Are you one of the 53%

[Care4all]

But ... but ... but,there are some of us can't afford to pay any taxes after they pay their own part of FICA (SS and Medicare). Do we want to take money away from them?

I say yes.

okay...can you tell us why you think this way and what it will do to help our economy...

you can't get blood out of turnips in my opinion, but I'd really like to know why in the world would you want to take more money away from the poorest among us just to give it back to them in medicaid or food stamps?

I can understand all of the thousands of millionaires and thousands of families making more than 50k a year that paid absolutely zero in federal income taxes to be taxed and to owe federal income taxes.....and maybe I can even see some of the child tax credits reduced back to the level they were under Clinton....so to capture a few more tax payers.....

But in no way, shape or form, do I believe the working poorest should be taxed more....

This thread disheartens me....the covetousness and jealousy and hatred towards the poorest citizens, POOREST WORKING CITIZENS in our land is very surprising to me....it downright hurts and brings tears....What in the World has happened to us as human beings to be so evil? and yes, I see it as the encompass of evil....

These aren't people sitting on their bums, these are people with families, trying to make it in this country....and by make it I mean, making ends meet....there is no savings, their checking never has the thousand dollars in it to avoid fees....they haven't gotten pay raises that keeps up with the higher prices of food and gasoline and clothes and toys for their kids....

yet you all treat them and talk about them like they are scum of the earth...

Well let me tell you something....they are human beings, that are working yet still struggling and no way in this world do I think they should be taxed more...and it is bull crap that they are not paying taxes now.....bull crap bull crap and bull crap....they pay federal gasoline taxes for all of the roads, they pay cigarette taxes that pays fopr children's health care, they pay the corporate federal income taxes every time they purchase something because IT IS incorporated in to the price of goods, they pay social security taxes and they pay medicare taxes and their surplus social security taxes HAVE BEEN USED to pay for things that INCOME TAXES should have been paying for, to the tune of 2.5 trillion DOLLARS.....and on top of that they pay for their own police and firemen through their state sale taxes, state income taxes, state property taxes....

and you all are so worried about them not paying anything in federal income taxes?

Gawd almighty....................what brings this on....??? sheesh

I've had it....you all are very weird.

and American Horse, this was not meant to be directed at you....my rant was for all of you.............

 

[LoneLaugher]

But ... but ... but,there are some of us can't afford to pay any taxes after they pay their own part of FICA (SS and Medicare). Do we want to take money away from them?

I say yes.

okay...can you tell us why you think this way and what it will do to help our economy...

you can't get blood out of turnips in my opinion, but I'd really like to know why in the world would you want to take more money away from the poorest among us just to give it back to them in medicaid or food stamps?

I can understand all of the thousands of millionaires and thousands of families making more than 50k a year that paid absolutely zero in federal income taxes to be taxed and to owe federal income taxes.....and maybe I can even see some of the child tax credits reduced back to the level they were under Clinton....so to capture a few more tax payers.....

But in no way, shape or form, do I believe the working poorest should be taxed....

This thread disheartens me....the covetousness and jealousy and hatred towards the poorest citizens, POOREST WORKING CITIZENS in our land is very surprising to me....it downright hurts and brings tears....What in the World has happened to us as human beings to be so evil? and yes, I see it as the encompass of evil....

These aren't people sitting on their bums, these are people with families, trying to make it in this country....and by make it I mean, making ends meet....there is no savings, their checking never has the thousand dollars in it to avoid fees....they haven't gotten pay raises that keeps up with the higher prices of food and gasoline and clothes and toys for their kids....

yet you all treat them and talk about them like they are scum of the earth...

Well let me tell you something....they are human beings, that are working yet still struggling and no way in this world do I think they should be taxed more...and it is bull crap that they are not paying taxes now.....bull crap bull crap and bull crap....they pay federal gasoline taxes for all of the roads, they pay cigarette taxes that pays fopr children's health care, they pay the corporate federal income taxes every time they purchase something because IT IS incorporated in to the price of goods, they pay social security taxes and they pay medicare taxes and their surplus social security taxes HAVE BEEN USED to pay for things that INCOME TAXES should have been paying for, to the tune of 2.5 trillion DOLLARS.....and on top of that they pay for their own police and firemen through their state sale taxes, state income taxes, state property taxes....

and you all are so worried about them not paying anything in federal income taxes?

Gawd almighty....................what brings this on....??? sheesh

I've had it....you all are very weird.

and American Horse, this was not meant to be directed at you....my rant was for all of you.............

Saddest part............many of these folks are so wrapped up in divisive social politics/fear/bigotry.......that they will vote FOR candidates who work AGAINST their best economic interests. All it takes is a simple ( see Cain ) explaination.....accuracy not required.

 

[Ravi]

Yep...and as a single mom who gets zero child support.

Same here, only I'm a single dad.

Do you get earned income tax credits?

 

[Care4all]

But ... but ... but,there are some of us can't afford to pay any taxes after they pay their own part of FICA (SS and Medicare). Do we want to take money away from them?

I say yes.

okay...can you tell us why you think this way and what it will do to help our economy...

you can't get blood out of turnips in my opinion, but I'd really like to know why in the world would you want to take more money away from the poorest among us just to give it back to them in medicaid or food stamps?

I can understand all of the thousands of millionaires and thousands of families making more than 50k a year that paid absolutely zero in federal income taxes to be taxed and to owe federal income taxes.....and maybe I can even see some of the child tax credits reduced back to the level they were under Clinton....so to capture a few more tax payers.....

But in no way, shape or form, do I believe the working poorest should be taxed....

This thread disheartens me....the covetousness and jealousy and hatred towards the poorest citizens, POOREST WORKING CITIZENS in our land is very surprising to me....it downright hurts and brings tears....What in the World has happened to us as human beings to be so evil? and yes, I see it as the encompass of evil....

These aren't people sitting on their bums, these are people with families, trying to make it in this country....and by make it I mean, making ends meet....there is no savings, their checking never has the thousand dollars in it to avoid fees....they haven't gotten pay raises that keeps up with the higher prices of food and gasoline and clothes and toys for their kids....

yet you all treat them and talk about them like they are scum of the earth...

Well let me tell you something....they are human beings, that are working yet still struggling and no way in this world do I think they should be taxed more...and it is bull crap that they are not paying taxes now.....bull crap bull crap and bull crap....they pay federal gasoline taxes for all of the roads, they pay cigarette taxes that pays fopr children's health care, they pay the corporate federal income taxes every time they purchase something because IT IS incorporated in to the price of goods, they pay social security taxes and they pay medicare taxes and their surplus social security taxes HAVE BEEN USED to pay for things that INCOME TAXES should have been paying for, to the tune of 2.5 trillion DOLLARS.....and on top of that they pay for their own police and firemen through their state sale taxes, state income taxes, state property taxes....

and you all are so worried about them not paying anything in federal income taxes?

Gawd almighty....................what brings this on....??? sheesh

I've had it....you all are very weird.

and American Horse, this was not meant to be directed at you....my rant was for all of you.............

Saddest part............many of these folks are so wrapped up in divisive social politics/fear/bigotry.......that they will vote FOR candidates who work AGAINST their best economic interests. All it takes is a simple ( see Cain ) explanation.....accuracy not required.

But we all support candidates that end up hurting our own best interest on one thing or another....on both sides of the aisle.

Politics is scummy from top to bottom.

We all vote for the best candidate...don't you know that? they think they do, and we think we do..... and we let the politicians and their rebel rousers dictate to us what the disagreement of the hour should be....

I've been on this board too long to see it any differently...

Care

 

[Ravi]

I'm in the 53%. I've paid federal (and state, ect.) taxes since I was 16 yrs old, and are still paying them on my retirement check. Single mom, one adopted child, no child support, and I made it by working 5 days a week, and sometimes more. Never wanted any help, and didn't ask for it. Was the way I was brought up, I am the only one responsible for myself.

Did you get the earned income tax credit?

 

[LoneLaugher]

okay...can you tell us why you think this way and what it will do to help our economy...

you can't get blood out of turnips in my opinion, but I'd really like to know why in the world would you want to take more money away from the poorest among us just to give it back to them in medicaid or food stamps?

I can understand all of the thousands of millionaires and thousands of families making more than 50k a year that paid absolutely zero in federal income taxes to be taxed and to owe federal income taxes.....and maybe I can even see some of the child tax credits reduced back to the level they were under Clinton....so to capture a few more tax payers.....

But in no way, shape or form, do I believe the working poorest should be taxed....

This thread disheartens me....the covetousness and jealousy and hatred towards the poorest citizens, POOREST WORKING CITIZENS in our land is very surprising to me....it downright hurts and brings tears....What in the World has happened to us as human beings to be so evil? and yes, I see it as the encompass of evil....

These aren't people sitting on their bums, these are people with families, trying to make it in this country....and by make it I mean, making ends meet....there is no savings, their checking never has the thousand dollars in it to avoid fees....they haven't gotten pay raises that keeps up with the higher prices of food and gasoline and clothes and toys for their kids....

yet you all treat them and talk about them like they are scum of the earth...

Well let me tell you something....they are human beings, that are working yet still struggling and no way in this world do I think they should be taxed more...and it is bull crap that they are not paying taxes now.....bull crap bull crap and bull crap....they pay federal gasoline taxes for all of the roads, they pay cigarette taxes that pays fopr children's health care, they pay the corporate federal income taxes every time they purchase something because IT IS incorporated in to the price of goods, they pay social security taxes and they pay medicare taxes and their surplus social security taxes HAVE BEEN USED to pay for things that INCOME TAXES should have been paying for, to the tune of 2.5 trillion DOLLARS.....and on top of that they pay for their own police and firemen through their state sale taxes, state income taxes, state property taxes....

and you all are so worried about them not paying anything in federal income taxes?

Gawd almighty....................what brings this on....??? sheesh

I've had it....you all are very weird.

and American Horse, this was not meant to be directed at you....my rant was for all of you.............

Saddest part............many of these folks are so wrapped up in divisive social politics/fear/bigotry.......that they will vote FOR candidates who work AGAINST their best economic interests. All it takes is a simple ( see Cain ) explanation.....accuracy not required.

But we all support candidates that end up hurting our own best interest on one thing or another....on both sides of the aisle.

Politics is scummy from top to bottom.

We all vote for the best candidate...don't you know that? they think they do, and we think we do..... and we let the politicians and their rebel rousers dictate to us what the disagreement of the hour should be....

I've been on this board too long to see it any differently...

Care

Nope. Thinking people vote in their own best economic interests FOR REAL....and are not fooled into voting against them. A minority......yes.

The folks we vote for are not able to do exactly as they would like........but that does not alter the fact that they would if they could. And if Obama could enact every policy that he would like to enact......my economic interests would be served.

 

[Ravi]

CHART OF THE DAY: These Are The 47 Percent | TPMDC

 

[editec]

yes, I believe you....do you think they have ritually under reported it because they did not want to pay out to all the gvt workers, military and social security recipients the true COL? I can't see why they would under report it, unless it was for some monetary reason that would benefit them?

It's done to devalue the debt.

Too many of us think that DC is stupid and is digging themselves into a hole they can't get out of, in reality they have a plan to deal with it, and that plan is NOT good for most of us. You're in better shape than most, you own your home. Hard to devalue real property, almost impossible.

not really....we bought the home in 2006, unknown to us, at the real estate peak.....we paid cash for it, but since then, the housing market crash and value of the home has dropped 20-30%....it really stinks to high heaven! it's okay, as long as we keep it, but we had it planned as a stepping stone to a property on the water....we feel sick about the...in hind-site, poor investment of our hard earned cash...

I can see why you're kicking your ass, but you ought not blame yourself.

Nobody, not even me -- who has been screaming that RE inflation was unsustainable for nearly 30 years! -- could imagine just how badly the RE bubble was going to immediately effect the overall economy.

I thought we'd see a correction of 20% or so and after that a long period where RE didn't rise much until the median prices would eventually be in line with median incomes.

Shiller saw what was coming but no nationally recognized economist other than him that I know of did, either.

What we're facing is a black swan event, I think.

A BSE is very unlikely economic event, but one that occassionally does happen, when all the unlikely (and unknown) economic ducks get set up in a row.

Personally, I bought in '91, after a small RE correction, and was congratulating myself about my sage purchase until about 2008.

I'm still above water, but I think my house has lost about 33% of its highwater mark (2007 or so) in terms of market value.

And I still have a mortgage, and I am still paying it, and the price of RE has, in my opinion, ANOTHER 30% decline from TODAY's pricing to go.

If you're financies are NOT GOING DOWN right now?

You're better off than about 60% of your neighbors.

 

[American Horse]

But ... but ... but,there are some of us can't afford to pay any taxes after they pay their own part of FICA (SS and Medicare). Do we want to take money away from them?

I say yes.

okay...can you tell us why you think this way and what it will do to help our economy...

you can't get blood out of turnips in my opinion, but I'd really like to know why in the world would you want to take more money away from the poorest among us just to give it back to them in medicaid or food stamps?

I can understand all of the thousands of millionaires and thousands of families making more than 50k a year that paid absolutely zero in federal income taxes to be taxed and to owe federal income taxes.....and maybe I can even see some of the child tax credits reduced back to the level they were under Clinton....so to capture a few more tax payers.....

But in no way, shape or form, do I believe the working poorest should be taxed more....

This thread disheartens me....the covetousness and jealousy and hatred towards the poorest citizens, POOREST WORKING CITIZENS in our land is very surprising to me....it downright hurts and brings tears....What in the World has happened to us as human beings to be so evil? and yes, I see it as the encompass of evil....

These aren't people sitting on their bums, these are people with families, trying to make it in this country....and by make it I mean, making ends meet....there is no savings, their checking never has the thousand dollars in it to avoid fees....they haven't gotten pay raises that keeps up with the higher prices of food and gasoline and clothes and toys for their kids....

yet you all treat them and talk about them like they are scum of the earth...

Well let me tell you something....they are human beings, that are working yet still struggling and no way in this world do I think they should be taxed more...and it is bull crap that they are not paying taxes now.....bull crap bull crap and bull crap....they pay federal gasoline taxes for all of the roads, they pay cigarette taxes that pays fopr children's health care, they pay the corporate federal income taxes every time they purchase something because IT IS incorporated in to the price of goods, they pay social security taxes and they pay medicare taxes and their surplus social security taxes HAVE BEEN USED to pay for things that INCOME TAXES should have been paying for, to the tune of 2.5 trillion DOLLARS.....and on top of that they pay for their own police and firemen through their state sale taxes, state income taxes, state property taxes....

and you all are so worried about them not paying anything in federal income taxes?

Gawd almighty....................what brings this on....??? sheesh

I've had it....you all are very weird.

and American Horse, this was not meant to be directed at you....my rant was for all of you.............

Why? Because everyone of us needs to participate in paying for the federal government we elect, even if it is only $100 per year. Those who do not participate in providing for it from their earnings will see no problem with higher taxes for others. If they understand that their part is 1% of their earnings say on $10,000, and it is, though small, a burden, then they will have better proportionatate perspective on the burdens the cost of government is to others who pay much more intrinsically and proportionately.

I know they pay their local taxes, but very large part of those local taxes may be paid indirectly through rents; they may not own an automobile and pay no gasoline excise taxes, and on and on. They only pay one half of their FICA, so they don't feel the same crunch from that that a self employed person feels.

 

[J.E.D]

So the fuck what?

Moron.

For somebody who supposedly doesn't care, you sure are crying a lot.

 

[Moonglow]

I bought 43 acres in '99, at $550.00 an acre, today it is going for $2000,00 an acre. Land will always go up, just give it time.

 

[Full-Auto]

Well got paid today and i see i got federal taken out. So as one of these 53% i do not want to see my taxes raised if we go with the cain plan. I do not want to see my taxes raised if we went to a flat tax.i dont want to see my taxes raised and do not like this attempt by the right to attack my.earnings.

We got the message.....

Fuck everyone else its me me me.

 

[Uncensored2008]

not really....we bought the home in 2006, unknown to us, at the real estate peak.....we paid cash for it, but since then, the housing market crash and value of the home has dropped 20-30%....it really stinks to high heaven! it's okay, as long as we keep it, but we had it planned as a stepping stone to a property on the water....we feel sick about the...in hind-site, poor investment of our hard earned cash...

2006 is a rough time to have bought, sorry to hear this.

At least it's not encumbered.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Well got paid today and i see i got federal taken out. So as one of these 53% i do not want to see my taxes raised if we go with the cain plan. I do not want to see my taxes raised if we went to a flat tax.i dont want to see my taxes raised and do not like this attempt by the right to attack my.earnings.

It's always taken out.

The question is; do you get back as much or more than you put in at the end of the year?

47% of working Americans do.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Well got paid today and i see i got federal taken out. So as one of these 53% i do not want to see my taxes raised if we go with the cain plan. I do not want to see my taxes raised if we went to a flat tax.i dont want to see my taxes raised and do not like this attempt by the right to attack my.earnings.

It's always taken out.

The question is; do you get back as much or more than you put in at the end of the year?

47% of working Americans do.

And . . .?

 

[Care4all]

Well got paid today and i see i got federal taken out. So as one of these 53% i do not want to see my taxes raised if we go with the cain plan. I do not want to see my taxes raised if we went to a flat tax.i dont want to see my taxes raised and do not like this attempt by the right to attack my.earnings.

It's always taken out.

The question is; do you get back as much or more than you put in at the end of the year?

47% of working Americans do.

9% of the people in that group get back more than they paid in, 38% just didn't owe any federal taxes after they took their standard deductions and personal exemptions etc....

and that 9% is the poorest of the working poor, who have children and received the EIC, and child tax credits....

the EIC was created and promoted by various presidents over the years to encourage people receiving welfare, to work.

If the EIC was not given to these lowest paid workers, then it would benefit them more to be on Welfare, which pays MORE than them working.

I'd rather give them a couple of thousand in an earned income credit, than pay the whole mother load to take care of them....and them working teaches their children self respect and good values compared to those collecting a welfare check.

I think we need to get our priorities straight, and the EIC is one of the smartest things our gvt ever thought of.... it might have even been reagan that thought of it...and kudos to him, as far as I am concerned.

I don't believe we need to punish them for being poor by making them pay federal income taxes in order for them to have a stake in the game....they have a stake in the game and they will look out for their best interest, with or without having to pay federal income taxes and they have EVERY RIGHT to look out for their own interest with or without them having to pay a penny or two in to federal income taxes.... senior citizens have paid taxes all their working lives and just because they are poor in retirement doesn't mean you need to punish them either...

Just as the wealthiest have every right to try to look out for their own best interest. (there were THOUSANDS OF THEM) that did not pay any federal income taxes, even millionaires....do you all think that they don't know what they are doing or what is in the best interest for them?

Everyone gets a shot at it....and sometimes we win and sometimes we lose.

and there is no one so far on this board that claims being in the 47%, (which is amazing to me considering all you folks with children that do get the child tax credits) so the Dems not supporting taxing the poorest among us more, have nothing personal to gain.

that's just how I view it...

Care

 

[Dragon]

Why? Because everyone of us needs to participate in paying for the federal government we elect, even if it is only $100 per year.

Everyone does. The premise of this thread is a lie.

I know they pay their local taxes

They also pay federal taxes. They pay for my mother's Social Security benefits, for example.

They only pay one half of their FICA, so they don't feel the same crunch from that that a self employed person feels.

Hmm, not quite accurate, as I, a self-employed person, know. We get a tax deduction for FICA taxes paid, so we don't actually pay double what an employed person pays (though we do pay more).

However, the point to be made here is that this is irrelevant. It may be unfair that a self-employed person pays higher FICA taxes than an employed person with the same income, but that has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

The claim of this thread is that 47% of the people pay no federal taxes at all and are being carried on the backs of the other 53%. But the 47% DO pay federal taxes.

The premise of this thread is a lie.

 

[Dragon]

On a related subject, there was a great letter over at Daily Kos a couple of days ago that I'm going to reprint here in full. Here's a link to it as well: Daily Kos: Open Letter to that 53% Guy

Hello,

I briefly visited the “We are the 53%” website, but I first saw your face on a liberal blog. Your picture is quite popular on liberal blogs. I think it’s because of the expression on your face. I don’t know if you meant to look pugnacious or if we’re just projecting that on you, but I think that’s what gets our attention.

In the picture, you’re holding up a sheet of paper that says:

I am a former Marine.
I work two jobs.
I don’t have health insurance.
I worked 60-70 hours a week for 8 years to pay my way through college.
I haven’t had 4 consecutive days off in over 4 years.
But I don’t blame Wall Street.
Suck it up you whiners.
I am the 53%.
God bless the USA!

I wanted to respond to you as a liberal. Because, although I think you’ve made yourself clear and I think I understand you, you don’t seem to understand me at all. I hope you will read this and understand me better, and maybe understand the Occupy Wall Street movement better.

First, let me say that I think it’s great that you have such a strong work ethic and I agree with you that you have much to be proud of. You seem like a good, hard-working, strong kid. I admire your dedication and determination. I worked my way through college too, mostly working graveyard shifts at hotels as a “night auditor.” For a time I worked at two hotels at once, but I don’t think I ever worked 60 hours in a week, and certainly not 70. I think I maxed out at 56. And that wasn’t something I could sustain for long, not while going to school. The problem was that I never got much sleep, and sleep deprivation would take its toll. I can’t imagine putting in 70 hours in a week while going to college at the same time. That’s impressive.

I have a nephew in the Marine Corps, so I have some idea of how tough that can be. He almost didn’t make it through basic training, but he stuck it out and insisted on staying even when questions were raised about his medical fitness. He eventually served in Iraq and Afghanistan and has decided to pursue a career in the Marines. We’re all very proud of him. Your picture reminds me of him.

So, if you think being a liberal means that I don’t value hard work or a strong work ethic, you’re wrong. I think everyone appreciates the industry and dedication a person like you displays. I’m sure you’re a great employee, and if you have entrepreneurial ambitions, I’m sure these qualities will serve you there too. I’ll wish you the best of luck, even though a guy like you will probably need luck less than most.


deleted remaining article, It breaks the copy right rules of this board Dragon to paste a full article. cut it down short then link to the rest has been our policy...~Care

 

[Si modo]

On a related subject, there was a great letter over at Daily Kos a couple of days ago that I'm going to reprint here in full. Here's a link to it as well: Daily Kos: Open Letter to that 53% Guy
....

It's against the rules to print others' work in their entirety.

FYI.

 

[American Horse]

Why? Because everyone of us needs to participate in paying for the federal government we elect, even if it is only $100 per year.

Everyone does. The premise of this thread is a lie.

I know they pay their local taxes

They also pay federal taxes. They pay for my mother's Social Security benefits, for example.

They only pay one half of their FICA, so they don't feel the same crunch from that that a self employed person feels.

Hmm, not quite accurate, as I, a self-employed person, know. We get a tax deduction for FICA taxes paid, so we don't actually pay double what an employed person pays (though we do pay more).

However, the point to be made here is that this is irrelevant. It may be unfair that a self-employed person pays higher FICA taxes than an employed person with the same income, but that has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

The claim of this thread is that 47% of the people pay no federal taxes at all and are being carried on the backs of the other 53%. But the 47% DO pay federal taxes.

The premise of this thread is a lie.

They do not pay Federal Income taxes, they only pay Federal FICA taxes, which is funds paid into an account for their own benefit. Not the same thing.

I know, those funds are redirected into the general budget but still, there is an account for each FICA payer and if that is to become a federal income account or is regarded as such then FICA is annuled as a payment into the self direcred Federal Insurance Conribution (Act) and SS and Medicare in effect become welfare. The problem with that happening is that welfare can be too easily changed.