Arming the debt bomb and rolling the dice ... Trump recession portends runaway debt and ruin

[gipper]

It's not Trumps debt and it wasn't Obama's debt- it's tax payer debt.

Yes. We go into debt to enrich the rich. What a deal.

 

[colfax_m]

It's not Trumps debt and it wasn't Obama's debt- it's tax payer debt.

Yes. We go into debt to enrich the rich. What a deal.

That’s trickle down economics for you.

 

[colfax_m]

I am up 4.6% from yesterday's close to now... Holla!

All is well!

 

[colfax_m]

Obama added $2,848,864,083 to the national debt each and every day he was in office.

So far Trump has added $3,630,369,128 to the debt each and every day he has been in office.

And Trump is doing so in the “best economy we’ve ever had”.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Just a question-------------> If you do not deficit spend during a military problem, during an economic problem, (like Obama did) or during a health crisis which is affecting everything; when do you deficit spend?

We can have discussions about deficit spending when things are good, and many points I agree with Gator on. But when the stuff hits the fan and extra spending is needed, we can disagree on how it is being spent for sure, but these are the times that tool needs to be used.

There is a time for short term deficit spending, but that is not what we have in this country. We have squandered a record setting period of economic expansion by adding to the debt in near record numbers over the last 3 years. And it has been done to keep the expansion going well past its natural life cycle.

There is also the problem of the mixed messages from Trump. Yesterday Trump tweets out facts about the Flu and basically tells us everyone is over reacting. Then he goes on TV and say things are bad enough we need to cut payroll taxes.

If I thought Trump was doing it to help the poor and downtrodden it would be one thing, but you and I both know it is only about his reelection. He cannot let the economy slip before Nov.

 

[Gdjjr]

That’s trickle down economics for you.

Out of curiosity what would you propose?

 

[imawhosure]

Just a question-------------> If you do not deficit spend during a military problem, during an economic problem, (like Obama did) or during a health crisis which is affecting everything; when do you deficit spend?

We can have discussions about deficit spending when things are good, and many points I agree with Gator on. But when the stuff hits the fan and extra spending is needed, we can disagree on how it is being spent for sure, but these are the times that tool needs to be used.

There is a time for short term deficit spending, but that is not what we have in this country. We have squandered a record setting period of economic expansion by adding to the debt in near record numbers over the last 3 years. And it has been done to keep the expansion going well past its natural life cycle.

There is also the problem of the mixed messages from Trump. Yesterday Trump tweets out facts about the Flu and basically tells us everyone is over reacting. Then he goes on TV and say things are bad enough we need to cut payroll taxes.

If I thought Trump was doing it to help the poor and downtrodden it would be one thing, but you and I both know it is only about his reelection. He cannot let the economy slip before Nov.

OK, then I will ask you an honest question, to which I expect an honest answer----------------->Do you think the US economy would have entered recession this year without the Corona virus, and the attack on the US fracking industry because of the Corona virus making it feasible?

 

[colfax_m]

That’s trickle down economics for you.

Out of curiosity what would you propose?

Eliminate the difference between earned and unearned income. Higher taxes on the wealthy.

 

[gipper]

That’s trickle down economics for you.

Out of curiosity what would you propose?

I propose let’s stop enriching the rich and instead helping the poor and working class. Novel idea no?

 

[Brain357]

Just a question-------------> If you do not deficit spend during a military problem, during an economic problem, (like Obama did) or during a health crisis which is affecting everything; when do you deficit spend?

We can have discussions about deficit spending when things are good, and many points I agree with Gator on. But when the stuff hits the fan and extra spending is needed, we can disagree on how it is being spent for sure, but these are the times that tool needs to be used.

There is a time for short term deficit spending, but that is not what we have in this country. We have squandered a record setting period of economic expansion by adding to the debt in near record numbers over the last 3 years. And it has been done to keep the expansion going well past its natural life cycle.

There is also the problem of the mixed messages from Trump. Yesterday Trump tweets out facts about the Flu and basically tells us everyone is over reacting. Then he goes on TV and say things are bad enough we need to cut payroll taxes.

If I thought Trump was doing it to help the poor and downtrodden it would be one thing, but you and I both know it is only about his reelection. He cannot let the economy slip before Nov.

OK, then I will ask you an honest question, to which I expect an honest answer----------------->Do you think the US economy would have entered recession this year without the Corona virus, and the attack on the US fracking industry because of the Corona virus making it feasible?

Last year slowed down....

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

The Saudis price war with the russians is not an attack on the U.S. frackers..and they're just really trying to bring them back to the table



Last time prices got to low to keep fraking wells open they simply turned em off and closed em down ..only to open em up again

It's much cheaper to frack today anyway than it was four of five years ago

 

[gipper]

The Saudis price war with the russians is not an attack on the U.S. frackers..and they're just really trying to bring them back to the table



Last time prices got to low to keep fraking wells open they simply turned em off and closed em down ..only to open em up again

It's much cheaper to frack today anyway than it was four of five years ago

I read a column the other day that claimed the Russians have a cost to produce oil at $22 a barrel, while the Saudis cost is $80. If true, we know who wins a price war.

 

[imawhosure]

The Saudis price war with the russians is not an attack on the U.S. frackers..and they're just really trying to bring them back to the table



Last time prices got to low to keep fraking wells open they simply turned em off and closed em down ..only to open em up again

It's much cheaper to frack today anyway than it was four of five years ago

See, you are just wrong! The break even point for fracking is in the vicinity of 40 bucks per barrel. Many frackers took on debt to increase production as world demand increased. They just can't shut them down anymore.

Many frackers are also giving us the huge supply of NG that we enjoy today, as that is a by product of drilling the wells.

Do you remember when NG went through the roof? Shut down those wells, and guess what happens to your heating bill.

The Russians know exactly what they are doing, and in chess terms they are doing a gambit. They are sacrificing long term stability in price, on the notion they can damage our energy industry, which has put them behind the 8 ball.

Will they win? I do not know, but it would help if Americans actually got a grasp of this situation for future reference.

 

[Gdjjr]

Higher taxes on the wealthy.

Trickle down is trickle down. Just an FYI- taxes confiscate wealth to be doled out from the top (godvernment) down- as in trickle.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

OK, then I will ask you an honest question, to which I expect an honest answer----------------->Do you think the US economy would have entered recession this year without the Corona virus, and the attack on the US fracking industry because of the Corona virus making it feasible?

I think we have been teetering on the edge of a recession for a while, which is to be expected with the length of the current expansion. If it were not the coronavirus it would have been something else. Would it have come before Nov...who knows as we never really know what is going to be the tipping point.

I will not blame Trump for the coming recession nor do I really blame him for trying his best to stall it as long as possible, anyone would do the same. I do worry what happens when it comes since pretty much every trick we have to get out of one has been used to slow its coming.

The thing I hear the most about getting us out is massive infrastructure spending, which means huge amounts added to the debt. In the last recession the deficit almost tripled in a single year. Imagine if that happens when the deficit is already 1.3 trillion per year.

 

[Gdjjr]

I propose let’s stop enriching the rich and instead helping the poor and working class. Novel idea no?

I don't disagree with your premise, but, how do you propose implementing that?

 

[Brain357]

The Saudis price war with the russians is not an attack on the U.S. frackers..and they're just really trying to bring them back to the table



Last time prices got to low to keep fraking wells open they simply turned em off and closed em down ..only to open em up again

It's much cheaper to frack today anyway than it was four of five years ago

See, you are just wrong! The break even point for fracking is in the vicinity of 40 bucks per barrel. Many frackers took on debt to increase production as world demand increased. They just can't shut them down anymore.

Many frackers are also giving us the huge supply of NG that we enjoy today, as that is a by product of drilling the wells.

Do you remember when NG went through the roof? Shut down those wells, and guess what happens to your heating bill.

The Russians know exactly what they are doing, and in chess terms they are doing a gambit. They are sacrificing long term stability in price, on the notion they can damage our energy industry, which has put them behind the 8 ball.

Will they win? I do not know, but it would help if Americans actually got a grasp of this situation for future reference.

If we can’t produce efficiently enough it should go under. We should be involved in business we are good at. It’s called capitalism.

 

[colfax_m]

Higher taxes on the wealthy.

Trickle down is trickle down. Just an FYI- taxes confiscate wealth to be doled out from the top (godvernment) down- as in trickle.

No, sorry. That’s not what trickle down means. You don’t get to redefine these terms.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I propose let’s stop enriching the rich and instead helping the poor and working class. Novel idea no?

I don't disagree with your premise, but, how do you propose implementing that?

That is a good question. While the payroll tax sounds good, does it really move the meter much?

If the cut is 2 percentage points like it was last time they did this, that comes about to about 80 bucks a paycheck for someone making 100,000. That is about 24 per check (assuming bi-weekly pay) for someone making 30,000 a year.

How much does that help? I cannot pretend to know the answer to that.

 

[Gdjjr]

There is a time for short term deficit spending, but that is not what we have in this country. We have squandered a record setting period of economic expansion by adding to the debt in near record numbers over the last 3 years. And it has been done to keep the expansion going well past its natural life cycle.

ALL gov't spending is deficit. It has to be since taxes are collected well after a budget is determined and put into play.
Debt is not deficit and deficit is not debt.
The federal reserve controls money supply and one of the tools it uses to get more money into the economy (in large quantities) is lending to the gov't.
The "expansion", if based on debt, isn't Natural to begin with so it stands to reason those who hold the debt (the fed reserve) would prolong it to lend more (of what isn't there) to create more of something to pay interest on with something there.
We operate in a debt economy. As long as the notes (dollars) are phony so too will the economy be.
This all can be traced to 1913- both sides subscribe to it and don't mind enslaving tax payers (rich and poor) to the masters (central bankers) who (like their political counter parts) are creating hegemony world wide- the result will be (as it already is) the world will be in debt to the fed reserve who 'ostensibly' want to "control" the "expansions and withdrawals" to smooth the economy from it's "natural" peaks and valleys.