Atheism takes courage

[GreenBean]

See ABo

Worship a God that is invisible to the human eye?

See Above ^^^^

 

[Czernobog]

But I can still mock those who believe in imaginary creatures and magic

God is a spiritual being, not an imaginary creature. People do have spiritual experiences, indicating we are not just a physical organism controlled solely by the physical matter we call the brain. Many of us believe (based on experience) there is more to our consciousness than that, and we name this "spirit."

Except you believe that with no evidence. The consciousness can be observed, and measured. The "spirit"? Not so much. You speak of the "Spirit" as if it is a demonstrable fact - one that has been empirically evidenced, and then go on to talk about individual, subjective experience, and belief.

There is zero empirical evidence that "spiritual creatures" exist. Rightwinger was quite right; "God" belongs in the same category as leprechauns, ghosts, and boggharts. They're fun to tell stories about, but have no place in the rational world.

 

[Czernobog]

I am an animal and all animals die eventually. Why is that so hard to accept?

But if you send me $50 every week, I will make sure you can live forever

All animals die ? Are you sure about that, I thought all dogs went to heaven. On a more serious note however - You don't know that for a fact, you can't prove it beyond the shadow of a doubt. You can't prove there is no such thing as a soul, but some researchers, [and not all of them are quacks], have demonstrated the possibility of a hereafter, reincarnation, yada yada yada

A theory from Dr. Robert Lanza states that death as we presently define it is an illusion ... The body itself does not generate consciousness, it lives on after the body dies. They have identified " microtubules " within brain cells ... theory goes on to postulate that the experience of consciousness as we know it is the product of quantum gravity effects in these microtubules.

Now 'rightwinger' I do realize that you only have a few brain cells to work with but perhaps you might be able to grasp some of the basics of biocentrism - Biocentrism

I can't prove there are really no leprechauns or fairies....just because you can't see them doesn't mean they are not there

But I can still mock those who believe in imaginary creatures and magic

We can't see radio waves - but we know they exist. We can't see atoms but we know they exist. We can't see dark matter but we know it exists. We can't see Gravity but we know it exists and we can't see time but we know it exists . and..

We can't see our thoughts but we know they exist. Along with our thoughts is our mind and within our minds / brain cells exist the "God Particle" .....

Once again, you think it is only about physically seeing; it's not. There is empirical evidence of the existence of radio waves. There is empirical, measurable evidence of atoms. There is measurable, empirical evidence of the existence of dark matter. Are you beginning to see a pattern here?

It is not a question of whether we can see something with the naked eye; it is a question of the existence of observable, objective, measurable, verifiable evidence. That exists for all of the things you listed. God, fairies, leprechauns, ghosts, and ghoulies, the "soul"? Not so much.

I will happily concede the existence of all of those things; just bring me objective, quantifiable, observable, verifiable evidence to support their existence.

 

[Czernobog]

See ABo

Worship a God that is invisible to the human eye?

See Above ^^^^

You are quite right. I misspoke. I shouldn't have said, "...invisible to the human eye" I should have said for which there is not a single shred of objective, observable, quantifiable, verifiable evidence. That would have been more accurate.

 

[GreenBean]

not a single shred of objective, observable, quantifiable, verifiable evidence.

See Biocentrism

 

[Meriweather]

Except you believe that with no evidence. The consciousness can be observed, and measured. The "spirit"? Not so much. You speak of the "Spirit" as if it is a demonstrable fact - one that has been empirically evidenced, and then go on to talk about individual, subjective experience, and belief.

There is zero empirical evidence that "spiritual creatures" exist. Rightwinger was quite right; "God" belongs in the same category as leprechauns, ghosts, and boggharts. They're fun to tell stories about, but have no place in the rational world.

Evidence requires physical matter. What believers offer is experience. Experience, especially experience that has been noted down through all cultures and eras, should not be summarily dismissed because it is not "evidence". I note that you are willing to call "spirit", consciousness. That's a step towards common ground.

So, please, stop yammering about evidence! We all understand we are not speaking of the physical world, and when we are not speaking of the physical world, evidence does.not.play.a.part. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

 

[Czernobog]

not a single shred of objective, observable, quantifiable, verifiable evidence.

See Biocentrism

Biocentrism is a philosophy, not a empirical evidence. "is an ethical point of view that extends inherent value to all living things." It is empirical evidence of nothing.

 

[MarkDuffy]

Except you believe that with no evidence. The consciousness can be observed, and measured. The "spirit"? Not so much. You speak of the "Spirit" as if it is a demonstrable fact - one that has been empirically evidenced, and then go on to talk about individual, subjective experience, and belief.

There is zero empirical evidence that "spiritual creatures" exist. Rightwinger was quite right; "God" belongs in the same category as leprechauns, ghosts, and boggharts. They're fun to tell stories about, but have no place in the rational world.

Evidence requires physical matter. What believers offer is experience. Experience, especially experience that has been noted down through all cultures and eras, should not be summarily dismissed because it is not "evidence". I note that you are willing to call "spirit", consciousness. That's a step towards common ground.

So, please, stop yammering about evidence! We all understand we are not speaking of the physical world, and when we are not speaking of the physical world, evidence does.not.play.a.part. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

Evidence requires physical matter.

LOL, no it doesn't

What believers offer is experience.

Experience of what, hallucinations?

We all understand we are not speaking of the physical world

There is only the physical world. You all claim some non-physical, but that can interact with the physical. You admit it yourselves, it is all physical or there would be no interaction.

 

[Czernobog]

Except you believe that with no evidence. The consciousness can be observed, and measured. The "spirit"? Not so much. You speak of the "Spirit" as if it is a demonstrable fact - one that has been empirically evidenced, and then go on to talk about individual, subjective experience, and belief.

There is zero empirical evidence that "spiritual creatures" exist. Rightwinger was quite right; "God" belongs in the same category as leprechauns, ghosts, and boggharts. They're fun to tell stories about, but have no place in the rational world.

Evidence requires physical matter. What believers offer is experience. Experience, especially experience that has been noted down through all cultures and eras, should not be summarily dismissed because it is not "evidence". I note that you are willing to call "spirit", consciousness. That's a step towards common ground.

So, please, stop yammering about evidence! We all understand we are not speaking of the physical world, and when we are not speaking of the physical world, evidence does.not.play.a.part. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

I understand it perfectly. That is what makes it imaginary. If you are happy imagining some mythical magic man who looks over your shoulder, yay you. But, please do not try to convince those of us who value reason that your dogmatic belief in an imaginary friend is rational.

 

[MarkDuffy]

Fairy Tale #1: In The Beginning.

So if I get this right, God (Mr. Yahweh) created the Universe 13.8 billion years ago but eventually got tired and bored with it. Fast forward to some 4.5 billion years ago and He added to His real estate empire by creating The Earth (as well as the Sun and the rest of the solar system). Ultimately He got bored with this hunk of sterile rock and so some 4 billion years ago He created little microbes for His amusement, but ultimately after a few billion years He got bored with them too - they weren't very good company or worshippers. So some 500 - 600 million years ago He upped the ante and created multi-cellular critters, and then other types of multi-cellular critters, etc., etc., etc, all of which also proved to be rather indifferent company and didn't worship Him either. What a bummer! Then at long, long, long last comes His "Eureka" moment (several million years ago) and He created those primate 'humans' and ultimately He evolved them into modern humans some 200,000 years ago. Bad mistake! To make a long temporal story even longer, He almost immediately thereafter regretted His creation of humans (and of multi-cellular critters too) and drowned nearly the whole lot of them. So much for His omniscience!

So it takes God a minimum of 13.8 billion years to get around to creating (and then nearly destroying) the alleged pinnacle of His creation (i.e. - us). How likely is that scenario? Damned unlikely for a real deity!

Atheism's Arguments Against God? | Closer to Truth

 

[MarkDuffy]

Compare trump and God

First trump

Donald Trump could 'shoot somebody and not lose voters' - CNNPolitics

Now God

Noah and the Flood

We report, You decide

 

[ChrisL]

It takes common sense...Where is the evidence for god? There isn't.

It makes it even easier when believers abuse their beliefs and elect monsters into public office that hurt people. I see this and it turn me off from even considering relgiion.

First, as Mr. Twain once observed, "Common Sense" isn't really all that common. Second, human beings are, by nature, social creatures. Humans crave acceptance, and solidarity. I think for an atheist to opine about how "easy" it is to stand by his insistence on rational evidence to drive his world-view is kinda arrogant, and ignores the natural drives, and desires of humans. I'm not suggesting that atheism isn't the rational choice; it clearly is. However, to brag about how easy it is? I mean, after years of being an atheist, it certainly becomes easier. However, to take that first step out from the comfortable masses requires great strength, courage, and self-confidence.

Well, what makes it really difficult is that believers see it as a "personal attack" on them if you dare to question their beliefs or make comments or state your own beliefs about their beliefs. They really, really hate to be questioned or doubted. I find it rather interesting how some thousands years old belief system can still have such a choke hold on some people. Fear of death/dying? Fear of the unknown? Fear of admitting or even considering that you may be wrong? I don't know. I accept the fact that I MAY be wrong. However, when I take in religion and try to make 2+2=4, it just never works out!

 

[ChrisL]

It's such a catch 22. You know what I'm saying?

 

[Eaglewings]

Every few months, I run into someone like you. Someone who thinks they're "different". They're not "religious". Oh, no! You have a "relationship", not a religion!

And I have to disabuse them of their delusion of particularity.

11 simple reality checks:

1. Worship a God that is invisible to the human eye? (Yes)
2. Have a Holy Book in which your God tells you how to live? (Yes)
3. Believe in an afterlife where you will be judged according to your beliefs, actions, and life choices? (Yes. If you claim otherwise, I can give you chapter and verse, in the New Testament. You either believe what is in the Bible, or you don't; that is up to you, but you can't claim to be a Christian, and not believe what is in the bible)
4. Believe that by being born into this world you were somehow afflicted with a disease called "sin, and that only your God is able to rescue you from this mortal affliction? (Yes)
   
5. Reject all other gods as false, with only your God being worthy of worship, and adoration? (Yes)
6. Pray to your God? (Yes)
7. Believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was your God that created the Universe (Yes)
8. Have complete faith that your particular holy book is the only one in which the written accounts can be trusted completely, and contain the will of your god? (Yes)
9. Attend regular gatherings arranged and led by experts of your particular belief system? (Yes)
10. Think its possible to know what your god's exact purpose is for your life, even though you cannot prove that he exists? (Yes)
11. Value having a "strong faith" above what can be learned from science and empirical observation, logic, and reason? (Yes)

Now, I would concede that you may dispute 9, and 11. perhaps you don't go to church regularly, and you may insist that you value science - although I could probably put that claim to the test, but we'll let it go for now - however, that still leaves the vast majority of those questions being "Yes".

So, you can call it a "relationship", if that makes you feel special, but what you follow is a religion, just like all the other theists.

And I have had many talks with people like you who think they are so much smarter and stronger than a person with faith...lol...


Ok... I enjoy a challenge

Worship a God that is invisible to the human eye?

1. Lets look at the 5 senses for instance..

Smell: You smell something that triggers something like hunger, love or calmness.. You can not see smell , but you know it is there because of what your body is telling you.. To some that part of the body is called our spirit, every single spirit and mind completely different with different experiences..

You can not see smell...

Hearing: You hear things like a car, your moms voice , music, that trigger emotion. You feel it but you can not see it..

Hearing is invisible

Touch:A blind person can touch a staircase railing and knows it will take them down a staircase ... or as an adult we know the stove is hot because we have been burned.

Touching is invisible

Taste:
Think about this next time you take a bite of something you love ... you crave it .

Tasting is invisible..

Seeing: ok since this is a visual let me put it to you this way.... Have you ever looked at someone while in line at a light, or grocery store even from behind them, and they look back at you.. ? Many can feel that with their spirit and turn to see who is looking at them.. Because we are all spiritually connected.. Try it sometime.

Now each one of these senses trigger the brain ( which have been proven by the way the brain lights up in scanning tests..)

Each one of these senses release hormones called dopamine in the pleasure center of the brain.

When a person experiences the Holy Spirit , it does the same thing to the brain and spirit. Just like the 5 senses that we cannot visibly see , we recognize what it is. And the longer that you have experiences with it, the easier you recognize it.

~
The Bible

A Bible is a guideline, like a dictionary to a writer. .. especially the New Testament.

But in many cases people exploit it to justify their hate, or self gain twist it around and make shit up.

~

With the afterlife : It says in the bible that we will be surprised who makes it into the kingdom, and who doesn't..

Again,the Bible is a tool, you don't have to believe word for word but if you look into some of the parables and dig deep ,their is usually a life lesson.
For instance "The Prodigal Son"
One son took off and spent his inheritance against what his father stood for...he became poor . The other brother stayed home and took care of business never spent a dime.
The broke son eating garbage was welcomed home without a mention of what he did.. The other brother got mad, and said he ruined his life why are you overlooking that..And the father said..
“‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

This parable is about loving us no matter how messed up we are..

~Praying is a meditation to quite the soul , it is a way of turning inward finding peace with something that is out of our control to fix.
And again like the 5 senses many can feel the spirit of God and the hormone dopamine is released into the body giving comfort.

~God in the universe

If you sit and really study your surroundings,the beauty, the art of a simple plant.. The body and the brain, the ocean and the in the universe this was not done by accident.. There is a master painter..
Not one of us on earth is the same.. perhaps identical in the flesh but not the spirit..and a big bang could not create the depth of what is within us and surrounding us

.~Christian Gatherings.. Have you ever met up with someone who had the same heart surgery as you? Or maybe talked to someone in the waiting room about their experience with your doctor..It is awesome to find that connection and is in many ways healing. You ask them about their experience or read up on that doctor..You trusted that this doctor with the knife going into your heart was not made by mistake, you studied and trusted him..
This is why we have support groups for just about anything


Value having a "strong faith" above what can be learned from science and empirical observation, logic, and reason

This is the most important question~

We are still pioneers in our study with the brain, we are still studying Frontotemporal lobar degeneration , let alone the Posttemporal and how we tick.

Perhaps they will find out in days ahead that those who have a spiritual connection use a part of the brain that we haven't explored yet.

Let me ask you this:

Show me where science has proven 100% that God does not exist?


.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Religion is a powerful thing. With religion, and some basic brainwashing skills, one can talk some people into flying airplanes into buildings. That has always amazed me. I just can not relate to that mindset.

 

[rightwinger]

I am an animal and all animals die eventually. Why is that so hard to accept?

But if you send me $50 every week, I will make sure you can live forever

All animals die ? Are you sure about that, I thought all dogs went to heaven. On a more serious note however - You don't know that for a fact, you can't prove it beyond the shadow of a doubt. You can't prove there is no such thing as a soul, but some researchers, [and not all of them are quacks], have demonstrated the possibility of a hereafter, reincarnation, yada yada yada

A theory from Dr. Robert Lanza states that death as we presently define it is an illusion ... The body itself does not generate consciousness, it lives on after the body dies. They have identified " microtubules " within brain cells ... theory goes on to postulate that the experience of consciousness as we know it is the product of quantum gravity effects in these microtubules.

Now 'rightwinger' I do realize that you only have a few brain cells to work with but perhaps you might be able to grasp some of the basics of biocentrism - Biocentrism

I can't prove there are really no leprechauns or fairies....just because you can't see them doesn't mean they are not there

But I can still mock those who believe in imaginary creatures and magic

Re: Leprechauns and fairies ... I could go on and on about how legends and myths are so frequently born out of a smidgen of truth and ancestral memory but it would be way off topic.

We can't see radio waves - but we know they exist. We can't see atoms but we know they exist. We can't see dark matter but we know it exists. We can't see Gravity but we know it exists and we can't see time but we know it exists . and..

We can't see our thoughts but we know they exist. Along with our thoughts is our mind and within our minds / brain cells exist the "God Particle" .....

We can easily detect and measure radio waves and can split an atom

Show me any scientific evidence of God and I will provide scientific evidence of Leprechauns

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Just a bit of insight on what it means to be an atheist. It's actually easier to allow one's self to believe in God than it is to be an atheist. Being an atheist means there is no Devil to blame, no afterlife to reunite with loved ones, no personal cosmic bodyguard, only one life to live, personal responsibility for one's thoughts, actions, and prosperity, or lack thereof, lack of acceptance from a religion infused society, and no easy explanation for our existence.

Atheism is not for the weak.

I do not believe in the Devil because the true nature of humans have always been evil and selfish...

( Cain and Able )

I also do not believe in Heaven either and believe we are reborn over and over until this planet fades into a black hole...

Now as for a divine!?!

Who the hell knows but I can say I have seen miracles in my life that science or logic can not explain...

 

[Vandalshandle]

Just a bit of insight on what it means to be an atheist. It's actually easier to allow one's self to believe in God than it is to be an atheist. Being an atheist means there is no Devil to blame, no afterlife to reunite with loved ones, no personal cosmic bodyguard, only one life to live, personal responsibility for one's thoughts, actions, and prosperity, or lack thereof, lack of acceptance from a religion infused society, and no easy explanation for our existence.

Atheism is not for the weak.

I do not believe in the Devil because the true nature of humans have always been evil and selfish...

( Cain and Able )

I also do not believe in Heaven either and believe we are reborn over and over until this planet fades into a black hole...

Now as for a divine!?!

Who the hell knows but I can say I have seen miracles in my life that science or logic can not explain...

I, too, have seen things that logical, reasoning, and science can not explain, but I don't give credit to divine intervention for Trump.....

 

[Meriweather]

What believers offer is experience.

Experience of what, hallucinations?

There is only the physical world. You all claim some non-physical, but that can interact with the physical. You admit it yourselves, it is all physical or there would be no interaction.

Experience of a reality, which you dismiss as "hallucination", which is used as a tool to end further discussion and thought expansion. Why try to stop discussion/exploration? Unless there is fear of what might be found? Isn't this acting like people who used to fear sailing too far out into the ocean would result in falling off?

There are two ways to react to exploration: The first is to fear it so much that one settles for what is. These are the settlers, whom you represent. The second is to actually step beyond the comfort zone and what is known, into the unknown. These are the explorers, represented by many believers. If you wish to settle, not a problem. It won't stop the explorers.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Just a bit of insight on what it means to be an atheist. It's actually easier to allow one's self to believe in God than it is to be an atheist. Being an atheist means there is no Devil to blame, no afterlife to reunite with loved ones, no personal cosmic bodyguard, only one life to live, personal responsibility for one's thoughts, actions, and prosperity, or lack thereof, lack of acceptance from a religion infused society, and no easy explanation for our existence.

Atheism is not for the weak.

I do not believe in the Devil because the true nature of humans have always been evil and selfish...

( Cain and Able )

I also do not believe in Heaven either and believe we are reborn over and over until this planet fades into a black hole...

Now as for a divine!?!

Who the hell knows but I can say I have seen miracles in my life that science or logic can not explain...

I, too, have seen things that logical, reasoning, and science can not explain, but I don't give credit to divine intervention for Trump.....

Trump and him winning was not divine at all!

You must be CONfusing me with someone that believe the Universe blessed us with Trump when it was just luck!