Arizona will require Obama to provide birth cert if he wants to be on ballot

[goldcatt]

I completely agree with you. It should not have anything to do with either one of the parties.

I hope this nation has an office set up to take care of this issue in each election. I am trusting that the procedures were followed by both candidates in the last election. I don't believe that there should even be an issue.

It would be great if we did have such an office and the person who was responsible for that office would simply stand up and say, "I am the individual whose responsibility it is to review candidate eligibility. Upon receiving Mr. Obama's application, I reviewed his documentation and found it wholly satisfactory." In my opinion... end of story!

The fact that this hasn't happened bothers me. Is it true that there is no such office? And if not, why the hell isn't there?

Immie

Because it would be just another bureaucracy, like the CBO, that can be manipulated with political appointments, would be something else to fund, and wouldn't be trusted any more than any other government agency is trusted. It would not solve the problem.

The states are the ones who set the rules and regs for who gets on their ballot and they should be the ones who verify the candidate's eligibility. For that reason, I don't think Arizona is off base requiring such verification.

And it is unfortunate that Obama is being questioned on this as no other candidate has been, but there have not been the questions about any other candidate as there have been, with reason, for him. I am not saying that he should have to produce the long form. I am saying that if he has nothing to hide, he could show that by producing it at least to a few trusted individuals.

You mean to tell me that there is not one single bureaucracy set up in this nation who can take on the responsibility of assuring the nation that candidates are actually eligible for the office they seek?

Hell, if they are that over worked then maybe they do deserve raises!

Then again, that can't be true, I saw on the news this morning that some in the SEC are being investigated for downloading porn at work for eight hours a day. Surely we have the capability of verifying eligibility for candidacy. It can't be all that difficult.

I'm unemployed, I will accept the job starting at $150,000/year and I promise not to download porn while at work either.

Now, the trust issue is one of concern and I can understand that, but then we have to place trust in those who are hired to do their jobs.

Immie

Um, the US State Department verifies citizenship all the time. It's called passport applications. If we're going to verify Presidential citizenship why not just run it through them like they do with any other person's citizenship verification and simply take naturalization papers off the list of acceptable documentation? Or are we currently giving passports to boatloads of non-citizens due to the political machinations of those nasty, awful, partisan hack career civil servant clerks who do the job?

 

[Immanuel]

Because it would be just another bureaucracy, like the CBO, that can be manipulated with political appointments, would be something else to fund, and wouldn't be trusted any more than any other government agency is trusted. It would not solve the problem.

The states are the ones who set the rules and regs for who gets on their ballot and they should be the ones who verify the candidate's eligibility. For that reason, I don't think Arizona is off base requiring such verification.

And it is unfortunate that Obama is being questioned on this as no other candidate has been, but there have not been the questions about any other candidate as there have been, with reason, for him. I am not saying that he should have to produce the long form. I am saying that if he has nothing to hide, he could show that by producing it at least to a few trusted individuals.

You mean to tell me that there is not one single bureaucracy set up in this nation who can take on the responsibility of assuring the nation that candidates are actually eligible for the office they seek?

Hell, if they are that over worked then maybe they do deserve raises!

Then again, that can't be true, I saw on the news this morning that some in the SEC are being investigated for downloading porn at work for eight hours a day. Surely we have the capability of verifying eligibility for candidacy. It can't be all that difficult.

I'm unemployed, I will accept the job starting at $150,000/year and I promise not to download porn while at work either.

Now, the trust issue is one of concern and I can understand that, but then we have to place trust in those who are hired to do their jobs.

Immie

Um, the US State Department verifies citizenship all the time. It's called passport applications. If we're going to verify Presidential citizenship why not just run it through them like they do with any other person's citizenship verification and simply take naturalization papers off the list of acceptable documentation? Or are we currently giving passports to boatloads of non-citizens due to the political machinations of those nasty, awful, partisan hack career civil servant clerks who do the job?

I hope you are not looking for disagreement from me, because that is how I feel... except, that I would be happy to offer my services under contract to the U.S. government for $150k a year!

And also, I said many times in this thread that I believe in this case the issue was taken care of... but, I am still open to offering my services!

Immie

 

[goldcatt]

You mean to tell me that there is not one single bureaucracy set up in this nation who can take on the responsibility of assuring the nation that candidates are actually eligible for the office they seek?

Hell, if they are that over worked then maybe they do deserve raises!

Then again, that can't be true, I saw on the news this morning that some in the SEC are being investigated for downloading porn at work for eight hours a day. Surely we have the capability of verifying eligibility for candidacy. It can't be all that difficult.

I'm unemployed, I will accept the job starting at $150,000/year and I promise not to download porn while at work either.

Now, the trust issue is one of concern and I can understand that, but then we have to place trust in those who are hired to do their jobs.

Immie

Um, the US State Department verifies citizenship all the time. It's called passport applications. If we're going to verify Presidential citizenship why not just run it through them like they do with any other person's citizenship verification and simply take naturalization papers off the list of acceptable documentation? Or are we currently giving passports to boatloads of non-citizens due to the political machinations of those nasty, awful, partisan hack career civil servant clerks who do the job?

I hope you are not looking for disagreement from me, because that is how I feel... except, that I would be happy to offer my services under contract to the U.S. government for $150k a year!

And also, I said many times in this thread that I believe in this case the issue was taken care of... but, I am still open to offering my services!

Immie

Whoops! Sorry, Immie. I wouldn't want to mess with your job prospects.

 

[Immanuel]

Um, the US State Department verifies citizenship all the time. It's called passport applications. If we're going to verify Presidential citizenship why not just run it through them like they do with any other person's citizenship verification and simply take naturalization papers off the list of acceptable documentation? Or are we currently giving passports to boatloads of non-citizens due to the political machinations of those nasty, awful, partisan hack career civil servant clerks who do the job?

I hope you are not looking for disagreement from me, because that is how I feel... except, that I would be happy to offer my services under contract to the U.S. government for $150k a year!

And also, I said many times in this thread that I believe in this case the issue was taken care of... but, I am still open to offering my services!

Immie

Whoops! Sorry, Immie. I wouldn't want to mess with your job prospects.

Thanks, I've been kind of depressed in the job market lately. It hasn't been easy and I'm really struggling with getting the hang of this online job search crap. It was much easier when employers actually gave their phone numbers and addresses out rather than some obscure email address so that you never even know if they open the email and read your letter or resume.

I'm doing fine right now, but I'm beginning to think about going into business for myself.

Immie

 

[JakeStarkey]

No, whackos, no. No legitimate question with convincing support has ever been raised about BHO's citizenship. As McCain and Gingrich and Will and others have said, paraphrase, "Why do these loons continue to associate with good Republicans?"

 

[Rinata]

But see......who is going to determine who is the reliable source?

I mean fuck.......the GOP fringe is stating that those congress people who were spit upon and called ****** are lying because there is no proof (according to Bachman and her cronies), even though the video of the events showed otherwise.

And, with the entrenched crazy that the birthers and tea baggers have, you gotta wonder who they would trust to verify it.

Face it...........the nutjobs are gonna continue to deny, just like the moon landing and 9/11 conspiracy nuts keep doing it.

That is the absolute truth. If God Himself came down and told us Obama's birth certificate was legit, that still would not be good enough. There is proof, but when people don't want the truth nothing is good enough.

FactCheck.org: Born in the U.S.A.

Corsi's claim that Obama posted "false, fake birth certificate" flatly rejected by Hawaii Health Department | Media Matters for America

PolitiFact | Obama's birth certificate: Final chapter. This time we mean it!

 

[goldcatt]

I hope you are not looking for disagreement from me, because that is how I feel... except, that I would be happy to offer my services under contract to the U.S. government for $150k a year!

And also, I said many times in this thread that I believe in this case the issue was taken care of... but, I am still open to offering my services!

Immie

Whoops! Sorry, Immie. I wouldn't want to mess with your job prospects.

Thanks, I've been kind of depressed in the job market lately. It hasn't been easy and I'm really struggling with getting the hang of this online job search crap. It was much easier when employers actually gave their phone numbers and addresses out rather than some obscure email address so that you never even know if they open the email and read your letter or resume.

I'm doing fine right now, but I'm beginning to think about going into business for myself.

Immie

Hey, I just got called back full time starting next week myself, and no guarantee how long that will last in this real estate market. It's still up and down. If I had the capital I'd be right there with ya, believe me.

That's it, Immie for Official Presidential Citizenship Decider! I'd trust ya.

 

[Immanuel]

Whoops! Sorry, Immie. I wouldn't want to mess with your job prospects.

Thanks, I've been kind of depressed in the job market lately. It hasn't been easy and I'm really struggling with getting the hang of this online job search crap. It was much easier when employers actually gave their phone numbers and addresses out rather than some obscure email address so that you never even know if they open the email and read your letter or resume.

I'm doing fine right now, but I'm beginning to think about going into business for myself.

Immie

Hey, I just got called back full time starting next week myself, and no guarantee how long that will last in this real estate market. It's still up and down. If I had the capital I'd be right there with ya, believe me.

That's it, Immie for Official Presidential Citizenship Decider! I'd trust ya.

No! No! No!

I would not take a position with that title because that is not what I believe should be done.

I believe all candidates should have to provide documentation as to their eligibility. As long as the documentation is official and not forged there is no "decision" to be made.

Verify the authenticity of the documentation is the only thing that is appropriate here. Is that passport legit? Is that COLB official and produced by the state of issue? The only thing that should be allowed is to confirm the nature of the document. Nothing more.

And congratulations on the call back.

Immie

 

[goldcatt]

Thanks, I've been kind of depressed in the job market lately. It hasn't been easy and I'm really struggling with getting the hang of this online job search crap. It was much easier when employers actually gave their phone numbers and addresses out rather than some obscure email address so that you never even know if they open the email and read your letter or resume.

I'm doing fine right now, but I'm beginning to think about going into business for myself.

Immie

Hey, I just got called back full time starting next week myself, and no guarantee how long that will last in this real estate market. It's still up and down. If I had the capital I'd be right there with ya, believe me.

That's it, Immie for Official Presidential Citizenship Decider! I'd trust ya.

No! No! No!

I would not take a position with that title because that is not what I believe should be done.

I believe all candidates should have to provide documentation as to their eligibility. As long as the documentation is official and not forged there is no "decision" to be made.

Verify the authenticity of the documentation is the only thing that is appropriate here. Is that passport legit? Is that COLB official and produced by the state of issue? The only thing that should be allowed is to confirm the nature of the document. Nothing more.

And congratulations on the call back.

Immie

I hear ya. The standards already exist. Heck, if you find another job soon there are already people who get paid to do it every day.

But you know no matter what is done or how, there will always be people who cry foul. Personally, I think Obama's done more on this issue anyway than any other candidate, it's not his fault or McCain's or anybody else's there's no official verification process in place.

Having all 50 States do it themsleves is asking for headaches and confusion though. Federal position, Federal standard, Federal citizenship, just let the Feds handle it.

Now somebody just needs to talk to Congress.

 

[Immanuel]

Hey, I just got called back full time starting next week myself, and no guarantee how long that will last in this real estate market. It's still up and down. If I had the capital I'd be right there with ya, believe me.

That's it, Immie for Official Presidential Citizenship Decider! I'd trust ya.

No! No! No!

I would not take a position with that title because that is not what I believe should be done.

I believe all candidates should have to provide documentation as to their eligibility. As long as the documentation is official and not forged there is no "decision" to be made.

Verify the authenticity of the documentation is the only thing that is appropriate here. Is that passport legit? Is that COLB official and produced by the state of issue? The only thing that should be allowed is to confirm the nature of the document. Nothing more.

And congratulations on the call back.

Immie

I hear ya. The standards already exist. Heck, if you find another job soon there are already people who get paid to do it every day.

But you know no matter what is done or how, there will always be people who cry foul. Personally, I think Obama's done more on this issue anyway than any other candidate, it's not his fault or McCain's or anybody else's there's no official verification process in place.

Having all 50 States do it themsleves is asking for headaches and confusion though. Federal position, Federal standard, Federal citizenship, just let the Feds handle it.

Now somebody just needs to talk to Congress.

As I said before, I am certain he did what was required and this is a non-issue.

If verification is not done it should be done. That has been the only point I have tried to make here.

However, I would never trust Congress to do that job! Not in a hundred million years, I don't care which party rules.

Immie

 

[Yurt]

I believe, and I'm extrapolating here, so I can't say it for absolute fact, but I believe that:

The courts considered the reason for the law's existence, which is to make sure foreign powers don't have undue influence on the office of the President, to be not applicable to the situation at hand.

After all, they must have reasoned, even if all of the plaintiff's evidence was completely correct, and Obama was born in, say, Kenya, but was taken over to Hawaii as a young infant, it would have had no bearing at all on the grown man's mindset, and thus not be applicable to the security of the country.

After all, what could the Kenyan government possibly have done that would affect the later life opinions of a week-old infant?

Thus there was no validity to the claim that harm was somehow inflicted upon anyone due to the birthplace of Mr Obama, even if everything the plaintiff claimed was completely true.

i see........so constitutional violations are no big deal, not harmful....

why even have the constitution then, i mean if we're just going to ignore it when we see fit?

I realize you are not addressing my comments, but since I agreed with LWC let me put my two cents in here.

I don't see the constitutional violations as no big deal. They were put there for a reason and rightly so, but not every instance that such a requirement might block is a risk to National Security.

Immie

then you support allowing arnold to run for president?

 

[goldcatt]

No! No! No!

I would not take a position with that title because that is not what I believe should be done.

I believe all candidates should have to provide documentation as to their eligibility. As long as the documentation is official and not forged there is no "decision" to be made.

Verify the authenticity of the documentation is the only thing that is appropriate here. Is that passport legit? Is that COLB official and produced by the state of issue? The only thing that should be allowed is to confirm the nature of the document. Nothing more.

And congratulations on the call back.

Immie

I hear ya. The standards already exist. Heck, if you find another job soon there are already people who get paid to do it every day.

But you know no matter what is done or how, there will always be people who cry foul. Personally, I think Obama's done more on this issue anyway than any other candidate, it's not his fault or McCain's or anybody else's there's no official verification process in place.

Having all 50 States do it themsleves is asking for headaches and confusion though. Federal position, Federal standard, Federal citizenship, just let the Feds handle it.

Now somebody just needs to talk to Congress.

As I said before, I am certain he did what was required and this is a non-issue.

If verification is not done it should be done. That has been the only point I have tried to make here.

However, I would never trust Congress to do that job! Not in a hundred million years, I don't care which party rules.

Immie

No, but if there's going to be a Federal requirement set it has to be done by Congress. Oh hell no, I don't want them deciding the issue!

 

[Immanuel]

i see........so constitutional violations are no big deal, not harmful....

why even have the constitution then, i mean if we're just going to ignore it when we see fit?

I realize you are not addressing my comments, but since I agreed with LWC let me put my two cents in here.

I don't see the constitutional violations as no big deal. They were put there for a reason and rightly so, but not every instance that such a requirement might block is a risk to National Security.

Immie

then you support allowing arnold to run for president?

No, the Constitution clearly lays out the requirements. Arnold is not eligible.

However, I do not believe it would be a security risk if he were President.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

I hear ya. The standards already exist. Heck, if you find another job soon there are already people who get paid to do it every day.

But you know no matter what is done or how, there will always be people who cry foul. Personally, I think Obama's done more on this issue anyway than any other candidate, it's not his fault or McCain's or anybody else's there's no official verification process in place.

Having all 50 States do it themsleves is asking for headaches and confusion though. Federal position, Federal standard, Federal citizenship, just let the Feds handle it.

Now somebody just needs to talk to Congress.

As I said before, I am certain he did what was required and this is a non-issue.

If verification is not done it should be done. That has been the only point I have tried to make here.

However, I would never trust Congress to do that job! Not in a hundred million years, I don't care which party rules.

Immie

No, but if there's going to be a Federal requirement set it has to be done by Congress. Oh hell no, I don't want them deciding the issue!

Why does it have to be done by Congress?

That is what we pay the working people in our government for... right?

Immie

 

[goldcatt]

As I said before, I am certain he did what was required and this is a non-issue.

If verification is not done it should be done. That has been the only point I have tried to make here.

However, I would never trust Congress to do that job! Not in a hundred million years, I don't care which party rules.

Immie

No, but if there's going to be a Federal requirement set it has to be done by Congress. Oh hell no, I don't want them deciding the issue!

Why does it have to be done by Congress?

That is what we pay the working people in our government for... right?

Immie

If it's going to be a requirement, there has to be a law on the books requiring it. And also authorizing the State Department or whoever gets the nod to do the verification and release the results to the States upon request or however that would work. That's a legislative function, which means Congress. But Congress shouldn't be handling the actual documentation, just writing the law.

 

[Immanuel]

No, but if there's going to be a Federal requirement set it has to be done by Congress. Oh hell no, I don't want them deciding the issue!

Why does it have to be done by Congress?

That is what we pay the working people in our government for... right?

Immie

If it's going to be a requirement, there has to be a law on the books requiring it. And also authorizing the State Department or whoever gets the nod to do the verification and release the results to the States upon request or however that would work. That's a legislative function, which means Congress. But Congress shouldn't be handling the actual documentation, just writing the law.

Okay, that makes more sense, I wanted to make sure you didn't mean a committee of Congress had to review the documents themselves...

God forbid!

Immie

 

[goldcatt]

Why does it have to be done by Congress?

That is what we pay the working people in our government for... right?

Immie

If it's going to be a requirement, there has to be a law on the books requiring it. And also authorizing the State Department or whoever gets the nod to do the verification and release the results to the States upon request or however that would work. That's a legislative function, which means Congress. But Congress shouldn't be handling the actual documentation, just writing the law.

Okay, that makes more sense, I wanted to make sure you didn't mean a committee of Congress had to review the documents themselves...

God forbid!

Immie

Wash your mouth out with soap, young man!

It would be entertaining though. Could you imagine those grandstanding hacks fighting over each and every candidate's birth certificate? The House and Senate custodians might complain about having to wipe all that foam off the floor, and we'd probably never get a candidate for President let alone two or more to choose from, but they could probably charge pay per view and alleviate a chunk of the national debt.

 

[Vast LWC]

I believe, and I'm extrapolating here, so I can't say it for absolute fact, but I believe that:

The courts considered the reason for the law's existence, which is to make sure foreign powers don't have undue influence on the office of the President, to be not applicable to the situation at hand.

After all, they must have reasoned, even if all of the plaintiff's evidence was completely correct, and Obama was born in, say, Kenya, but was taken over to Hawaii as a young infant, it would have had no bearing at all on the grown man's mindset, and thus not be applicable to the security of the country.

After all, what could the Kenyan government possibly have done that would affect the later life opinions of a week-old infant?

Thus there was no validity to the claim that harm was somehow inflicted upon anyone due to the birthplace of Mr Obama, even if everything the plaintiff claimed was completely true.

i see........so constitutional violations are no big deal, not harmful....

why even have the constitution then, i mean if we're just going to ignore it when we see fit?

No, no...

The suit was brought forward as a civil lawsuit, aimed at stopping the election of Obama.

In a civil lawsuit, you have to prove harm against the plaintiff for there to be a case. The plaintiff in this case could not prove harm, and therefore the case was dismissed before the merits were reviewed.

So the dismissal had nothing to do with the constitutionality of the matter, which would only apply when merits came into consideration.

 

[Vast LWC]

Okay, that makes more sense, I wanted to make sure you didn't mean a committee of Congress had to review the documents themselves...

God forbid!

Immie

Wash your mouth out with soap, young man!

It would be entertaining though. Could you imagine those grandstanding hacks fighting over each and every candidate's birth certificate? The House and Senate custodians might complain about having to wipe all that foam off the floor, and we'd probably never get a candidate for President let alone two or more to choose from, but they could probably charge pay per view and alleviate a chunk of the national debt.

LOL, this is good stuff.

 

[goldcatt]

Okay, that makes more sense, I wanted to make sure you didn't mean a committee of Congress had to review the documents themselves...

God forbid!

Immie

Wash your mouth out with soap, young man!

It would be entertaining though. Could you imagine those grandstanding hacks fighting over each and every candidate's birth certificate? The House and Senate custodians might complain about having to wipe all that foam off the floor, and we'd probably never get a candidate for President let alone two or more to choose from, but they could probably charge pay per view and alleviate a chunk of the national debt.

LOL, this is good stuff.

Not the best way to run a country, but it has been a while since there were fistfights in the halls of Congress. Now that I think about it, that might be just what we need to get people interested in government again.