Atheism takes courage

[hobelim]

In scripture the authors often did not mention that the eyewitness account of one thing or another was the eyewitness account of what was seen and heard during a dream like the transfiguration, when Abraham ate lunch with angels, ezekiel flew through the air from Babylon to Jerusalem with an angel holding him by the hair, or when Thomas stuck his finger in his wounds, Jesus popped in and out of a locked room, or floated up into the sky....

They probably assumed that the rational and intelligent reader would know that such things do not happen in actual reality..the superstitious would be diverted by their superstition, keeping the hidden teaching safe from perversion or repression by remaining above the grasp of any irrational enemies who would ironically preserve them mistaking scripture as a validation of their superstitions instead of the eventual cause of their undoing...

I have not come to bring peace but a sword, from his mouth there went a sharp sword, with which to smite the nations and all that...


Apparently, it still works like a charm.

So, basically the entire Bible is metaphor, hyperbole, and allegory. How convenient. This means that with a little imagination, I can make the Bible mean whatever i want it to. But, it's absolutely the truth, and should be taken seriously...

No, that does not mean that scripture can mean whatever you may want it to. Reality itself that you like to remind people about is a reliable and constant constraint on any given possible interpretation.

When Jesus said "Eat my flesh" there is only one way to interpret that that doesn't make him out to be insane.

When a nameless character in scripture says," How can he give us his flesh to eat?" it is a challenge for the intelligent reader to figure it out.

Yes, many scriptures take a good study to understand not only its interpretation ,but the laws and ways of doing things were different than our back then..

Eating a symbol of Jesus is to remind the conscious of what He did for us.


.

what do you believe that Jesus did?

Jesus was betrayed by one of His disciples , He was humiliated, tortured and died the most horrendous death so that the bridge from human to God can happen by the ultimate sacrifice of sheding His blood so that we can live eternally .. Before this man was sinful and dirty in Gods eyes..

Jesus knew that he would be betrayed and the night before is what they call The Last Supper. Jesus then explained to His disciples that eating the bread is His body, while the wine was His blood..

.

Yes, I can agree with all of that in principle but in what way did Jesus make the way to eternal life clear if not by sharing the teaching that he received from God like manna that came down from heaven and became his flesh, a body of teaching, about the figurative nature of the words and hidden subjects of the law that are not necessarily directly connected to the literal meaning of the words used..

If complying with the law leads to eternal life and life is in the blood then it follows that to drink the blood of Jesus is to conform to the law in the same way that Jesus did to receive the promise of eternal life fulfilled by God.

to eat his flesh is to receive his teaching, to drink his blood is to do it.


It is interesting to note that in the gospel according to John the only talk about flesh and blood was before the last supper but during the last supper the only person that Jesus gave a piece of bread dipped in wine to was Judas....as a way for Jesus to identify his betrayer and fake believer to his trusted friends..


Might be a good idea to reconsider dicking around with bread and wine..

 

[hobelim]

According to whom, and by what authority?

I am Keystone in the Yahad of God; the habitation of light.

lol... only kidding..

By the authority of a functioning brain according to anyone who has the mental acuity to figure out the complicated and deep mystery of the meaning of a talking serpent.

If you want to argue science to disprove what scripture is not about with people who don't know what its about any better than you, just go right ahead...


I'll just pull up a chair with a few friends, have some drinks, laugh my ass off and enjoy the show...

"By the authority of a functioning brain according to anyone who has the mental acuity to figure out the complicated and deep mystery of the meaning of a talking serpent."

You keep making this same terrible argument. If it were one tenth as compelling as it is snarky, specious, and meaningless, you might have something there. But it ain't, and you don't.

lol... was I being snarky?

It is a valid argument. any given sentence written in scripture has only a very limited possible number of interpretations as does any given word used have only a finite number of possible literal or figurative definitions.

It is easy to dismiss out of hand any opinion that does not conform to well know facts about reality as does any opinion that does not demonstrate truth and wisdom by its expression that edifies not stupefies and is clear and easy enough for a bronze age child to see and understand, not vague convoluted or rarified.

That approach invariably leaves only one possible truth remaining.

Your position that there are infinite opinions and no one can differentiate between what is possible or impossible to be the truth in no way conceals your cowardice to take a stand on what the truth might be.

At least believers have a set, even if they are mistaken in how they believe and what they consequently do...

what is it? too much trouble to think rationally about the subject? afraid your head will explode?

Isn't dismissing the whole damn thing without thinking deeply about it just as lazy and disgraceful as just believing the whole damn thing without thinking deeply about it?

If you are trying to pass yourself off as more rational than believers, you are going to have to do better than that...

sheesh.

 

[Avatar4321]

I wish I could simply "turn off" my rational mind. Imagine how much easier life is for those who can, so easily, simply ignore all of the rational, logical flaws inherent in their faith. Life would be so much easier if I could just ignore that I know what I know, and pretend that there is a "happily ever after" that no one has ever confirmed.

Turning off a rational mind requires one to begin with.

Atheism is, by definition, irrational.

 

[hobelim]

I wish I could simply "turn off" my rational mind. Imagine how much easier life is for those who can, so easily, simply ignore all of the rational, logical flaws inherent in their faith. Life would be so much easier if I could just ignore that I know what I know, and pretend that there is a "happily ever after" that no one has ever confirmed.

I doubt that you would wish that.

Even those who try can't escape the unspeakable torment of perpetuating beliefs that even they consciously know are contradicted by reality every day and night which is like being bound and gagged by pretense and then thrown alive into a lake of fire that will never go out, any rational thoughts that continue to arise in their own mind, their own thoughts, pierce and wound like the cruel and merciless pitchfork of a devil as they go about their daily business trying to smile and act like they are saved..

Sure sounds like hell to me...

 

[hobelim]

to eat his flesh is to receive his teaching, to drink his blood is to do it.

This is the only way that Jesus can be in anyone and with anyone and the only way that they can be in him and with him. By giving and receiving the same Body of teaching that came from God into the world through Jesus.

Through him, in him, and with him; one way, one truth, and one life..

Capisce?

 

[Slyhunter]

I wish I could simply "turn off" my rational mind. Imagine how much easier life is for those who can, so easily, simply ignore all of the rational, logical flaws inherent in their faith. Life would be so much easier if I could just ignore that I know what I know, and pretend that there is a "happily ever after" that no one has ever confirmed.

Turning off a rational mind requires one to begin with.

Atheism is, by definition, irrational.

link.
You are full of crap sir.
Statements like that are irrational.

 

[Czernobog]

I wish I could simply "turn off" my rational mind. Imagine how much easier life is for those who can, so easily, simply ignore all of the rational, logical flaws inherent in their faith. Life would be so much easier if I could just ignore that I know what I know, and pretend that there is a "happily ever after" that no one has ever confirmed.

Turning off a rational mind requires one to begin with.

Atheism is, by definition, irrational.

Oh for fuck's sake! I swear theists all have the same "Response Tree" that they share:

One more time, for the cheap seats. The guy who believes in an invisible Magic Sky Man, with no objective evidence whatsoever, has no business suggesting anyone is irrational.

 

[keepitreal]

A way out of WHAT exactly? How about this God critter just leaves me alone? I didn't ask for him to create me. I will not worship something that places his own creations into a fire pit for "punishment." I think it is wrong and evil. That doesn't describe anything that I would ever consider "good."

God is not sending to Hell. YOU are! You are the one who sinned. You are the one who is rejecting a gift, bought at a terrible price. Quit blaming God. It's like blaming Bush. YOU are responsible for where you spend eternity. No one else.

God is not sending to Hell. YOU are! You are the one who sinned. You are the one who is rejecting a gift, bought at a terrible price. Quit blaming God. It's like blaming Bush. YOU are responsible for where you spend eternity. No one else.

You know, that type of response
doesn't draw people to God, it pushes them farther away

First of all, her argument, reasoning, is valid...
your response was totally out of line and improper

What was the point of telling her
to quit blaming God...SHE'S sending herself to hell
SHE'S the one who sinned...SHE is rejecting Jesus
SHE is responsible for where she spends eternity

Why would she blame God, if she doesn't believe in Him?

Why would a loving and merciful God, create hell?

Why would she differentiate sin from right and wrong?

How could she accept a wonderful gift,
and realize the price it cost,
if she does not know Who gave it to her?

How is she, alone, responsible for
where she spends eternity, if it is dependent on
who is watering the seed that was obviously planted?

You're in for a rude awakening.

And that is exactly why you are going to Hell. The sin of pride. You have sinned. Everyone has.

No, you're in for a rude awakening,
if you keep telling people they are going to hell!

You have no idea what God is doing in her life
or the road He paved for her to find Him!

If I were you, I'd stop focusing on
the relationship she doesn't have with Him,
and focus on the relationship you think you have with Him!

Please try to stay on topic. Better yet, I'll just ignore you. How's that?

Better still, stop preaching...
telling her she's going to hell, then, you'll just ignore her...

Believing in God is not enough!
You are too wise in your own eyes!

Too wise? because finally someone cut through the toxic bs. Christians aren't responsible for turning people away or bringing people to God. God brings you to him. We turn away.
"Let the dead bury the dead" One of the kindest Christians Ive ever known said that about me one time and it was more than true.

Btw, narcissistic/manipulative back and forth on a political forum is a bit different than genuine soul searching.

Too wise?

Yes, both of you...too wise in your own eyes!

because finally someone cut through the toxic bs.

no, because once again, someone cut to the chase,
and spewed off their toxic bs.

The blind trying to lead the blind

Christians aren't responsible for turning people away or bringing people to God. God brings you to him. We turn away.

Wow...really now

Read all of Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, then tell me that

"Let the dead bury the dead" One of the kindest Christians Ive ever known said that about me one time and it was more than true.

Maybe it still is

Btw, narcissistic/manipulative back and forth on a political forum is a bit different than genuine soul searching.

FYI...God is in control and uses it for His glory
You're judging the carnal, not discerning the Spirit

You don't know whose taking what, from what they're reading
and thirsty enough to seek, ask & knock elsewhere!

Stop trying to feed people solid food,
when, you yourself, are still drinking milk!

...and who are you...Im human, not a saint and I mess up quite often. Its just really hard to watch scum parade around when they did stuff behind the scenes that would make anyone's skin crawl.. Second and in regards to your "wow" statement. Im referring to the types who have a history of interjecting themselves into these conversations only to disrupt.
I wasn't trying to be "wise" and I do hear what you're saying about turning people away.
Yes God is in control...but he doesn't need anymore hypocritical Christians.( Im not talking about anyone on that thread)
If you reread it and have no bias, that conversation was pretty balanced and it wasn't done on purpose.

btw I'm drinking coffee not milk & I don't try to feed people anything. This is the only board that posts pics and has word-games and I find it fun. I only commented because someones post sounded really sincere and it seemed they are dealing with a lot.

~Saving grace is a free gift but it doesn't include molly coddling sin.~

...and who are you...Im human, not a saint and I mess up quite often.

I'm human too...definitely not a saint
and mess up quite often myself

Its just really hard to watch scum parade around when they did stuff behind the scenes that would make anyone's skin crawl

I really have no clue what you are talking about

Second and in regards to your "wow" statement. Im referring to the types who have a history of interjecting themselves into these conversations only to disrupt.

What?...you said

Christians aren't responsible for turning people away or bringing people to God. God brings you to him. We turn away.

What you stated above
has absolutely nothing to do with
the explanation you're providing now

Yes God is in control...but he doesn't need anymore hypocritical Christians.( Im not talking about anyone on that thread)

Christians are hypocritical...isn't it really,
people, who profess to be Christian, are hypocritical

For me, being a Christian is a lifestyle.
Believing in God and living a life,
which reflects God, are two different things.

 

[keepitreal]

You seem to think that a christian is less intelligent than a atheist..

No. I don't think that Christians are less intelligent that Atheists. Nor Muslims, Hindus, or any other, otherwise intelligent person, who, for reasons that boggle my mind, wilfully choose to ignore reason in favour of fantasy, mythology, and superstition.

Ask most Christians if they are afraid of Friday the 13th, or if they avoid walking under ladders, or if they get skitchy around black cats, and they look at you as if you are a moron, and they are shocked that you had the mental capacity to tie your own shoes that morning. Ask them if they left a cup of milk out for the gmoes, so they wouldn't break in at night to break their things, or if they had ever seen the Troll living under the bridge, or if the Elves had come to visit on a full moon, and they will wonder to themselves if they should be calling someone to fit you for one of those nice, self-hugging jackets.

Yet, these same rational, reasonable people, somehow, manage to turn off their reason, and buy in, whole hog, to the irrational idea that there is some magic, invisible Sky Man that made us, the planet, and the whole universe, without a single shred of objective, observable, verifiable evidence to support such an idea. It makes my head hurt.

After thought.. really pay attention to this because this may answer your question.

we have 2 significant parts of our brain... the Conscious part which talks to the Sub-Conscious to either quite down a behavior or continue a behavior by our outside influences..
Outside influences means what we feed our conscious on a daily basis.

Your decisions are made in your sub-conscious before your conscious even knows it.. ( link a few post back on how this is scientifically proven )

Your Sub-conscious is on while you sleep, and when you wake up your conscious turns off the autopilot and takes over.

I do feel that our un-conscious brain connects to God and our spirit , this is why many stories in the bible have God coming to them in a dream. Or people wake up from a family member saying they are ok after dying, or a person wakes up person can dream of their future and what they need to do.



When we wake up our conscious takes over and evaluates your surroundings ..this is why you forget dreams.

I honestly do believe people who have faith are connected with the sub-conscious by the stimuli of their experiences and studies.. .
While I do believe and atheist stays mostly in the conscious mode making decisions with what they see in front of them..


I can almost guarantee that this is what goes on..


.

You know, it's interesting that you should mention the subconscious, because the subconscious is also responsible for nearly all magical thinking, such as Wade Boggs believing that the reason his batting average was so good because he ate chicken before every game. "There are many layers of belief," psychologist Carol Nemeroff says. "And the answer for many people, especially with regard to magic, is, 'Most of me doesn't believe but some of me does.'" People will often acknowledge their gut reaction and say it makes no sense to act on it—but do it anyway. Other times, they'll incorporate superstition into their worldview alongside other explanations. "For example," says Susan Gelman, a psychologist at the University of Michigan, "God puts you in the path of an HIV-positive lover, but biology causes you to contract the virus from his semen."

So, the question still remains, if one is rational enough to recognise the fantasy of superstitions, which also have their root in our subconscious, why are they incapable of recognising the equally irrational basis of God mythologies?

Our believe system is in our Conscious, not our Subconscious ... We do not have any control of the Subconscious But... like an addict who needs to change his/her Conscious influences to keep the Subconscious calmed down..
For instance:
Because addiction changes the brain forever. Many people are shocked to find themselves relapse, the Subconscious already made that decision because of not using the tools for sobriety in the Conscious.

Believes like superstition , magic, and a higher power, faith is a conscious decision..


.

Our believe system is in our Conscious, not our Subconscious ... We do not have any control of the Subconscious

We most certainly do have control of our subconscious!
What one believes is a conscious choice
because of our subconscious

like an addict who needs to change his/her Conscious influences to keep the Subconscious calmed down..

An addict need only to make up their mind,
they are done with drugs and the rest falls into place.
Avoiding people, places and things,
doesn't change what an addict dwells on,
unless they are committed to staying clean

Many people are shocked to find themselves relapse, the Subconscious already made that decision because of not using the tools for sobriety in the Conscious.

ROFLMMFAO... omg, you've gotta be kidding me
Addicts aren't shocked... that's typical addictive behavior
being manipulative...coming up with excuses, reasons

What the mind dwells on, the body acts on

An addict dwells on getting high
and chooses to do so....

An addict chooses to stay clean,
and isn't dwelling on drugs, or people or places
or anything else associated with his habit.

Relapse is a crutch...12 steps are bullshit, hogwash!

 

[Eaglewings]

You do get that those are two separate functions for which there is no evidence of connection, right?

What are you talking about / Of course the 2 connect, and it will be easy to show you scientific evidence. .
Explain what you meant.

 

[Eaglewings]

You seem to think that a christian is less intelligent than a atheist..

No. I don't think that Christians are less intelligent that Atheists. Nor Muslims, Hindus, or any other, otherwise intelligent person, who, for reasons that boggle my mind, wilfully choose to ignore reason in favour of fantasy, mythology, and superstition.

Ask most Christians if they are afraid of Friday the 13th, or if they avoid walking under ladders, or if they get skitchy around black cats, and they look at you as if you are a moron, and they are shocked that you had the mental capacity to tie your own shoes that morning. Ask them if they left a cup of milk out for the gmoes, so they wouldn't break in at night to break their things, or if they had ever seen the Troll living under the bridge, or if the Elves had come to visit on a full moon, and they will wonder to themselves if they should be calling someone to fit you for one of those nice, self-hugging jackets.

Yet, these same rational, reasonable people, somehow, manage to turn off their reason, and buy in, whole hog, to the irrational idea that there is some magic, invisible Sky Man that made us, the planet, and the whole universe, without a single shred of objective, observable, verifiable evidence to support such an idea. It makes my head hurt.

After thought.. really pay attention to this because this may answer your question.

we have 2 significant parts of our brain... the Conscious part which talks to the Sub-Conscious to either quite down a behavior or continue a behavior by our outside influences..
Outside influences means what we feed our conscious on a daily basis.

Your decisions are made in your sub-conscious before your conscious even knows it.. ( link a few post back on how this is scientifically proven )

Your Sub-conscious is on while you sleep, and when you wake up your conscious turns off the autopilot and takes over.

I do feel that our un-conscious brain connects to God and our spirit , this is why many stories in the bible have God coming to them in a dream. Or people wake up from a family member saying they are ok after dying, or a person wakes up person can dream of their future and what they need to do.



When we wake up our conscious takes over and evaluates your surroundings ..this is why you forget dreams.

I honestly do believe people who have faith are connected with the sub-conscious by the stimuli of their experiences and studies.. .
While I do believe and atheist stays mostly in the conscious mode making decisions with what they see in front of them..


I can almost guarantee that this is what goes on..


.

You know, it's interesting that you should mention the subconscious, because the subconscious is also responsible for nearly all magical thinking, such as Wade Boggs believing that the reason his batting average was so good because he ate chicken before every game. "There are many layers of belief," psychologist Carol Nemeroff says. "And the answer for many people, especially with regard to magic, is, 'Most of me doesn't believe but some of me does.'" People will often acknowledge their gut reaction and say it makes no sense to act on it—but do it anyway. Other times, they'll incorporate superstition into their worldview alongside other explanations. "For example," says Susan Gelman, a psychologist at the University of Michigan, "God puts you in the path of an HIV-positive lover, but biology causes you to contract the virus from his semen."

So, the question still remains, if one is rational enough to recognise the fantasy of superstitions, which also have their root in our subconscious, why are they incapable of recognising the equally irrational basis of God mythologies?

Our believe system is in our Conscious, not our Subconscious ... We do not have any control of the Subconscious But... like an addict who needs to change his/her Conscious influences to keep the Subconscious calmed down..
For instance:
Because addiction changes the brain forever. Many people are shocked to find themselves relapse, the Subconscious already made that decision because of not using the tools for sobriety in the Conscious.

Believes like superstition , magic, and a higher power, faith is a conscious decision..


.

Our believe system is in our Conscious, not our Subconscious ... We do not have any control of the Subconscious

We most certainly do have control of our subconscious!
What one believes is a conscious choice
because of our subconscious

like an addict who needs to change his/her Conscious influences to keep the Subconscious calmed down..

An addict need only to make up their mind,
they are done with drugs and the rest falls into place.
Avoiding people, places and things,
doesn't change what an addict dwells on,
unless they are committed to staying clean

Many people are shocked to find themselves relapse, the Subconscious already made that decision because of not using the tools for sobriety in the Conscious.

ROFLMMFAO... omg, you've gotta be kidding me
Addicts aren't shocked... that's typical addictive behavior
being manipulative...coming up with excuses, reasons

What the mind dwells on, the body acts on

An addict dwells on getting high
and chooses to do so....

An addict chooses to stay clean,
and isn't dwelling on drugs, or people or places
or anything else associated with his habit.

Relapse is a crutch...12 steps are bullshit, hogwash!

EH HELLO~ Everything I said is backed up by science you moron. And I am state licensed in this field..

But I meant if a addict who has been clean for years can be surprised to find they relapsed

Give me a link to show me that we have control over OUR subconscious..this outta be good..


.

 

[Eaglewings]

After thought.. really pay attention to this because this may answer your question.

we have 2 significant parts of our brain... the Conscious part which talks to the Sub-Conscious to either quite down a behavior or continue a behavior by our outside influences..
Outside influences means what we feed our conscious on a daily basis.

Your decisions are made in your sub-conscious before your conscious even knows it.. ( link a few post back on how this is scientifically proven )

Your Sub-conscious is on while you sleep, and when you wake up your conscious turns off the autopilot and takes over.

I do feel that our un-conscious brain connects to God and our spirit , this is why many stories in the bible have God coming to them in a dream. Or people wake up from a family member saying they are ok after dying, or a person wakes up person can dream of their future and what they need to do.



When we wake up our conscious takes over and evaluates your surroundings ..this is why you forget dreams.

I honestly do believe people who have faith are connected with the sub-conscious by the stimuli of their experiences and studies.. .
While I do believe and atheist stays mostly in the conscious mode making decisions with what they see in front of them..


I can almost guarantee that this is what goes on..


.

You know, it's interesting that you should mention the subconscious, because the subconscious is also responsible for nearly all magical thinking, such as Wade Boggs believing that the reason his batting average was so good because he ate chicken before every game. "There are many layers of belief," psychologist Carol Nemeroff says. "And the answer for many people, especially with regard to magic, is, 'Most of me doesn't believe but some of me does.'" People will often acknowledge their gut reaction and say it makes no sense to act on it—but do it anyway. Other times, they'll incorporate superstition into their worldview alongside other explanations. "For example," says Susan Gelman, a psychologist at the University of Michigan, "God puts you in the path of an HIV-positive lover, but biology causes you to contract the virus from his semen."

So, the question still remains, if one is rational enough to recognise the fantasy of superstitions, which also have their root in our subconscious, why are they incapable of recognising the equally irrational basis of God mythologies?

Our believe system is in our Conscious, not our Subconscious ... We do not have any control of the Subconscious But... like an addict who needs to change his/her Conscious influences to keep the Subconscious calmed down..
For instance:
Because addiction changes the brain forever. Many people are shocked to find themselves relapse, the Subconscious already made that decision because of not using the tools for sobriety in the Conscious.

Believes like superstition , magic, and a higher power, faith is a conscious decision..


.

Yeah. That is what I have been saying it is the conscious, wilful decision to ignore reason, and rational thought, and choose, instead, to follow magical thinking, and wish fulfilment. That is why i find it so incomprehensible in, otherwise, intelligent, rational people. I mean, to a point I get it. In children it is encouraged, and reinforced by established religion. However, children eventually grow up. They are introduced to science, and critical thinking. They are introduced to the scientific method, and the understanding of objective reality. So, there comes a point when the indoctrination of childhood ceases to be a valid excuse for rational, intelligent people to wilfully ignore what they know to be reason.

A reminder that I told you dreams are from the Subconscious, you wake up and the Conscious takes over.

Sleeping is when healing takes place in the body..

You do get that those are two separate functions for which there is no evidence of connection, right?

I can't stand to see a kid waving the bible saying that God hates gays or similar.

My boys did go to a preschool where they were introduced to Christ, not crammed down their throats..

Interesting that you equate indoctrination with "crammed down one's throat". That being said, actually it was. You say they went to a pre-school where they were "introduced to Christ". Did they have an alternative? And, were they old enough to know they had an alternative, even if they did. You make this statement, as if you do not understand that "introducing" a three- or four-year-old to religion is indoctrination.

Right give a 4 year old a choice...haaaa

My focus was on teaching my boys a bit more on strong morals in a classroom setting and the schools around here are too jammed with kids to really give them the one on one for that.

.

 

[Czernobog]

You do get that those are two separate functions for which there is no evidence of connection, right?

What are you talking about / Of course the 2 connect, and it will be easy to show you scientific evidence. .
Explain what you meant.

Oh, please link me to scientific objective evidence that the process of dreaming is connected to healing.

 

[featherlite]

God is not sending to Hell. YOU are! You are the one who sinned. You are the one who is rejecting a gift, bought at a terrible price. Quit blaming God. It's like blaming Bush. YOU are responsible for where you spend eternity. No one else.

God is not sending to Hell. YOU are! You are the one who sinned. You are the one who is rejecting a gift, bought at a terrible price. Quit blaming God. It's like blaming Bush. YOU are responsible for where you spend eternity. No one else.

You know, that type of response
doesn't draw people to God, it pushes them farther away

First of all, her argument, reasoning, is valid...
your response was totally out of line and improper

What was the point of telling her
to quit blaming God...SHE'S sending herself to hell
SHE'S the one who sinned...SHE is rejecting Jesus
SHE is responsible for where she spends eternity

Why would she blame God, if she doesn't believe in Him?

Why would a loving and merciful God, create hell?

Why would she differentiate sin from right and wrong?

How could she accept a wonderful gift,
and realize the price it cost,
if she does not know Who gave it to her?

How is she, alone, responsible for
where she spends eternity, if it is dependent on
who is watering the seed that was obviously planted?

You're in for a rude awakening.

And that is exactly why you are going to Hell. The sin of pride. You have sinned. Everyone has.

No, you're in for a rude awakening,
if you keep telling people they are going to hell!

You have no idea what God is doing in her life
or the road He paved for her to find Him!

If I were you, I'd stop focusing on
the relationship she doesn't have with Him,
and focus on the relationship you think you have with Him!

Please try to stay on topic. Better yet, I'll just ignore you. How's that?

Better still, stop preaching...
telling her she's going to hell, then, you'll just ignore her...

Believing in God is not enough!
You are too wise in your own eyes!

Too wise? because finally someone cut through the toxic bs. Christians aren't responsible for turning people away or bringing people to God. God brings you to him. We turn away.
"Let the dead bury the dead" One of the kindest Christians Ive ever known said that about me one time and it was more than true.

Btw, narcissistic/manipulative back and forth on a political forum is a bit different than genuine soul searching.

Too wise?

Yes, both of you...too wise in your own eyes!

because finally someone cut through the toxic bs.

no, because once again, someone cut to the chase,
and spewed off their toxic bs.

The blind trying to lead the blind

Christians aren't responsible for turning people away or bringing people to God. God brings you to him. We turn away.

Wow...really now

Read all of Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, then tell me that

"Let the dead bury the dead" One of the kindest Christians Ive ever known said that about me one time and it was more than true.

Maybe it still is

Btw, narcissistic/manipulative back and forth on a political forum is a bit different than genuine soul searching.

FYI...God is in control and uses it for His glory
You're judging the carnal, not discerning the Spirit

You don't know whose taking what, from what they're reading
and thirsty enough to seek, ask & knock elsewhere!

Stop trying to feed people solid food,
when, you yourself, are still drinking milk!

...and who are you...Im human, not a saint and I mess up quite often. Its just really hard to watch scum parade around when they did stuff behind the scenes that would make anyone's skin crawl.. Second and in regards to your "wow" statement. Im referring to the types who have a history of interjecting themselves into these conversations only to disrupt.
I wasn't trying to be "wise" and I do hear what you're saying about turning people away.
Yes God is in control...but he doesn't need anymore hypocritical Christians.( Im not talking about anyone on that thread)
If you reread it and have no bias, that conversation was pretty balanced and it wasn't done on purpose.

btw I'm drinking coffee not milk & I don't try to feed people anything. This is the only board that posts pics and has word-games and I find it fun. I only commented because someones post sounded really sincere and it seemed they are dealing with a lot.

~Saving grace is a free gift but it doesn't include molly coddling sin.~

...and who are you...Im human, not a saint and I mess up quite often.

I'm human too...definitely not a saint
and mess up quite often myself

Its just really hard to watch scum parade around when they did stuff behind the scenes that would make anyone's skin crawl

I really have no clue what you are talking about

Second and in regards to your "wow" statement. Im referring to the types who have a history of interjecting themselves into these conversations only to disrupt.

What?...you said

Christians aren't responsible for turning people away or bringing people to God. God brings you to him. We turn away.

What you stated above
has absolutely nothing to do with
the explanation you're providing now

Yes God is in control...but he doesn't need anymore hypocritical Christians.( Im not talking about anyone on that thread)

If you have no idea what Im talking about then maybe its you who is wise in your own eyes.
Ultimately Christians arent responsible for turning people away. If we are responsible for someones salvation, then we as humans can take it away also.


"Christians are hypocritical...isn't it really,
people, who profess to be Christian, are hypocritical"

I said God doesn't need more hypocritical Christians, you just felt the need to reword it. The meaning is the same.

 

[Czernobog]

Interesting that you equate indoctrination with "crammed down one's throat". That being said, actually it was. You say they went to a pre-school where they were "introduced to Christ". Did they have an alternative? And, were they old enough to know they had an alternative, even if they did. You make this statement, as if you do not understand that "introducing" a three- or four-year-old to religion is indoctrination.

Right give a 4 year old a choice...haaaa

So you lied when you said it wasn't crammed down their throats. You forced indoctrination into Christian mythology on your preschool children. That is the very definition of "crammed down their throats".

My focus was on teaching my boys a bit more on strong morals in a classroom setting and the schools around here are too jammed with kids to really give them the one on one for that.

That all sounds innocuous. Right up until you link that to your Introducing them to Christ. Then it isn't just teaching them morals, ethics, and critical thinking. It is indoctrinating them into Christianity, and your moral code based on that model.

You see, I taught my son how to think, how to reason, how to make choices, and accept the responsibility for those choices. That is teaching morals. The very first lesson my son learned was, "Choices have consequences," This is a lesson he has remembered to this day. So, whenever faced with a moral choice, he knows to examine the choice, and try to see the consequences - both intended, and unintended - that may result from either choice, and make a rational decision about how to behave.

 

[featherlite]

Interesting that you equate indoctrination with "crammed down one's throat". That being said, actually it was. You say they went to a pre-school where they were "introduced to Christ". Did they have an alternative? And, were they old enough to know they had an alternative, even if they did. You make this statement, as if you do not understand that "introducing" a three- or four-year-old to religion is indoctrination.

Right give a 4 year old a choice...haaaa

So you lied when you said it wasn't crammed down their throats. You forced indoctrination into Christian mythology on your preschool children. That is the very definition of "crammed down their throats".

My focus was on teaching my boys a bit more on strong morals in a classroom setting and the schools around here are too jammed with kids to really give them the one on one for that.

That all sounds innocuous. Right up until you link that to your Introducing them to Christ. Then it isn't just teaching them morals, ehtics, and critical thinking. It is indoctrinating them into Christianity, and your moral code based on that model.

You see, I taught my son how to think, how to reason, how to make choices, and accept the responsibility for those choices. That is teaching orals. The very first lesson my son learned was, "Choices have consequences," This is a lesson he has remembered to this day. So, whenever faced with a moral choice, he knows to examine the choice, and try to see the consequences - both intended, and unintended - that may result from either choice, and make a rational decision about how to behave.

Sounds like good dad stuff. Unfortunately other peoples choices play into it also and their morals might not be the same as yours.
Plus there is no way we can always predict what our choices will bring. Life doesn't work that way.

 

[Czernobog]

Interesting that you equate indoctrination with "crammed down one's throat". That being said, actually it was. You say they went to a pre-school where they were "introduced to Christ". Did they have an alternative? And, were they old enough to know they had an alternative, even if they did. You make this statement, as if you do not understand that "introducing" a three- or four-year-old to religion is indoctrination.

Right give a 4 year old a choice...haaaa

So you lied when you said it wasn't crammed down their throats. You forced indoctrination into Christian mythology on your preschool children. That is the very definition of "crammed down their throats".

My focus was on teaching my boys a bit more on strong morals in a classroom setting and the schools around here are too jammed with kids to really give them the one on one for that.

That all sounds innocuous. Right up until you link that to your Introducing them to Christ. Then it isn't just teaching them morals, ehtics, and critical thinking. It is indoctrinating them into Christianity, and your moral code based on that model.

You see, I taught my son how to think, how to reason, how to make choices, and accept the responsibility for those choices. That is teaching orals. The very first lesson my son learned was, "Choices have consequences," This is a lesson he has remembered to this day. So, whenever faced with a moral choice, he knows to examine the choice, and try to see the consequences - both intended, and unintended - that may result from either choice, and make a rational decision about how to behave.

Sounds like good dad stuff. Unfortunately other peoples choices play into it also and their morals might not be the same as yours.
Plus there is no way we can always predict what our choices will bring. Life doesn't work that way.

Nope. That was the second thing I taught my son. Never allow yourself to be reactive. I am not responsible for the choices of others; only those of myself. In this way, I taught him to never base his behaviour on the behaviours of others. If I stick my hand out to shake yours,and you punch me in the face, I am not responsible for your choice; I am only responsible for the choice I made, and for my next choice. If I choose to punch you back, I and I alone, am responsible for the escalation that comes next.

Now, understand, this doesn't mean that I taught my son to not defend himself. He would absolutely hit you back. However, when the teacher/police/authority comes along, he will never whine "He started it!". Rather, he will say, "I was defending myself, " and will accept whatever consequences result in his decision to engage in fisticuffs.

As to your second point, you're right. We cannot always predict, with certainty, long term consequences. However, so long as we have put thought into expected, and possible unintentional, consequences in the foreseeable future, then we can be rationally certain of the ethical correctness of our choices.

 

[Eaglewings]

You do get that those are two separate functions for which there is no evidence of connection, right?

What are you talking about / Of course the 2 connect, and it will be easy to show you scientific evidence. .
Explain what you meant.

Oh, please link me to scientific objective evidence that the process of dreaming is connected to healing.

Why Is Sleep Important? - NHLBI, NIH

You do get that those are two separate functions for which there is no evidence of connection, right?

What are you talking about / Of course the 2 connect, and it will be easy to show you scientific evidence. .
Explain what you meant.

Oh, please link me to scientific objective evidence that the process of dreaming is connected to healing.

Physical Health
Sleep plays an important role in your physical health. For example, sleep is involved in healing and repair of your heart and blood vessels. Ongoing sleep deficiency is linked to an increased risk of heart disease, kidney disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, and stroke.

Sleep deficiency also increases the risk of obesity. For example, one study of teenagers showed that with each hour of sleep lost, the odds of becoming obese went up. Sleep deficiency increases the risk of obesity in other age groups as well.

Sleep helps maintain a healthy balance of the hormones that make you feel hungry (ghrelin) or full (leptin). When you don't get enough sleep, your level of ghrelin goes up and your level of leptin goes down. This makes you feel hungrier than when you're well-rested.

Sleep also affects how your body reacts to insulin, the hormone that controls your blood glucose (sugar) level. Sleep deficiency results in a higher than normal blood sugar level, which may increase your risk for diabetes.


Why Is Sleep Important? - NHLBI, NIH

 

[Eaglewings]

I taught my sons morals through many things Karate through my actions as well..

You are a hypocrite because you know that your view on religion was put into your kids minds too .. moron..

.

 

[Czernobog]

You do get that those are two separate functions for which there is no evidence of connection, right?

What are you talking about / Of course the 2 connect, and it will be easy to show you scientific evidence. .
Explain what you meant.

Oh, please link me to scientific objective evidence that the process of dreaming is connected to healing.

Why Is Sleep Important? - NHLBI, NIH

You do get that those are two separate functions for which there is no evidence of connection, right?

What are you talking about / Of course the 2 connect, and it will be easy to show you scientific evidence. .
Explain what you meant.

Oh, please link me to scientific objective evidence that the process of dreaming is connected to healing.

Physical Health
Sleep plays an important role in your physical health. For example, sleep is involved in healing and repair of your heart and blood vessels. Ongoing sleep deficiency is linked to an increased risk of heart disease, kidney disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, and stroke.

Sleep deficiency also increases the risk of obesity. For example, one study of teenagers showed that with each hour of sleep lost, the odds of becoming obese went up. Sleep deficiency increases the risk of obesity in other age groups as well.

Sleep helps maintain a healthy balance of the hormones that make you feel hungry (ghrelin) or full (leptin). When you don't get enough sleep, your level of ghrelin goes up and your level of leptin goes down. This makes you feel hungrier than when you're well-rested.

Sleep also affects how your body reacts to insulin, the hormone that controls your blood glucose (sugar) level. Sleep deficiency results in a higher than normal blood sugar level, which may increase your risk for diabetes.


Why Is Sleep Important? - NHLBI, NIH

That's not what you claimed. I didn't say that sleep is not connected with healing. That is something any 10-year-old knows. You claimed that DREAMS are connected with healing. That is the claim I take issue with, and your article that SLEEP is connected - even necessary - to healing doers nothing to confirm your claim that DREAMING is connected with healing. The only association between healing, and dreaming is that they both happen to occur while sleeping. There is no evidence that the latter has any effect on the former.