Betsy DeVos Gets Stopped From Entering DC Public School by Protesters

[2aguy]

Most people who suck at their jobs can be fired. Teachers, thanks to unions, really can't. So tax payer's are forced to continue to pay in, yet not get much return on the 'investment.' Not saying all teachers are bad, but a decent number of them are. As a parent you don't get to shop for teachers, or schools; you're stuck with whatever happens to come up. Even if you /really/ dislike a teacher, you've got almost no redress if there doesn't happen to be room in another class.

I had to spend half a year being taught by a teacher that publicly accused me of telling a friend to commit suicide. I had given him a mix tape that included the song Suicide Solution by Ozzy. The teacher took it as an encouragement (the song is actually the opposite.) The teachers comment was not only in the news paper but on TV. The fucked up part, that teacher became the principle of the school three years later. Thank's teachers union \o/

I had a nasty, nasty bulldyke of a gym teacher for three years who made life misery for me and a number of other girls who weren't her favorites. She was a miserable bitch but I didn't turn against the teaching profession because of it. You ever meet someone nasty and unfair at work? In your local PTA or church group? Some people are like that; they can pop up in a school, as well.
The sad thing is, a lot of teachers agree that the tenure laws allow burnt out teachers to stay too long. The reason for the law, though, isn't to protect lousy teachers. It goes straight back to the salary issue. School boards looking at a tight budget and a loudly protesting group of tax payers would fire any teacher about to go up in the pay scale. Whether someone is a good teacher or not can be very subjective and if you look closely enough with a dark enough pair of glasses, you will find reasons whether they exist or not. Some schools here are famous for hiring new teachers for two years and then when they would receive tenure and get a pay raise, the school doesn't renew and hires some other brand new "cheap" teachers.
I agree with you that firing an incompetent teacher should not be next to impossible. Just keep in mind that "incompetent" can be largely in the mind of the beholder, or a personality issue, as it was with you.

And that is where vouchers come in....under the current system.....bad teachers get paid no matter how bad....and without a block, boards would fire good teachers because they earn a lot...that is the problem with a socialist monopoly on education.....

With vouchers.....schools have an incentive to pay good teachers and keep them...because they want to please the customers.....the parents who choose where to use the voucher...and they have an incentive to get rid of the bad teachers....again, the parents who choose the school........

That is the magic of competition and why vouchers are so important.....we use vouchers for everything we do...it is called money......and if a business wants our money, they have to make us happy....when did the government have to make you happy?

If you don't think schools answer to their communities, their parents and their school board, you are sadly mistaken. It sounds as if "school choice" means the government will be flooding money into private schools that are apparently not beholden to tax payers or parents, except by the traffic through their doors. Maybe that will work as you describe. I don't know. But it raises a lot of questions, starting with where is all this money coming from? Is it just being taken from the public schools that are already gasping for funding in poorer neighborhoods with low tax bases?

What is it about freedom you guys don't get.......

Right now...if your kid is having a problem with a teacher...you have to fight the administration and then the school board to get the problem fixed....and if they won't help you....you have to move to another school district or pay out of your own pocket to send them to a good school...after your property taxes go to support the hell hole school in your neighborhood....

And with vouchers...if the school sucks...you pull your kid...and your voucher, and send them to another school......and guess what......schools will have to actually satisfy the customer by educating children....if they don't they don't get paid....

Each kid already gets a certain amount of money for school...you simply give them that amount in a voucher, to be used anywhere they want....just like the G.I. Bill.....and all the lefties love that program.....

Those poor public schools...are not going to improve no matter how much money you give them...because they don't have to...we have high schools in Chicago...built to hold 3,000 students...who only have 300 kids in them, with most of the building sealed off...because those black Chicagoans who could leave....left......

Vouchers will bring back those bad schools, they will allow better people to run them.....

Why is it you can sit in your home, with every modern convenience, created by competition, and freedom of choice, making them better and less expensive and more accessible to every economic level....yet you don't think the same thing will work when schools have to make their customers happy.......?

 

[2aguy]

Murkowski did the same, said she wasn't voting Trump - Alaskan's dogged the hell out of her until she caved and voted for him (we do that often with her.)

Go look at your senator's NTA donations, I bet there's a big chunk.

Snow and Murkowski are minoins of the Teachers unions....they will fight any real change that will benefit kids...

 

[2aguy]

Average pay in the state is $50k. Teachers make $70k. Police make $47k. Doctors make $100k. CEO's make $100k.

I understand defending your profession, but you are mistaken when it comes to my local. We give half a trillion dollars to the school district every year - They just told us they have a $15M budget gap right now, despite us giving them an extra $7M in the annual budget. They also over spent last years budget by $8M.

Our state is closing local schools with small numbers of students to reduce overhead and is consolidating districts to eliminate administrative overhead. It's not easy considering how spread out things are--we already have kids traveling 30 miles to school, one way. I'm not necessarily defending my profession, not if it's busily putting tax payers over a barrel and insisting on things the community can't afford. But like I said, that hasn't been my experience.

Vouchers would fix that.

 

[2aguy]

GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. -- At one of America's fastest-growing school systems, 44% of the teachers come from Bible colleges. Mothers pray in the school buildings. Students learn about Adam and Eve in science class, and are asked not to wear costumes to school on Halloween, in deference to parents who believe the holiday glorifies the devil.

Yet the National Heritage Academies aren't Christian private schools. Instead, they are a chain of state-funded charter schools offering back-to-basics education with a religious tinge -- free of charge.

Based in this Bible Belt stronghold, the for-profit National Heritage has burgeoned from one school with 174 students in 1995 to 22 schools with 8,600 students in two states today -- with a marketing campaign seemingly aimed at evangelical parents.

"We're like the auto industry in Detroit when the Japanese came in," says Mark Muller, chairman of the Grand Rapids Christian schools, where enrollment has fallen nearly 10% in six years. This drop, which he attributes partly to National Heritage, has prompted layoffs and talk of consolidation with a Christian-school group in another town.

SNIP

Charter schools, which operate independently of local school districts, were intended to create a choice for parents discontented with traditional public schools. Under Michigan law, charter schools get almost as much per capita funding as area public schools -- nearly $6,000 in National Heritage's case.

It didn't occur to many people that tuition-burdened parents at religious schools would also welcome an alternative, particularly one featuring small classes, strict discipline and moral education. But today, charters are taking market share from fundamentalist schools, their predecessors as the hottest phenomenon in American education. And charters' smudging of the separation of church and state has stirred up an unlikely combination of opponents: private religious competitors and civil-liberties advocates.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB937349673185553337What galls the Christian schools' faithful is that National Heritage founder and chairman J.C. Huizenga is one of their own.

There is no separation of church and state issue...otherwise G.I. bill recipients couldn't use their federal funds to go to Notre Dame...now could they.......

 

[aris2chat]

Devos choosing to visit a public school is a slap in the face to the staff and students who work and study there.

she can walk into any school she wants anytime she wants

No lots of private schools, boarding schools, and military schools would require special permission and advance notice.

Her choosing to visit a public school is a slap in the face to the people there. Imagine posing for a photo op with people who's jobs you want to eliminate in a building you want to shutter... What a sick woman.

she is the Secretary of Education

 

[BlackFlag]

Devos choosing to visit a public school is a slap in the face to the staff and students who work and study there.

she can walk into any school she wants anytime she wants

No lots of private schools, boarding schools, and military schools would require special permission and advance notice.

Her choosing to visit a public school is a slap in the face to the people there. Imagine posing for a photo op with people who's jobs you want to eliminate in a building you want to shutter... What a sick woman.

she is the Secretary of Education

Do you have a point? Are you just blurting out random facts now?

 

[EverCurious]

Murkowski did the same, said she wasn't voting Trump - Alaskan's dogged the hell out of her until she caved and voted for him (we do that often with her.)

Go look at your senator's NTA donations, I bet there's a big chunk.

Snow and Murkowski are minoins of the Teachers unions....they will fight any real change that will benefit kids...

I agree - and to clarify - NTA, National Teachers Association, is their union.

Not sure they fight 'against' kids, but they certainly fight against anything that takes power from the union - which quite often results in less than stellar choices for kidos when you get down to the local level unions that are often too big for their own britches and/or corrupt and dysfunctional.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Betsy Devis wants to destroy public education. She should have known she would not be welcome.

"Public education" my ASS!
80% of high school (cough) graduates who were 'streamed' through high school (if these students actually had to pass standard tests there would be classrooms full of 25 year olds) don't know if a duck is a bird!
100% the fault of the stranglehold the teacher's unions have had on the education system.
Why didn't BONOBO do anything about the epidemic of failing schools or fuck all about negro on negro inner city violence?
ONE FUCKING WORD: VOTES!!!!!!!!!!!!
Along comes President Trump who wants actually do something to help and the fucking LIB teacher's unions and the fucking LIB city administrators of major cities are screaming their heads off. WHY!
President Trump wants to stop the tsunami of illegal hard drugs entering the country from Mexico which are destroying entire US towns. What is the response from LIBs? They are screaming their heads off. WHY!

Exactly what is that stranglehold? Are you willing to step up to the plate and take a fastball to the chin? Let's here your diatribe on how the educational systems trouble is the union's fault.

I am game. How about you?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Most people who suck at their jobs can be fired. Teachers, thanks to unions, really can't. So tax payer's are forced to continue to pay in, yet not get much return on the 'investment.' Not saying all teachers are bad, but a decent number of them are. As a parent you don't get to shop for teachers, or schools; you're stuck with whatever happens to come up. Even if you /really/ dislike a teacher, you've got almost no redress if there doesn't happen to be room in another class.

I had to spend half a year being taught by a teacher that publicly accused me of telling a friend to commit suicide. I had given him a mix tape that included the song Suicide Solution by Ozzy. The teacher took it as an encouragement (the song is actually the opposite.) The teachers comment was not only in the news paper but on TV. The fucked up part, that teacher became the principle of the school three years later. Thank's teachers union \o/

Lie.

BTW, the principal is your pal and may have principles.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I defy ANYONE to go into ANY inner city school and watch what goes on in EVERY FUCKING classroom.....or rather what doesn't go on ie ANY actual teaching!
The 'teachers' as fucking illiterate is the students.....ome worse.
Virtually NO negro student takes ANY school books home to study. What's the point? Their school books are taken from them by negro gang members.
EVERY inner city negro kid KNOWS which gang they BELONG to for LIFE by the time they are six years old!

That's funny! I taught in an inner city middle school for three years. Maybe you should go back to school and learn about sentence structure. I guess "ome worse" applies to me. What about you?

I think you are just a racist and will not waste any more time with your hypocrisy.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

OldLady I disagree, it goes back to the teachers union stopping teachers from getting fired. The union up here is massive, one of the largest in the nation, and they string us up regularly for raises, pensions, insurance, etc. We don't get a say because they'll do a "strike" and ten cities go down. They use it as a weapon, viciously. There's a reason the average teacher salary up here is creeping up on $70k/y + bens and it's not based on 'result' matrix's.

I don't particularly dislike teachers, at least not the good ones, but I do very much dislike the union.

Change your laws. Few teacher's unions nationwide do not have a no strike clause in their contracts. I have been a teacher for 20 years, in two states, and for the DoD. Pay raises and benefits are all dictated, not negotiated.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Average pay in the state is $50k. Teachers make $70k. Police make $47k. Doctors make $100k. CEO's make $100k.

I understand defending your profession, but you are mistaken when it comes to my local. We give half a trillion dollars to the school district every year - They just told us they have a $15M budget gap right now, despite us giving them an extra $7M in the annual budget. They also over spent last years budget by $8M.

Teachers make $70,000 where?

I have been a teacher for over 20 years and I barely make $52K.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Devos choosing to visit a public school is a slap in the face to the staff and students who work and study there.

Right. I think you have been inhaling too much of your user name. It's killing brain cells instead of roaches.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Devos choosing to visit a public school is a slap in the face to the staff and students who work and study there.

she can walk into any school she wants anytime she wants

No lots of private schools, boarding schools, and military schools would require special permission and advance notice.

Her choosing to visit a public school is a slap in the face to the people there. Imagine posing for a photo op with people who's jobs you want to eliminate in a building you want to shutter... What a sick woman.

You really have gone where no man has gone before.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. -- At one of America's fastest-growing school systems, 44% of the teachers come from Bible colleges. Mothers pray in the school buildings. Students learn about Adam and Eve in science class, and are asked not to wear costumes to school on Halloween, in deference to parents who believe the holiday glorifies the devil.

Yet the National Heritage Academies aren't Christian private schools. Instead, they are a chain of state-funded charter schools offering back-to-basics education with a religious tinge -- free of charge.

Based in this Bible Belt stronghold, the for-profit National Heritage has burgeoned from one school with 174 students in 1995 to 22 schools with 8,600 students in two states today -- with a marketing campaign seemingly aimed at evangelical parents.

"We're like the auto industry in Detroit when the Japanese came in," says Mark Muller, chairman of the Grand Rapids Christian schools, where enrollment has fallen nearly 10% in six years. This drop, which he attributes partly to National Heritage, has prompted layoffs and talk of consolidation with a Christian-school group in another town.

SNIP

Charter schools, which operate independently of local school districts, were intended to create a choice for parents discontented with traditional public schools. Under Michigan law, charter schools get almost as much per capita funding as area public schools -- nearly $6,000 in National Heritage's case.

It didn't occur to many people that tuition-burdened parents at religious schools would also welcome an alternative, particularly one featuring small classes, strict discipline and moral education. But today, charters are taking market share from fundamentalist schools, their predecessors as the hottest phenomenon in American education. And charters' smudging of the separation of church and state has stirred up an unlikely combination of opponents: private religious competitors and civil-liberties advocates.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB937349673185553337What galls the Christian schools' faithful is that National Heritage founder and chairman J.C. Huizenga is one of their own.

There is no separation of church and state issue...otherwise G.I. bill recipients couldn't use their federal funds to go to Notre Dame...now could they.......

You can't go to Notre Dame to study to be a priest on the GI Bill!

 

[RASTAMEN]

This shit has got to stop. You cannot have such disrespect for authority, even if you don't like them. Half of the nation hated Obama, but we did not act like this.

The nation isn't into Trump and the GOPEEEEE.

 

[RASTAMEN]

[QUOTyOUE="AvgGuyIA, post: 16544614, member: 22468"]Is it time to start shooting protestors who block government officials from performing their jobs. This is anarchy and it's time to put a stop to it. Make the punishment hurt.[/QUOTE]

You must be a Banana Republican!!!!

 

[2aguy]

Average pay in the state is $50k. Teachers make $70k. Police make $47k. Doctors make $100k. CEO's make $100k.

I understand defending your profession, but you are mistaken when it comes to my local. We give half a trillion dollars to the school district every year - They just told us they have a $15M budget gap right now, despite us giving them an extra $7M in the annual budget. They also over spent last years budget by $8M.

Teachers make $70,000 where?

I have been a teacher for over 20 years and I barely make $52K.

I know a teacher making over 100,00 grand a year...a public school teacher.........so please.....it happens...

 

[2aguy]

Average pay in the state is $50k. Teachers make $70k. Police make $47k. Doctors make $100k. CEO's make $100k.

I understand defending your profession, but you are mistaken when it comes to my local. We give half a trillion dollars to the school district every year - They just told us they have a $15M budget gap right now, despite us giving them an extra $7M in the annual budget. They also over spent last years budget by $8M.

Teachers make $70,000 where?

I have been a teacher for over 20 years and I barely make $52K.

You should go to Chicago then.......you don't have to educate the kids and you make 76,000 dollars a year on average.....not including benefits, and working 9 months with 2 weeks at Christmas, a week in the spring and at least one day a month for federal holidays and institute days..........

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/06/12/how-much-do-chicago-public-school-teachers-make/

A Chicago Public Schools spokesperson said average pay for teachers, without benefits, is $76,000.

But a Teachers Union attorney said the number provided by CPS doesn’t tell the whole story.

“When you’re looking at compensation, it’s not enough just to look at salary, because Chicago Public Schools teachers have to pay more for their insurance, and they get less of a contribution from the employer for their pension than in other cities,” CTU attorney Robert Bloch said.

Bloch said per-pupil pay is lower in Chicago than in many cities, too. He said those factors need to be taken into consideration, by both CPS and the public.

“Working conditions are part of everyone’s job, we all think about working conditions,” he said.

Block said the average salary for CTU teachers is actually lower than what CPS claims, by about $5,000. It’s a disparity neither side could explain.

By comparison, teachers in New York City earn an average of $73,751. That would be less than the average $76,000 average salary for Chicago teachers cited by CPS, but more than the $71,000 average cited by the union. Depending on which is accurate, Chicago would either be first or second in the nation in average teacher salary. However, Los Angeles teachers make $67,600. The number drops to about $54,000 in Dallas, and just over $52,000 in Miami.

 

[2aguy]

Average pay in the state is $50k. Teachers make $70k. Police make $47k. Doctors make $100k. CEO's make $100k.

I understand defending your profession, but you are mistaken when it comes to my local. We give half a trillion dollars to the school district every year - They just told us they have a $15M budget gap right now, despite us giving them an extra $7M in the annual budget. They also over spent last years budget by $8M.

Teachers make $70,000 where?

I have been a teacher for over 20 years and I barely make $52K.

Now....Tucker Carlson was discussing DeVos....and stated D.C. public school kids....only 12% of them meet the basic standards for math at grade level......12%.....

How much does the average D.C. public school teacher make?

And the public school teachers..make more than the Charter school teachers......

D.C. traditional public school teacher pay is higher than charters

Teachers in the District’s traditional public schools earn more than their counterparts at nearly every D.C. charter school, according to a Washington Post review of teacher salaries across the city, with many city teachers earning salaries that are thousands of dollars higher.

School officials say high pay is a key part of the city’s strategy for attracting talented people to teach in some of the nation’s most challenging schools. For charters, however, it creates an additional challenge. Unable to match the school system’s salaries, many charters instead rely on other factors to recruit and retain candidates, including small class sizes, professional development opportunities and strongly defined missions and cultures.

The wide variation of school environments and pay scales shows how the District has become a closely watched experiment in its use of charters and school choice, not just for parents seeking the right education for their children, but also for teachers seeking work. Charters now enroll more than 40 percent of the city’s public school students, and they are growing.


-------------


DCPS teachers can earn a maximum base pay of $106,540 plus bonuses of up to $25,000 each year, far higher than the best-paid teacher at many charters, most of which have maximum base salaries of less than $80,000.

The District’s average teacher pay of $77,512 in 2013 is the highest in the region. Montgomery County is second, at $74,855; Fairfax County is sixth, at $64,813.

D.C. public charters operate as independent school districts, not tethered to the teachers union and free to set salaries and hiring standards. Although charters receive the same per-student tax funding, they do not get some of the government resources that benefit the traditional school system. That has contributed to charters touting intangible benefits instead of high salaries.

Vouchers...would allow Charter school and other types of schools pay their teachers more...for actually educating children....