Atheism takes courage

[hobelim]

You seem to think that a christian is less intelligent than a atheist..

No. I don't think that Christians are less intelligent that Atheists. Nor Muslims, Hindus, or any other, otherwise intelligent person, who, for reasons that boggle my mind, wilfully choose to ignore reason in favour of fantasy, mythology, and superstition.

Ask most Christians if they are afraid of Friday the 13th, or if they avoid walking under ladders, or if they get skitchy around black cats, and they look at you as if you are a moron, and they are shocked that you had the mental capacity to tie your own shoes that morning. Ask them if they left a cup of milk out for the gmoes, so they wouldn't break in at night to break their things, or if they had ever seen the Troll living under the bridge, or if the Elves had come to visit on a full moon, and they will wonder to themselves if they should be calling someone to fit you for one of those nice, self-hugging jackets.

Yet, these same rational, reasonable people, somehow, manage to turn off their reason, and buy in, whole hog, to the irrational idea that there is some magic, invisible Sky Man that made us, the planet, and the whole universe, without a single shred of objective, observable, verifiable evidence to support such an idea. It makes my head hurt.

Most people with faith didn't just wake up in the morning and poof they believed .. it took searching for answers. Even the 12 disciples had lack of faith, until Jesus in the spirit came to them after 3 days dead..

Many were atheists , and agnostics who did ask God that if indeed He is real , show them.
Again it was not a poof experience .

How do you know he came to them as spirit after 3 days dead?

The problem is that Eaglewings ' description of Jesus coming to his followers "in the spirit" disputes the account of his own Holy Book. The Bible makes it clear that Jesus showed up, three days after his death, physically, not spiritually. There was even an account where he had one of them play with his wounds with their finger (picture that in your mind for a sec: "Here, Tommy. Wiggle that finger around in my wound. You know you want to..." Ew!)

In scripture the authors often did not mention that the eyewitness account of one thing or another was the eyewitness account of what was seen and heard during a dream like the transfiguration, when Abraham ate lunch with angels, ezekiel flew through the air from Babylon to Jerusalem with an angel holding him by the hair, or when Thomas stuck his finger in his wounds, Jesus popped in and out of a locked room, or floated up into the sky....

They probably assumed that the rational and intelligent reader would know that such things do not happen in actual reality..the superstitious would be diverted by their superstition, keeping the hidden teaching safe from perversion or repression by remaining above the grasp of any malevolent enemies who would ironically preserve them mistaking scripture as a validation of their superstitions instead of the eventual cause of their undoing...

I have not come to bring peace but a sword, from his mouth there went a sharp sword, with which to smite the nations and all that...


Apparently, it still works like a charm.

 

[Czernobog]

Not to mention that the story of Genesis upon which believers base their faith that God created the universe by speaking isn't even about the creation of the universe, the solar system, the earth, the first plants, animals or human beings...

The most astonishing thing about the whole damn thing is that when believers who profess to know the truth hear the truth they don't have the faith in the brains that God gave them to accept it.....

What is a day, prior to the creation of the Universe?

A day has always been the same.

However going through a day in a state of confusion, anger, and despair is by far much longer and harder than going through a day in a state of peace love and understanding....

Show me some facts on a Day always being a Day... were you there?

.

Yes, I was there because I am here. 24 hours on earth has always been 24 hours on earth. I didn't have to be alive for millions of years to know what reality is and has always been like on earth.

I knew animals don't talk english when I was 8 years old.

No fact dudes... Show me the facts to back yourself up.

.

Really?!?! You're suddenly demanding empirical evidence?!?

 

[Czernobog]

You seem to think that a christian is less intelligent than a atheist..

No. I don't think that Christians are less intelligent that Atheists. Nor Muslims, Hindus, or any other, otherwise intelligent person, who, for reasons that boggle my mind, wilfully choose to ignore reason in favour of fantasy, mythology, and superstition.

Ask most Christians if they are afraid of Friday the 13th, or if they avoid walking under ladders, or if they get skitchy around black cats, and they look at you as if you are a moron, and they are shocked that you had the mental capacity to tie your own shoes that morning. Ask them if they left a cup of milk out for the gmoes, so they wouldn't break in at night to break their things, or if they had ever seen the Troll living under the bridge, or if the Elves had come to visit on a full moon, and they will wonder to themselves if they should be calling someone to fit you for one of those nice, self-hugging jackets.

Yet, these same rational, reasonable people, somehow, manage to turn off their reason, and buy in, whole hog, to the irrational idea that there is some magic, invisible Sky Man that made us, the planet, and the whole universe, without a single shred of objective, observable, verifiable evidence to support such an idea. It makes my head hurt.

Most people with faith didn't just wake up in the morning and poof they believed .. it took searching for answers. Even the 12 disciples had lack of faith, until Jesus in the spirit came to them after 3 days dead..

Many were atheists , and agnostics who did ask God that if indeed He is real , show them.
Again it was not a poof experience .

How do you know he came to them as spirit after 3 days dead?

The problem is that Eaglewings ' description of Jesus coming to his followers "in the spirit" disputes the account of his own Holy Book. The Bible makes it clear that Jesus showed up, three days after his death, physically, not spiritually. There was even an account where he had one of them play with his wounds with their finger (picture that in your mind for a sec: "Here, Tommy. Wiggle that finger around in my wound. You know you want to..." Ew!)

In scripture the authors often did not mention that the eyewitness account of one thing or another was the eyewitness account of what was seen and heard during a dream like the transfiguration, when Abraham ate lunch with angels, ezekiel flew through the air from Babylon to Jerusalem with an angel holding him by the hair, or when Thomas stuck his finger in his wounds, Jesus popped in and out of a locked room, or floated up into the sky....

They probably assumed that the rational and intelligent reader would know that such things do not happen in actual reality..the superstitious would be diverted by their superstition, keeping the hidden teaching safe from perversion or repression by remaining above the grasp of any irrational enemies who would ironically preserve them mistaking scripture as a validation of their superstitions instead of the eventual cause of their undoing...

I have not come to bring peace but a sword, from his mouth there went a sharp sword, with which to smite the nations and all that...


Apparently, it still works like a charm.

So, basically the entire Bible is metaphor, hyperbole, and allegory. How convenient. This means that with a little imagination, I can make the Bible mean whatever i want it to. But, it's absolutely the truth, and should be taken seriously...

 

[hobelim]

No. I don't think that Christians are less intelligent that Atheists. Nor Muslims, Hindus, or any other, otherwise intelligent person, who, for reasons that boggle my mind, wilfully choose to ignore reason in favour of fantasy, mythology, and superstition.

Ask most Christians if they are afraid of Friday the 13th, or if they avoid walking under ladders, or if they get skitchy around black cats, and they look at you as if you are a moron, and they are shocked that you had the mental capacity to tie your own shoes that morning. Ask them if they left a cup of milk out for the gmoes, so they wouldn't break in at night to break their things, or if they had ever seen the Troll living under the bridge, or if the Elves had come to visit on a full moon, and they will wonder to themselves if they should be calling someone to fit you for one of those nice, self-hugging jackets.

Yet, these same rational, reasonable people, somehow, manage to turn off their reason, and buy in, whole hog, to the irrational idea that there is some magic, invisible Sky Man that made us, the planet, and the whole universe, without a single shred of objective, observable, verifiable evidence to support such an idea. It makes my head hurt.

Most people with faith didn't just wake up in the morning and poof they believed .. it took searching for answers. Even the 12 disciples had lack of faith, until Jesus in the spirit came to them after 3 days dead..

Many were atheists , and agnostics who did ask God that if indeed He is real , show them.
Again it was not a poof experience .

How do you know he came to them as spirit after 3 days dead?

The problem is that Eaglewings ' description of Jesus coming to his followers "in the spirit" disputes the account of his own Holy Book. The Bible makes it clear that Jesus showed up, three days after his death, physically, not spiritually. There was even an account where he had one of them play with his wounds with their finger (picture that in your mind for a sec: "Here, Tommy. Wiggle that finger around in my wound. You know you want to..." Ew!)

In scripture the authors often did not mention that the eyewitness account of one thing or another was the eyewitness account of what was seen and heard during a dream like the transfiguration, when Abraham ate lunch with angels, ezekiel flew through the air from Babylon to Jerusalem with an angel holding him by the hair, or when Thomas stuck his finger in his wounds, Jesus popped in and out of a locked room, or floated up into the sky....

They probably assumed that the rational and intelligent reader would know that such things do not happen in actual reality..the superstitious would be diverted by their superstition, keeping the hidden teaching safe from perversion or repression by remaining above the grasp of any irrational enemies who would ironically preserve them mistaking scripture as a validation of their superstitions instead of the eventual cause of their undoing...

I have not come to bring peace but a sword, from his mouth there went a sharp sword, with which to smite the nations and all that...


Apparently, it still works like a charm.

So, basically the entire Bible is metaphor, hyperbole, and allegory. How convenient. This means that with a little imagination, I can make the Bible mean whatever i want it to. But, it's absolutely the truth, and should be taken seriously...

No, that does not mean that scripture can mean whatever you may want it to. Reality itself that you like to remind people about is a reliable and constant constraint on any given possible interpretation.

When Jesus said "Eat my flesh" there is only one way to interpret that that doesn't make him out to be insane.

When a nameless character in scripture says," How can he give us his flesh to eat?" it is a challenge for the intelligent reader to figure it out.

 

[Czernobog]

A day has always been the same.

However going through a day in a state of confusion, anger, and despair is by far much longer and harder than going through a day in a state of peace love and understanding....

Show me some facts on a Day always being a Day... were you there?

.

Yes, I was there because I am here. 24 hours on earth has always been 24 hours on earth. I didn't have to be alive for millions of years to know what reality is and has always been like on earth.

I knew animals don't talk english, people don't float up into the clouds after they die, and storks don't deliver babies when I was 8 years old.
'
Whats taking you so long?

A day has not always been 24 hours long. The Earth's rotation has been slowly slowing down.



The Earth rotates once in about 24 hours with respect to the sun and once every 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4 seconds with respect to the stars (see below). Earth's rotation is slowing slightly with time; thus, a day was shorter in the past.
Earth's rotation - Wikipedia

Ugh.....lol....

Thanks professor...

still, a day is a day and has been for billions of years give or take a few milliseconds.....

Back to my point. How long was a day before the Earth was created, before the Sun was placed in the sky, before the division between night and day was miraculously provided for us by Almighty God?

,
I've got a better question for you. Night and Day are separated by virtue of whether the sun is directly visible in the sky, causing greater light to be available, then when that light is only reflected by the moon. So, since the source of light on the Earth is, well, the Sun, What was God using to "divide the night and the day" for the first three days, since he didn't even create the Sun, or stars until the fourth day.

Now, this, Slyhunter , is the point where they will tell us we are "taking the Bible too literally"; that Genesis was just metaphor, or allegory.

 

[hobelim]

Show me some facts on a Day always being a Day... were you there?

.

Yes, I was there because I am here. 24 hours on earth has always been 24 hours on earth. I didn't have to be alive for millions of years to know what reality is and has always been like on earth.

I knew animals don't talk english, people don't float up into the clouds after they die, and storks don't deliver babies when I was 8 years old.
'
Whats taking you so long?

A day has not always been 24 hours long. The Earth's rotation has been slowly slowing down.



The Earth rotates once in about 24 hours with respect to the sun and once every 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4 seconds with respect to the stars (see below). Earth's rotation is slowing slightly with time; thus, a day was shorter in the past.
Earth's rotation - Wikipedia

Ugh.....lol....

Thanks professor...

still, a day is a day and has been for billions of years give or take a few milliseconds.....

Back to my point. How long was a day before the Earth was created, before the Sun was placed in the sky, before the division between night and day was miraculously provided for us by Almighty God?

,
I've got a better question for you. Night and Day are separated by virtue of whether the sun is directly visible in the sky, causing greater light to be available, then when that light is only reflected by the moon. So, since the source of light on the Earth is, well, the Sun, What was God using to "divide the night and the day" for the first three days, since he didn't even create the Sun, or stars until the fourth day.

Now, this, Slyhunter , is the point where they will tell us we are "taking the Bible too literally"; that Genesis was just metaphor, or allegory.

The Jewish people were reading and writing for thousands of years employing well know literary teaching techniques while most of our ancestors were illiterate knuckle dragging barbarians.

The Light spoken into existence was the light of the Law dividing the darkness in a world full of knuckle dragging barbarians.

That you don't understand the metaphors and analogies and consequently cannot grasp the teachings conveyed and reject scripture out of hand as archaic superstitions really isn't any indication that you are somehow more intelligent than those who take the stories literally.

 

[featherlite]

First of all, I never said anything about punishing a child for eternity. I was simply using it as an example that actions have consequences. God does not send people to Hell for not believing in Him. They send themselves to Hell because they refused to admit that they are a sinner and spit in the face of God. They say that they want nothing to do with God. God simply grants them their wish. Think about the magnitude of such a crime. You are telling the One who created you and deserves your worship to f*ck off and die. If I was God, I be pretty pissed about that. Wouldn't you? And, as I have mentioned before, God gave us a way out. It's a free gift. You don't have to earn it. Simple believe and repent. BTW, the Bible teaches that everyone is born with an awareness of God. But most people suppress this awareness because they love their sin more than their Creator. Such selfish arrogance deserves eternity in Hell. Wouldn't you agree?

A way out of WHAT exactly? How about this God critter just leaves me alone? I didn't ask for him to create me. I will not worship something that places his own creations into a fire pit for "punishment." I think it is wrong and evil. That doesn't describe anything that I would ever consider "good."

God is not sending to Hell. YOU are! You are the one who sinned. You are the one who is rejecting a gift, bought at a terrible price. Quit blaming God. It's like blaming Bush. YOU are responsible for where you spend eternity. No one else.

God is not sending to Hell. YOU are! You are the one who sinned. You are the one who is rejecting a gift, bought at a terrible price. Quit blaming God. It's like blaming Bush. YOU are responsible for where you spend eternity. No one else.

You know, that type of response
doesn't draw people to God, it pushes them farther away

First of all, her argument, reasoning, is valid...
your response was totally out of line and improper

What was the point of telling her
to quit blaming God...SHE'S sending herself to hell
SHE'S the one who sinned...SHE is rejecting Jesus
SHE is responsible for where she spends eternity

Why would she blame God, if she doesn't believe in Him?

Why would a loving and merciful God, create hell?

Why would she differentiate sin from right and wrong?

How could she accept a wonderful gift,
and realize the price it cost,
if she does not know Who gave it to her?

How is she, alone, responsible for
where she spends eternity, if it is dependent on
who is watering the seed that was obviously planted?

You're in for a rude awakening.

And that is exactly why you are going to Hell. The sin of pride. You have sinned. Everyone has.

No, you're in for a rude awakening,
if you keep telling people they are going to hell!

You have no idea what God is doing in her life
or the road He paved for her to find Him!

If I were you, I'd stop focusing on
the relationship she doesn't have with Him,
and focus on the relationship you think you have with Him!

Please try to stay on topic. Better yet, I'll just ignore you. How's that?

Better still, stop preaching...
telling her she's going to hell, then, you'll just ignore her...

Believing in God is not enough!
You are too wise in your own eyes!

Too wise? because finally someone cut through the toxic bs. Christians aren't responsible for turning people away or bringing people to God. God brings you to him. We turn away.
"Let the dead bury the dead" One of the kindest Christians Ive ever known said that about me one time and it was more than true.

Btw, narcissistic/manipulative back and forth on a political forum is a bit different than genuine soul searching.

Too wise?

Yes, both of you...too wise in your own eyes!

because finally someone cut through the toxic bs.

no, because once again, someone cut to the chase,
and spewed off their toxic bs.

The blind trying to lead the blind

Christians aren't responsible for turning people away or bringing people to God. God brings you to him. We turn away.

Wow...really now

Read all of Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, then tell me that

"Let the dead bury the dead" One of the kindest Christians Ive ever known said that about me one time and it was more than true.

Maybe it still is

Btw, narcissistic/manipulative back and forth on a political forum is a bit different than genuine soul searching.

FYI...God is in control and uses it for His glory
You're judging the carnal, not discerning the Spirit

You don't know whose taking what, from what they're reading
and thirsty enough to seek, ask & knock elsewhere!

Stop trying to feed people solid food,
when, you yourself, are still drinking milk!

...and who are you...Im human, not a saint and I mess up quite often. Its just really hard to watch scum parade around when they did stuff behind the scenes that would make anyone's skin crawl.. Second and in regards to your "wow" statement. Im referring to the types who have a history of interjecting themselves into these conversations only to disrupt.
I wasn't trying to be "wise" and I do hear what you're saying about turning people away.
Yes God is in control...but he doesn't need anymore hypocritical Christians.( Im not talking about anyone on that thread)
If you reread it and have no bias, that conversation was pretty balanced and it wasn't done on purpose.

btw I'm drinking coffee not milk & I don't try to feed people anything. This is the only board that posts pics and has word-games and I find it fun. I only commented because someones post sounded really sincere and it seemed they are dealing with a lot.

~Saving grace is a free gift but it doesn't include molly coddling sin.~

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Most people with faith didn't just wake up in the morning and poof they believed .. it took searching for answers. Even the 12 disciples had lack of faith, until Jesus in the spirit came to them after 3 days dead..

Many were atheists , and agnostics who did ask God that if indeed He is real , show them.
Again it was not a poof experience .

How do you know he came to them as spirit after 3 days dead?

The problem is that Eaglewings ' description of Jesus coming to his followers "in the spirit" disputes the account of his own Holy Book. The Bible makes it clear that Jesus showed up, three days after his death, physically, not spiritually. There was even an account where he had one of them play with his wounds with their finger (picture that in your mind for a sec: "Here, Tommy. Wiggle that finger around in my wound. You know you want to..." Ew!)

In scripture the authors often did not mention that the eyewitness account of one thing or another was the eyewitness account of what was seen and heard during a dream like the transfiguration, when Abraham ate lunch with angels, ezekiel flew through the air from Babylon to Jerusalem with an angel holding him by the hair, or when Thomas stuck his finger in his wounds, Jesus popped in and out of a locked room, or floated up into the sky....

They probably assumed that the rational and intelligent reader would know that such things do not happen in actual reality..the superstitious would be diverted by their superstition, keeping the hidden teaching safe from perversion or repression by remaining above the grasp of any irrational enemies who would ironically preserve them mistaking scripture as a validation of their superstitions instead of the eventual cause of their undoing...

I have not come to bring peace but a sword, from his mouth there went a sharp sword, with which to smite the nations and all that...


Apparently, it still works like a charm.

So, basically the entire Bible is metaphor, hyperbole, and allegory. How convenient. This means that with a little imagination, I can make the Bible mean whatever i want it to. But, it's absolutely the truth, and should be taken seriously...

No, that does not mean that scripture can mean whatever you may want it to. Reality itself that you like to remind people about is a reliable and constant constraint on any given possible interpretation.

When Jesus said "Eat my flesh" there is only one way to interpret that that doesn't make him out to be insane.

When a nameless character in scripture says," How can he give us his flesh to eat?" it is a challenge for the intelligent reader to figure it out.

"No, that does not mean that scripture can mean whatever you may want it to."

Of course it does. we've already been over this. In fact, in that very discussion, you demanded that a single interpretation (yours, obviously) was the "correct" interpretation of a Bible story. yet even the most cursory look around shows that many people carry a different interpretation.

So, apparently, the sum total of your authority of the "correct" interpretation is "because you say so". Which makes the other poster's point!

"That you don't understand the metaphors and analogies "

^^ That's you, doing exactly what I described. You claim there is only one correct interpretation, and , apparently, that interpretation is your opinion. Fascinating.

 

[Czernobog]

Most people with faith didn't just wake up in the morning and poof they believed .. it took searching for answers. Even the 12 disciples had lack of faith, until Jesus in the spirit came to them after 3 days dead..

Many were atheists , and agnostics who did ask God that if indeed He is real , show them.
Again it was not a poof experience .

How do you know he came to them as spirit after 3 days dead?

The problem is that Eaglewings ' description of Jesus coming to his followers "in the spirit" disputes the account of his own Holy Book. The Bible makes it clear that Jesus showed up, three days after his death, physically, not spiritually. There was even an account where he had one of them play with his wounds with their finger (picture that in your mind for a sec: "Here, Tommy. Wiggle that finger around in my wound. You know you want to..." Ew!)

In scripture the authors often did not mention that the eyewitness account of one thing or another was the eyewitness account of what was seen and heard during a dream like the transfiguration, when Abraham ate lunch with angels, ezekiel flew through the air from Babylon to Jerusalem with an angel holding him by the hair, or when Thomas stuck his finger in his wounds, Jesus popped in and out of a locked room, or floated up into the sky....

They probably assumed that the rational and intelligent reader would know that such things do not happen in actual reality..the superstitious would be diverted by their superstition, keeping the hidden teaching safe from perversion or repression by remaining above the grasp of any irrational enemies who would ironically preserve them mistaking scripture as a validation of their superstitions instead of the eventual cause of their undoing...

I have not come to bring peace but a sword, from his mouth there went a sharp sword, with which to smite the nations and all that...


Apparently, it still works like a charm.

So, basically the entire Bible is metaphor, hyperbole, and allegory. How convenient. This means that with a little imagination, I can make the Bible mean whatever i want it to. But, it's absolutely the truth, and should be taken seriously...

No, that does not mean that scripture can mean whatever you may want it to. Reality itself that you like to remind people about is a reliable and constant constraint on any given possible interpretation.

When Jesus said "Eat my flesh" there is only one way to interpret that that doesn't make him out to be insane.

When a nameless character in scripture says," How can he give us his flesh to eat?" it is a challenge for the intelligent reader to figure it out.

Yeah...except that metaphor isn't just left up to the reader to figure out, like the rest of your alleged allegories. The writer very clearly describes Jesus picking up a loaf of unleaven bread, breaking it, and saying, "This is my body," Oh! Look! He made a METAPHOR!!!!!

You want us to believe that everything is metaphor...well, no, let's be clear; you want us to take the Bible literally, and seriously...right up until science proceeds to demonstrate that some ridiculous "miracle" or other event is impossible according to the known laws of physics. Then it's all, "Oh! Well, that part was allegory/dreamscape/metaphor all along, obviously! How fucking stupid of you to not realise that!" Except it was presented as allegory, dreamscape, or metaphor until it was demonstrated to have been physically impossible to have happened!

 

[hobelim]

How do you know he came to them as spirit after 3 days dead?

The problem is that Eaglewings ' description of Jesus coming to his followers "in the spirit" disputes the account of his own Holy Book. The Bible makes it clear that Jesus showed up, three days after his death, physically, not spiritually. There was even an account where he had one of them play with his wounds with their finger (picture that in your mind for a sec: "Here, Tommy. Wiggle that finger around in my wound. You know you want to..." Ew!)

In scripture the authors often did not mention that the eyewitness account of one thing or another was the eyewitness account of what was seen and heard during a dream like the transfiguration, when Abraham ate lunch with angels, ezekiel flew through the air from Babylon to Jerusalem with an angel holding him by the hair, or when Thomas stuck his finger in his wounds, Jesus popped in and out of a locked room, or floated up into the sky....

They probably assumed that the rational and intelligent reader would know that such things do not happen in actual reality..the superstitious would be diverted by their superstition, keeping the hidden teaching safe from perversion or repression by remaining above the grasp of any irrational enemies who would ironically preserve them mistaking scripture as a validation of their superstitions instead of the eventual cause of their undoing...

I have not come to bring peace but a sword, from his mouth there went a sharp sword, with which to smite the nations and all that...


Apparently, it still works like a charm.

So, basically the entire Bible is metaphor, hyperbole, and allegory. How convenient. This means that with a little imagination, I can make the Bible mean whatever i want it to. But, it's absolutely the truth, and should be taken seriously...

No, that does not mean that scripture can mean whatever you may want it to. Reality itself that you like to remind people about is a reliable and constant constraint on any given possible interpretation.

When Jesus said "Eat my flesh" there is only one way to interpret that that doesn't make him out to be insane.

When a nameless character in scripture says," How can he give us his flesh to eat?" it is a challenge for the intelligent reader to figure it out.

"No, that does not mean that scripture can mean whatever you may want it to."

Of course it does. we've already been over this. In fact, in that very discussion, you demanded that a single interpretation (yours, obviously) was the "correct" interpretation of a Bible story. yet even the most cursory look around shows that many people carry a different interpretation.

So, apparently, the sum total of your authority of the "correct" interpretation is "because you say so". Which makes the other poster's point!

Well yes, we have been over this before and again you are being dishonest.

I am not claiming anything about my interpretation, I am talking about the right interpretation. Not every interpretation is even admissible if reality is the constraint. Another constraint is that the stories are true.

Given that,the only way that the story of Jesus popping in and out of a locked room could be a truthful eyewitness account is if it was the eyewitness account of what was seen and heard in a dream, the only place where such things happen all the time.

 

[hobelim]

The writer very clearly describes Jesus picking up a loaf of unleaven bread, breaking it, and saying, "This is my body," Oh! Look! He made a METAPHOR!!!!!

Yup,

he said, "eat this."

What do you think he meant? lol....

 

[Czernobog]

Yes, I was there because I am here. 24 hours on earth has always been 24 hours on earth. I didn't have to be alive for millions of years to know what reality is and has always been like on earth.

I knew animals don't talk english, people don't float up into the clouds after they die, and storks don't deliver babies when I was 8 years old.
'
Whats taking you so long?

A day has not always been 24 hours long. The Earth's rotation has been slowly slowing down.



The Earth rotates once in about 24 hours with respect to the sun and once every 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4 seconds with respect to the stars (see below). Earth's rotation is slowing slightly with time; thus, a day was shorter in the past.
Earth's rotation - Wikipedia

Ugh.....lol....

Thanks professor...

still, a day is a day and has been for billions of years give or take a few milliseconds.....

Back to my point. How long was a day before the Earth was created, before the Sun was placed in the sky, before the division between night and day was miraculously provided for us by Almighty God?

I see.

The creation of heaven and earth happened only a few thousand years ago and has nothing whatever to do with the creation of the solar system.

To ask me how long a day was before that would be like asking me how long a day was before the discovery of America..


You should ask someone who thinks that Genesis is a story about something going on before there was a planet.

Lets see some facts to back yourself up...so far its Blah Blah Blah


.

Hey!!! Stay outa my lane! Get back in your own damned lane!!!

 

[Czernobog]

The writer very clearly describes Jesus picking up a loaf of unleaven bread, breaking it, and saying, "This is my body," Oh! Look! He made a METAPHOR!!!!!

Yup, lol...

he said, "eat this."

What do you think he meant?

Do you have a problem with reading comprehension. I don't have to think about what he meant. The writer of the story clearly described and told us what he meant. He clearly demonstrated the metaphor. And explained it.

 

[Czernobog]

The problem is that Eaglewings ' description of Jesus coming to his followers "in the spirit" disputes the account of his own Holy Book. The Bible makes it clear that Jesus showed up, three days after his death, physically, not spiritually. There was even an account where he had one of them play with his wounds with their finger (picture that in your mind for a sec: "Here, Tommy. Wiggle that finger around in my wound. You know you want to..." Ew!)

In scripture the authors often did not mention that the eyewitness account of one thing or another was the eyewitness account of what was seen and heard during a dream like the transfiguration, when Abraham ate lunch with angels, ezekiel flew through the air from Babylon to Jerusalem with an angel holding him by the hair, or when Thomas stuck his finger in his wounds, Jesus popped in and out of a locked room, or floated up into the sky....

They probably assumed that the rational and intelligent reader would know that such things do not happen in actual reality..the superstitious would be diverted by their superstition, keeping the hidden teaching safe from perversion or repression by remaining above the grasp of any irrational enemies who would ironically preserve them mistaking scripture as a validation of their superstitions instead of the eventual cause of their undoing...

I have not come to bring peace but a sword, from his mouth there went a sharp sword, with which to smite the nations and all that...


Apparently, it still works like a charm.

So, basically the entire Bible is metaphor, hyperbole, and allegory. How convenient. This means that with a little imagination, I can make the Bible mean whatever i want it to. But, it's absolutely the truth, and should be taken seriously...

No, that does not mean that scripture can mean whatever you may want it to. Reality itself that you like to remind people about is a reliable and constant constraint on any given possible interpretation.

When Jesus said "Eat my flesh" there is only one way to interpret that that doesn't make him out to be insane.

When a nameless character in scripture says," How can he give us his flesh to eat?" it is a challenge for the intelligent reader to figure it out.

"No, that does not mean that scripture can mean whatever you may want it to."

Of course it does. we've already been over this. In fact, in that very discussion, you demanded that a single interpretation (yours, obviously) was the "correct" interpretation of a Bible story. yet even the most cursory look around shows that many people carry a different interpretation.

So, apparently, the sum total of your authority of the "correct" interpretation is "because you say so". Which makes the other poster's point!

Well yes, we have been over this before and again you are being dishonest.

I am not claiming anything about my interpretation, I am talking about the right interpretation.

According to whom, and by what authority?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The problem is that Eaglewings ' description of Jesus coming to his followers "in the spirit" disputes the account of his own Holy Book. The Bible makes it clear that Jesus showed up, three days after his death, physically, not spiritually. There was even an account where he had one of them play with his wounds with their finger (picture that in your mind for a sec: "Here, Tommy. Wiggle that finger around in my wound. You know you want to..." Ew!)

In scripture the authors often did not mention that the eyewitness account of one thing or another was the eyewitness account of what was seen and heard during a dream like the transfiguration, when Abraham ate lunch with angels, ezekiel flew through the air from Babylon to Jerusalem with an angel holding him by the hair, or when Thomas stuck his finger in his wounds, Jesus popped in and out of a locked room, or floated up into the sky....

They probably assumed that the rational and intelligent reader would know that such things do not happen in actual reality..the superstitious would be diverted by their superstition, keeping the hidden teaching safe from perversion or repression by remaining above the grasp of any irrational enemies who would ironically preserve them mistaking scripture as a validation of their superstitions instead of the eventual cause of their undoing...

I have not come to bring peace but a sword, from his mouth there went a sharp sword, with which to smite the nations and all that...


Apparently, it still works like a charm.

So, basically the entire Bible is metaphor, hyperbole, and allegory. How convenient. This means that with a little imagination, I can make the Bible mean whatever i want it to. But, it's absolutely the truth, and should be taken seriously...

No, that does not mean that scripture can mean whatever you may want it to. Reality itself that you like to remind people about is a reliable and constant constraint on any given possible interpretation.

When Jesus said "Eat my flesh" there is only one way to interpret that that doesn't make him out to be insane.

When a nameless character in scripture says," How can he give us his flesh to eat?" it is a challenge for the intelligent reader to figure it out.

"No, that does not mean that scripture can mean whatever you may want it to."

Of course it does. we've already been over this. In fact, in that very discussion, you demanded that a single interpretation (yours, obviously) was the "correct" interpretation of a Bible story. yet even the most cursory look around shows that many people carry a different interpretation.

So, apparently, the sum total of your authority of the "correct" interpretation is "because you say so". Which makes the other poster's point!

Well yes, we have been over this before and again you are being dishonest.

I am not claiming anything about my interpretation, I am talking about the right interpretation. Not every interpretation is even admissible if reality is the constraint. Another constraint is that the stories are true.

Given that,the only way that the story of Jesus popping in and out of a locked room could be a truthful eyewitness account is if it was the eyewitness account of what was seen and heard in a dream, the only place where such things happen all the time.

", I am talking about the right interpretation. "

As wholly decided by your opinion. Exactly as I said. You are quite the double speaker.

 

[hobelim]

In scripture the authors often did not mention that the eyewitness account of one thing or another was the eyewitness account of what was seen and heard during a dream like the transfiguration, when Abraham ate lunch with angels, ezekiel flew through the air from Babylon to Jerusalem with an angel holding him by the hair, or when Thomas stuck his finger in his wounds, Jesus popped in and out of a locked room, or floated up into the sky....

They probably assumed that the rational and intelligent reader would know that such things do not happen in actual reality..the superstitious would be diverted by their superstition, keeping the hidden teaching safe from perversion or repression by remaining above the grasp of any irrational enemies who would ironically preserve them mistaking scripture as a validation of their superstitions instead of the eventual cause of their undoing...

I have not come to bring peace but a sword, from his mouth there went a sharp sword, with which to smite the nations and all that...


Apparently, it still works like a charm.

So, basically the entire Bible is metaphor, hyperbole, and allegory. How convenient. This means that with a little imagination, I can make the Bible mean whatever i want it to. But, it's absolutely the truth, and should be taken seriously...

No, that does not mean that scripture can mean whatever you may want it to. Reality itself that you like to remind people about is a reliable and constant constraint on any given possible interpretation.

When Jesus said "Eat my flesh" there is only one way to interpret that that doesn't make him out to be insane.

When a nameless character in scripture says," How can he give us his flesh to eat?" it is a challenge for the intelligent reader to figure it out.

"No, that does not mean that scripture can mean whatever you may want it to."

Of course it does. we've already been over this. In fact, in that very discussion, you demanded that a single interpretation (yours, obviously) was the "correct" interpretation of a Bible story. yet even the most cursory look around shows that many people carry a different interpretation.

So, apparently, the sum total of your authority of the "correct" interpretation is "because you say so". Which makes the other poster's point!

Well yes, we have been over this before and again you are being dishonest.

I am not claiming anything about my interpretation, I am talking about the right interpretation. Not every interpretation is even admissible if reality is the constraint. Another constraint is that the stories are true.

Given that,the only way that the story of Jesus popping in and out of a locked room could be a truthful eyewitness account is if it was the eyewitness account of what was seen and heard in a dream, the only place where such things happen all the time.

", I am talking about the right interpretation. "

As wholly decided by your opinion. Exactly as I said. You are quite the double speaker.

No, the intended teaching was in writing long before I was born and has nothing whatever to do with what I can see or don't see.

I am challenging you to take a stand on what that teaching could be now that you have been taught how to look at the subject... by me,.

 

[hobelim]

According to whom, and by what authority?

I am Keystone in the Yahad of God; the habitation of light.

lol... only kidding..

By the authority of a functioning brain according to anyone who has the mental acuity to figure out the complicated and deep mystery of the meaning of a talking serpent.

If you want to argue science to disprove what scripture is not about with people who don't know what its about any better than you, just go right ahead...


I'll just pull up a chair with a few friends, have some drinks, laugh my ass off and enjoy the show...

 

[Czernobog]

According to whom, and by what authority?

I am Keystone in the Yahad of God; the habitation of light.

lol... only kidding..

By the authority of a functioning brain according to anyone who has the mental acuity to figure out the complicated and deep mystery of the meaning of a talking serpent.

If you want to argue science to disprove what scripture is not about with people who don't know what its about any better than you, just go right ahead...


I'll just pull up a chair with a few friends, have some drinks, laugh my ass off and enjoy the show...

So, according to you, is what you are saying. You haven't provided any other source for this interpretation of your. Which brings us right back to what Fort Fun said. It is your interpretation, which you have declared the "right" interpretation.

 

[Eaglewings]

You seem to think that a christian is less intelligent than a atheist..

No. I don't think that Christians are less intelligent that Atheists. Nor Muslims, Hindus, or any other, otherwise intelligent person, who, for reasons that boggle my mind, wilfully choose to ignore reason in favour of fantasy, mythology, and superstition.

Ask most Christians if they are afraid of Friday the 13th, or if they avoid walking under ladders, or if they get skitchy around black cats, and they look at you as if you are a moron, and they are shocked that you had the mental capacity to tie your own shoes that morning. Ask them if they left a cup of milk out for the gmoes, so they wouldn't break in at night to break their things, or if they had ever seen the Troll living under the bridge, or if the Elves had come to visit on a full moon, and they will wonder to themselves if they should be calling someone to fit you for one of those nice, self-hugging jackets.

Yet, these same rational, reasonable people, somehow, manage to turn off their reason, and buy in, whole hog, to the irrational idea that there is some magic, invisible Sky Man that made us, the planet, and the whole universe, without a single shred of objective, observable, verifiable evidence to support such an idea. It makes my head hurt.

Most people with faith didn't just wake up in the morning and poof they believed .. it took searching for answers. Even the 12 disciples had lack of faith, until Jesus in the spirit came to them after 3 days dead..

Many were atheists , and agnostics who did ask God that if indeed He is real , show them.
Again it was not a poof experience .

How do you know he came to them as spirit after 3 days dead?

The problem is that Eaglewings ' description of Jesus coming to his followers "in the spirit" disputes the account of his own Holy Book. The Bible makes it clear that Jesus showed up, three days after his death, physically, not spiritually. There was even an account where he had one of them play with his wounds with their finger (picture that in your mind for a sec: "Here, Tommy. Wiggle that finger around in my wound. You know you want to..." Ew!)

Jesus’ own words showed that he would not be resurrected with his flesh-and-blood body. He said that he would give his “flesh in behalf of the life of the world,” as a ransom for mankind. (John 6:51; Matthew 20:28) If he had taken back his flesh when he was resurrected, he would have canceled that ransom sacrifice. This could not have happened, though, for the Bible says that he sacrificed his flesh and blood “once for all time.”—Hebrews 9:11, 12.

 

[Eaglewings]

You seem to think that a christian is less intelligent than a atheist..

No. I don't think that Christians are less intelligent that Atheists. Nor Muslims, Hindus, or any other, otherwise intelligent person, who, for reasons that boggle my mind, wilfully choose to ignore reason in favour of fantasy, mythology, and superstition.

Ask most Christians if they are afraid of Friday the 13th, or if they avoid walking under ladders, or if they get skitchy around black cats, and they look at you as if you are a moron, and they are shocked that you had the mental capacity to tie your own shoes that morning. Ask them if they left a cup of milk out for the gmoes, so they wouldn't break in at night to break their things, or if they had ever seen the Troll living under the bridge, or if the Elves had come to visit on a full moon, and they will wonder to themselves if they should be calling someone to fit you for one of those nice, self-hugging jackets.

Yet, these same rational, reasonable people, somehow, manage to turn off their reason, and buy in, whole hog, to the irrational idea that there is some magic, invisible Sky Man that made us, the planet, and the whole universe, without a single shred of objective, observable, verifiable evidence to support such an idea. It makes my head hurt.

After thought.. really pay attention to this because this may answer your question.

we have 2 significant parts of our brain... the Conscious part which talks to the Sub-Conscious to either quite down a behavior or continue a behavior by our outside influences..
Outside influences means what we feed our conscious on a daily basis.

Your decisions are made in your sub-conscious before your conscious even knows it.. ( link a few post back on how this is scientifically proven )

Your Sub-conscious is on while you sleep, and when you wake up your conscious turns off the autopilot and takes over.

I do feel that our un-conscious brain connects to God and our spirit , this is why many stories in the bible have God coming to them in a dream. Or people wake up from a family member saying they are ok after dying, or a person wakes up person can dream of their future and what they need to do.



When we wake up our conscious takes over and evaluates your surroundings ..this is why you forget dreams.

I honestly do believe people who have faith are connected with the sub-conscious by the stimuli of their experiences and studies.. .
While I do believe and atheist stays mostly in the conscious mode making decisions with what they see in front of them..


I can almost guarantee that this is what goes on..


.

You know, it's interesting that you should mention the subconscious, because the subconscious is also responsible for nearly all magical thinking, such as Wade Boggs believing that the reason his batting average was so good because he ate chicken before every game. "There are many layers of belief," psychologist Carol Nemeroff says. "And the answer for many people, especially with regard to magic, is, 'Most of me doesn't believe but some of me does.'" People will often acknowledge their gut reaction and say it makes no sense to act on it—but do it anyway. Other times, they'll incorporate superstition into their worldview alongside other explanations. "For example," says Susan Gelman, a psychologist at the University of Michigan, "God puts you in the path of an HIV-positive lover, but biology causes you to contract the virus from his semen."

So, the question still remains, if one is rational enough to recognise the fantasy of superstitions, which also have their root in our subconscious, why are they incapable of recognising the equally irrational basis of God mythologies?

Our believe system is in our Conscious, not our Subconscious ... We do not have any control of the Subconscious But... like an addict who needs to change his/her Conscious influences to keep the Subconscious calmed down..
For instance:
Because addiction changes the brain forever. Many people are shocked to find themselves relapse, the Subconscious already made that decision because of not using the tools for sobriety in the Conscious.

Believes like superstition , magic, and a higher power, faith is a conscious decision..


.