At this point, we know the differences are irreconcilable between libs and conservatives

[Ray From Cleveland]

I agree

libs will cut off their nose to spite their face

so under biden we will get higher gas prices and energy blackouts

Correct, at least until we get closer to the election. If prices don't decrease by September, he will announce some sort of plans to increase our own production even though it won't do anything until long after the election.

 

[Donald H]

If you mean a direct military confrontation with the Russians, absolutely not. The Ukraine is not that important to us. It ranks 71st in the world in trade with the US. It's not a great strategic military asset. In fact, I don't see it as an ally. It is simply a country that the US has cordial relations and we would like to see their fledgling democracy develop.

BTW, it would be incredibly stupid for him use nuclear weapons to win a war he can easily win without them. He wants the Ukraine intact, not a pile of nuclear waste.

You need to start considering the whole situation at a deeper level. If the Ukraine starts causing too many Russian casualties, Putin will just up the ante. And then the US will up the ante and so it goes.

But Russia isn't going to accept casualties for long before they resort to an allout effort to end it in their favour.

And all along, in the real world the US is engaged in a war with Russia by supplying it's weaponry to the Ukraine.

That's when the situation starts to threaten a world war.

Hold our breathes. There's once again an offer by one or the other party to talk peace. My info is that Zelensky has made the proposal.

You need to start considering the whole situation at a deeper level.

There's a lot of posturing going on by both sides, which makes it an 'unreal' war or a friendly war.

Hopefully the discussion can get up to speed on a higher level of understanding?

 

[Flopper]

He may not fail but it will cost his military dearly. And how is Ukraine any threat to Russia, by joining NATO which would only possibly assure them security against a Russian attack?

The costs are high but Putin is not concerned. What he is doing makes no sense to the US or the rest world. Only days after the invasion, almost every major country in the world started putting sanctions on Russia. Yesterday we learned essentially every country in Europe has closed there air space to Russia. Airports all over the world have said they will not land Russian aircrafts. And that's just the begin. The UK is denying Russia access to key banks in London used in oil fund transfers from Russia. The US is putting a long list of sanctions on Russia and there may be more to come. His attack on Ukraine was manna from Heaven for NATO. It has consolidated views and opinions and has almost assured a military buildup in NATO. All this is over country on the Russia border that is no threat and has little to offers Russia and promises to be thorn in their side.

So why is Russia doing this? The thing is, we’re not talking about Russia. If you look at the opinion polls, Russians themselves have no enthusiasm for any kind of a war. However, Putin is a very popular charismatic leader and he has sold the invasion to the Russia people and Federal Assembly as a rescue mention to save Russians in Ukraine and stop the threat of an ever expanding NATO which will encircle and destroy Russia.

This invasion is about a small circle of people around Putin who dominate this country. If you look at them, they are essentially the last gasp of Soviet elites, the people who didn’t just have their early childhood education in the Soviet times, but also their early career experiences. They were made. They thought they knew the way their life was going to be. And then all of a sudden the whole thing collapsed.

These are people who genuinely believe the West is hostile, who genuinely believe that the West is denying Russia its proper place in the world, that it’s trying to hold Russia down and trying to undermine the regime. When we support, for example, anti-corruption activists like the opposition leader Alexei Navalny, who Putin had poisoned and then put in prison, they don’t see that as US standing up for what we think of as natural human rights. They see that as a sign that the West is trying to use the situation to undermine the regime.

The actually endgame is to force the west into some kind of cold war where Russia can not be ignored as they have been in the G7, G20, kicked out of G8, ignored in Syria. Putin wants to sit at the head of the table. It is really horrible that many thousands will die because of these fools whose time has past. However Ukraine is not the end but rather the begining of Putin's campaign to bring back past glories.

"It’s not about Russia. It’s about Putin": An expert explains Putin’s endgame in Ukraine

According to Mark Galeotti, Putin wants to cement his place in history by restoring Russian control over its neighbor.

www.vox.com

 

[Donald H]

The costs are high but Putin is not concerned. What he is doing makes no sense to the US or the rest world. Only days after the invasion, almost every major country in the world started putting sanctions on Russia. Yesterday we learned essentially every country in Europe has closed there air space to Russia. Airports all over the world have said they will not land Russian aircrafts. And that's just the begin. The UK is denying Russia access to key banks in London used in oil fund transfers from Russia. The US is putting a long list of sanctions on Russia and there may be more to come. His attack on Ukraine was manna from Heaven for NATO. It has consolidated views and opinions and has almost assured a military buildup in NATO. All this is over country on the Russia border that is no threat and has little to offers Russia and promises to be thorn in their side.

So why is Russia doing this? The thing is, we’re not talking about Russia. If you look at the opinion polls, Russians themselves have no enthusiasm for any kind of a war. However, Putin is a very popular charismatic leader and he has sold the invasion to the Russia people and Federal Assembly as a rescue mention to save Russians in Ukraine and stop the threat of an ever expanding NATO which will encircle and destroy Russia.

This invasion is about a small circle of people around Putin who dominate this country. If you look at them, they are essentially the last gasp of Soviet elites, the people who didn’t just have their early childhood education in the Soviet times, but also their early career experiences. They were made. They thought they knew the way their life was going to be. And then all of a sudden the whole thing collapsed.

These are people who genuinely believe the West is hostile, who genuinely believe that the West is denying Russia its proper place in the world, that it’s trying to hold Russia down and trying to undermine the regime. When we support, for example, anti-corruption activists like the opposition leader Alexei Navalny, who Putin had poisoned and then put in prison, they don’t see that as US standing up for what we think of as natural human rights. They see that as a sign that the West is trying to use the situation to undermine the regime.

The actually endgame is to force the west into some kind of cold war where Russia can not be ignored as they have been in the G7, G20, kicked out of G8, ignored in Syria. Putin wants to sit at the head of the table. It is really horrible that many thousands will die because of these fools whose time has past. However Ukraine is not the end but rather the begining of Putin's campaign to bring back past glories.

"It’s not about Russia. It’s about Putin": An expert explains Putin’s endgame in Ukraine

According to Mark Galeotti, Putin wants to cement his place in history by restoring Russian control over its neighbor.

www.vox.com

Talk is cheap until you get the 50 caliber machine guns mounted on each arm of your recliner, rocker. Then the rest of the world will sit up and pay attention big time!
I sure wouldn't want to be anywhere near your big screen t.v. set right now!

 

[Flopper]

You need to start considering the whole situation at a deeper level. If the Ukraine starts causing too many Russian casualties, Putin will just up the ante. And then the US will up the ante and so it goes.

But Russia isn't going to accept casualties for long before they resort to an allout effort to end it in their favour.

And all along, in the real world the US is engaged in a war with Russia by supplying it's weaponry to the Ukraine.

That's when the situation starts to threaten a world war.

Hold our breathes. There's once again an offer by one or the other party to talk peace. My info is that Zelensky has made the proposal.



There's a lot of posturing going on by both sides, which makes it an 'unreal' war or a friendly war.

Hopefully the discussion can get up to speed on a higher level of understanding?

I will agree it is an unreal war because it's hard to see what Russia will gain from this. Putin is concerned about the NATO threat yet invading the Ukraine has consolidated opinions and views in NATO countries which certainly will lead to a military expansion. He sold the invasion to the Federal Assembly and the Duma as a rescue mission to free Russian being attacked in Ukraine and stop NATO expansion. He did not sell this invasion as a war but a military action to save Russians. Russians are not going to be expecting thousands of deaths, a consolidated NATO, a conquered nation with the 2nd largest army in the region to deal with plus a lot financial problems due to sanctions.

I think you are right. Putin is going to try to end this thing quickly. If Zelensky doesn't throw in the towel in the current talks, Russia will hit the country hard and it that fails, Zelenksky might be able to negotiate a deal where Russia keeps the western region and he makes a guarantee about joining NATO. Putin would go home a victor accomplishing what he promised. To keep fighting till they subdue the country makes no sense for Russia. They end up with a bombed out country, thousands of armed troops wandering the countryside killing Russians as they have been doing for years and to top it off, Ukraine was no real threat to Russia.

 

[Flopper]

Correct, at least until we get closer to the election. If prices don't decrease by September, he will announce some sort of plans to increase our own production even though it won't do anything until long after the election.

I don't think there anything Biden or any president could do to bring inflation down before the election. The sanctions both republican and democrats seem to support will certainly drive prices higher.

 

[YoursTruly]

Putin invades Ukraine....rightwingers respond by blaming United States government.

What the fuck is wrong with you idiots? Did Putin's trolls get into all of your facebook feeds? What the hell is going on?

It's called looking at what's going on now, and how it got there. It's knowing a little about history. With all that in mind, then comes the decision making.

None of us on the right think Russia is without fault. But when you add up all that's going on:
1. NATO breaking agreements to not move east towards Russia.
2. Russia keeping Ukraine propped up with hundreds of billions of $$$.
3. Ukraine refusing to pay Russia back.
4. Ukraine calling in NATO, like it was a spoiled child.
5. All the sanctions being placed on Russia, just to protect Ukraine.
6. The corrupt government of Ukraine squandering the money that Russia, the USA and other countries gave them.

Then it all leads to Ukraine being responsible for Russia's aggression. They're getting tired of being played the fool.

This is like an argument with your wife. She calmly, but deliberately pushes your buttons, just to get you pissed off. On and on and on, until you finally had enough and raise your voice to her. Suddenly, it's your fault for raising your voice.

 

[YoursTruly]

I will agree it is an unreal war because it's hard to see what Russia will gain from this. Putin is concerned about the NATO threat yet invading the Ukraine has consolidated opinions and views in NATO countries which certainly will lead to a military expansion. He sold the invasion to the Federal Assembly and the Duma as a rescue mission to free Russian being attacked in Ukraine and stop NATO expansion. He did not sell this invasion as a war but a military action to save Russians. Russians are not going to be expecting thousands of deaths, a consolidated NATO, a conquered nation with the 2nd largest army in the region to deal with plus a lot financial problems due to sanctions.

I think you are right. Putin is going to try to end this thing quickly. If Zelensky doesn't throw in the towel in the current talks, Russia will hit the country hard and it that fails, Zelenksky might be able to negotiate a deal where Russia keeps the western region and he makes a guarantee about joining NATO. Putin would go home a victor accomplishing what he promised. To keep fighting till they subdue the country makes no sense for Russia. They end up with a bombed out country, thousands of armed troops wandering the countryside killing Russians as they have been doing for years and to top it off, Ukraine was no real threat to Russia.

All of this could be avoided if Ukraine pays Russia back all the money it owes them. But they can't because they squandered it. The US and NATO aren't going to loan Ukraine the money because they know the Ukraine leadership will squander that money too.

But, going on what you just stated, makes me think there's a bigger reason why NATO is surrounding Russia. Oil and other natural resources?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I don't think there anything Biden or any president could do to bring inflation down before the election. The sanctions both republican and democrats seem to support will certainly drive prices higher.

It has nothing to do with the Republicans.

In February Dementia signed a bill that paid people more to stay home than work.

When people stay home instead of working that creates a labor shortage.

When people are not working that creates a supply chain shortage.

When industry has to compete with government to attract workers, they can only do so with better pay offers,

When industry has to overpay workers to get things done, those costs get transferred to the products and services we buy every day.

When you have to pay more money for the products and services you get, that's the definition of inflation.

On top of the products and services costing more, transportation costs have increased as well. Printing phony money also increases costs because it weakens the US dollars and on the international market when it takes more US dollars to buy the same products, that too creates inflation.

The Republicans haven't held the House in three years so this is all on the Democrats, not the Republicans. We just hit the 30 trillion dollar debt mark this month and Democrats are talking about spending trillions more for their pork and green nonsense.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The costs are high but Putin is not concerned. What he is doing makes no sense to the US or the rest world. Only days after the invasion, almost every major country in the world started putting sanctions on Russia. Yesterday we learned essentially every country in Europe has closed there air space to Russia. Airports all over the world have said they will not land Russian aircrafts. And that's just the begin. The UK is denying Russia access to key banks in London used in oil fund transfers from Russia. The US is putting a long list of sanctions on Russia and there may be more to come. His attack on Ukraine was manna from Heaven for NATO. It has consolidated views and opinions and has almost assured a military buildup in NATO. All this is over country on the Russia border that is no threat and has little to offers Russia and promises to be thorn in their side.

So why is Russia doing this? The thing is, we’re not talking about Russia. If you look at the opinion polls, Russians themselves have no enthusiasm for any kind of a war. However, Putin is a very popular charismatic leader and he has sold the invasion to the Russia people and Federal Assembly as a rescue mention to save Russians in Ukraine and stop the threat of an ever expanding NATO which will encircle and destroy Russia.

This invasion is about a small circle of people around Putin who dominate this country. If you look at them, they are essentially the last gasp of Soviet elites, the people who didn’t just have their early childhood education in the Soviet times, but also their early career experiences. They were made. They thought they knew the way their life was going to be. And then all of a sudden the whole thing collapsed.

These are people who genuinely believe the West is hostile, who genuinely believe that the West is denying Russia its proper place in the world, that it’s trying to hold Russia down and trying to undermine the regime. When we support, for example, anti-corruption activists like the opposition leader Alexei Navalny, who Putin had poisoned and then put in prison, they don’t see that as US standing up for what we think of as natural human rights. They see that as a sign that the West is trying to use the situation to undermine the regime.

The actually endgame is to force the west into some kind of cold war where Russia can not be ignored as they have been in the G7, G20, kicked out of G8, ignored in Syria. Putin wants to sit at the head of the table. It is really horrible that many thousands will die because of these fools whose time has past. However Ukraine is not the end but rather the begining of Putin's campaign to bring back past glories.

"It’s not about Russia. It’s about Putin": An expert explains Putin’s endgame in Ukraine

According to Mark Galeotti, Putin wants to cement his place in history by restoring Russian control over its neighbor.

www.vox.com

The two main trains of thought is that Russia wants to stop Ukraine from joining NATO. Zelensky believes it's bullshit otherwise as a younger man, he could wait out Putin's death which by the looks of him, doesn't seem too far off. The other thought is that Putin knows he's ill and wants to go down in history as starting the reformulation of the Soviet Union. That seems more logical to me than NATO.

What Putin wasn't expecting is this world reaction he's getting plus disapproval from his very own people. This week will be very telling depending on what Putin does from this point on.

BP cutting ties with Russian oil and gas giant, Rosneft

Watch previously aired video for more about how sanctions on Russia will impact gas prices (WJW) — BP announced on Sunday that it’s cutting ties with Russian oil giant, Rosneft, after t…

fox8.com

 

[Jim H - VA USA]

After just a little over one year we are living the reality of a completely failed president and his party. Whatever could go wrong has gone wrong and continues to go worse and there is no sign of it letting up. Still, while one side is saying - See? Just look around and listen to our president try and talk!, the other side is finding ways to defend this shit show. If the media was even a little bit honest, some of these people would realize how bad it is, but I think most would still cling to some alternate lib reality any way they could.

I fully agree. Our differences are irreconcilable.

• They want open borders, and we don't.
• They want lax voting laws where it is easy to cheat; we don't.
• They want free stuff. Since we pay taxes, we don't.
• They push racism. We don't.
• They think that their irrational fear of COVID should cause everyone else to change their own behavior about which medical devices (masks) they should use or which injections they should submit to; we don't.
• They think Climate Change is an existential threat and we should all suffer the rest of our lives by curbing our Capitalistic lifestyles in order to address it; we don't.
• They want high energy prices to discourage use. We want to be energy independent again by being the world leader in oil production.
• They think that giving Iran a pathway to the bomb is okay; we don't.
• They think that biological males who identify as something else should be able to destroy the life-long dreams of women in sports with their larger heart, lungs, muscles, volume of blood, for the sake of political correctness; we don't.
• ...
• They think that Biden is tolerable.

The list goes on. We are a nation divided, reconciling these differences seems unlikely. Gotta vote and pray for a regime change like recently happened here in Virginia. May it happen all over in November.

 

[Flopper]

It's called looking at what's going on now, and how it got there. It's knowing a little about history. With all that in mind, then comes the decision making.

None of us on the right think Russia is without fault. But when you add up all that's going on:
1. NATO breaking agreements to not move east towards Russia.
2. Russia keeping Ukraine propped up with hundreds of billions of $$$.
3. Ukraine refusing to pay Russia back.
4. Ukraine calling in NATO, like it was a spoiled child.
5. All the sanctions being placed on Russia, just to protect Ukraine.
6. The corrupt government of Ukraine squandering the money that Russia, the USA and other countries gave them.

Then it all leads to Ukraine being responsible for Russia's aggression. They're getting tired of being played the fool.

This is like an argument with your wife. She calmly, but deliberately pushes your buttons, just to get you pissed off. On and on and on, until you finally had enough and raise your voice to her. Suddenly, it's your fault for raising your voice.

I don't know how true all your statement are but there is one inescapable truth. Putin has launched an invasion into Ukraine because NATO will not give him assurance that they will never expand into Ukraine. Did he really think he could extort such a commitment from NATO by threating invasion of a non-NATO country? I think the answer is No. It was just a pretense for invasion.

I believe Putin sees Ukraine as a stepping stone to rebuilding the Soviet Union and what better place to start than acquiring the Ukraine, the crown jewel of the Soviet Union. That might sound nuts but if you look at Putin's history and his inter circle which is made up of old die hard Soviets, then it does start to make sense. Also putting nuclear forces on alert is an old Soviet tactic to send a message to West that there will be serve consequences for any interference from the West.

 

[YoursTruly]

I don't know how true all your statement are but there is one inescapable truth. Putin has launched an invasion into Ukraine because NATO will not give him assurance that they will never expand into Ukraine. Did he really thing he could extort such a commitment from NATO by threating invasion of a non-NATO country? I think the answer is No. It is just a pretense for invasion.

I believe Putin sees Ukraine as a stepping stone to rebuilding the Soviet Union and what better place to start than acquiring the Ukraine, the crown jewel of the Soviet Union. That might sound nuts but if you look at Putin's history and his inter circle which is made up of old die hard Soviets, then it does start to make sense for him. Also putting nuclear forces on alert is an old Soviet tactic to send a message to West that there will be serve consequences for any interference from the West.

I don't totally dismiss that. I'm not on the "Putin train" as some have called it. There's obviously two (or 3 or 4 or 5) sides to anything political. And I doubt very seriously any of us will ever have security clearance enough to know all the factions involved. But from the outside in, It looks like Putin has the right to demand what he's owed, or take back Ukraine.

Here's a graph of how much financial aid they've received for "development assistance."

Ukraine - Net Official Development Assistance And Official Aid Received​

The Nuclear Alert thing is probably just a precautionary measure. Also, Putin is not a fan of communism. He is left leaning. But only moderately.

 

[AntonToo]

It's called looking at what's going on now, and how it got there. It's knowing a little about history. With all that in mind, then comes the decision making.

None of us on the right think Russia is without fault. But when you add up all that's going on:
1. NATO breaking agreements to not move east towards Russia.
2. Russia keeping Ukraine propped up with hundreds of billions of $$$.
3. Ukraine refusing to pay Russia back.
4. Ukraine calling in NATO, like it was a spoiled child.
5. All the sanctions being placed on Russia, just to protect Ukraine.
6. The corrupt government of Ukraine squandering the money that Russia, the USA and other countries gave them.

Then it all leads to Ukraine being responsible for Russia's aggression. They're getting tired of being played the fool.

This is like an argument with your wife. She calmly, but deliberately pushes your buttons, just to get you pissed off. On and on and on, until you finally had enough and raise your voice to her. Suddenly, it's your fault for raising your voice.

1. What agreement? NATO has always had open door policy.

I do however recall 1994 Budapest Memorandum in which Russia agreed to respect Ukranian borders in exchange for Ukraine giving up Nuclear weapons. Russians lied. Surprise!

2, 3, 4, 5 6 - Not a single one of those is an actual reason to start a fucking war in Ukraine. You look like a total idiot to even suggest that.

I don't know who brainwashed you with this Russian propaganda, but you should think twice (assuming you are not just a straight up Russian troll)

 

[YoursTruly]

The two main trains of thought is that Russia wants to stop Ukraine from joining NATO. Zelensky believes it's bullshit otherwise as a younger man, he could wait out Putin's death which by the looks of him, doesn't seem too far off. The other thought is that Putin knows he's ill and wants to go down in history as starting the reformulation of the Soviet Union. That seems more logical to me than NATO.

What Putin wasn't expecting is this world reaction he's getting plus disapproval from his very own people. This week will be very telling depending on what Putin does from this point on.

BP cutting ties with Russian oil and gas giant, Rosneft

Watch previously aired video for more about how sanctions on Russia will impact gas prices (WJW) — BP announced on Sunday that it’s cutting ties with Russian oil giant, Rosneft, after t…

fox8.com

Putin doesn't like communism. He bashed Lenin and Stalin. His political stance in the US would be only a moderate democrat.

 

[YoursTruly]

I don't think there anything Biden or any president could do to bring inflation down before the election. The sanctions both republican and democrats seem to support will certainly drive prices higher.

Especially when you throw in the fact that a lot of this inflation comes from all the spending that occurred during Obama & Trump. The market is going to correct itself, regardless of who's president.

With that said, Biden has done nothing to help. Only made it worse.

 

[AntonToo]

Putin doesn't like communism. He bashed Lenin and Stalin. His political stance in the US would be only a moderate democrat.

Nope, in US he would be same full of shit authoritarian he is in Russia.

 

[Flopper]

I don't totally dismiss that. I'm not on the "Putin train" as some have called it. There's obviously two (or 3 or 4 or 5) sides to anything political. And I doubt very seriously any of us will ever have security clearance enough to know all the factions involved. But from the outside in, It looks like Putin has the right to demand what he's owed, or take back Ukraine.

Here's a graph of how much financial aid they've received for "development assistance."

Ukraine - Net Official Development Assistance And Official Aid Received​

View attachment 608487

The Nuclear Alert thing is probably just a precautionary measure. Also, Putin is not a fan of communism. He is left leaning. But only moderately.

In the link below, I did not see any debt to Russia. They seem to owe money to just about everybody else. Anyway invading a company is not exactly the logical way to collect a debt.

Ukraine - national debt 2019-2029 | Statista

The national debt in Ukraine was forecast to continuously increase between 2024 and 2029 by in total 103.6 billion U.S.

www.statista.com

I based my statement about Putin on who he was before the collapse of the Soviet Union. After the collapse he embraced democratic government. If he did otherwise, there would have been no place for him in the new Russian government.

 

[YoursTruly]

In the link below, I did not see any debt to Russia. They seem to owe money to just about everybody else. Anyway invading a company is not exactly the logical way to collect a debt.

Ukraine - national debt 2019-2029 | Statista

The national debt in Ukraine was forecast to continuously increase between 2024 and 2029 by in total 103.6 billion U.S.

www.statista.com

Yeah, I don't think any of that would accessible to the general public. Russia and Ukraine both are pretty secretive about their finances. I'm still looking. I found one site, but it wanted me to pay for information. I wasn't sure I could get what I was looking for, so I didn't bother.

I based my statement about Putin on who he was before the collapse of the Soviet Union. After the collapse he embraced democratic government. If he did otherwise, there would have been no place for him in the new Russian government.

Yeltsin was the end of the old guard. Just my opinion. Yours may be different. I've seen nothing from Putin to make me think he wants Russia to return to communism. I'm sure he'd like his land back though.
Russia has an election coming up in 2024. We'll see if the people still want him. It's their choice.

 

[YoursTruly]

Nope, in US he would be same full of shit authoritarian he is in Russia.

Did CNN tell you that?