"Avoid women at all costs"- new Wall Street rule

[Anathema]

How sad guys can't just be respectful and professional while at work.

How sad that we have to deal with women in the workplace to begin with.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

The "me-too" movement has necessitated this new rule, which is certainly a positive move for Homoamericans seeking employment in finance. The Light-in-the-loafers crowd will have no problem with the new dictates from the Wall Street crowd.

Wall Street rule for the #MeToo era: Avoid women at all costs

How sad guys can't just be respectful and professional while at work.

The concern isn't that Wall St. men can't be respectful to broads, but that the gals are making up things and ruining the men's careers.

That's what the people learned with the Bret Kavanaugh situation. Even though the man was found to be totally innocent of Gang Rape and Sexual Harassment, the broad who made the accusation made a big score and Kav's life and career were almost ruined by just 2 votes.

Better to be safe and just avoid broads or follow the Hallowed Mike Pence rule.

"broads"? Well, we know where YOU are coming from...............

"Broads" is a slang word for the gals here on the East Coast.

I've tried to use it more since I moved to the Commonwealth of the Pennsylvanians.

Nope...I'm from the East Coast....it's derogatory and has been for at least 50 years.

. HOs and Bitches replaced the term.

 

[Anathema]

Maybe women should also, so they won't be called liars.

Maybe we should be more concerned with what actually said or done rather than how someone FEELS about what was said or done.

 

[Soupnazi630]

The "me-too" movement has necessitated this new rule, which is certainly a positive move for Homoamericans seeking employment in finance. The Light-in-the-loafers crowd will have no problem with the new dictates from the Wall Street crowd.

Wall Street rule for the #MeToo era: Avoid women at all costs

How sad guys can't just be respectful and professional while at work.

That's pretty much what it boils down to......they can't be respectful and professional.....so they avoid women.

Wrong women too easily burn men with false accusarions

#MeToo movement is getting women out of the workforce.

Anyone who didn't see the handmaid's tale backdooring its way into reality with this #MeToo shit clearly wasn't paying attention.

RIP being able to talk to a female without getting jailed.

I know that males are upset that women are finally fighting back against sexual assault in this country.

No they are not really.

You do not right crime by committing crime such as false accusations.

 

[MisterBeale]

I'd be surprised if a woman, or a man, would feel sexually harassed by someone they were attracted to that was flirting with them. Again, you don't seem to grasp the difference between harassment and flirtation.

Yes, if I was interested in someone who suddenly harassed me instead of flirting, that would be the end of my interest in him.

You would not be interested in someone that could possibly sexual harass you silly.

That's a silly statement.

In your opinion.

I fancy myself to be a pretty intuitive person. I have seen you post a lot.

I know you wouldn't be attracted to anyone that could possibly ever disrespect you. Let's not be disingenuous, shall we?

I'm not going to be rough on you, Mister Beale, because you have no clue what sexual harassment is. That does not surprise me, because I DO guess that is not the kind of guy you are. But as someone who has been on the receiving end of sexual harassment, it is not the same as some uncouth, belching guy with a dirty t-shirt walking up and saying something vulgar. You can predict that. But you can work next to someone, or in other ways interact with them, for months, years even and suddenly the Ugly comes out.

That article I even quoted said it could be as little as staring at someone or flirting with them.

 

[sparky]

Nope sorry, i'm a real man, like real women , have NO problem w/'em.....

All you posers , intimidators , or whatever axe you've to grind sorts can stand in line

NOT sorry

~S~

 

[Jarlaxle]

The "me-too" movement has necessitated this new rule, which is certainly a positive move for Homoamericans seeking employment in finance. The Light-in-the-loafers crowd will have no problem with the new dictates from the Wall Street crowd.

Wall Street rule for the #MeToo era: Avoid women at all costs

How sad guys can't just be respectful and professional while at work.

That's not enough. Yes, it's that simple. A man can be a perfect gentleman...and have his life ruined by a single unsubstantiated accusation.

 

[Ravi]

I think you are confusing flirting with harassment.

Wow. THAT IS WHAT I AM GETTING AT.

The difference is whether it is wanted by the intended person. That is the only difference.

I am not confusing anything.


It is impossible for a guy that a women wants and finds attractive to "harass" her, it will always be viewed as flirting.

"Sexual Harassment
When someone is harassing you in a sexual manner, for example, snapping your bra strap, making comments about your body, cajoles you, rubs up against you, etc'.
If someone is giving you unwanted sexual attention, that is Sexual Harassment."
Urban Dictionary: Sexual Harassment

"Flirting
Playful banter usually, but not restricted, with members of the opposite sex. This usually includes a conscious desire to flatter the one being flirted with. Flirting is a core aspect of many relationships today between a boy and a girl.

Girls are often caught flirting with each other. In this context, it is usually not intended sexually but playfully.

Nearly all accounts of flirting include subtle sexual innuendos and, to the unexperienced, can sometimes seem harmless."
Urban Dictionary: Flirting

IOW; FEMALE PRIVILEGE.

You are still mixing them up. I agree with a lot of things you've said about conditioning, though you blamed it on Hollywood when it has been going on much longer than that.

At the same time you said someone wouldn't say boo if the harasser was good looking and then you double down with your gif. This simply is not true. Harassment is always harassment and unwelcome no matter who is doing it.

Well, there you go.

Now you know the reason for the OP.


Men on Wall Street need to avoid women at all costs b/c they believe there is nuance. You sit there an tell us there is some, but got me what it is.



I seriously doubt there has ever been a woman that has been sexually harassed by a guy she has been attracted too and really wants, that has said, "listen, I am attracted to you, and like your overtures, but your attempts at flirting I find to be sexual harassment, and if they don't end, I will have to report you. I would prefer you just ask me out after work."


Sorry, I'm just not buying it.

I'd be surprised if a woman, or a man, would feel sexually harassed by someone they were attracted to that was flirting with them. Again, you don't seem to grasp the difference between harassment and flirtation.

Again, you don't seem to understand, you have female privilege, you live in your own little world, and don't grasp that it is a matter of perspective. It depends on POV. There is no difference.

Ravi, I like you, I love your contributions to the board, but I also understand, you are not the sharpest knife in the drawer, so I am going to be patient with you. I was just going to let this go, and walk away. But, in the interest of creating a constructive dialog for everyone, let us bring out a CONCRETE EXAMPLE for other lower intellects, shall we?


When I was young, in school, I had always been brilliant, however, my social, or emotional IQ was always dismal. I had a terrible time meeting and interacting with woman. It wasn't until I left my first University and went to work in a resort town, the type you saw in the movie, "Dirty Dancing" and met one of the locals, became fast friends with him, a real player, who taught me the fine art of seduction, that I learned how to flirt.

SO it was that I learned the "making eyes" game. The most basic of flirting game, where you check someone out, but don't get caught checking her out. AND, if you do, you have the balls to smile (nicely) and say "hi." Then, you don't look at them again, or, alternatively, you try to catch them checking you out, in which case, as the man, it is YOUR duty, to go introduce yourself.

IT is a sophisticated dance.

All this I never knew. It is probably something I should have learned in junior high, but didn't pick up till my early twenties.

Now, I relate this, because, there are actually A LOT of men that just don't get how this most basic of flirting game is played.


Did you know, that STARING at a woman, if the woman does not like you, and you do not do it right, IS CONSIDERED SEXUAL HARASSMENT?

Things discussed that are Sexual Harassment;

Is It Sexual Harassment to Stare at Another Employee for More Than 5 Seconds?
Is It Sexual Harassment to Stare at Another Employee for More Than 5 Seconds?
"Among the things discussed were avoiding "lingering hugs," flirting and not repeatedly asking for a colleague’s phone number when turned down for it the first time. Oh, don’t stare at someone for more than five seconds."
<snip>

And the best part of the article, basically supports the premise of this thread.

". . . This is not difficult, guys. In fact, allow me to save everyone some time and corporations a boatload of training dollars. Here's all the sexual harassment training you need: keep your mouth shut.

Don't comment. Don't compliment. Don't offer your opinions on how someone looks. Don't do anything in the office or behave in any way towards a female that, if some guy were behaving the same way towards your daughter, you would be inclined to punch him in the face. Just shut up and do your work. When you talk, talk about work. You want to be inappropriate? Don't. But if you feel the need, then do it on your own time and not in my office.. . "

So your premise is that there is a difference between flirting and harassment. However you are WRONG. I maintain it is only the girl who decides.

LOOKING at a girl in both cases is the same. In one case it could be flirting, in the other case it is harassment. I just depends on how she feels about the gaze of the guy that is looking at her.

"but I also understand, you are not the sharpest knife in the drawer, so I am going to be patient with you"

Oh My Fucking God. Did you really post that?

The article you posted by some hysterical loser that is simply making things up is almost as funny.

 

[bodecea]

How sad guys can't just be respectful and professional while at work.

How sad that we have to deal with women in the workplace to begin with.

Perfect.

 

[sparky]

We've a symbiotic relationship .

Those that accept this fare best

~S~

 

[bodecea]

The "me-too" movement has necessitated this new rule, which is certainly a positive move for Homoamericans seeking employment in finance. The Light-in-the-loafers crowd will have no problem with the new dictates from the Wall Street crowd.

Wall Street rule for the #MeToo era: Avoid women at all costs

How sad guys can't just be respectful and professional while at work.

That's not enough. Yes, it's that simple. A man can be a perfect gentleman...and have his life ruined by a single unsubstantiated accusation.

Unsubstantiated means it's not proven, just like any unsubstantiated accusation.

 

[Jarlaxle]

The "me-too" movement has necessitated this new rule, which is certainly a positive move for Homoamericans seeking employment in finance. The Light-in-the-loafers crowd will have no problem with the new dictates from the Wall Street crowd.

Wall Street rule for the #MeToo era: Avoid women at all costs

How sad guys can't just be respectful and professional while at work.

That's not enough. Yes, it's that simple. A man can be a perfect gentleman...and have his life ruined by a single unsubstantiated accusation.

Unsubstantiated means it's not proven, just like any unsubstantiated accusation.

SO...did you not read my post, did you not understand it, or did you simply choose to ignore it?

 

[MisterBeale]

Wow. THAT IS WHAT I AM GETTING AT.

The difference is whether it is wanted by the intended person. That is the only difference.

I am not confusing anything.


It is impossible for a guy that a women wants and finds attractive to "harass" her, it will always be viewed as flirting.

"Sexual Harassment
When someone is harassing you in a sexual manner, for example, snapping your bra strap, making comments about your body, cajoles you, rubs up against you, etc'.
If someone is giving you unwanted sexual attention, that is Sexual Harassment."
Urban Dictionary: Sexual Harassment

"Flirting
Playful banter usually, but not restricted, with members of the opposite sex. This usually includes a conscious desire to flatter the one being flirted with. Flirting is a core aspect of many relationships today between a boy and a girl.

Girls are often caught flirting with each other. In this context, it is usually not intended sexually but playfully.

Nearly all accounts of flirting include subtle sexual innuendos and, to the unexperienced, can sometimes seem harmless."
Urban Dictionary: Flirting

IOW; FEMALE PRIVILEGE.

You are still mixing them up. I agree with a lot of things you've said about conditioning, though you blamed it on Hollywood when it has been going on much longer than that.

At the same time you said someone wouldn't say boo if the harasser was good looking and then you double down with your gif. This simply is not true. Harassment is always harassment and unwelcome no matter who is doing it.

Well, there you go.

Now you know the reason for the OP.


Men on Wall Street need to avoid women at all costs b/c they believe there is nuance. You sit there an tell us there is some, but got me what it is.



I seriously doubt there has ever been a woman that has been sexually harassed by a guy she has been attracted too and really wants, that has said, "listen, I am attracted to you, and like your overtures, but your attempts at flirting I find to be sexual harassment, and if they don't end, I will have to report you. I would prefer you just ask me out after work."


Sorry, I'm just not buying it.

I'd be surprised if a woman, or a man, would feel sexually harassed by someone they were attracted to that was flirting with them. Again, you don't seem to grasp the difference between harassment and flirtation.

Again, you don't seem to understand, you have female privilege, you live in your own little world, and don't grasp that it is a matter of perspective. It depends on POV. There is no difference.

Ravi, I like you, I love your contributions to the board, but I also understand, you are not the sharpest knife in the drawer, so I am going to be patient with you. I was just going to let this go, and walk away. But, in the interest of creating a constructive dialog for everyone, let us bring out a CONCRETE EXAMPLE for other lower intellects, shall we?


When I was young, in school, I had always been brilliant, however, my social, or emotional IQ was always dismal. I had a terrible time meeting and interacting with woman. It wasn't until I left my first University and went to work in a resort town, the type you saw in the movie, "Dirty Dancing" and met one of the locals, became fast friends with him, a real player, who taught me the fine art of seduction, that I learned how to flirt.

SO it was that I learned the "making eyes" game. The most basic of flirting game, where you check someone out, but don't get caught checking her out. AND, if you do, you have the balls to smile (nicely) and say "hi." Then, you don't look at them again, or, alternatively, you try to catch them checking you out, in which case, as the man, it is YOUR duty, to go introduce yourself.

IT is a sophisticated dance.

All this I never knew. It is probably something I should have learned in junior high, but didn't pick up till my early twenties.

Now, I relate this, because, there are actually A LOT of men that just don't get how this most basic of flirting game is played.


Did you know, that STARING at a woman, if the woman does not like you, and you do not do it right, IS CONSIDERED SEXUAL HARASSMENT?

Things discussed that are Sexual Harassment;

Is It Sexual Harassment to Stare at Another Employee for More Than 5 Seconds?
Is It Sexual Harassment to Stare at Another Employee for More Than 5 Seconds?
"Among the things discussed were avoiding "lingering hugs," flirting and not repeatedly asking for a colleague’s phone number when turned down for it the first time. Oh, don’t stare at someone for more than five seconds."
<snip>

And the best part of the article, basically supports the premise of this thread.

". . . This is not difficult, guys. In fact, allow me to save everyone some time and corporations a boatload of training dollars. Here's all the sexual harassment training you need: keep your mouth shut.

Don't comment. Don't compliment. Don't offer your opinions on how someone looks. Don't do anything in the office or behave in any way towards a female that, if some guy were behaving the same way towards your daughter, you would be inclined to punch him in the face. Just shut up and do your work. When you talk, talk about work. You want to be inappropriate? Don't. But if you feel the need, then do it on your own time and not in my office.. . "

So your premise is that there is a difference between flirting and harassment. However you are WRONG. I maintain it is only the girl who decides.

LOOKING at a girl in both cases is the same. In one case it could be flirting, in the other case it is harassment. I just depends on how she feels about the gaze of the guy that is looking at her.

"but I also understand, you are not the sharpest knife in the drawer, so I am going to be patient with you"

Oh My Fucking God. Did you really post that?

The article you posted by some hysterical loser that is simply making things up is almost as funny.

Well, that took you a while.

 

[bodecea]

How sad guys can't just be respectful and professional while at work.

The concern isn't that Wall St. men can't be respectful to broads, but that the gals are making up things and ruining the men's careers.

That's what the people learned with the Bret Kavanaugh situation. Even though the man was found to be totally innocent of Gang Rape and Sexual Harassment, the broad who made the accusation made a big score and Kav's life and career were almost ruined by just 2 votes.

Better to be safe and just avoid broads or follow the Hallowed Mike Pence rule.

"broads"? Well, we know where YOU are coming from...............

"Broads" is a slang word for the gals here on the East Coast.

I've tried to use it more since I moved to the Commonwealth of the Pennsylvanians.

Nope...I'm from the East Coast....it's derogatory and has been for at least 50 years.

. HOs and Bitches replaced the term.

Fascinating.

 

[justinacolmena]

The "me-too" movement has necessitated this new rule, which is certainly a positive move for Homoamericans seeking employment in finance. The Light-in-the-loafers crowd will have no problem with the new dictates from the Wall Street crowd.

Wall Street rule for the #MeToo era: Avoid women at all costs

They only avoid women until they get out of sight of the boss. Then they're picking up ladies off the street just like all the other guys out there. These guys have money and they pick up girls. You're only "homo" if you fall for all their bullshit.

The "me-too" movement has necessitated this new rule, which is certainly a positive move for Homoamericans seeking employment in finance. The Light-in-the-loafers crowd will have no problem with the new dictates from the Wall Street crowd.

Wall Street rule for the #MeToo era: Avoid women at all costs

How sad guys can't just be respectful and professional while at work.

That's not enough. Yes, it's that simple. A man can be a perfect gentleman...and have his life ruined by a single unsubstantiated accusation.

And it turns out the guy was married and unfaithful to his wife and the whole story comes out, and there is a family vendetta, hush money, and murder for hire, and it goes on and on.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Are you attempting to stumble upon a POINT as you flop and flail?

 

[Ame®icano]

The "me-too" movement has necessitated this new rule, which is certainly a positive move for Homoamericans seeking employment in finance. The Light-in-the-loafers crowd will have no problem with the new dictates from the Wall Street crowd.

Wall Street rule for the #MeToo era: Avoid women at all costs

How sad guys can't just be respectful and professional while at work.

The concern isn't that Wall St. men can't be respectful to broads, but that the gals are making up things and ruining the men's careers.

That's what the people learned with the Bret Kavanaugh situation. Even though the man was found to be totally innocent of Gang Rape and Sexual Harassment, the broad who made the accusation made a big score and Kav's life and career were almost ruined by just 2 votes.

Better to be safe and just avoid broads or follow the Hallowed Mike Pence rule.

That would be great…If men could avoid asking people out whom you work with, dating co-workers, arranging to meet in conspicuous places such as bars and hotel rooms to conduct business. Avoidance is better than the alternative.

As for the thread, the bullshit premise is that some woman who is intellectually equal to their male counterparts will make things up because she somehow wants the glitz and glamor that comes along with being a sexual assault victim (and your echoing of it) shows why the blob and his followers are thought of as pond scum.

Your premise is that some women are intellectually equal. Those who are don't need to make shit up to advance their careers.

We're not talking about them. We're talking about women like you.

Equal? No. Superior. Yes. You’re exhibit A

Superior to what? Amoeba?

Good job, you must be so proud of yourself.

 

[Ame®icano]

The "me-too" movement has necessitated this new rule, which is certainly a positive move for Homoamericans seeking employment in finance. The Light-in-the-loafers crowd will have no problem with the new dictates from the Wall Street crowd.

Wall Street rule for the #MeToo era: Avoid women at all costs

How sad guys can't just be respectful and professional while at work.

That's pretty much what it boils down to......they can't be respectful and professional.....so they avoid women.

Wrong women too easily burn men with false accusarions

#MeToo movement is getting women out of the workforce.

Anyone who didn't see the handmaid's tale backdooring its way into reality with this #MeToo shit clearly wasn't paying attention.

RIP being able to talk to a female without getting jailed.

I know that males are upset that women are finally fighting back against sexual assault in this country.

This is not about protection of women. It's flat out attack on the men.

 

[candycorn]

How sad guys can't just be respectful and professional while at work.

The concern isn't that Wall St. men can't be respectful to broads, but that the gals are making up things and ruining the men's careers.

That's what the people learned with the Bret Kavanaugh situation. Even though the man was found to be totally innocent of Gang Rape and Sexual Harassment, the broad who made the accusation made a big score and Kav's life and career were almost ruined by just 2 votes.

Better to be safe and just avoid broads or follow the Hallowed Mike Pence rule.

That would be great…If men could avoid asking people out whom you work with, dating co-workers, arranging to meet in conspicuous places such as bars and hotel rooms to conduct business. Avoidance is better than the alternative.

As for the thread, the bullshit premise is that some woman who is intellectually equal to their male counterparts will make things up because she somehow wants the glitz and glamor that comes along with being a sexual assault victim (and your echoing of it) shows why the blob and his followers are thought of as pond scum.

Your premise is that some women are intellectually equal. Those who are don't need to make shit up to advance their careers.

We're not talking about them. We're talking about women like you.

Equal? No. Superior. Yes. You’re exhibit A

Superior to what? Amoeba?

Good job, you must be so proud of yourself.

Classifying yourself as Amoeba? Well, Okay then.

 

[Ame®icano]

Wow. THAT IS WHAT I AM GETTING AT.

The difference is whether it is wanted by the intended person. That is the only difference.

I am not confusing anything.


It is impossible for a guy that a women wants and finds attractive to "harass" her, it will always be viewed as flirting.

"Sexual Harassment
When someone is harassing you in a sexual manner, for example, snapping your bra strap, making comments about your body, cajoles you, rubs up against you, etc'.
If someone is giving you unwanted sexual attention, that is Sexual Harassment."
Urban Dictionary: Sexual Harassment

"Flirting
Playful banter usually, but not restricted, with members of the opposite sex. This usually includes a conscious desire to flatter the one being flirted with. Flirting is a core aspect of many relationships today between a boy and a girl.

Girls are often caught flirting with each other. In this context, it is usually not intended sexually but playfully.

Nearly all accounts of flirting include subtle sexual innuendos and, to the unexperienced, can sometimes seem harmless."
Urban Dictionary: Flirting

IOW; FEMALE PRIVILEGE.

You are still mixing them up. I agree with a lot of things you've said about conditioning, though you blamed it on Hollywood when it has been going on much longer than that.

At the same time you said someone wouldn't say boo if the harasser was good looking and then you double down with your gif. This simply is not true. Harassment is always harassment and unwelcome no matter who is doing it.

Well, there you go.

Now you know the reason for the OP.


Men on Wall Street need to avoid women at all costs b/c they believe there is nuance. You sit there an tell us there is some, but got me what it is.



I seriously doubt there has ever been a woman that has been sexually harassed by a guy she has been attracted too and really wants, that has said, "listen, I am attracted to you, and like your overtures, but your attempts at flirting I find to be sexual harassment, and if they don't end, I will have to report you. I would prefer you just ask me out after work."


Sorry, I'm just not buying it.

I'd be surprised if a woman, or a man, would feel sexually harassed by someone they were attracted to that was flirting with them. Again, you don't seem to grasp the difference between harassment and flirtation.

Again, you don't seem to understand, you have female privilege, you live in your own little world, and don't grasp that it is a matter of perspective. It depends on POV. There is no difference.

Ravi, I like you, I love your contributions to the board, but I also understand, you are not the sharpest knife in the drawer, so I am going to be patient with you. I was just going to let this go, and walk away. But, in the interest of creating a constructive dialog for everyone, let us bring out a CONCRETE EXAMPLE for other lower intellects, shall we?


When I was young, in school, I had always been brilliant, however, my social, or emotional IQ was always dismal. I had a terrible time meeting and interacting with woman. It wasn't until I left my first University and went to work in a resort town, the type you saw in the movie, "Dirty Dancing" and met one of the locals, became fast friends with him, a real player, who taught me the fine art of seduction, that I learned how to flirt.

SO it was that I learned the "making eyes" game. The most basic of flirting game, where you check someone out, but don't get caught checking her out. AND, if you do, you have the balls to smile (nicely) and say "hi." Then, you don't look at them again, or, alternatively, you try to catch them checking you out, in which case, as the man, it is YOUR duty, to go introduce yourself.

IT is a sophisticated dance.

All this I never knew. It is probably something I should have learned in junior high, but didn't pick up till my early twenties.

Now, I relate this, because, there are actually A LOT of men that just don't get how this most basic of flirting game is played.


Did you know, that STARING at a woman, if the woman does not like you, and you do not do it right, IS CONSIDERED SEXUAL HARASSMENT?

Things discussed that are Sexual Harassment;

Is It Sexual Harassment to Stare at Another Employee for More Than 5 Seconds?
Is It Sexual Harassment to Stare at Another Employee for More Than 5 Seconds?
"Among the things discussed were avoiding "lingering hugs," flirting and not repeatedly asking for a colleague’s phone number when turned down for it the first time. Oh, don’t stare at someone for more than five seconds."
<snip>

And the best part of the article, basically supports the premise of this thread.

". . . This is not difficult, guys. In fact, allow me to save everyone some time and corporations a boatload of training dollars. Here's all the sexual harassment training you need: keep your mouth shut.

Don't comment. Don't compliment. Don't offer your opinions on how someone looks. Don't do anything in the office or behave in any way towards a female that, if some guy were behaving the same way towards your daughter, you would be inclined to punch him in the face. Just shut up and do your work. When you talk, talk about work. You want to be inappropriate? Don't. But if you feel the need, then do it on your own time and not in my office.. . "

So your premise is that there is a difference between flirting and harassment. However you are WRONG. I maintain it is only the girl who decides.

LOOKING at a girl in both cases is the same. In one case it could be flirting, in the other case it is harassment. I just depends on how she feels about the gaze of the guy that is looking at her.

"but I also understand, you are not the sharpest knife in the drawer, so I am going to be patient with you"

Oh My Fucking God. Did you really post that?

The article you posted by some hysterical loser that is simply making things up is almost as funny.

Not even a knife, that would be a compliment. Maybe a rolling pin.