Zone1 Atheism Has No Basis for the Idea of Good or Evil, Just or Unjust

[dblack]

Which means you only believe in what is material.

This is horseshit. I believe in all kinds of things that aren't "material" - love, justice, liberty, etc, etc.... I just don't believe in your god. Sorry, not sorry.

 

[dblack]

Sure, but how about a book that explains it instead?

The Socialist Phenomenon

I'm not a socialist.

But do you really need a book to tell you that a people who only believe in material existence are only concerned with the satisfaction of their material needs and primitive impulses? Isn't that self evident?

Nope.

 

[ding]

I can't care about your "success". It has nothing to do with the topic of the thread. Are you just bragging?

It was brought up because why would I change what is working for me. If you were successful in your career, family and personal relationships would you change what you are doing?

And if you aren't, shouldn't you consider changing what you are doing?

 

[ding]

This is horseshit. I believe in all kinds of things that aren't "material" - love, justice, liberty, etc, etc.... I just don't believe in your god. Sorry, not sorry.

Which according to atheism proceed from the material and are nothing more than electrochemical reactions in the brain to outside stimuli.

 

[dblack]

It was brought up because why would I change what is working for me.

I don't expect you to.

If you were successful in your career, family and personal relationships would you change what you are doing?

As I said, go for it. Just stop with trying to denigrate those of us who don't agree with you. Live and let live.

 

[ding]

I'm not a socialist.

Nope.

Maybe, but you are their dupe when you attempt to subordinate religion.

 

[dblack]

Which according to atheism proceed from the material and are nothing more than electrochemical reactions in the brain to outside stimuli.

Yep. Do you have point?

 

[ding]

I don't expect you to.

As I said, go for it. Just stop with trying to denigrate those of us who don't agree with you. Live and let live.

How am I denigrating you? You challenge my beliefs, right? Why can't I challenge yours?

 

[buttercup]

I've no issue with anyone's faith.

I know. I was talking about faith itself. When you disparage it like that, it seems that you're doing so to try to discredit it.

Don't get me wrong. We're all free to say what we want. My only point was that it's a logical fallacy, if it was stated in an attempt to discredit faith.

Exactly. That's why I''m not interested in chasing ding's links around just to placate his self-confirmation routine.

I'm not saying you're doing this, but IF you didn't click on his link simply because the source is Christian, then that's kind of another example of that same logical fallacy.

But whatever.... 'nuff about that.

Have you ever read the obituaries? I do al of the time. I dunno why. But something I've always observed is that everybody who does is said to be lookiing down on everyone from Heaven..and they're all smiling at us.

Yes, and I do agree with you on this one. It seems that every funeral I've ever gone to talks about how the person is in Heaven. I've seen that even at the funeral of an uncle of mine, who was a hard-core anti-Christian atheist.

 

[dblack]

Maybe, but you are their dupe when you attempt to subordinate religion.

And maybe you're a self-righteous twat, bent on controlling others.

 

[dblack]

How am I denigrating you? You challenge my beliefs, right? Why can't I challenge yours?

The topic of the thread suggests that people who don't believe in your god are amoral. Do you expect me to just accept that pronouncment?

 

[ding]

Yep. Do you have point?

Yes, I just made it. Atheism operates on the assumption that all there is is the material world and all that matters is the satisfaction of material needs and primitive impulses. That's all there is to life for an atheist. He has no greater purpose than to consume and to have pleasure and to avoid pain.

 

[presonorek]

CS Lewis on his conversion to Christianity. He says in Mere Christianity:

But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea
of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was
bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself
in such violent reaction against it? A man feels wet when he falls into water, because man is not a water
animal: a fish would not feel wet. Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was
nothing but a private idea of my own. But if I did that, then my argument against God collapsed too—
for the argument depended on saying that the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen
to please my private fancies. Thus in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist—in other words,
that the whole of reality was senseless—I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality—namely my
idea of justice—was full of sense.​

There are tons of rules in the Bible that aren't part of our society. Could we say that Christians fail at promoting the Bible's idea of right and wrong?

 

[ding]

And maybe you're a self-righteous twat, bent on controlling others.

That's a nice story but I am perfectly happy with you believing and doing whatever you want. We all get to experience the consequences of our actions, right? Good and bad, right?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Which means you only believe in what is material.

I understand the words. What you did not understand is the definition of "predicated".

 

[ding]

There are tons of rules in the Bible that aren't part of our society. Could we say that Christians fail at promoting the Bible's idea of right and wrong?

Sure, we are all flawed and broken on some level. Being perfect does not mean doing perfect things. It means to exist perfectly. The trick is to understand what that actually means.

 

[buttercup]

Irrelevant. Incidental. The government is not the religion. The religion is worshiping Kim. Not the government. You aren't going to put words in just the right order to make this not so.

I'm not disagreeing with you! I don't know why you keep arguing this.

Yes, their religion is their Dear Leaders. Kim and family.

Is it the word "government" that you're trying to protect?

Ok, fine. We don't have to use the word government.

 

[ding]

I understand the words. What you did not understand is the definition of "predicated".

If you say so.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Yes, their religion is their Dear Leaders. Kim and family.

Is it the word "government" that you're trying to protect?

No, and that's the first time you said it.

So we are in agreement. North Korea is the most religious country on the planet.

Great.

 

[dblack]

Yes, I just made it. Atheism operates on the assumption that all there is is the material world and all that matters is the satisfaction of material needs and primitive impulses. That's all there is to life for an atheist. He has no greater purpose than to consume and to have pleasure and to avoid pain.

Nope. That's just not true. I don't know what to tell you beyond that. Maybe listen to atheists and learn something new? You want to do that, right?