Zone1 Atheism Has No Basis for the Idea of Good or Evil, Just or Unjust

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If you say so.

Actually, I argued so. That's one difference between you and me.

 

[dblack]

That's a nice story but I am perfectly happy with you believing and doing whatever you want. We all get to experience the consequences of our actions, right? Good and bad, right?

Then why are you supporting a claim that atheists are immoral???

 

[ding]

The topic of the thread suggests that people who don't believe in your god are amoral. Do you expect me to just accept that pronouncment?

I don't expect anything from you or anyone else. I try avoiding to have preferences for outcomes. It's one of my secrets of success.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I don't expect anything from you or anyone else. I try avoiding to have preferences for outcomes. It's one of my secrets of success.

Or your failures, depending on the observer.

 

[ding]

Actually, I argued so. That's one difference between you and me.

That's nice.

 

[buttercup]

No, and that's the first time you said it.

So we are in agreement. North Korea is the most religious country on the planet.

Great.

Since human beings are not deities and have nothing to do with the creation of the universe, I think the word "religion" here is misapplied.

But I can see now why you want to call it "religious." And why you so vehemently want to protect the word Government.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Since human beings are not deities

Says you. And says me.

But a lot of Christians believe the human Jesus was a deity. And a lot of others think the same of Kim.

Surely you understand that this base contrarianism from us isn't relevant.

 

[ding]

Nope. That's just not true. I don't know what to tell you beyond that. Maybe listen to atheists and learn something new? You want to do that, right?

It is true. All you have is a material existence. Those feeling you have are just reactions in your brain. You are just another animal. No better or no worse. Your life is predicated on consumption, pleasure and avoiding pain. What else is there for a material being, right?

 

[presonorek]

Sure, we are all flawed and broken on some level. Being perfect does not mean doing perfect things. It means to exist perfectly. The trick is to understand what that actually means.

Maybe all modern nations should apply the first, third, and fourth commandments to their laws. That would be a start.

First commandment: Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Applicable modern law: It shall be a felony to worship any god other than Jehovah.
Punishment: 1-2 years for first offense. 3-10 years for second offense. Death Penalty for third offense.
Legal note: This would require changing the first amendment of the United States Constitution

Third Commandment: Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain.
Applicable modern law: It shall be a felony to speak negatively of Jehovah.
Punishment: 1-2 years for first offense. 3-10 years for second offense. Death Penalty for third offense.
Legal note: This would require changing the first amendment of the United States Constitution

Fourth Commandment: Remember the sabbath and keep it holy.
Applicable modern law: Anyone working on the sabbath or requiring an employee to work on the sabbath shall be guilty of a class 2 misdemeanor
Punishment: $2,500 fine for first offense. $5,000 fine for every offense thereafter.

Once we get agreement on these issues of right and wrong then we can address others.

 

[Natural Citizen]

I try avoiding to have preferences for outcomes.

No, you invoked ''the science''

That language is the very model of preference for outcome.

So that, unfortunately, illustrates your way of thinking.

It presupposes that you've got everything all figured out and that your conclusions are a body whole unto itself and therefore not open to contestation.

There's no such thing as ''the science.''

If there were, then we wouldn't need to ask any more questions about anything.

The very nature of science itself forbids such a contradiction of its practice.

It's one of my secrets of success.

But that hypocrisy is why you failed.

You see, buttercup?

That's my problem.

It has nothing to do with anyone's faith or even faith itself.

It's the shenanigans of misrepresentating the nature of science as a means of confirmation for one's identity and/or to coerce others into adopting one's view of what someone elses identity should be, except doing so from under the cloak of science.

Again. No such thing as ''the science.'' So it's just a very disingenuous representation of the nature of science to suit one's end, when judged morally. In my view anyway.

There are always more questions to be asked. Always. That's what science is. One doesn't have the luxury of wrapping it all up in a box and pretending that all of the questions are already answered just because they might feel that their confirmaton biases have been thoroughly served or because maybe they don't wanna hear the questions or because they think their faith is being attacked or because they're offended by them or whatever

 

[ding]

Then why are you supporting a claim that atheists are immoral???

To an atheist there's no such thing as moral or immoral. Just the satisfaction of material needs and primitive instincts. You should think of morals as preferences. Today you might prefer vanilla malts. Tomorrow you might prefer chocolate malts.

 

[ding]

No, you said ''the science''

That language is the very model of preference for outcome.

There's no such thing as ''the science.''

If there were, then we wouldn't need to ask any more questions about anything.

The very nature of science itself forbids such a contradiction.




But your hypocrisy is why you failed.

It would be great if you actually knew some science.

 

[ding]

Or your failures, depending on the observer.

Nothing wrong with failures as long as they aren't repeated. Experience is an effective teacher. We learn more from our mistakes than we do from our successes.

 

[presonorek]

Sure, we are all flawed and broken on some level. Being perfect does not mean doing perfect things. It means to exist perfectly. The trick is to understand what that actually means.

I forgot about the forgiveness laws that would arise if Christian principles were applied.

Applicable Modern Law: Anybody person guilty of any crime whether a felony or misdemeanor shall be forgiven and the judge should be mandated to say, "Go back to where you came from and don't commit anymore crimes."

Yeah. Let's use God's model for right and wrong instead of man's model of right and wrong. That could wipe out some of my old speeding tickets.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Maybe all modern nations should apply the first, third, and fourth commandments to their laws. That would be a start.

First commandment: Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Applicable modern law: It shall be a felony to worship any god other than Jehovah.
Punishment: 1-2 years for first offense. 3-10 years for second offense. Death Penalty for third offense.
Legal note: This would require changing the first amendment of the United States Constitution

Third Commandment: Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain.
Applicable modern law: It shall be a felony to speak negatively of Jehovah.
Punishment: 1-2 years for first offense. 3-10 years for second offense. Death Penalty for third offense.
Legal note: This would require changing the first amendment of the United States Constitution

Fourth Commandment: Remember the sabbath and keep it holy.
Applicable modern law: Anyone working on the sabbath or requiring an employee to work on the sabbath shall be guilty of a class 2 misdemeanor
Punishment: $2,500 fine for first offense. $5,000 fine for every offense thereafter.

Once we get agreement on these issues of right and wrong then we can address others.

Good stuff...

 

[dblack]

It is true. All you have is a material existence. Those feeling you have are just reactions in your brain. You are just another animal. No better or no worse.

Ok.

Your life is predicated on consumption, pleasure and avoiding pain.

Unfounded claim. Prove it or shut your trap.

What else is there for a material being, right?

I'm a material being. That doesn't preclude non-material things.

I'm also a software developer. Software is information, ideas, algorithms, data. None of it is "material", but it's real. Ideas are real. Your strawman claims that anyone who fails to believe in your god is a strict materialist, and it's utterly unfounded. But "unfounded" seems to be your thing.

 

[ding]

Maybe all modern nations should apply the first, third, and fourth commandments to their laws. That would be a start.

First commandment: Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Applicable modern law: It shall be a felony to worship any god other than Jehovah.
Punishment: 1-2 years for first offense. 3-10 years for second offense. Death Penalty for third offense.
Legal note: This would require changing the first amendment of the United States Constitution

Third Commandment: Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain.
Applicable modern law: It shall be a felony to speak negatively of Jehovah.
Punishment: 1-2 years for first offense. 3-10 years for second offense. Death Penalty for third offense.
Legal note: This would require changing the first amendment of the United States Constitution

Fourth Commandment: Remember the sabbath and keep it holy.
Applicable modern law: Anyone working on the sabbath or requiring an employee to work on the sabbath shall be guilty of a class 2 misdemeanor
Punishment: $2,500 fine for first offense. $5,000 fine for every offense thereafter.

Once we get agreement on these issues of right and wrong then we can address others.

I'm more of a spirit of the law (aka natural law) than I am of the letter of the law (aka legal positivism) kind of guy.

The more a society deteriorates, the more laws they write.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The more a society deteriorates, the more laws they write.

Well that might be the dumbest thing I will read all day.

 

[ding]

Unfounded claim. Prove it or shut your trap.

What else is there for you?

 

[ding]

Well that might be the dumbest thing I will read all day.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the first person to pen that. Maybe you should check.