Battle Over New Oil Train Standards Pits Safety Against Cost

[Nosmo King]

It's NPR. Another opportunity for left wing anti-fossil-fuel propaganda.

riiight. Because shooting the messenger is the most responsible way to solve problems. Do you expect us to buy that bit of sophistry?

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

It's NPR. Another opportunity for left wing anti-fossil-fuel propaganda.

riiight. Because shooting the messenger is the most responsible way to solve problems. Do you expect us to buy that bit of sophistry?

Of course not. You're the dupes on whom the dems use NPR.

 

[Nosmo King]

It's NPR. Another opportunity for left wing anti-fossil-fuel propaganda.

riiight. Because shooting the messenger is the most responsible way to solve problems. Do you expect us to buy that bit of sophistry?

Of course not. You're the dupes on whom the dems use NPR.

I don't understand. Are you asserting that a report from NPR is fraudulent? Are you saying that there is no hazard from transporting crude by rail? If the report had aired on Fox, would it be credible in your eyes? Does NPR use terms you cannot understand? Is the information fed to you by oil companies more credible than the information from safety advocates?

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

It's NPR. Another opportunity for left wing anti-fossil-fuel propaganda.

riiight. Because shooting the messenger is the most responsible way to solve problems. Do you expect us to buy that bit of sophistry?

Of course not. You're the dupes on whom the dems use NPR.

I don't understand. Are you asserting that a report from NPR is fraudulent? Are you saying that there is no hazard from transporting crude by rail? If the report had aired on Fox, would it be credible in your eyes? Does NPR use terms you cannot understand? Is the information fed to you by oil companies more credible than the information from safety advocates?

It's about priority. Lots of hazardous materials are shipped by rail everyday but the oil issue makes for a strategic headline.

 

[Nosmo King]

These folks no doubt see it as a priority even if you don't:Update ND town evacuated after oil train explosion bakken.com
And these folks:Another Oil Bomb Train Explodes Third in Last Three Weeks
Or all of these people:Oil Train Explosions A Timeline in Pictures Sightline Daily


See what happens should you pay attention to the news?

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

These folks no doubt see it as a priority even if you don't:Update ND town evacuated after oil train explosion bakken.com
And these folks:Another Oil Bomb Train Explodes Third in Last Three Weeks
Or all of these people:Oil Train Explosions A Timeline in Pictures Sightline Daily


See what happens should you pay attention to the news?

Now go do a search on train derailments that involve issues other than oil.

 

[Nosmo King]

These folks no doubt see it as a priority even if you don't:Update ND town evacuated after oil train explosion bakken.com
And these folks:Another Oil Bomb Train Explodes Third in Last Three Weeks
Or all of these people:Oil Train Explosions A Timeline in Pictures Sightline Daily


See what happens should you pay attention to the news?

Now go do a search on train derailments that involve issues other than oil.

You realize that domestic oil production is way up. Right? Drill baby, drill. Fracking and all the hazards that accompany it (I live on the Marcellus Shale). More and more trains, let's call them bombs, are rolling through our communities and the hazards from oil companies ducking their responsibility makes us all more vulnerable.

Is it enough that we get earthquakes from injection wells, contamination of ground water sources and increased air pollution from well site that now we have to endure exploding trains rolling through town?

 

[pwjohn]

It's NPR. Another opportunity for left wing anti-fossil-fuel propaganda.

So it would seem, depending on your point of view.

 

[pwjohn]

These folks no doubt see it as a priority even if you don't:Update ND town evacuated after oil train explosion bakken.com
And these folks:Another Oil Bomb Train Explodes Third in Last Three Weeks
Or all of these people:Oil Train Explosions A Timeline in Pictures Sightline Daily


See what happens should you pay attention to the news?

Now go do a search on train derailments that involve issues other than oil.

You realize that domestic oil production is way up. Right? Drill baby, drill. Fracking and all the hazards that accompany it (I live on the Marcellus Shale). More and more trains, let's call them bombs, are rolling through our communities and the hazards from oil companies ducking their responsibility makes us all more vulnerable.

Is it enough that we get earthquakes from injection wells, contamination of ground water sources and increased air pollution from well site that now we have to endure exploding trains rolling through town?

Yeah, one more thing, and it's a doozie.

 

[pwjohn]

The oil extracted, particularly in North Dakota, has a very high level of volatile gasses, namely butane methane and propane. These gases are supposed to be 'conditioned' out of the crude at the well head. Shipping crude by rail where such gasses are essentially removed makes that crude less susceptible to explosion should a train wreck occur.

The oil producers are playing Russian roulette with the lives and property of the American citizens living near rail lines.

In this case, the cost of conditioning the crude prior to shipment is not an excessive burden when weighed against the damage wrought by a crude oil tank car derailing.

The oil producers were also told to reduce flaring, and if the gases being pulled out during conditioning aren't sufficient to be recoverable, they have to be flared. The regulators need to make up their mind which one is more important.

Conditioning and flaring although similiar are two different things. Flaring takes place during the extraction process while conditioning takes place after extraction, prior to transport.

Flaring alone still leaves North Dakota crude oil at better than 18 psi, far above the current 13 something psi deemed safe for transport via rail, so the oil must be conditioned after extraction to the 13 something psi deemed safe for transport via rail.

The question is what to do with the conditioning waste if it isn't in sufficient quantities for recovery. The only viable option is to burn the conditioning spoils. I would think the regulators would consider both "flaring".

For the time being you're correct. Because everything is brand new up there, big oil is still building the infrastructure necessary to capture & bring to market the gases lost to flaring and conditioning. That will happen because there's value in what's being lost as a necessity at present.

Are the wellheads close enough to each other to make it viable at the point of extraction? (FYI I have a degree in ChemE).

It's still up to the regulators to decide which they find more important in the short term.

Keep in mind that big oil is more than capable of pushing regulators around like shopping carts in a grocery store when they feel like it's necessary. Most times they don't, so far as I know.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

These folks no doubt see it as a priority even if you don't:Update ND town evacuated after oil train explosion bakken.com
And these folks:Another Oil Bomb Train Explodes Third in Last Three Weeks
Or all of these people:Oil Train Explosions A Timeline in Pictures Sightline Daily


See what happens should you pay attention to the news?

Now go do a search on train derailments that involve issues other than oil.

You realize that domestic oil production is way up. Right? Drill baby, drill. Fracking and all the hazards that accompany it (I live on the Marcellus Shale). More and more trains, let's call them bombs, are rolling through our communities and the hazards from oil companies ducking their responsibility makes us all more vulnerable.

Is it enough that we get earthquakes from injection wells, contamination of ground water sources and increased air pollution from well site that now we have to endure exploding trains rolling through town?

If your hack president didn't reimpose the offshore drilling ban your sensationalized fear of fracking would be less necessary.

 

[Andylusion]

These folks no doubt see it as a priority even if you don't:Update ND town evacuated after oil train explosion bakken.com
And these folks:Another Oil Bomb Train Explodes Third in Last Three Weeks
Or all of these people:Oil Train Explosions A Timeline in Pictures Sightline Daily


See what happens should you pay attention to the news?

Now go do a search on train derailments that involve issues other than oil.

You realize that domestic oil production is way up. Right? Drill baby, drill. Fracking and all the hazards that accompany it (I live on the Marcellus Shale). More and more trains, let's call them bombs, are rolling through our communities and the hazards from oil companies ducking their responsibility makes us all more vulnerable.

Is it enough that we get earthquakes from injection wells, contamination of ground water sources and increased air pollution from well site that now we have to endure exploding trains rolling through town?

And how exactly do you propose they make it impossible for a train full of oil to burn?

(yeah all the hazards. How many have died from fracking?)

How do you propose we move the oil from point A to point B, without a pipeline, and without trains?

 

[Nosmo King]

These folks no doubt see it as a priority even if you don't:Update ND town evacuated after oil train explosion bakken.com
And these folks:Another Oil Bomb Train Explodes Third in Last Three Weeks
Or all of these people:Oil Train Explosions A Timeline in Pictures Sightline Daily


See what happens should you pay attention to the news?

Now go do a search on train derailments that involve issues other than oil.

You realize that domestic oil production is way up. Right? Drill baby, drill. Fracking and all the hazards that accompany it (I live on the Marcellus Shale). More and more trains, let's call them bombs, are rolling through our communities and the hazards from oil companies ducking their responsibility makes us all more vulnerable.

Is it enough that we get earthquakes from injection wells, contamination of ground water sources and increased air pollution from well site that now we have to endure exploding trains rolling through town?

And how exactly do you propose they make it impossible for a train full of oil to burn?

(yeah all the hazards. How many have died from fracking?)

How do you propose we move the oil from point A to point B, without a pipeline, and without trains?

Had you been reading this thread you would realize that it's the volatile gasses contained within the crude that makes it so explosive. Conditioning the crude to remove the gas helps reduce the chance of explosion.

 

[pwjohn]

True enough

 

[Andylusion]

These folks no doubt see it as a priority even if you don't:Update ND town evacuated after oil train explosion bakken.com
And these folks:Another Oil Bomb Train Explodes Third in Last Three Weeks
Or all of these people:Oil Train Explosions A Timeline in Pictures Sightline Daily


See what happens should you pay attention to the news?

Now go do a search on train derailments that involve issues other than oil.

You realize that domestic oil production is way up. Right? Drill baby, drill. Fracking and all the hazards that accompany it (I live on the Marcellus Shale). More and more trains, let's call them bombs, are rolling through our communities and the hazards from oil companies ducking their responsibility makes us all more vulnerable.

Is it enough that we get earthquakes from injection wells, contamination of ground water sources and increased air pollution from well site that now we have to endure exploding trains rolling through town?

And how exactly do you propose they make it impossible for a train full of oil to burn?

(yeah all the hazards. How many have died from fracking?)

How do you propose we move the oil from point A to point B, without a pipeline, and without trains?

Had you been reading this thread you would realize that it's the volatile gasses contained within the crude that makes it so explosive. Conditioning the crude to remove the gas helps reduce the chance of explosion.

Ok, that makes sense. I can buy that.

The only thing that I would point out is this.

The subtle implication of the title of this thread, is that somehow if we pass these requirements, that the oil company is going to pay for it.

The oil company is not going to pay for this. That's a myth.

The customers are going to pay for it. We.... the public... we're the ones that are going to pay for it.

No company on the face of this planet, has a single penny, that isn't collected from their customers.

So who is going to pay for the cost of doing this process to the oil? YOU. Just understand that. Now if you are good with it..... great.

But don't buy into this mythology that "we will pass safety regulations, and the company is going to pay for it." They are not. YOU are.

My personal belief is that we should simply force companies to pay for anything they damage, and leave it to them to solve this problem, without government regulation. Regulations tend to make things horribly expensive, while enriching the rich, at the cost of the poor.