Australia: Wind Power is Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels and Solar is Right Behind

[Star]

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In Australia, Wind Power is Already Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels and Solar is Right Behind

Jeff Spross
11 February 2013

According to the latest research from Bloomberg New Energy Finance, electricity from wind power can now be supplied more cheaply in Australia than power from either coal or natural gas — and solar and other forms of renewable energy aren’t far behind.
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[bripat9643]

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In Australia, Wind Power is Already Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels and Solar is Right Behind

Jeff Spross
11 February 2013

According to the latest research from Bloomberg New Energy Finance, electricity from wind power can now be supplied more cheaply in Australia than power from either coal or natural gas — and solar and other forms of renewable energy aren’t far behind.
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You're serious?

 

[Old Rocks]

Renewable energy now cheaper than new fossil fuels in Australia | Bloomberg New Energy Finance

“It is very unlikely that new coal-fired power stations will be built in Australia. They are just too expensive now, compared to renewables”, said Kobad Bhavnagri, head of clean energy research for Bloomberg New Energy Finance in Australia. “Even baseload gas may struggle to compete with renewables. Australia is unlikely to require new baseload capacity until after 2020, and by this time wind and large-scale PV should be significantly cheaper than burning expensive, export-priced gas. By 2020-30 we will be finding new and innovative ways to deal with the intermittency of wind and solar, so it is quite conceivable that we could leapfrog straight from coal to renewables to reduce emissions as carbon prices rise.” he added.

Before that time, clean energy investment will be driven up, and power sector emissions down, only with the support of Australia’s Large-scale Renewable Energy Target. Despite compelling economics for new-build renewables today, Australia’s fleet of coal-fired power stations built by state governments in the 1970s and 1980s can still produce power at lower cost than renewables, because their original construction cost has now been depreciated.

“New wind is cheaper than building new coal and gas, but cannot compete with old assets that have already been paid off,” Bhavnagri said. “For that reason policy support is still needed to put megawatts in the ground today and build up the skills and experience to de-carbonise the energy system in the long-term.”

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Gas from Asia is stupidly expensive in Australia, but that price will collapse in 3 years, plus they have a carbon tax.

 

[Ernie S.]

Especially when the Aussis put a /ton tax on carbon....
But yes electricity can be made cheaply with wind power. My question is: What happens when the wind stops blowing? A coal plant has to come on line to keep the grid up. And you don't just push a button and start a coal plant. It takes about 24 hours from a cold start, from what I read, or about an hour from stand-by mode. The problem being stand-by consumes about 75% of the fuel of normal operation.

Figure out a way to store the energy produced by wind and solar and you have a viable technology.
Maybe it's using the power to make hydrogen for fuel cells and letting the fuel cells power the grid. Maybe it's what used to be done with some hydro plants when supply exceeded demand. They pumped water up hill to be stored for use in secondary hydro plants when demand exceeded supply. Horribly inefficient, but better than running coal plants in stand-by 16 hours a day.

I'm all for alternative energy. As long as there is gasoline for my motorcycle and diesel for my tractor, I don't much care how my electricity is generated.

 

[Ernie S.]

Gas from Asia is stupidly expensive in Australia, but that price will collapse in 3 years, plus they have a carbon tax.

Didn't I just hear of new oil discoveries in the Outback?

 

[Star]

Gas from Asia is stupidly expensive in Australia, but that price will collapse in 3 years, plus they have a carbon tax.

According to Bloomberg New Energy Finance, even if the "Carbon Tax" didn't exist wind power would still undercut fossil fuels and-----and PV isn't far behind, and that doesn't even take into account the cost of externalities that carbon supporters can't seem to comprehend.



"Australia currently charges polluters $23 in Australian dollars per metric ton of carbon they emit, but the study concluded that wind power would still undercut fossil fuels even without that correction of the market’s failure to properly build in the costs of carbon pollution:"



"Relying on fossil fuels to produce electricity is getting more expensive because of the government’s price on carbon emissions imposed last year, higher financing costs and rising natural gas prices, BNEF said. The cost of wind generation has fallen by 10 percent since 2011 on lower equipment expenses, while the cost of solar power has dropped by 29 percent.

“The fact that wind power is now cheaper than coal and gas in a country with some of the world’s best fossil fuel resources shows that clean energy is a game changer which promises to turn the economics of power systems on its head,” Michael Liebreich, chief executive officer of Bloomberg New Energy Finance, said in a statement today."
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[skookerasbil]

Shit.....how many times do I have to decimate the threads of these idiots???

 

[skookerasbil]

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Gas from Asia is stupidly expensive in Australia, but that price will collapse in 3 years, plus they have a carbon tax.

According to Bloomberg New Energy Finance, even if the "Carbon Tax" didn't exist wind power would still undercut fossil fuels and-----and PV isn't far behind, and that doesn't even take into account the cost of externalities that carbon supporters can't seem to comprehend.


"Australia currently charges polluters $23 in Australian dollars per metric ton of carbon they emit, but the study concluded that wind power would still undercut fossil fuels even without that correction of the market’s failure to properly build in the costs of carbon pollution:"


"Relying on fossil fuels to produce electricity is getting more expensive because of the government’s price on carbon emissions imposed last year, higher financing costs and rising natural gas prices, BNEF said. The cost of wind generation has fallen by 10 percent since 2011 on lower equipment expenses, while the cost of solar power has dropped by 29 percent.

“The fact that wind power is now cheaper than coal and gas in a country with some of the world’s best fossil fuel resources shows that clean energy is a game changer which promises to turn the economics of power systems on its head,” Michael Liebreich, chief executive officer of Bloomberg New Energy Finance, said in a statement today."
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The only thing keeping the price of gas from collapsing further is Obama and Sec State Kerry pushing for a US Carbon tax

Listen closely: you're a complete idiot to bet against LNG.

Complete, total idiot

The US completes the first LNG EXPORT Facility in 2015 (unless Obama fucks it up)

 

[skookerasbil]

Gas from Asia is stupidly expensive in Australia, but that price will collapse in 3 years, plus they have a carbon tax.

According to Bloomberg New Energy Finance, even if the "Carbon Tax" didn't exist wind power would still undercut fossil fuels and-----and PV isn't far behind, and that doesn't even take into account the cost of externalities that carbon supporters can't seem to comprehend.


"Australia currently charges polluters $23 in Australian dollars per metric ton of carbon they emit, but the study concluded that wind power would still undercut fossil fuels even without that correction of the market’s failure to properly build in the costs of carbon pollution:"


"Relying on fossil fuels to produce electricity is getting more expensive because of the government’s price on carbon emissions imposed last year, higher financing costs and rising natural gas prices, BNEF said. The cost of wind generation has fallen by 10 percent since 2011 on lower equipment expenses, while the cost of solar power has dropped by 29 percent.

“The fact that wind power is now cheaper than coal and gas in a country with some of the world’s best fossil fuel resources shows that clean energy is a game changer which promises to turn the economics of power systems on its head,” Michael Liebreich, chief executive officer of Bloomberg New Energy Finance, said in a statement today."
.

The only thing keeping the price of gas from collapsing further is Obama and Sec State Kerry pushing for a US Carbon tax

Listen closely: you're a complete idiot to bet against LNG.

Complete, total idiot

The US completes the first LNG EXPORT Facility in 2015 (unless Obama fucks it up)

I love when the total jackasses wander in here Frank...........

Laugh.....my......balls......off............Australia pays amongst the highest electricity prices in the modern world.........

Australians pay highest power prices: study - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

 

[Star]

According to Bloomberg New Energy Finance, even if the "Carbon Tax" didn't exist wind power would still undercut fossil fuels and-----and PV isn't far behind, and that doesn't even take into account the cost of externalities that carbon supporters can't seem to comprehend.


"Australia currently charges polluters $23 in Australian dollars per metric ton of carbon they emit, but the study concluded that wind power would still undercut fossil fuels even without that correction of the market’s failure to properly build in the costs of carbon pollution:"


"Relying on fossil fuels to produce electricity is getting more expensive because of the government’s price on carbon emissions imposed last year, higher financing costs and rising natural gas prices, BNEF said. The cost of wind generation has fallen by 10 percent since 2011 on lower equipment expenses, while the cost of solar power has dropped by 29 percent.

“The fact that wind power is now cheaper than coal and gas in a country with some of the world’s best fossil fuel resources shows that clean energy is a game changer which promises to turn the economics of power systems on its head,” Michael Liebreich, chief executive officer of Bloomberg New Energy Finance, said in a statement today."
.

The only thing keeping the price of gas from collapsing further is Obama and Sec State Kerry pushing for a US Carbon tax

Listen closely: you're a complete idiot to bet against LNG.

Complete, total idiot

The US completes the first LNG EXPORT Facility in 2015 (unless Obama fucks it up)

I love when the total jackasses wander in here Frank...........

Laugh.....my......balls......off............Australia pays amongst the highest electricity prices in the modern world.........

Australians pay highest power prices: study - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Since the article you linked to was written, the rules have changed, below is the update.

"The concern, as seems to have been the case in Australia (see below) and Germany, is the potential for utilities to pocket electricity cost savings while raising the price of retail electricity — not right."​

Wind & Solar Pushing Down Price of Electricity in Australia - CleanTechnica

The rules of Australia’s energy markets continue to be redrawn after the South Australian pricing regulator on Tuesday cut its calculation of wholesale energy costs and recommended that retail electricity prices be cut by 8.1 per cent.​

The draft decision by the Energy Services Commission of South Australia (ESCOSA) may only directly impact the customers of AGL Energy on standing contracts in that state – but it’s likely to have a profound ripple effect on the energy industry in Australia.​

The decision recognises that the game is changing because of the growing impact of renewables and falling demand. It also recognises that the industry’s power over the regulators is waning fast, and its ability to gold plate its assets – be they networks or generation plant – is rapidly declining.​

​

ESCOSA – against the wishes of the conventional energy industry – has redrawn the way that prices should be estimated. It was a bit of a no-brainer, because ESCOSA had previously allowed the wholesale price allowance to reflect what the utilities estimated as the long run marginal cost of energy. But it turned out that this calculation was up to three times the actual cost – ESCOSA had allowed electricity companies to pass on a rate of $90 per MWh, although the cost of the electricity on the open market had dropped to as low as $30 per MWh.​

​

ESCOSA now proposes a calculation that better reflects the cost of purchasing energy on the wholesale market, and all the hedging that takes place as well. The result is that – even after taking into account the carbon price and the cost of renewable energy schemes – the wholesale component of the electricity bill will come down sharply – and translate into a cut in retail bills. It suggests that these cost reductions be reflected in the bills of all customers, not just those on standing charges.​

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<snip>​

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[IanC]

I remember reading just recently about how the wind power added to the grid in Australia was poorly integrated with the actual need and usage. because of this they needed to have stand-by capability that could be turned off-and-on at a moments notice. unfortunately this meant that they had open (inefficient) systems idling instead of closed (efficient) systems that take more time to ramp up and down.

when the cost of wind power is calculated do you think that they are making realistic assumptions about the secondary systems? or the effectiveness and lifespans of the windmills? do the ineffective fuel systems that back up wind get included in the overall results for fuel based power?

 

[skookerasbil]

The only thing keeping the price of gas from collapsing further is Obama and Sec State Kerry pushing for a US Carbon tax

Listen closely: you're a complete idiot to bet against LNG.

Complete, total idiot

The US completes the first LNG EXPORT Facility in 2015 (unless Obama fucks it up)

I love when the total jackasses wander in here Frank...........

Laugh.....my......balls......off............Australia pays amongst the highest electricity prices in the modern world.........

Australians pay highest power prices: study - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Since the article you linked to was written, the rules have changed, below is the update.

"The concern, as seems to have been the case in Australia (see below) and Germany, is the potential for utilities to pocket electricity cost savings while raising the price of retail electricity &#8212; not right."​

Wind & Solar Pushing Down Price of Electricity in Australia - CleanTechnica

The rules of Australia&#8217;s energy markets continue to be redrawn after the South Australian pricing regulator on Tuesday cut its calculation of wholesale energy costs and recommended that retail electricity prices be cut by 8.1 per cent.​

The draft decision by the Energy Services Commission of South Australia (ESCOSA) may only directly impact the customers of AGL Energy on standing contracts in that state &#8211; but it&#8217;s likely to have a profound ripple effect on the energy industry in Australia.​

The decision recognises that the game is changing because of the growing impact of renewables and falling demand. It also recognises that the industry&#8217;s power over the regulators is waning fast, and its ability to gold plate its assets &#8211; be they networks or generation plant &#8211; is rapidly declining.​

​

ESCOSA &#8211; against the wishes of the conventional energy industry &#8211; has redrawn the way that prices should be estimated. It was a bit of a no-brainer, because ESCOSA had previously allowed the wholesale price allowance to reflect what the utilities estimated as the long run marginal cost of energy. But it turned out that this calculation was up to three times the actual cost &#8211; ESCOSA had allowed electricity companies to pass on a rate of $90 per MWh, although the cost of the electricity on the open market had dropped to as low as $30 per MWh.​

​

ESCOSA now proposes a calculation that better reflects the cost of purchasing energy on the wholesale market, and all the hedging that takes place as well. The result is that &#8211; even after taking into account the carbon price and the cost of renewable energy schemes &#8211; the wholesale component of the electricity bill will come down sharply &#8211; and translate into a cut in retail bills. It suggests that these cost reductions be reflected in the bills of all customers, not just those on standing charges.​

​

<snip>​

​

.​

posting up links from sites committed to renewables/green energy.........is gay. Projections in prices based upon a plan = gay. Progressives are experts at putting that shit out as facts or "results". Its fucking fascinating.

 

[Old Rocks]

Especially when the Aussis put a /ton tax on carbon....
But yes electricity can be made cheaply with wind power. My question is: What happens when the wind stops blowing? A coal plant has to come on line to keep the grid up. And you don't just push a button and start a coal plant. It takes about 24 hours from a cold start, from what I read, or about an hour from stand-by mode. The problem being stand-by consumes about 75% of the fuel of normal operation.

Figure out a way to store the energy produced by wind and solar and you have a viable technology.
Maybe it's using the power to make hydrogen for fuel cells and letting the fuel cells power the grid. Maybe it's what used to be done with some hydro plants when supply exceeded demand. They pumped water up hill to be stored for use in secondary hydro plants when demand exceeded supply. Horribly inefficient, but better than running coal plants in stand-by 16 hours a day.

I'm all for alternative energy. As long as there is gasoline for my motorcycle and diesel for my tractor, I don't much care how my electricity is generated.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sddb0Khx0yA]Donald Sadoway: The missing link to renewable energy - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Star]

skookerasbil, thanks for keeping the USMB up to date on where/how to find gay websites...
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[skookerasbil]

skookerasbil, thanks for keeping the USMB up to date on where/how to find gay websites...
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gay

 

[PoliticalChic]

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In Australia, Wind Power is Already Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels and Solar is Right Behind

Jeff Spross
11 February 2013

According to the latest research from Bloomberg New Energy Finance, electricity from wind power can now be supplied more cheaply in Australia than power from either coal or natural gas &#8212; and solar and other forms of renewable energy aren&#8217;t far behind.
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&#8220;The US Energy Information Administration estimates the subsidy cost of wind runs at $23.50 [dollars per actual megawatt-hour] and solar burns through a bit more at $26.00. Natural gas and petroleum, 25 cents. Coal, 44 cents. &#8220;Clean&#8221; coal, refined to environmentalist&#8217;s standards, $29.81.&#8221; Nickson, &#8220;Eco-Fascists,&#8221; p.123.

 

[skookerasbil]

For 10 years, Ive been reading on thse message boards on the internet how green energy is taking the world by storm. So what has changed in the past 10 years? DICK........it was a fringe energy market, it is a fringe energy market now and at least 30 years from now it will still be a fringe energy market.

Thinking anything else is nothing more than a k00k pipe dream.



2/12/2013

President Obama Gets It: Fracking Is Awesome

Christopher Helman, Forbes Staff


In his State of the Union address tonight President Obama said:

“After years of talking about it, we are finally poised to control our own energy future. We produce more oil at home than we have in 15 years. We have doubled the distance our cars will go on a gallon of gas, and the amount of renewable energy we generate from sources like wind and solar – with tens of thousands of good, American jobs to show for it. We produce more natural gas than ever before – and nearly everyone’s energy bill is lower because of it.”

Yes indeed, thanks to fracking, crude oil production in the United States is surging. From a low of 5 million barrels per day in 2008 output has shot up in a hyperbolic curve to 7 million bpd as of last week.



President Obama Gets It: Fracking Is Awesome - Forbes

 

[Star]

For 10 years, Ive been reading on thse message boards on the internet how green energy is taking the world by storm. So what has changed in the past 10 years? DICK........it was a fringe energy market, it is a fringe energy market now and at least 30 years from now it will still be a fringe energy market.

Thinking anything else is nothing more than a k00k pipe dream.



2/12/2013

President Obama Gets It: Fracking Is Awesome

Christopher Helman, Forbes Staff


In his State of the Union address tonight President Obama said:

“After years of talking about it, we are finally poised to control our own energy future. We produce more oil at home than we have in 15 years. We have doubled the distance our cars will go on a gallon of gas, and the amount of renewable energy we generate from sources like wind and solar – with tens of thousands of good, American jobs to show for it. We produce more natural gas than ever before – and nearly everyone’s energy bill is lower because of it.”

Yes indeed, thanks to fracking, crude oil production in the United States is surging. From a low of 5 million barrels per day in 2008 output has shot up in a hyperbolic curve to 7 million bpd as of last week.



President Obama Gets It: Fracking Is Awesome - Forbes

Good catch -- what other issues do think your ODSed Republican leadership lies to you about?

Will Obama Appoint Fracking Proponent Ernest Moniz to Energy Secretary?

Now that you've discovered Obama ain't the ideologue your leadership convinced you he was/is - are you now an Obama supporter?
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