There are other theories and I'm content to say nothing has been proven.How can you say that if you have no evidence to counter it? Do you have some other way the CMB could have been produced? Where is your evidence for your beliefs?
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There are other theories and I'm content to say nothing has been proven.How can you say that if you have no evidence to counter it? Do you have some other way the CMB could have been produced? Where is your evidence for your beliefs?
I don't know what spacetime is so how could I know when it came to be?Do you have any evidence for the laws of nature not existing before space and time? Because I do. I just presented it, right?
The Letters of FSM. Translated from the Greek I presume.You'd have to tell me what the argument for the FSM is before I could answer that question.
Your memory or reading comprehension is rather poor today. I am agnostic on the existence of a Universe Creator. What I generally dismiss, due to the overwhelming evidence, is that the Creator is the God of Abraham.But what I can tell you is that you routinely dismiss the evidence for the existence of a Creator without having evidence to do so.
Those of us who believe in Him know he is immortal, invisible and God only wise who lives in our hearts. It is no surprise that those who are unbelievers cannot perceive his gracious presence as hidden from our eyes as well as theirs. We cannot see love, but we know in our hearts that His love is available to all who have believed in Him, sought and experienced his faithful love, kindness, and favor. In Him is peace with joy and rejoicing. Peace on Earth exists within the heart, wherever believers call upon his name or his son's name. In Him, there no darkness is.How did you establish there's no proof? that claim means that everything that exists can in no way demonstrate God's existence, that a sweeping and unscientific claim to make.
Where's your evidence? The CMB is literally evidence which has no other explanation.If you see a closed door, you don't know what, if anything, is inside. You can guess, you can theorize, but you can't know. There are many theories about what predated the BB but little evidence.
The question of what existed before the Big Bang is one of the most profound and challenging in cosmology and philosophy. Here are some perspectives on the topic:
1. Singularity Hypothesis
- Explanation: According to this idea, the universe was initially in an extremely hot, dense state called a singularity, where the laws of physics as we know them break down. Time and space as we understand them began with the Big Bang, so asking what happened "before" may not be meaningful in the conventional sense.
2. Quantum Fluctuations
- Explanation: Some theories suggest that the universe could have emerged from a quantum vacuum fluctuation. In quantum mechanics, even "empty" space can experience fluctuations, potentially giving rise to the Big Bang.
3. Multiverse Theory
- Explanation: One hypothesis posits that our universe is just one of many in a larger multiverse. In this scenario, the Big Bang might be just one event in an infinite series of universes being born, with no definitive "before" because time might not be linear across different universes.
4. Cyclic or Oscillating Universe
- Explanation: Some theories propose that the universe goes through endless cycles of Big Bangs and Big Crunches (where the universe collapses back into a singularity and then explodes again). In this view, our Big Bang might be just the latest in a series of such events, with no true beginning or end.
5. Philosophical and Theological Views
- Explanation: Some perspectives argue that the concept of "before the Big Bang" might be beyond human comprehension, requiring a different framework of understanding, potentially involving metaphysical or theological explanations. For instance, some religious interpretations suggest that a divine entity could exist outside of time and space, initiating the Big Bang.
6. Unknowns and Limits of Science
- Explanation: It's also possible that current scientific tools and theories are insufficient to fully explain what existed before the Big Bang, and it might remain one of the great mysteries of the universe.
Summary:
The question of what existed before the Big Bang touches on the boundaries of science and philosophy. Theories range from scientific models like quantum fluctuations and multiverse concepts to more speculative or philosophical ideas. However, there is no definitive answer, and it remains an area of active inquiry and debate.
When you've lost the battle change wars?The Letters of FSM. Translated from the Greek I presume.
Your memory or reading comprehension is rather poor today. I am agnostic on the existence of a Universe Creator. What I generally dismiss, due to the overwhelming evidence, is that the Creator is the God of Abraham.
Do you have any evidence that says the CMB wasn't created from paired particle production?There are other theories and I'm content to say nothing has been proven.
Really? You don't know what spacetime is and you are in a conversation about the origin of the universe?I don't know what spacetime is so how could I know when it came to be?
The thing is the EVIDENCE says it's not. The EVIDENCE says the universe popped into existence. Would you say you are big on EVIDENCE unless it's something you don't want to believe?The BB may have been an event we can't comprehend, like a spacetime/energy/matter phase change.
The thread's title is what I'm saying:What are you saying this means. Good grief!
Why post the video when it does in no way show Hitchens admit to defeat. That's just stupid.The thread's title is what I'm saying:
Atheist Hitchens admits defeat after debating the theist John Lennox
So what is the 'only' explanation? Creation by a supernatural intelligence? What is your evidence besides the fact the universe exists and you don't know of any other way it could have happened? Do you know how this act of creation was accomplished? Do you know anything about this Creator beyond it or them being powerful and intelligent?Where's your evidence? The CMB is literally evidence which has no other explanation.
And you don't think you have religious dogma.
My position has not changed.When you've lost the battle change wars?
None. I also have no evidence the CMB was not the work of the FSM.Do you have any evidence that says the CMB wasn't created from paired particle production?
I really don't know, please tell me what it is. What is it made of? How does it get distorted by mass? Is it empty or full of energy? How many dimensions does it contain? Is it in our universe or is our universe in it?Really? You don't know what spacetime is and you are in a conversation about the origin of the universe?
Not all evidence is equally compelling or convincing. You may be convinced you have the answer, I am not.The thing is the EVIDENCE says it's not. The EVIDENCE says the universe popped into existence. Would you say you are big on EVIDENCE unless it's something you don't want to believe?
Paired particle production is the only explanation for the CMB.So what is the 'only' explanation? Creation by a supernatural intelligence? What is your evidence besides the fact the universe exists and you don't know of any other way it could have happened? Do you know how this act of creation was accomplished? Do you know anything about this Creator beyond it or them being powerful and intelligent?
The reality is you are still arguing against a creator even though you tried to say you were agnostic about a creator but were certain it's not the God of Abraham.My position has not changed.
You also have no reasonable narrative for the FSM. And by that I mean if you had said the FSM was eternal and unchanging, creating, moralistic, providential and the source of natural rights, I'd be able to say that narrative of the FSM is consistent with my study of what was created. But that's not what you have done. You throw the FSM out like you do Santa. Which is to say no basis of reason; no thoughtfulness whatsoever; just an argument devoid of intellect. It's just a really dumb argument.None. I also have no evidence the CMB was not the work of the FSM.