At this point, we know the differences are irreconcilable between libs and conservatives

[Donald H]

Well yes

But the powers that be wanted to reduce nuclear weapons so they promised security for ukraine

and much to our shame thanks to treachery by bill clinton that promise will not be kept

An interesting question concerning nukes.
If Putin uses a nuclear weapon on the Ukraine, would America become involved?
Or is Biden good to his word?

 

[Mac-7]

An interesting question concerning nukes.
If Putin uses a nuclear weapon on the Ukraine, would America become involved?
Or is Biden good to his word?

Putin is not going to use nukes against the ukraines

 

[Flopper]

The left are pulling out all the stops to shield biden from taking responsibility

they are desperate

The Ukraine is not the responsibility of this or any US president.

 

[Mac-7]

The Ukraine is not the responsibility of this or any US president.

I disagree

going back to bill clinton the US joined other free nations to guarantee their independence from russia

and that has not changed up to and including joe biden

 

[Flopper]

An interesting question concerning nukes.
If Putin uses a nuclear weapon on the Ukraine, would America become involved?
Or is Biden good to his word?

If you mean a direct military confrontation with the Russians, absolutely not. The Ukraine is not that important to us. It ranks 71st in the world in trade with the US. It's not a great strategic military asset. In fact, I don't see it as an ally. It is simply a country that the US has cordial relations and we would like to see their fledgling democracy develop.

BTW, it would be incredibly stupid for him use nuclear weapons to win a war he can easily win without them. He wants the Ukraine intact, not a pile of nuclear waste.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

that would be a provocation and an excuse for what is taking place right now

No, to no rational or ethical person would it be an excuse. It would be part of the explanation. Explanations are not excuses.

 

[Flopper]

I wouldn't call rebuilding the Soviet Union a good reason.

It is a a good reason for him. He's willing to committed over 150,000 troops to overthrow the Ukrainian government that has come to be thorn in his side similar to our actions in Iraq. Unlike the US Iraq fiasco, Ukraine has proven to be an any enemy on Russian boarder. The US responded to Cuba just 90 miles off our cost in a similar manner except it was a much smaller scale invasion and failed. I doubt Putin is going fail in the Ukraine. He is already got eastern sector and it only days bevor Kiev falls.

 

[Mac-7]

No, to no rational or ethical person would it be an excuse. It would be part of the explanation. Explanations are not excuses.

The russians would consider it an excuse

 

[Flopper]

I disagree

going back to bill clinton the US joined other free nations to guarantee their independence from russia

and that has not changed up to and including joe biden

No, exactly. The Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurance refers to only assurances, but it does not impose a legal obligation of military assistance by any parties, or any other assistance other than issuing a request for a meeting of notice consultation between the parties making it a political agreement but not a legal one because there is no specific requirements other than notifications of a request for consultation. Both the Clinton and Bush Admistraion rejected any military commitment to the Ukraine in the agreement and the United States has maintained the memorandum is political agreement with no legal commitment.

​

 

[Mac-7]

The Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurance refers to only assurances, but it does not impose a legal obligation of military assistance by any parties,

Thats like saying your marriage vows are not legally binding against adultery

the memorandum said that the signing parties would take action after indicting the invading country (russia) in the Security Council

but that was an empty promise because russia is still a permanent member of the security council with veto power

 

[Mac-7]

Ukraine gave up their nukes and are entitled to the world’s protection

 

[Flopper]

No, to no rational or ethical person would it be an excuse. It would be part of the explanation. Explanations are not excuses.

What Putin is doin is neither rational nor ethical for Russia. Who knows what Putin's agenda is. However, Russia does not have a lot to gain by taking over the Ukraine, a bombed out country with almost certain civil war in it's future guaranteeing a long term Russia military presence. Prior to invasion NATO could not agree on anything with continuing fighting over military commitments of the members. Now thanks to Putin, NATO will become far more consolidated and will certainly increase military commitments of members. Although Putin will most likely have great victory parade in Moscow, the nation is going suffer. China is only major nation that has not promised some sort of sanction on Russia.

 

[Flopper]

Thats like saying your marriage vows are not legally binding against adultery

the memorandum said that the signing parties would take action after indicting the invading country (russia) in the Security Council

but that was an empty promise because russia is still a permanent member of the security council with veto power

And if you read on the action is a request for meetings for consultation. However, outside of this agreement, the US has provide support for Ukraine military with shipments of weapons in 2009, 2014, 2017, and 2022.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It is a a good reason for him. He's willing to committed over 150,000 troops to overthrow the Ukrainian government that has come to be thorn in his side similar to our actions in Iraq. Unlike the US Iraq fiasco, Ukraine has proven to be an any enemy on Russian boarder. The US responded to Cuba just 90 miles off our cost in a similar manner except it was a much smaller scale invasion and failed. I doubt Putin is going fail in the Ukraine. He is already got eastern sector and it only days bevor Kiev falls.

He may not fail but it will cost his military dearly. And how is Ukraine any threat to Russia, by joining NATO which would only possibly assure them security against a Russian attack?

 

[Mac-7]

And if you read on the action is a request for meetings for consultation. However, outside of this agreement, the US has provide support for Ukraine military with shipments of weapons in 2009, 2014, 2017, and 2022.

Thats not enough

we have a moral obligation to defend them

and the shame of not doing so falls on every president from clinton to biden

if ukraine were a NATO member this would not be happening

or if ukraine were a neutral nation

but our inept and corrupt political establishment did neither

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

The Democrat Party has all of the characteristics of a political cult.
delusional
grandiose lying
fanatical
unreasonable
irrational
violent
absolutely corrupt
hive minds
coalition of fringe groups
demanding absolute obedience

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Thats not enough

we have a moral obligation to defend them

Yes but at a cost of possibly putting the US in another recession. Dementia cut off our own fuel supply and now we are dependent on Russia to keep the prices where they are now. Tough enough sanctions would lead to a reduction of oil output from Putin and we all know what that would do to this country.

Thus far it doesn't seem like Dementia cares either. He's made no move to bring us back to energy independence and even if he did, it would take some time before such a policy would have a large enough effect to stabilize or reduce our energy costs which by then, the Ukraine war would be over.

We sent in a checkers player to compete in a chess match. What have we done to ourselves?

 

[Mac-7]

Yes but at a cost of possibly putting the US in another recession. Dementia cut off our own fuel supply and now we are dependent on Russia to keep the prices where they are now. Tough enough sanctions would lead to a reduction of oil output from Putin and we all know what that would do to this country.

Thus far it doesn't seem like Dementia cares either. He's made no move to bring us back to energy independence and even if he did, it would take some time before such a policy would have a large enough effect to stabilize or reduce our energy costs which by then, the Ukraine war would be over.

We sent in a checkers player to compete in a chess match. What have we done to ourselves?

Put pressure on biden to allow more US oil production

and build more nuclear power plants

though that wont help in the short run it still needs to be done

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Put pressure on biden to allow more US oil production

and build more nuclear power plants

though that wont help in the short run it still needs to be done

I don't think that would happen. Since the election the goal of the Communists have been to do everything opposite Trump. That's why our border is a mess. That's why we have a labor shortage which of course led to the supply chain shortage. That's why we have the worst inflation in 40 years. Everything they do is anti-Trump.

How much does Dementia care? Well amid the start of this war, an indirect threat of potential nuclear weapon attacks by a nut that looks half dead already, a likely increase in energy costs, he went home for the weekend.

 

[Mac-7]

I don't think that would happen. Since the election the goal of the Communists have been to do everything opposite Trump. That's why our border is a mess. That's why we have a labor shortage which of course led to the supply chain shortage. That's why we have the worst inflation in 40 years. Everything they do is anti-Trump.

How much does Dementia care? Well amid the start of this war, an indirect threat of potential nuclear weapon attacks by a nut that looks half dead already, a likely increase in energy costs, he went home for the weekend.

I agree

libs will cut off their nose to spite their face

so under biden we will get higher gas prices and energy blackouts