Bad News for Gold Holders

[thereisnospoon]

I've read that it costs about $1,200/ounce to mine and process gold. Izzat right?

Here is a link to a relatively easy to follow illustration.
The Cost Of Mining An Ounce Of Gold - Business Insider

 

[thereisnospoon]

Ask Ron Paul.

Dude loaded up his investment portfolio with as much gold, gold mining stocks as he could while pushing for a return to the gold standard and predicting economic collapse and hyperinflation around the corner. Now look at him:

Ron Paul Is Personally Losing A Fortune Because Of Gold Tanking - Business Insider

Newmont Mining Company: –37.29%
Goldcorp Holdings: –34.64%
Barrick Gold: –48.17%
Agnico Eagle Mines : –35.78%
Allied Nevada Gold Corp: –68.48%
Alumina Common: +6.32%
Anglo Gold Ashanti Ltd. –44.13%
BrigusGold Corp. Com MPV: –39.18%
Claude Resources Inc: –56.39%
Coeur D'Alene Mines Corp: –47.21%
Hecla Mining Co: –47.74%
El Dorado Gold Corp: Not Listed
IAM Gold Corp: –65.40%
Kinross: – 44.11%
Lexam Explorations Inc: – 57.57%
Mag Silver Corp: –-40.50%
Metalline Mining Co: Not Listed
Pan American Silver: –35.97%
Silver Wheaton Corp: –37.50%
Virginia Mines Inc: —16.48%
Vista Gold Corp. –53.9%
Viterra Inc +0.81%
Wesdome Gold Mines Ltd: –43.29%

At time of article he had lost over 40% in just six months. Quite the economics wizard.

And how much has he earned since he first started buying gold?

From the illustration above it is impossible to determine being the fact that those are stock prices in mining companies.

 

[Toro]

Gold isn't an inflation hedge. Or at least it hasn't been for 30+ years.

I think it's going below $1000.

In times of political or economic uncertainty, traders flock to precious metals.
Right now, the US Dollar is trading higher. So what?
No one is losing a dime.
Gold traders have gone from "buy" calls to "puts"...Meaning, they are betting where the bottom of the market will be. As the price of gold falls, they keep making money.

I don't know if gold is bottoming here. It may be.

However, gold has fallen by a third from its high more than two years ago and silver fell by 60%. A 60% decline is not a correction.

This has happened while the Fed has ramped up QE, the ECB said they'd "do anything" to preserve the system, Abe saying he was going to tank the yen, Europe has been on the precipice, the global economy has slowed, and the US government doing its best impression of a third world country with all its shutdowns. In the meantime, stocks have hit all-time highs.

So I am highly skeptical.

Gold bugs treat gold as a religion or political ideology. They are True Believers. And True Believers NEVER see the end of their bull market. I think the True Believer Gold Bugs have missed the top, as expected, and will continue to lose a lot of money from here.

But maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Toro]

Panic because gold hit a three month low? Don't look for a job in the commodities industry.

Down from $1664.00 in 2012.

Gold peaked at $1921 on (IIRC) April 10 2011.

Silver peaked at $49.74.

 

[SteadyMercury]

Moron...A good investor does not sell their holdings on the way down.

Moron.. nobody is advocating he sell, I'm just laughing at his shitty poorly diversified portfolio.

Unbeknownst to you, this portfolio will end up worth twice as much as before these stocks began to fall.

When? Anyone fool can sit here claiming a poorly performing portfolio will someday be higher, bottom line Ron Paul's holding got crushed and nobody wants to be in that position.

I would be telling my broker that once the price hits what he believes is the bottom, start buying.

I would have already fired him for losing 40% in six months.

 

[boedicca]

Why the Reactionary Liberals diss gold: a gold standard exposes there enslavement of productive people to Big Government Cronyism.

The bottom line is that, in terms of gold, wages have fallen by about 87 percent. To get a stronger sense of what that means, consider that back in 1965, the minimum wage was 71 ounces of gold per year. In 2011, the senior engineer earned the equivalent of 63 ounces in gold. So, measured in gold, we see that senior engineers now earn less than what unskilled laborers earned back in 1965.

That’s right: today’s highly skilled professional is making less in real, comparative terms than yesterday’s unskilled worker.


Measured In Gold, The Story Of American Wages Is An Ugly One - Forbes

 

[Toro]

Why the Reactionary Liberals diss gold: a gold standard exposes there enslavement of productive people to Big Government Cronyism.

The bottom line is that, in terms of gold, wages have fallen by about 87 percent. To get a stronger sense of what that means, consider that back in 1965, the minimum wage was 71 ounces of gold per year. In 2011, the senior engineer earned the equivalent of 63 ounces in gold. So, measured in gold, we see that senior engineers now earn less than what unskilled laborers earned back in 1965.

That’s right: today’s highly skilled professional is making less in real, comparative terms than yesterday’s unskilled worker.


Measured In Gold, The Story Of American Wages Is An Ugly One - Forbes

In all due respect, that's an incorrect premise.

If we use that standard, then everyone has received a huge raise of 33% over the past 2 years. Does everyone feel richer?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Ask Ron Paul.

Dude loaded up his investment portfolio with as much gold, gold mining stocks as he could while pushing for a return to the gold standard and predicting economic collapse and hyperinflation around the corner. Now look at him:

Ron Paul Is Personally Losing A Fortune Because Of Gold Tanking - Business Insider

At time of article he had lost over 40% in just six months. Quite the economics wizard.

And how much has he earned since he first started buying gold?

From the illustration above it is impossible to determine being the fact that those are stock prices in mining companies.

So look at the price of gold from when he started buying it to what it is today and tell us how much he's lost.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Moron...A good investor does not sell their holdings on the way down.

Moron.. nobody is advocating he sell, I'm just laughing at his shitty poorly diversified portfolio.

Unbeknownst to you, this portfolio will end up worth twice as much as before these stocks began to fall.

When? Anyone fool can sit here claiming a poorly performing portfolio will someday be higher, bottom line Ron Paul's holding got crushed and nobody wants to be in that position.

I would be telling my broker that once the price hits what he believes is the bottom, start buying.

I would have already fired him for losing 40% in six months.

Your lack of understanding of these matters should preclude you from posting about them.
Instead, you choose to expose your ignorance by applying fingers to keyboard.
Please stop.

 

[thereisnospoon]

And how much has he earned since he first started buying gold?

From the illustration above it is impossible to determine being the fact that those are stock prices in mining companies.

So look at the price of gold from when he started buying it to what it is today and tell us how much he's lost.

What difference in the mining stocks does the price of gold make?
This is that equivalent to oil stocks. Just because the commodity price of crude oil is roughly double what it was 4 years ago did not translate to proportionately higher oil company stock prices..
Commodities and securities markets are mutually exclusive of one another.

 

[SteadyMercury]

Your lack of understanding of these matters should preclude you from posting about them.
Instead, you choose to expose your ignorance by applying fingers to keyboard.
Please stop.

Translation = you have nothing to hide your own stupidity.

You are in here wagging your finger at those who say he should sell low, when nobody in the the thread has claimed that. Is there anyone more shallow than people like you who argue against arguments they invent? Not many.

Bottom line = Ron Paul made poor investment choices. You roll in celebrating his shit by saying someday it will rebound, but that doesn't change the fact that losing 40% is shit. So I ask again, when will he recover? When will this portfolio that has lost so much reclaim its glory mr. investment wizard?

 

[Snouter]

Gold is fool's gold. Preppers were relevant before the Y2K hoax, but again? Come one. Fool me twice fuck you. There is never going to be a time when gold is used for transactions. Lead is much more useful in idiotic "end time" scenarios.

 

[Camp]

Gold is fool's gold. Preppers were relevant before the Y2K hoax, but again? Come one. Fool me twice fuck you. There is never going to be a time when gold is used for transactions. Lead is much more useful in idiotic "end time" scenarios.

Guns have always treated me fairly well. You have to have a good eye, but that is what guns shows are for.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

From the illustration above it is impossible to determine being the fact that those are stock prices in mining companies.

So look at the price of gold from when he started buying it to what it is today and tell us how much he's lost.

What difference in the mining stocks does the price of gold make?
This is that equivalent to oil stocks. Just because the commodity price of crude oil is roughly double what it was 4 years ago did not translate to proportionately higher oil company stock prices..
Commodities and securities markets are mutually exclusive of one another.

The claim that Ron Paul's investments are bad wasn't based only on mining stocks, however, but also on actual gold.

 

[editec]

If hyperinflation hits then anything of REAL value (that people actually NEED, of course) will increase in value.

Gold will simply be one more thing that has some kind of intrinsic value.

I still think if one is holding gold as a form of specie during a period of hyperinflation, then SILVER JUNK COINAGE is the way to go. (unless you're very VERY wealthy, of course)

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Gold prices are manipulated through ETFs. The price drops wont last.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Your lack of understanding of these matters should preclude you from posting about them.
Instead, you choose to expose your ignorance by applying fingers to keyboard.
Please stop.

Translation = you have nothing to hide your own stupidity.

You are in here wagging your finger at those who say he should sell low, when nobody in the the thread has claimed that. Is there anyone more shallow than people like you who argue against arguments they invent? Not many.

Bottom line = Ron Paul made poor investment choices. You roll in celebrating his shit by saying someday it will rebound, but that doesn't change the fact that losing 40% is shit. So I ask again, when will he recover? When will this portfolio that has lost so much reclaim its glory mr. investment wizard?

No. You are complaining that Paul made bad investment because the stock price of the mining stocks he owns has fallen.
This has ZERO to do with the commodities exchange value of gold.
I have investments. I have an index fund tied to the S&P 500. In 2009 the index was around 900. It's around 1600 now.
All of the stocks in the portfolio of my wife's 401k were down back then. The values have recovered and those are actually ahead of where they were before the drop.
Where's the issue here?
Economic cycles dictate what goes up will eventually come down then rebound.
Over the last 10 years and any 10 year period show a net ROI of 12% in the stock markets.
You've no clue. Stop posting about this.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Your lack of understanding of these matters should preclude you from posting about them.
Instead, you choose to expose your ignorance by applying fingers to keyboard.
Please stop.

Translation = you have nothing to hide your own stupidity.

You are in here wagging your finger at those who say he should sell low, when nobody in the the thread has claimed that. Is there anyone more shallow than people like you who argue against arguments they invent? Not many.

Bottom line = Ron Paul made poor investment choices. You roll in celebrating his shit by saying someday it will rebound, but that doesn't change the fact that losing 40% is shit. So I ask again, when will he recover? When will this portfolio that has lost so much reclaim its glory mr. investment wizard?

Oh..Don't go making the mistake of thinking this is personal.
If you want a battle of insults, prepare to lose and lose BIG.
This is a discussion. Not a kindergarten sand box spat.

 

[thereisnospoon]

And how much has he earned since he first started buying gold?

From the illustration above it is impossible to determine being the fact that those are stock prices in mining companies.

So look at the price of gold from when he started buying it to what it is today and tell us how much he's lost.

You're not making any sense. The list shows prices of mining company stock. Not futures prices for gold.

 

[SteadyMercury]

No. You are complaining that Paul made bad investment because the stock price of the mining stocks he owns has fallen.
This has ZERO to do with the commodities exchange value of gold.

Wow you really believe the value of what they are pulling out of the ground has zero impact on their profitability and thus stock values? It isn't an exact correlation (mainly because they lock in future prices) but they are certainly related.

I have investments. I have an index fund tied to the S&P 500. In 2009 the index was around 900. It's around 1600 now.
All of the stocks in the portfolio of my wife's 401k were down back then. The values have recovered and those are actually ahead of where they were before the drop.
Where's the issue here?

I'm aware of the recovery of the stock market since 2009, thanks.

I'm honestly baffled at what point you're trying to make here. From what I can tell you seem to believe the fact that his stocks may recover someday means a 40% drop in six months isn't so bad. That isn't the case, he had a shitty poorly diversified portfolio that took a dump regardless of speculation on future economic cycles.

Over the last 10 years and any 10 year period show a net ROI of 12% in the stock markets.
You've no clue. Stop posting about this.

Really? Any 10 year period shows a net ROI of 12?

Like say 2000-2009?
1966-1975?
1929-1938?
1906-1915?

Kinda ironic the whole "you haven't a clue" thing in there isn't it?