and causing attacks in the US has already been established
as a threat and pattern of attacks, even if the assailants are mentally or criminally ill recruits and not officially recognized as military combatants of an attacking country. So at what point do we intervene to stop the spread of threats and attacks.

Do we count Orlando as a Pearl Harbor or is it not officially an attack by ISIS operations direct but a random attack mimicking the attacks overseas directly affecting neighbor countries.
 
[
The Salafi members of Islam are in effect at war with Western civilization, but then again so is the Democratic Party, so why single out the Salafis?.

Occasionally you sound rational.

And then you go full retard.

View attachment 78421

Lol, but the Salafis ARE at war with us and ISIS, AQ, etc are just their fighting organizations.

Nothing retarded about that.

Dear JimBowie1958
How about this analogy:
if Chinese communist militant forces take over Vietnam and this is not recognized
as official Vietnam govt but hostile terrorist forces like a hijacking,
then if those "independent" communist leaders declare war on other countries and attack
who is at war?

It's not China because even if Chinese militants do this, China hasn't officially declared war
so the declarations aren't officially coming from them. What if some Chinese applaud and some denounce this, and
they are divided as America is, half claiming it and half distancing themselves, and there is no official stance.
It's not Vietnam because again half of the nation is saying no, our leadership
and representation is being held hostage and this isn't coming from us. Please don't attack us.

The terrorists play this shell game.
And now that ISIS and ISIL are establishing and/or trying to be recognized as establishing a formal national identity,
this is blurring the lines between a dangerous genocidal religious cult that has hijacked certain countries govts,
and the official govts. So some people want to "downplay" these fighters as a faction
and not recognize terrorist fights as official govt, since they didn't democratically rise to power
and don't have official army militants. If anyone is fighting or can claim to fight as a combatant,
that is being argued as "not officially a member" unless there is "agreed" proof and people don't agree.

This is being exploited to divide nations and people against themselves using fear and force.
Dividing Muslims and dividing Americans so we are less able to respond with united authority.

We have worse than Vietnam on our hands, and it is just as cruel to sit back and
let genocides and rapes wage on while we debate: to be or not to be, to act or not to act?
But if we are fighting "civil wars of ideology on our own turf" we are like the divided Vietnam that can't get our people united so that a foreign ideology takes over our govt to keep us divided and defenseless.
 
[
The Salafi members of Islam are in effect at war with Western civilization, but then again so is the Democratic Party, so why single out the Salafis?.

Occasionally you sound rational.

And then you go full retard.

View attachment 78421

Lol, but the Salafis ARE at war with us and ISIS, AQ, etc are just their fighting organizations.

Nothing retarded about that.

Well yes there is.

Since Al Qaeda and ISIS are rival organizations.

But as long as you don't go full retard, that is just a minor correction.
 
No, they are war with us, but we are not at war with them

Imagine if the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor and our response was "now, we're not at war with the Japanese people, so let's ban bombs and let 100K Japanese immigrants into the US, that will make them love us and not want to kill us"

We have became the dumbest nation on Earth.
I don't think "dumb" is the problem. Something extremely insidious is going on at such high levels it is beyond our ability to comprehend without knowledge of the details.
 
Yes and no.

Yes- in reality we are at war.

No- we are not legally at war since we have not actually declared war on ISIS.

When Nazi German y declared war on us, we were also at war with them instantly.

Do we think we are so superior to ISIS that we can treat their declaration of war with such disdain?

We aren't of course. We are killing ISIS members.

The question is whether he go all in back into the mess in Iraq and more into the mess in Syria.

If you know the history of ISIS, you know that the history of ISIS is intertwined with the history of the U.S. involvement in the ME and Afghanistan. Our full out interventions there can damp down crap for a little while- but since the real problem is Muslim versus Muslim- we are stepping into their mess.

Which is really what ISIS wants us to do.

Part of the ISIS philosophy is a nihilistic apocalypse that they create between the West and Islam. And their attacks on the West are primarily for raising recruits in the West for their fights in the ME.

I love the idea of just going in an defeating ISIS- they are killing thousands of innocent women and children, destroying civilizations. But history shows us that we end up creating future enemies in the ME doing just that.
 
No, they are war with us, but we are not at war with them

Imagine if the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor and our response was "now, we're not at war with the Japanese people, so let's ban bombs and let 100K Japanese immigrants into the US, that will make them love us and not want to kill us"

We have became the dumbest nation on Earth.
I don't think "dumb" is the problem. Something extremely insidious is going on at such high levels it is beyond our ability to comprehend without knowledge of the details.
I think we know enough about what's going on to recognize we can't change it by "choosing" between Trump or Clinton next November?
 
[
The Salafi members of Islam are in effect at war with Western civilization, but then again so is the Democratic Party, so why single out the Salafis?.

Occasionally you sound rational.

And then you go full retard.

View attachment 78421

Lol, but the Salafis ARE at war with us and ISIS, AQ, etc are just their fighting organizations.

Nothing retarded about that.

Dear JimBowie1958
How about this analogy:
if Chinese communist militant forces take over Vietnam and this is not recognized
as official Vietnam govt but hostile terrorist forces like a hijacking,
then if those "independent" communist leaders declare war on other countries and attack
who is at war?

It's not China because even if Chinese militants do this, China hasn't officially declared war
so the declarations aren't officially coming from them. What if some Chinese applaud and some denounce this, and
they are divided as America is, half claiming it and half distancing themselves, and there is no official stance.
It's not Vietnam because again half of the nation is saying no, our leadership
and representation is being held hostage and this isn't coming from us. Please don't attack us.

The terrorists play this shell game.
And now that ISIS and ISIL are establishing and/or trying to be recognized as establishing a formal national identity,
this is blurring the lines between a dangerous genocidal religious cult that has hijacked certain countries govts,
and the official govts. So some people want to "downplay" these fighters as a faction
and not recognize terrorist fights as official govt, since they didn't democratically rise to power
and don't have official army militants. If anyone is fighting or can claim to fight as a combatant,
that is being argued as "not officially a member" unless there is "agreed" proof and people don't agree.

This is being exploited to divide nations and people against themselves using fear and force.
Dividing Muslims and dividing Americans so we are less able to respond with united authority.

We have worse than Vietnam on our hands, and it is just as cruel to sit back and
let genocides and rapes wage on while we debate: to be or not to be, to act or not to act?
But if we are fighting "civil wars of ideology on our own turf" we are like the divided Vietnam that can't get our people united so that a foreign ideology takes over our govt to keep us divided and defenseless.

Nations have fought proxy wars for centuries and it is the proxy nations that are at war with each nation that they declare war on and attack.
 
I think we are as they have declared war on us, the USA, so no matter if Congress gets off its ass and declares war or not, methinks we are in a state of war.

Thoughts?

We should level whatever crap hole town that is the HQ for the Caliphate. Turn it to glass

-Geaux
 
If we aren't at war, I am not sure what you would call it. And it started long before Obama. Long before 9/11. But 9/11 was a real defining moment.

President George Bush understood that the Radical Islamists had declared war on the United States. He knew we have to wage a war to conquer the enemy.

Lame Duck President Barack Hussein Obama that it was not a war and pulled all our troops out of Iraq giving ISIS a massive area to grow, recruit from, train and spread their poison. Now ISIS has a huge foothold and now, as Conservatives and Republicans said, we have troops BACK in Iraq and we are now fighting them on our shores.
 
No doubt ISIS is at war with the United States, they have come out and stated numerous times,
However our government leaders are too stupid to take ISIS word for it, Fortunately, the American are waking up to this fact. but it seems the liberals are on the side of ISIS. Why else would the allow free reign for muslim immigrants while at the same time they are trying to disarm the American populace.
 
President George Bush understood that the Radical Islamists had declared war on the United States. He knew we have to wage a war to conquer the enemy.
President George W. Bush understood absolutely nothing other than what he was directed to do by Cheney, which was to embark on the unnecessary invasion of the non-aggressive nation of Iraq, which the stupid elitist sonofabitch did without hesitation and with relentless determination. So the bottom line is whatever problems we are having now are the result of his criminal action.

Lame Duck President Barack Hussein Obama that it was not a war and pulled all our troops out of Iraq giving ISIS a massive area to grow, recruit from, train and spread their poison. Now ISIS has a huge foothold and now, as Conservatives and Republicans said, we have troops BACK in Iraq and we are now fighting them on our shores.
That part is also true. But Bush is the primary villain in this drama.
 
If we aren't at war, I am not sure what you would call it. And it started long before Obama. Long before 9/11. But 9/11 was a real defining moment.

President George Bush understood that the Radical Islamists had declared war on the United States. He knew we have to wage a war to conquer the enemy.

Really?

If that was true- why did he want the United States to attack Iraq?

Quick recap of history:
Al Qaeda- radical islamists who wanted to attack the West operated out of Afghanistan- ruled by the Taliban- radical Islamist who came into power after the United States supported them during the Russian Afghani War. The Taliban were at that time brutal radical Islamist thugs who led a nightmare regime in Aghanistan but made no moves against the United States. We attacked Afghanistan after the Taliban refused to give up Al Qaeda- this was a justifiable operation to pursue our enemies. (the future leader of ISIS got his first battle experience in Afghanistan)

However- before we finished pacifying Afghanistan- and ridding it of the radical Islamist, Bush pushed the United States to go war with Iraq- ruled by Sadam Hussein- a despicable dictator who ALSO was a violent opponent to Radical Islamists. Our defeat of Sadam Hussein's regime opened the door to various radical Islamist factions, and allowed Iran to become the most powerful regional power. Oh and ISIS started its first operations in Iraq after the fall of Sadam Hussein.

If Bush 'understood' what the Radical Islamists had done- why the hell did he open the door to them in Iraq? Why did he pull our special forces out of Afghanistan to go into Iraq?

I don't blame Bush for everything that went wrong- but the claim that Bush understood "Radical Islamists" and went to war with them is just asinine.
 
President George Bush understood that the Radical Islamists had declared war on the United States. He knew we have to wage a war to conquer the enemy.
President George W. Bush understood absolutely nothing other than what he was directed to do by Cheney,
That is bullshit.
I know you don't wish to believe it because it tampers with the extreme right-wing conservative mindset you've acquired over the years. But there are some things you should consider, beginning with the question of why Bush-1 chose to betray a useful ally, Saddam Hussein, by defending Kuwait, which is an extension of Saudi Arabia. If instead of conducting Operation Desert Storm and destroying Hussin's army, Bush had backed Hussein, who had legitimate cause to attack Kuwait, and supported his next predictable step, which would have been an invasion of Saudi Arabia, we would be in the cat-bird seat today, prevailing over a quiet Middle-East and paying fifty cents a gallon for gas.

The rest involves more detail than is appropriate for this format, but if you are interested in learning the truth you can start by reading these two very informative and well-documented articles:

How US covered up Saudi role in 9/11 | New York Post

New questions about FBI probe of Saudis' post-9/11 exodus

When your research brings you to the place where Bush-2 decides against an endless stream of expert advice to invade and occupy Iraq and reduce that civilized nation to rubble, instead of dismissing the undesirable intrusion of factual logic, why not spend some time giving some thought to why the World Court would like to get its hands on George W. Bush.

images


images


The value of the gold chain around Bush's neck (in the lower photo) is estimated at approximately $500,000 -- and it was just a "happy hello" gift. Imagine the value of the "thanks for everything" gift(s).

The gift that you and I are getting for it all is beginning to occur in the form of hundreds of thousands of displaced, military-age, pissed off Muslim migrants who hate our guts for what the Bush family has visited on them.
 
Last edited:
President George Bush understood that the Radical Islamists had declared war on the United States. He knew we have to wage a war to conquer the enemy.
President George W. Bush understood absolutely nothing other than what he was directed to do by Cheney,
That is bullshit.
I know you don't wish to believe it because it tampers with the extreme right-wing conservative mindset you've acquired over the years. But there are some things you should consider, beginning with the question of why Bush-1 chose to betray a useful ally, Saddam Hussein, by defending Kuwait, which is an extension of Saudi Arabia. If instead of conducting Operation Desert Storm and destroying Hussin's army, Bush had backed Hussein, who had legitimate cause to attack Kuwait, and supported his next predictable step, which would have been an invasion of Saudi Arabia, we would be in the cat-bird seat today, prevailing over a quiet Middle-East and paying fifty cents a gallon for gas.

The rest involves more detail than is appropriate for this format, but if you are interested in learning the truth you can start by reading these two very informative and well-documented articles:

How US covered up Saudi role in 9/11 | New York Post

New questions about FBI probe of Saudis' post-9/11 exodus

When your research brings you to the place where Bush-2 decides against an endless stream of expert advice to invade and occupy Iraq and reduce that civilized nation to rubble, instead of dismissing the undesirable intrusion of factual logic, why not spend some time giving some thought to why the World Court would like to get its hands on George W. Bush.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0426/csmimg/04-26_DU.jpg

The value of the gold chain around Bush's neck is estimated at approximately $500,000 -- and it was just a "happy hello" gift. Imagine the value of the "thanks for everything" gift(s).

The gift that you and I are getting for it all is beginning to occur in the form of hundreds of thousands of displaced, military-age, pissed off Muslims who hate our guts for what the Bush family has visited on them.

The same Bush family that will not endorse Trump. Just a thought.
 
Daesh (the term for it that so-called ISIS dislikes the most) is not a state, as they would like to claim. We can be at war with a state because that would have definite objectives and be winnable. That is not the case here. We must not flatter these nincompoops.
 

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