OldLady
Diamond Member
- Nov 16, 2015
- 69,568
- 19,607
I don't lie.Actually, I didn't take "innocent until proven guilty" to be the point of this thread. It has pretty much run to the theme of women are liars, lying in wait to ruin them.I've never defended the principle of guilty until proven innocent; I have never agreed with the way the allegations against the famous are getting out there and causing them to lose their jobs due to bad publicity. It isn't metoo that is publicizing this stuff, is it? It's the reporters whose job it is to cover the court beat--they see the name in the civil complaint and run it up the flagpole. Or a reporter gets a tip from PBS about allegations against Keillor...or from the Hill about a Senator.... We don't need to know any of this--including all the nonsense with Stormy Daniels--until it has been adjudicated or thrown out or settled. That's my opinion. Like the stuff about the owner of Fox--Ayles, was it--we just heard he was out. HR and legal teams were up to their eyeballs in it, no doubt, and it wasn't done willy nilly in 24 hours, but that's the way it should be done. After the fact.That doesn't appear to be the intent of this thread to me. Instead, the intent seems to be to point that false allegations have led many men who don't do things wrong to think twice about trusting women. And the reason for this is not because of the women who make false allegations, but because of the people who defend the women who make false allegations.
Do you not have any brothers, or sons, or grandsons, or even friends who are single men? If so, you do them a huge disservice when you defend the principle of guilty until proven innocent when it comes to sexual misconduct allegations.
I agree, but that's not the way it is done because the American idiot insists otherwise. How many Americans that absolutely have no idea what did or did not happen 30 something years ago with Kav and Ford declared him damn near if not in actuality a rapist based on NOTHING more than her allegations?? Those idiots are why things like this are news.
That is the point of this thread, and certainly of my posts in this thread. You say you are against such behaviors , and I take you at your word, yet you don't speak out against them, maybe if you did, and other liberals did, things would change. Conservatives screaming "this isn't fair, what happened to innocent until proven guilty?" Isn't going to change any liberals who are willing to throw out all sense of fairness to "get" a conservative. Fair minded liberals must do that. In this particular case all the better if it's fair minded female liberals who stand up and say "enough, this isn't right" and perhaps when enough young ladies realize "hey we're not getting asked out on dates and such because of this crap" things will change.
And of course you could apply this principle to oh so many topics.
The Kavanaugh circus was 99.9% pure politics and NONE of us know what happened there thirty years ago. I said that repeatedly during the days we debated it here. I defended Ford's right to be HEARD though and it seemed to me her accusations were no weaker than Kavanaugh's defense. A great many people said a great deal of very ugly things in both directions. That is not a good case to allude to, because like you said, it had too much to do with whether they wanted to see him in the Supreme Court.
I do not think it will happen that young ladies are not asked out on dates and such. Human nature does not change. How men treat women certainly can though, when it comes to simple courtesy.
I , obviously, wasn't hear during the Kav stuff and I'm not going to search through old threads, so I'll take your word for what you said. However, I will say this.
No, that woman should NOT have had a right to "tell her story" A woman, or anyone else for that matter, should be required to show at least a modicum of evidence beyond "her story" before such allegations are made in any form that could be made public. Look at the way this guy was relentlessy hammered simply because one woman said something happened. And we see it all the time.
Call me an asshole if you wish, but these women who make allegations that they can't even provide a single shred of evidence to support should be silenced. I don't care if it' against a Republican, a Democrat, or a Communist, or a Martian. No man should be subject to such a spectacle based on a woman's testimony alone. I don't care if 100 women claim something happened common sense tells us if 100 women were sexually mistreated by a man there should be some witness or other piece of evidence to corroborate at least one of the stories.
Then when you add in all the dirty tricks other people are willing to use in conjunction with unsubstantiated claims, you quickly have a situation where men become in affect a second class citizen who isn't afforded the basic of civil rights.
Don't take her word for it, go and read her posts. She's lying.