Atheism takes courage

[Czernobog]

You seem to think that a christian is less intelligent than a atheist..

No. I don't think that Christians are less intelligent that Atheists. Nor Muslims, Hindus, or any other, otherwise intelligent person, who, for reasons that boggle my mind, wilfully choose to ignore reason in favour of fantasy, mythology, and superstition.

Ask most Christians if they are afraid of Friday the 13th, or if they avoid walking under ladders, or if they get skitchy around black cats, and they look at you as if you are a moron, and they are shocked that you had the mental capacity to tie your own shoes that morning. Ask them if they left a cup of milk out for the gmoes, so they wouldn't break in at night to break their things, or if they had ever seen the Troll living under the bridge, or if the Elves had come to visit on a full moon, and they will wonder to themselves if they should be calling someone to fit you for one of those nice, self-hugging jackets.

Yet, these same rational, reasonable people, somehow, manage to turn off their reason, and buy in, whole hog, to the irrational idea that there is some magic, invisible Sky Man that made us, the planet, and the whole universe, without a single shred of objective, observable, verifiable evidence to support such an idea. It makes my head hurt.

Most people with faith didn't just wake up in the morning and poof they believed .. it took searching for answers. Even the 12 disciples had lack of faith, until Jesus in the spirit came to them after 3 days dead..

Many were atheists , and agnostics who did ask God that if indeed He is real , show them.
Again it was not a poof experience .

How do you know he came to them as spirit after 3 days dead?

The problem is that Eaglewings ' description of Jesus coming to his followers "in the spirit" disputes the account of his own Holy Book. The Bible makes it clear that Jesus showed up, three days after his death, physically, not spiritually. There was even an account where he had one of them play with his wounds with their finger (picture that in your mind for a sec: "Here, Tommy. Wiggle that finger around in my wound. You know you want to..." Ew!)

Jesus’ own words showed that he would not be resurrected with his flesh-and-blood body. He said that he would give his “flesh in behalf of the life of the world,” as a ransom for mankind. (John 6:51; Matthew 20:28) If he had taken back his flesh when he was resurrected, he would have canceled that ransom sacrifice. This could not have happened, though, for the Bible says that he sacrificed his flesh and blood “once for all time.”—Hebrews 9:11, 12.

So, the Bible lied when it said that he physically had Thomas touch him, and feel his wounds. Okay. Validity of the Bible disproven. Thank you.

 

[Eaglewings]

Most people with faith didn't just wake up in the morning and poof they believed .. it took searching for answers. Even the 12 disciples had lack of faith, until Jesus in the spirit came to them after 3 days dead..

Many were atheists , and agnostics who did ask God that if indeed He is real , show them.
Again it was not a poof experience .

How do you know he came to them as spirit after 3 days dead?

The problem is that Eaglewings ' description of Jesus coming to his followers "in the spirit" disputes the account of his own Holy Book. The Bible makes it clear that Jesus showed up, three days after his death, physically, not spiritually. There was even an account where he had one of them play with his wounds with their finger (picture that in your mind for a sec: "Here, Tommy. Wiggle that finger around in my wound. You know you want to..." Ew!)

In scripture the authors often did not mention that the eyewitness account of one thing or another was the eyewitness account of what was seen and heard during a dream like the transfiguration, when Abraham ate lunch with angels, ezekiel flew through the air from Babylon to Jerusalem with an angel holding him by the hair, or when Thomas stuck his finger in his wounds, Jesus popped in and out of a locked room, or floated up into the sky....

They probably assumed that the rational and intelligent reader would know that such things do not happen in actual reality..the superstitious would be diverted by their superstition, keeping the hidden teaching safe from perversion or repression by remaining above the grasp of any irrational enemies who would ironically preserve them mistaking scripture as a validation of their superstitions instead of the eventual cause of their undoing...

I have not come to bring peace but a sword, from his mouth there went a sharp sword, with which to smite the nations and all that...


Apparently, it still works like a charm.

So, basically the entire Bible is metaphor, hyperbole, and allegory. How convenient. This means that with a little imagination, I can make the Bible mean whatever i want it to. But, it's absolutely the truth, and should be taken seriously...

No, that does not mean that scripture can mean whatever you may want it to. Reality itself that you like to remind people about is a reliable and constant constraint on any given possible interpretation.

When Jesus said "Eat my flesh" there is only one way to interpret that that doesn't make him out to be insane.

When a nameless character in scripture says," How can he give us his flesh to eat?" it is a challenge for the intelligent reader to figure it out.

Yes, many scriptures take a good study to understand not only its interpretation ,but the laws and ways of doing things were different than our back then..

Eating a symbol of Jesus is to remind the conscious of what He did for us.


.

 

[Czernobog]

You seem to think that a christian is less intelligent than a atheist..

No. I don't think that Christians are less intelligent that Atheists. Nor Muslims, Hindus, or any other, otherwise intelligent person, who, for reasons that boggle my mind, wilfully choose to ignore reason in favour of fantasy, mythology, and superstition.

Ask most Christians if they are afraid of Friday the 13th, or if they avoid walking under ladders, or if they get skitchy around black cats, and they look at you as if you are a moron, and they are shocked that you had the mental capacity to tie your own shoes that morning. Ask them if they left a cup of milk out for the gmoes, so they wouldn't break in at night to break their things, or if they had ever seen the Troll living under the bridge, or if the Elves had come to visit on a full moon, and they will wonder to themselves if they should be calling someone to fit you for one of those nice, self-hugging jackets.

Yet, these same rational, reasonable people, somehow, manage to turn off their reason, and buy in, whole hog, to the irrational idea that there is some magic, invisible Sky Man that made us, the planet, and the whole universe, without a single shred of objective, observable, verifiable evidence to support such an idea. It makes my head hurt.

After thought.. really pay attention to this because this may answer your question.

we have 2 significant parts of our brain... the Conscious part which talks to the Sub-Conscious to either quite down a behavior or continue a behavior by our outside influences..
Outside influences means what we feed our conscious on a daily basis.

Your decisions are made in your sub-conscious before your conscious even knows it.. ( link a few post back on how this is scientifically proven )

Your Sub-conscious is on while you sleep, and when you wake up your conscious turns off the autopilot and takes over.

I do feel that our un-conscious brain connects to God and our spirit , this is why many stories in the bible have God coming to them in a dream. Or people wake up from a family member saying they are ok after dying, or a person wakes up person can dream of their future and what they need to do.



When we wake up our conscious takes over and evaluates your surroundings ..this is why you forget dreams.

I honestly do believe people who have faith are connected with the sub-conscious by the stimuli of their experiences and studies.. .
While I do believe and atheist stays mostly in the conscious mode making decisions with what they see in front of them..


I can almost guarantee that this is what goes on..


.

You know, it's interesting that you should mention the subconscious, because the subconscious is also responsible for nearly all magical thinking, such as Wade Boggs believing that the reason his batting average was so good because he ate chicken before every game. "There are many layers of belief," psychologist Carol Nemeroff says. "And the answer for many people, especially with regard to magic, is, 'Most of me doesn't believe but some of me does.'" People will often acknowledge their gut reaction and say it makes no sense to act on it—but do it anyway. Other times, they'll incorporate superstition into their worldview alongside other explanations. "For example," says Susan Gelman, a psychologist at the University of Michigan, "God puts you in the path of an HIV-positive lover, but biology causes you to contract the virus from his semen."

So, the question still remains, if one is rational enough to recognise the fantasy of superstitions, which also have their root in our subconscious, why are they incapable of recognising the equally irrational basis of God mythologies?

Our believe system is in our Conscious, not our Subconscious ... We do not have any control of the Subconscious But... like an addict who needs to change his/her Conscious influences to keep the Subconscious calmed down..
For instance:
Because addiction changes the brain forever. Many people are shocked to find themselves relapse, the Subconscious already made that decision because of not using the tools for sobriety in the Conscious.

Believes like superstition , magic, and a higher power, faith is a conscious decision..


.

Yeah. That is what I have been saying it is the conscious, wilful decision to ignore reason, and rational thought, and choose, instead, to follow magical thinking, and wish fulfilment. That is why i find it so incomprehensible in, otherwise, intelligent, rational people. I mean, to a point I get it. In children it is encouraged, and reinforced by established religion. However, children eventually grow up. They are introduced to science, and critical thinking. They are introduced to the scientific method, and the understanding of objective reality. So, there comes a point when the indoctrination of childhood ceases to be a valid excuse for rational, intelligent people to wilfully ignore what they know to be reason.

 

[Eaglewings]

No. I don't think that Christians are less intelligent that Atheists. Nor Muslims, Hindus, or any other, otherwise intelligent person, who, for reasons that boggle my mind, wilfully choose to ignore reason in favour of fantasy, mythology, and superstition.

Ask most Christians if they are afraid of Friday the 13th, or if they avoid walking under ladders, or if they get skitchy around black cats, and they look at you as if you are a moron, and they are shocked that you had the mental capacity to tie your own shoes that morning. Ask them if they left a cup of milk out for the gmoes, so they wouldn't break in at night to break their things, or if they had ever seen the Troll living under the bridge, or if the Elves had come to visit on a full moon, and they will wonder to themselves if they should be calling someone to fit you for one of those nice, self-hugging jackets.

Yet, these same rational, reasonable people, somehow, manage to turn off their reason, and buy in, whole hog, to the irrational idea that there is some magic, invisible Sky Man that made us, the planet, and the whole universe, without a single shred of objective, observable, verifiable evidence to support such an idea. It makes my head hurt.

Most people with faith didn't just wake up in the morning and poof they believed .. it took searching for answers. Even the 12 disciples had lack of faith, until Jesus in the spirit came to them after 3 days dead..

Many were atheists , and agnostics who did ask God that if indeed He is real , show them.
Again it was not a poof experience .

How do you know he came to them as spirit after 3 days dead?

The problem is that Eaglewings ' description of Jesus coming to his followers "in the spirit" disputes the account of his own Holy Book. The Bible makes it clear that Jesus showed up, three days after his death, physically, not spiritually. There was even an account where he had one of them play with his wounds with their finger (picture that in your mind for a sec: "Here, Tommy. Wiggle that finger around in my wound. You know you want to..." Ew!)

Jesus’ own words showed that he would not be resurrected with his flesh-and-blood body. He said that he would give his “flesh in behalf of the life of the world,” as a ransom for mankind. (John 6:51; Matthew 20:28) If he had taken back his flesh when he was resurrected, he would have canceled that ransom sacrifice. This could not have happened, though, for the Bible says that he sacrificed his flesh and blood “once for all time.”—Hebrews 9:11, 12.

So, the Bible lied when it said that he physically had Thomas touch him, and feel his wounds. Okay. Validity of the Bible disproven. Thank you.

After his resurrection, Jesus also assumed human form temporarily, just as angels had previously done. As a spirit creature, though, he was able to appear and disappear suddenly. (Luke 24:31; John 20:19, 26) The fleshly bodies that he materialized were not identical from one appearance to the next. Thus, even Jesus’ close friends recognized him only by what he said or did.—Luke 24:30, 31, 35;John 20:14-16; 21:6, 7.

 

[Eaglewings]

Yes, I was there because I am here. 24 hours on earth has always been 24 hours on earth. I didn't have to be alive for millions of years to know what reality is and has always been like on earth.

I knew animals don't talk english, people don't float up into the clouds after they die, and storks don't deliver babies when I was 8 years old.
'
Whats taking you so long?

A day has not always been 24 hours long. The Earth's rotation has been slowly slowing down.



The Earth rotates once in about 24 hours with respect to the sun and once every 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4 seconds with respect to the stars (see below). Earth's rotation is slowing slightly with time; thus, a day was shorter in the past.
Earth's rotation - Wikipedia

Ugh.....lol....

Thanks professor...

still, a day is a day and has been for billions of years give or take a few milliseconds.....

Back to my point. How long was a day before the Earth was created, before the Sun was placed in the sky, before the division between night and day was miraculously provided for us by Almighty God?

,
I've got a better question for you. Night and Day are separated by virtue of whether the sun is directly visible in the sky, causing greater light to be available, then when that light is only reflected by the moon. So, since the source of light on the Earth is, well, the Sun, What was God using to "divide the night and the day" for the first three days, since he didn't even create the Sun, or stars until the fourth day.

Now, this, Slyhunter , is the point where they will tell us we are "taking the Bible too literally"; that Genesis was just metaphor, or allegory.

The Jewish people were reading and writing for thousands of years employing well know literary teaching techniques while most of our ancestors were illiterate knuckle dragging barbarians.

The Light spoken into existence was the light of the Law dividing the darkness in a world full of knuckle dragging barbarians.

That you don't understand the metaphors and analogies and consequently cannot grasp the teachings conveyed and reject scripture out of hand as archaic superstitions really isn't any indication that you are somehow more intelligent than those who take the stories literally.

Maybe you are still a knuckle dragging Baboon...

.

 

[Eaglewings]

You seem to think that a christian is less intelligent than a atheist..

No. I don't think that Christians are less intelligent that Atheists. Nor Muslims, Hindus, or any other, otherwise intelligent person, who, for reasons that boggle my mind, wilfully choose to ignore reason in favour of fantasy, mythology, and superstition.

Ask most Christians if they are afraid of Friday the 13th, or if they avoid walking under ladders, or if they get skitchy around black cats, and they look at you as if you are a moron, and they are shocked that you had the mental capacity to tie your own shoes that morning. Ask them if they left a cup of milk out for the gmoes, so they wouldn't break in at night to break their things, or if they had ever seen the Troll living under the bridge, or if the Elves had come to visit on a full moon, and they will wonder to themselves if they should be calling someone to fit you for one of those nice, self-hugging jackets.

Yet, these same rational, reasonable people, somehow, manage to turn off their reason, and buy in, whole hog, to the irrational idea that there is some magic, invisible Sky Man that made us, the planet, and the whole universe, without a single shred of objective, observable, verifiable evidence to support such an idea. It makes my head hurt.

After thought.. really pay attention to this because this may answer your question.

we have 2 significant parts of our brain... the Conscious part which talks to the Sub-Conscious to either quite down a behavior or continue a behavior by our outside influences..
Outside influences means what we feed our conscious on a daily basis.

Your decisions are made in your sub-conscious before your conscious even knows it.. ( link a few post back on how this is scientifically proven )

Your Sub-conscious is on while you sleep, and when you wake up your conscious turns off the autopilot and takes over.

I do feel that our un-conscious brain connects to God and our spirit , this is why many stories in the bible have God coming to them in a dream. Or people wake up from a family member saying they are ok after dying, or a person wakes up person can dream of their future and what they need to do.



When we wake up our conscious takes over and evaluates your surroundings ..this is why you forget dreams.

I honestly do believe people who have faith are connected with the sub-conscious by the stimuli of their experiences and studies.. .
While I do believe and atheist stays mostly in the conscious mode making decisions with what they see in front of them..


I can almost guarantee that this is what goes on..


.

You know, it's interesting that you should mention the subconscious, because the subconscious is also responsible for nearly all magical thinking, such as Wade Boggs believing that the reason his batting average was so good because he ate chicken before every game. "There are many layers of belief," psychologist Carol Nemeroff says. "And the answer for many people, especially with regard to magic, is, 'Most of me doesn't believe but some of me does.'" People will often acknowledge their gut reaction and say it makes no sense to act on it—but do it anyway. Other times, they'll incorporate superstition into their worldview alongside other explanations. "For example," says Susan Gelman, a psychologist at the University of Michigan, "God puts you in the path of an HIV-positive lover, but biology causes you to contract the virus from his semen."

So, the question still remains, if one is rational enough to recognise the fantasy of superstitions, which also have their root in our subconscious, why are they incapable of recognising the equally irrational basis of God mythologies?

Our believe system is in our Conscious, not our Subconscious ... We do not have any control of the Subconscious But... like an addict who needs to change his/her Conscious influences to keep the Subconscious calmed down..
For instance:
Because addiction changes the brain forever. Many people are shocked to find themselves relapse, the Subconscious already made that decision because of not using the tools for sobriety in the Conscious.

Believes like superstition , magic, and a higher power, faith is a conscious decision..


.

Yeah. That is what I have been saying it is the conscious, wilful decision to ignore reason, and rational thought, and choose, instead, to follow magical thinking, and wish fulfilment. That is why i find it so incomprehensible in, otherwise, intelligent, rational people. I mean, to a point I get it. In children it is encouraged, and reinforced by established religion. However, children eventually grow up. They are introduced to science, and critical thinking. They are introduced to the scientific method, and the understanding of objective reality. So, there comes a point when the indoctrination of childhood ceases to be a valid excuse for rational, intelligent people to wilfully ignore what they know to be reason.

A reminder that I told you dreams are from the Subconscious, you wake up and the Conscious takes over.

Sleeping is when healing takes place in the body..

I can't stand to see a kid waving the bible saying that God hates gays or similar.

My boys did go to a preschool where they were introduced to Christ, not crammed down their throats..

.

 

[hobelim]

According to whom, and by what authority?

I am Keystone in the Yahad of God; the habitation of light.

lol... only kidding..

By the authority of a functioning brain according to anyone who has the mental acuity to figure out the complicated and deep mystery of the meaning of a talking serpent.

If you want to argue science to disprove what scripture is not about with people who don't know what its about any better than you, just go right ahead...


I'll just pull up a chair with a few friends, have some drinks, laugh my ass off and enjoy the show...

So, according to you, is what you are saying. You haven't provided any other source for this interpretation of your. Which brings us right back to what Fort Fun said. It is your interpretation, which you have declared the "right" interpretation.

no, what I am saying is that both you and the believers who take scripture literally are equally inept, not very deep thinkers, as demonstrated by your collective inability to decipher such difficult metaphors as a talking serpent or rising from the dead.

They are professing a belief in what scripture is not about and you are using science to refute what scripture is not about. Funny stuff.

You might as well be claiming that the story of the three pigs is complete horseshit because science has demonstrated that pigs can't talk or build houses.

it really is very amusing especially when you go running for a touchdown and start prancing around like a fool as if you won something........

 

[Eaglewings]

You seem to think that a christian is less intelligent than a atheist..

No. I don't think that Christians are less intelligent that Atheists. Nor Muslims, Hindus, or any other, otherwise intelligent person, who, for reasons that boggle my mind, wilfully choose to ignore reason in favour of fantasy, mythology, and superstition.

Ask most Christians if they are afraid of Friday the 13th, or if they avoid walking under ladders, or if they get skitchy around black cats, and they look at you as if you are a moron, and they are shocked that you had the mental capacity to tie your own shoes that morning. Ask them if they left a cup of milk out for the gmoes, so they wouldn't break in at night to break their things, or if they had ever seen the Troll living under the bridge, or if the Elves had come to visit on a full moon, and they will wonder to themselves if they should be calling someone to fit you for one of those nice, self-hugging jackets.

Yet, these same rational, reasonable people, somehow, manage to turn off their reason, and buy in, whole hog, to the irrational idea that there is some magic, invisible Sky Man that made us, the planet, and the whole universe, without a single shred of objective, observable, verifiable evidence to support such an idea. It makes my head hurt.

After thought.. really pay attention to this because this may answer your question.

we have 2 significant parts of our brain... the Conscious part which talks to the Sub-Conscious to either quite down a behavior or continue a behavior by our outside influences..
Outside influences means what we feed our conscious on a daily basis.

Your decisions are made in your sub-conscious before your conscious even knows it.. ( link a few post back on how this is scientifically proven )

Your Sub-conscious is on while you sleep, and when you wake up your conscious turns off the autopilot and takes over.

I do feel that our un-conscious brain connects to God and our spirit , this is why many stories in the bible have God coming to them in a dream. Or people wake up from a family member saying they are ok after dying, or a person wakes up person can dream of their future and what they need to do.



When we wake up our conscious takes over and evaluates your surroundings ..this is why you forget dreams.

I honestly do believe people who have faith are connected with the sub-conscious by the stimuli of their experiences and studies.. .
While I do believe and atheist stays mostly in the conscious mode making decisions with what they see in front of them..


I can almost guarantee that this is what goes on..


.

You know, it's interesting that you should mention the subconscious, because the subconscious is also responsible for nearly all magical thinking, such as Wade Boggs believing that the reason his batting average was so good because he ate chicken before every game. "There are many layers of belief," psychologist Carol Nemeroff says. "And the answer for many people, especially with regard to magic, is, 'Most of me doesn't believe but some of me does.'" People will often acknowledge their gut reaction and say it makes no sense to act on it—but do it anyway. Other times, they'll incorporate superstition into their worldview alongside other explanations. "For example," says Susan Gelman, a psychologist at the University of Michigan, "God puts you in the path of an HIV-positive lover, but biology causes you to contract the virus from his semen."

So, the question still remains, if one is rational enough to recognise the fantasy of superstitions, which also have their root in our subconscious, why are they incapable of recognising the equally irrational basis of God mythologies?

Our believe system is in our Conscious, not our Subconscious ... We do not have any control of the Subconscious But... like an addict who needs to change his/her Conscious influences to keep the Subconscious calmed down..
For instance:
Because addiction changes the brain forever. Many people are shocked to find themselves relapse, the Subconscious already made that decision because of not using the tools for sobriety in the Conscious.

Believes like superstition , magic, and a higher power, faith is a conscious decision..


.

Yeah. That is what I have been saying it is the conscious, wilful decision to ignore reason, and rational thought, and choose, instead, to follow magical thinking, and wish fulfilment. That is why i find it so incomprehensible in, otherwise, intelligent, rational people. I mean, to a point I get it. In children it is encouraged, and reinforced by established religion. However, children eventually grow up. They are introduced to science, and critical thinking. They are introduced to the scientific method, and the understanding of objective reality. So, there comes a point when the indoctrination of childhood ceases to be a valid excuse for rational, intelligent people to wilfully ignore what they know to be reason.

Oh and this is very interesting about the differences between critical, analytical and logical reasoning?

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-f...een-critical-analytical-and-logical-reasoning

 

[hobelim]

A day has not always been 24 hours long. The Earth's rotation has been slowly slowing down.



The Earth rotates once in about 24 hours with respect to the sun and once every 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4 seconds with respect to the stars (see below). Earth's rotation is slowing slightly with time; thus, a day was shorter in the past.
Earth's rotation - Wikipedia

Ugh.....lol....

Thanks professor...

still, a day is a day and has been for billions of years give or take a few milliseconds.....

Back to my point. How long was a day before the Earth was created, before the Sun was placed in the sky, before the division between night and day was miraculously provided for us by Almighty God?

,
I've got a better question for you. Night and Day are separated by virtue of whether the sun is directly visible in the sky, causing greater light to be available, then when that light is only reflected by the moon. So, since the source of light on the Earth is, well, the Sun, What was God using to "divide the night and the day" for the first three days, since he didn't even create the Sun, or stars until the fourth day.

Now, this, Slyhunter , is the point where they will tell us we are "taking the Bible too literally"; that Genesis was just metaphor, or allegory.

The Jewish people were reading and writing for thousands of years employing well know literary teaching techniques while most of our ancestors were illiterate knuckle dragging barbarians.

The Light spoken into existence was the light of the Law dividing the darkness in a world full of knuckle dragging barbarians.

That you don't understand the metaphors and analogies and consequently cannot grasp the teachings conveyed and reject scripture out of hand as archaic superstitions really isn't any indication that you are somehow more intelligent than those who take the stories literally.

Maybe you are still a knuckle dragging Baboon...

.

No silly, the average baboon can't type nearly as well as I can..

 

[Eaglewings]

According to whom, and by what authority?

I am Keystone in the Yahad of God; the habitation of light.

lol... only kidding..

By the authority of a functioning brain according to anyone who has the mental acuity to figure out the complicated and deep mystery of the meaning of a talking serpent.

If you want to argue science to disprove what scripture is not about with people who don't know what its about any better than you, just go right ahead...


I'll just pull up a chair with a few friends, have some drinks, laugh my ass off and enjoy the show...

So, according to you, is what you are saying. You haven't provided any other source for this interpretation of your. Which brings us right back to what Fort Fun said. It is your interpretation, which you have declared the "right" interpretation.

no, what I am saying is that both you and the believers who take scripture literally are equally inept, not very deep thinkers, as demonstrated by your collective inability to decipher such difficult metaphors as a talking serpent or rising from the dead.

They are professing a belief in what scripture is not about and you are using science to refute what scripture is not about.

You might as well be claiming that the story of the three pigs is complete horseshit because science has demonstrated that pigs can't talk or build houses.

it really is very amusing especially when you go running for a touchdown and start prancing around like a fool as if you won something........

For me many of the old testament scriptures are tools .. not literally .. like there are tools in AA to stay sober.

New testament scriptures are told from generation down and then written in a book.

.



.

 

[hobelim]

How do you know he came to them as spirit after 3 days dead?

The problem is that Eaglewings ' description of Jesus coming to his followers "in the spirit" disputes the account of his own Holy Book. The Bible makes it clear that Jesus showed up, three days after his death, physically, not spiritually. There was even an account where he had one of them play with his wounds with their finger (picture that in your mind for a sec: "Here, Tommy. Wiggle that finger around in my wound. You know you want to..." Ew!)

In scripture the authors often did not mention that the eyewitness account of one thing or another was the eyewitness account of what was seen and heard during a dream like the transfiguration, when Abraham ate lunch with angels, ezekiel flew through the air from Babylon to Jerusalem with an angel holding him by the hair, or when Thomas stuck his finger in his wounds, Jesus popped in and out of a locked room, or floated up into the sky....

They probably assumed that the rational and intelligent reader would know that such things do not happen in actual reality..the superstitious would be diverted by their superstition, keeping the hidden teaching safe from perversion or repression by remaining above the grasp of any irrational enemies who would ironically preserve them mistaking scripture as a validation of their superstitions instead of the eventual cause of their undoing...

I have not come to bring peace but a sword, from his mouth there went a sharp sword, with which to smite the nations and all that...


Apparently, it still works like a charm.

So, basically the entire Bible is metaphor, hyperbole, and allegory. How convenient. This means that with a little imagination, I can make the Bible mean whatever i want it to. But, it's absolutely the truth, and should be taken seriously...

No, that does not mean that scripture can mean whatever you may want it to. Reality itself that you like to remind people about is a reliable and constant constraint on any given possible interpretation.

When Jesus said "Eat my flesh" there is only one way to interpret that that doesn't make him out to be insane.

When a nameless character in scripture says," How can he give us his flesh to eat?" it is a challenge for the intelligent reader to figure it out.

Yes, many scriptures take a good study to understand not only its interpretation ,but the laws and ways of doing things were different than our back then..

Eating a symbol of Jesus is to remind the conscious of what He did for us.


.

what do you believe that Jesus did?

 

[Eaglewings]

The problem is that Eaglewings ' description of Jesus coming to his followers "in the spirit" disputes the account of his own Holy Book. The Bible makes it clear that Jesus showed up, three days after his death, physically, not spiritually. There was even an account where he had one of them play with his wounds with their finger (picture that in your mind for a sec: "Here, Tommy. Wiggle that finger around in my wound. You know you want to..." Ew!)

In scripture the authors often did not mention that the eyewitness account of one thing or another was the eyewitness account of what was seen and heard during a dream like the transfiguration, when Abraham ate lunch with angels, ezekiel flew through the air from Babylon to Jerusalem with an angel holding him by the hair, or when Thomas stuck his finger in his wounds, Jesus popped in and out of a locked room, or floated up into the sky....

They probably assumed that the rational and intelligent reader would know that such things do not happen in actual reality..the superstitious would be diverted by their superstition, keeping the hidden teaching safe from perversion or repression by remaining above the grasp of any irrational enemies who would ironically preserve them mistaking scripture as a validation of their superstitions instead of the eventual cause of their undoing...

I have not come to bring peace but a sword, from his mouth there went a sharp sword, with which to smite the nations and all that...


Apparently, it still works like a charm.

So, basically the entire Bible is metaphor, hyperbole, and allegory. How convenient. This means that with a little imagination, I can make the Bible mean whatever i want it to. But, it's absolutely the truth, and should be taken seriously...

No, that does not mean that scripture can mean whatever you may want it to. Reality itself that you like to remind people about is a reliable and constant constraint on any given possible interpretation.

When Jesus said "Eat my flesh" there is only one way to interpret that that doesn't make him out to be insane.

When a nameless character in scripture says," How can he give us his flesh to eat?" it is a challenge for the intelligent reader to figure it out.

Yes, many scriptures take a good study to understand not only its interpretation ,but the laws and ways of doing things were different than our back then..

Eating a symbol of Jesus is to remind the conscious of what He did for us.


.

what do you believe that Jesus did?

Jesus was betrayed by one of His disciples , He was humiliated, tortured and died the most horrendous death so that the bridge from human to God can happen by the ultimate sacrifice of sheding His blood so that we can live eternally .. Before this man was sinful and dirty in Gods eyes..

Jesus knew that he would be betrayed and the night before is what they call The Last Supper. Jesus then explained to His disciples that eating the bread is His body, while the wine was His blood..

.

 

[Slyhunter]

Most people with faith didn't just wake up in the morning and poof they believed .. it took searching for answers. Even the 12 disciples had lack of faith, until Jesus in the spirit came to them after 3 days dead..

Many were atheists , and agnostics who did ask God that if indeed He is real , show them.
Again it was not a poof experience .

How do you know he came to them as spirit after 3 days dead?

The problem is that Eaglewings ' description of Jesus coming to his followers "in the spirit" disputes the account of his own Holy Book. The Bible makes it clear that Jesus showed up, three days after his death, physically, not spiritually. There was even an account where he had one of them play with his wounds with their finger (picture that in your mind for a sec: "Here, Tommy. Wiggle that finger around in my wound. You know you want to..." Ew!)

Jesus’ own words showed that he would not be resurrected with his flesh-and-blood body. He said that he would give his “flesh in behalf of the life of the world,” as a ransom for mankind. (John 6:51; Matthew 20:28) If he had taken back his flesh when he was resurrected, he would have canceled that ransom sacrifice. This could not have happened, though, for the Bible says that he sacrificed his flesh and blood “once for all time.”—Hebrews 9:11, 12.

So, the Bible lied when it said that he physically had Thomas touch him, and feel his wounds. Okay. Validity of the Bible disproven. Thank you.

After his resurrection, Jesus also assumed human form temporarily, just as angels had previously done. As a spirit creature, though, he was able to appear and disappear suddenly. (Luke 24:31; John 20:19, 26) The fleshly bodies that he materialized were not identical from one appearance to the next. Thus, even Jesus’ close friends recognized him only by what he said or did.—Luke 24:30, 31, 35;John 20:14-16; 21:6, 7.

He still appears in flesh in many forms today. Just check out our insane asylums.

 

[Slyhunter]

No. I don't think that Christians are less intelligent that Atheists. Nor Muslims, Hindus, or any other, otherwise intelligent person, who, for reasons that boggle my mind, wilfully choose to ignore reason in favour of fantasy, mythology, and superstition.

Ask most Christians if they are afraid of Friday the 13th, or if they avoid walking under ladders, or if they get skitchy around black cats, and they look at you as if you are a moron, and they are shocked that you had the mental capacity to tie your own shoes that morning. Ask them if they left a cup of milk out for the gmoes, so they wouldn't break in at night to break their things, or if they had ever seen the Troll living under the bridge, or if the Elves had come to visit on a full moon, and they will wonder to themselves if they should be calling someone to fit you for one of those nice, self-hugging jackets.

Yet, these same rational, reasonable people, somehow, manage to turn off their reason, and buy in, whole hog, to the irrational idea that there is some magic, invisible Sky Man that made us, the planet, and the whole universe, without a single shred of objective, observable, verifiable evidence to support such an idea. It makes my head hurt.

After thought.. really pay attention to this because this may answer your question.

we have 2 significant parts of our brain... the Conscious part which talks to the Sub-Conscious to either quite down a behavior or continue a behavior by our outside influences..
Outside influences means what we feed our conscious on a daily basis.

Your decisions are made in your sub-conscious before your conscious even knows it.. ( link a few post back on how this is scientifically proven )

Your Sub-conscious is on while you sleep, and when you wake up your conscious turns off the autopilot and takes over.

I do feel that our un-conscious brain connects to God and our spirit , this is why many stories in the bible have God coming to them in a dream. Or people wake up from a family member saying they are ok after dying, or a person wakes up person can dream of their future and what they need to do.



When we wake up our conscious takes over and evaluates your surroundings ..this is why you forget dreams.

I honestly do believe people who have faith are connected with the sub-conscious by the stimuli of their experiences and studies.. .
While I do believe and atheist stays mostly in the conscious mode making decisions with what they see in front of them..


I can almost guarantee that this is what goes on..


.

You know, it's interesting that you should mention the subconscious, because the subconscious is also responsible for nearly all magical thinking, such as Wade Boggs believing that the reason his batting average was so good because he ate chicken before every game. "There are many layers of belief," psychologist Carol Nemeroff says. "And the answer for many people, especially with regard to magic, is, 'Most of me doesn't believe but some of me does.'" People will often acknowledge their gut reaction and say it makes no sense to act on it—but do it anyway. Other times, they'll incorporate superstition into their worldview alongside other explanations. "For example," says Susan Gelman, a psychologist at the University of Michigan, "God puts you in the path of an HIV-positive lover, but biology causes you to contract the virus from his semen."

So, the question still remains, if one is rational enough to recognise the fantasy of superstitions, which also have their root in our subconscious, why are they incapable of recognising the equally irrational basis of God mythologies?

Our believe system is in our Conscious, not our Subconscious ... We do not have any control of the Subconscious But... like an addict who needs to change his/her Conscious influences to keep the Subconscious calmed down..
For instance:
Because addiction changes the brain forever. Many people are shocked to find themselves relapse, the Subconscious already made that decision because of not using the tools for sobriety in the Conscious.

Believes like superstition , magic, and a higher power, faith is a conscious decision..


.

Yeah. That is what I have been saying it is the conscious, wilful decision to ignore reason, and rational thought, and choose, instead, to follow magical thinking, and wish fulfilment. That is why i find it so incomprehensible in, otherwise, intelligent, rational people. I mean, to a point I get it. In children it is encouraged, and reinforced by established religion. However, children eventually grow up. They are introduced to science, and critical thinking. They are introduced to the scientific method, and the understanding of objective reality. So, there comes a point when the indoctrination of childhood ceases to be a valid excuse for rational, intelligent people to wilfully ignore what they know to be reason.

A reminder that I told you dreams are from the Subconscious, you wake up and the Conscious takes over.

Sleeping is when healing takes place in the body..

I can't stand to see a kid waving the bible saying that God hates gays or similar.

My boys did go to a preschool where they were introduced to Christ, not crammed down their throats..

.

Todays dream from a nap. A guy in his upper 40's, a guy and girl in their late 20's, live together. Yuppies.
Roommates, Partners in crime, and lovers. Both males are bi. Different scenes, different setups. One scene younger ones having sex on the couch while older one fixing food in kitchen, all having a conversation about politics. Oh and Their British. None of them are flagrantly gay. They literally are criminal partners. They live well but not extravagantly. And it's a comedy sitcom.


BTW I'm not gay. I don't like nothing near my ass. I find hair disgusting.

 

[Eaglewings]

After thought.. really pay attention to this because this may answer your question.

we have 2 significant parts of our brain... the Conscious part which talks to the Sub-Conscious to either quite down a behavior or continue a behavior by our outside influences..
Outside influences means what we feed our conscious on a daily basis.

Your decisions are made in your sub-conscious before your conscious even knows it.. ( link a few post back on how this is scientifically proven )

Your Sub-conscious is on while you sleep, and when you wake up your conscious turns off the autopilot and takes over.

I do feel that our un-conscious brain connects to God and our spirit , this is why many stories in the bible have God coming to them in a dream. Or people wake up from a family member saying they are ok after dying, or a person wakes up person can dream of their future and what they need to do.



When we wake up our conscious takes over and evaluates your surroundings ..this is why you forget dreams.

I honestly do believe people who have faith are connected with the sub-conscious by the stimuli of their experiences and studies.. .
While I do believe and atheist stays mostly in the conscious mode making decisions with what they see in front of them..


I can almost guarantee that this is what goes on..


.

You know, it's interesting that you should mention the subconscious, because the subconscious is also responsible for nearly all magical thinking, such as Wade Boggs believing that the reason his batting average was so good because he ate chicken before every game. "There are many layers of belief," psychologist Carol Nemeroff says. "And the answer for many people, especially with regard to magic, is, 'Most of me doesn't believe but some of me does.'" People will often acknowledge their gut reaction and say it makes no sense to act on it—but do it anyway. Other times, they'll incorporate superstition into their worldview alongside other explanations. "For example," says Susan Gelman, a psychologist at the University of Michigan, "God puts you in the path of an HIV-positive lover, but biology causes you to contract the virus from his semen."

So, the question still remains, if one is rational enough to recognise the fantasy of superstitions, which also have their root in our subconscious, why are they incapable of recognising the equally irrational basis of God mythologies?

Our believe system is in our Conscious, not our Subconscious ... We do not have any control of the Subconscious But... like an addict who needs to change his/her Conscious influences to keep the Subconscious calmed down..
For instance:
Because addiction changes the brain forever. Many people are shocked to find themselves relapse, the Subconscious already made that decision because of not using the tools for sobriety in the Conscious.

Believes like superstition , magic, and a higher power, faith is a conscious decision..


.

Yeah. That is what I have been saying it is the conscious, wilful decision to ignore reason, and rational thought, and choose, instead, to follow magical thinking, and wish fulfilment. That is why i find it so incomprehensible in, otherwise, intelligent, rational people. I mean, to a point I get it. In children it is encouraged, and reinforced by established religion. However, children eventually grow up. They are introduced to science, and critical thinking. They are introduced to the scientific method, and the understanding of objective reality. So, there comes a point when the indoctrination of childhood ceases to be a valid excuse for rational, intelligent people to wilfully ignore what they know to be reason.

A reminder that I told you dreams are from the Subconscious, you wake up and the Conscious takes over.

Sleeping is when healing takes place in the body..

I can't stand to see a kid waving the bible saying that God hates gays or similar.

My boys did go to a preschool where they were introduced to Christ, not crammed down their throats..

.

Todays dream from a nap. A guy in his upper 40's, a guy and girl in their late 20's, live together. Yuppies.
Roommates, Partners in crime, and lovers. Both males are bi. Different scenes, different setups. One scene younger ones having sex on the couch while older one fixing food in kitchen, all having a conversation about politics. Oh and Their British. None of them are flagrantly gay. They literally are criminal partners. They live well but not extravagantly. And it's a comedy sitcom.


BTW I'm not gay. I don't like nothing near my ass. I find hair disgusting.

Maybe you were gay in your past life...lol

.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So, basically the entire Bible is metaphor, hyperbole, and allegory. How convenient. This means that with a little imagination, I can make the Bible mean whatever i want it to. But, it's absolutely the truth, and should be taken seriously...

No, that does not mean that scripture can mean whatever you may want it to. Reality itself that you like to remind people about is a reliable and constant constraint on any given possible interpretation.

When Jesus said "Eat my flesh" there is only one way to interpret that that doesn't make him out to be insane.

When a nameless character in scripture says," How can he give us his flesh to eat?" it is a challenge for the intelligent reader to figure it out.

"No, that does not mean that scripture can mean whatever you may want it to."

Of course it does. we've already been over this. In fact, in that very discussion, you demanded that a single interpretation (yours, obviously) was the "correct" interpretation of a Bible story. yet even the most cursory look around shows that many people carry a different interpretation.

So, apparently, the sum total of your authority of the "correct" interpretation is "because you say so". Which makes the other poster's point!

Well yes, we have been over this before and again you are being dishonest.

I am not claiming anything about my interpretation, I am talking about the right interpretation. Not every interpretation is even admissible if reality is the constraint. Another constraint is that the stories are true.

Given that,the only way that the story of Jesus popping in and out of a locked room could be a truthful eyewitness account is if it was the eyewitness account of what was seen and heard in a dream, the only place where such things happen all the time.

", I am talking about the right interpretation. "

As wholly decided by your opinion. Exactly as I said. You are quite the double speaker.

No, the intended teaching was in writing long before I was born and has nothing whatever to do with what I can see or don't see.

I am challenging you to take a stand on what that teaching could be now that you have been taught how to look at the subject... by me,.

I ignore your challenge, and instead opt to demonstrate that, for any interpretation you opine (and yes, let's be clear, it will be your opinion) to be the correct one, I can produce differing opinions from others.

The fact is, these stories can be interpreted many ways, as evidenced by sectarian disagreement in christianity. The only authority you seem to have presented is your opinion and generic appeals to unknown authorities.

The fact is, it's religious fable, and can be interpreted myriad ways.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

According to whom, and by what authority?

I am Keystone in the Yahad of God; the habitation of light.

lol... only kidding..

By the authority of a functioning brain according to anyone who has the mental acuity to figure out the complicated and deep mystery of the meaning of a talking serpent.

If you want to argue science to disprove what scripture is not about with people who don't know what its about any better than you, just go right ahead...


I'll just pull up a chair with a few friends, have some drinks, laugh my ass off and enjoy the show...

"By the authority of a functioning brain according to anyone who has the mental acuity to figure out the complicated and deep mystery of the meaning of a talking serpent."

You keep making this same terrible argument. If it were one tenth as compelling as it is snarky, specious, and meaningless, you might have something there. But it ain't, and you don't.

 

[Blackrook]

I suppose there is a certain kind of courage in believing this shitty world, with all its injustice, is all there is, and there will never be judgment on those who harm others and profit from it. But I'd rather believe that believing in Jesus' sacrifice, obeying the Ten Commandments, and doing good deeds will ultimately be rewarded by a loving God.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I suppose there is a certain kind of courage in believing this shitty world, with all its injustice, is all there is, and there will never be judgment on those who harm others and profit from it. But I'd rather believe that believing in Jesus' sacrifice, obeying the Ten Commandments, and doing good deeds will ultimately be rewarded by a loving God.

Why? Can't think of anything better? I can.

 

[Czernobog]

No. I don't think that Christians are less intelligent that Atheists. Nor Muslims, Hindus, or any other, otherwise intelligent person, who, for reasons that boggle my mind, wilfully choose to ignore reason in favour of fantasy, mythology, and superstition.

Ask most Christians if they are afraid of Friday the 13th, or if they avoid walking under ladders, or if they get skitchy around black cats, and they look at you as if you are a moron, and they are shocked that you had the mental capacity to tie your own shoes that morning. Ask them if they left a cup of milk out for the gmoes, so they wouldn't break in at night to break their things, or if they had ever seen the Troll living under the bridge, or if the Elves had come to visit on a full moon, and they will wonder to themselves if they should be calling someone to fit you for one of those nice, self-hugging jackets.

Yet, these same rational, reasonable people, somehow, manage to turn off their reason, and buy in, whole hog, to the irrational idea that there is some magic, invisible Sky Man that made us, the planet, and the whole universe, without a single shred of objective, observable, verifiable evidence to support such an idea. It makes my head hurt.

After thought.. really pay attention to this because this may answer your question.

we have 2 significant parts of our brain... the Conscious part which talks to the Sub-Conscious to either quite down a behavior or continue a behavior by our outside influences..
Outside influences means what we feed our conscious on a daily basis.

Your decisions are made in your sub-conscious before your conscious even knows it.. ( link a few post back on how this is scientifically proven )

Your Sub-conscious is on while you sleep, and when you wake up your conscious turns off the autopilot and takes over.

I do feel that our un-conscious brain connects to God and our spirit , this is why many stories in the bible have God coming to them in a dream. Or people wake up from a family member saying they are ok after dying, or a person wakes up person can dream of their future and what they need to do.



When we wake up our conscious takes over and evaluates your surroundings ..this is why you forget dreams.

I honestly do believe people who have faith are connected with the sub-conscious by the stimuli of their experiences and studies.. .
While I do believe and atheist stays mostly in the conscious mode making decisions with what they see in front of them..


I can almost guarantee that this is what goes on..


.

You know, it's interesting that you should mention the subconscious, because the subconscious is also responsible for nearly all magical thinking, such as Wade Boggs believing that the reason his batting average was so good because he ate chicken before every game. "There are many layers of belief," psychologist Carol Nemeroff says. "And the answer for many people, especially with regard to magic, is, 'Most of me doesn't believe but some of me does.'" People will often acknowledge their gut reaction and say it makes no sense to act on it—but do it anyway. Other times, they'll incorporate superstition into their worldview alongside other explanations. "For example," says Susan Gelman, a psychologist at the University of Michigan, "God puts you in the path of an HIV-positive lover, but biology causes you to contract the virus from his semen."

So, the question still remains, if one is rational enough to recognise the fantasy of superstitions, which also have their root in our subconscious, why are they incapable of recognising the equally irrational basis of God mythologies?

Our believe system is in our Conscious, not our Subconscious ... We do not have any control of the Subconscious But... like an addict who needs to change his/her Conscious influences to keep the Subconscious calmed down..
For instance:
Because addiction changes the brain forever. Many people are shocked to find themselves relapse, the Subconscious already made that decision because of not using the tools for sobriety in the Conscious.

Believes like superstition , magic, and a higher power, faith is a conscious decision..


.

Yeah. That is what I have been saying it is the conscious, wilful decision to ignore reason, and rational thought, and choose, instead, to follow magical thinking, and wish fulfilment. That is why i find it so incomprehensible in, otherwise, intelligent, rational people. I mean, to a point I get it. In children it is encouraged, and reinforced by established religion. However, children eventually grow up. They are introduced to science, and critical thinking. They are introduced to the scientific method, and the understanding of objective reality. So, there comes a point when the indoctrination of childhood ceases to be a valid excuse for rational, intelligent people to wilfully ignore what they know to be reason.

A reminder that I told you dreams are from the Subconscious, you wake up and the Conscious takes over.

Sleeping is when healing takes place in the body..

You do get that those are two separate functions for which there is no evidence of connection, right?

I can't stand to see a kid waving the bible saying that God hates gays or similar.

My boys did go to a preschool where they were introduced to Christ, not crammed down their throats..

Interesting that you equate indoctrination with "crammed down one's throat". That being said, actually it was. You say they went to a pre-school where they were "introduced to Christ". Did they have an alternative? And, were they old enough to know they had an alternative, even if they did. You make this statement, as if you do not understand that "introducing" a three- or four-year-old to religion is indoctrination.